Alex987 has agreed to come in as a replacement. Let me know if he is needed.

The simple truth is that we do not know how many scum are in the list that voted for Angel.

If it is only 1/4 as you suggest, then your looking at everyone else by elimination would indeed contain 2/3 scum.

If instead it is 2/4, then the remainder would be 1/3 scum, and so forth.

I obviously do not believe 3/4 scum voted for Angel.

 

I think I see where you are going with this: If we assume 1/4 scum voted for Angel, then we have a 2/3 chance of finding the remaining scum outside that list - therefore focus on those who did NOT vote for Angel for better odds. It's tempting... but my problem with that line of reasoning is that a) we dont know it's 1/4 for certain (and with inactivity levels weve seen this game, it could easily be 2/4 - scum trying to get SOME lynch), and it still involves throwing away the only demonstrable action we've seen - the vote that lynched a townie.

 

For those on the list we can examine the rationales they gave; for myself and the others who didnt vote for Angel, there's not much else you can do to follow up with them.

 

I couldn't have said this better myself. Except, I don't know that it's obvious 3/4 aren't scum. I find it unlikely, but I don't think its that unusual. Without power roles claiming and without a whole lot of other collected evidence, as I pointed out earlier we might just be letting this stuff slide to easy. D3mon and Kaziocore pointed out who they didn't like on the first day and now both those targets are dead. Here we see them together again.

 

 

However - I find it interesting that Kaziocore is suggesting a link between d3mon and KevinH. d3mon did give KevinH more of a clean bill of health earlier. Based on the Kaziocore vs d3mon infighting earlier, I suspect the two of them are NOT on the same side; one is scum, one is not. Frankly... it may be the two of them we need to focus on now.

 

 

 

This I'm beginning to disagree with. It wasn't until today, after drawing some suspicion, that they started to squabble with each other. While I think I recall Kaziocore nodding at some suspicion earlier, I think there is also voting evidence and FOS evidence to suggest that these two had similar interests.

 

 

In fact if ever you're found to be scum d3mon,

the next possible scum would be KevinH.

 

Can you explain this relationship a little better? Is this just in your eyes or is there something more concrete to back this up? I couldn't quite catch it from your explanations. I think my biggest question, if it is evidence more than your feeling is, does it go the other way. Can we implicate D3mon if we find that KevinH is scum. However, unfortunately, this being the last day these sort of connections are a little moot. If we don't lynch the right person it's not going to matter who they were connected to because we'll loose. So, either way I don't think it should be our entire focus to think to far ahead when closure could be so close at hand.

 

Based on this, I still think there is a cop/doc in our midst somewhere.

 

KevinH, you still have not explained why you think we still have a cop/doc in our midst. I have asked that you explain this multiple times and I think it is still quite relevant. If we do have a cop, do you still suggest we follow them at this point in the game? Should we nudge them to come out?

 

I asked in my last post if we should have some discussion on this and no one acknowledged it. Do people think its not worth it at this point, that its a lost cause, simply that there isn't one with the town or that its likely enough that we go into another day and we don't want to leave them vulnerable.

KevinH, you still have not explained why you think we still have a cop/doc in our midst. I have asked that you explain this multiple times and I think it is still quite relevant. If we do have a cop, do you still suggest we follow them at this point in the game? Should we nudge them to come out?

 

I asked in my last post if we should have some discussion on this and no one acknowledged it. Do people think its not worth it at this point, that its a lost cause, simply that there isn't one with the town or that its likely enough that we go into another day and we don't want to leave them vulnerable.

 

I think there are additional townie power roles in play. Electric Mango couldn't find a matching role on the wiki so I assume it was relatively weak.

 

I think the players with the power roles should judge whether to reveal them.

 

In the case of a doc, there's really no point in revealing. Just protect whom you think most deserving of protection.

In the case of a cop, it depends what they know. If we are about to lynch a known townie, speak up. Otherwise, use discretion.

 

To answer the question directly: "Yes, we should follow the cop, if we know who he is." It's up to him to reveal himself.

Ah.. srry bout tht.. I was kinda re-reading the whole thread and didn't have anything to add at that time.

 

Now, I believe that at least 1 scum voted for Angel and that means that either me, Kaziocore, FO or KevinH is scum..

 

Kaziocore : When FO and BeeBs were attacking KevinH, he tried to join the bandwagon.

 

 

 

but as soon as it seemed that the bandwagon against KevinH was not going to work, he backed off...

 

 

Its not a "scum tell" but I find it suspicious.

 

Also, he was the second to vote for Angel (bandwagon??)

 

FO : Has somehow managed to stay under the radar.. was the third to vote for Angel (HAMMER??)...

Made a strange observation regarding Tracker (another dead townie)...

 

 

 

@FO, Is this the reason for killing Tracker? O_o

 

KevinH : His vote for Angel was mostly symbolic and I don't think that he would have done that if he was scum. IMHO, he is a townie.

 

I was simply looking for anything that could help me in trying to figure out who else was a Townie. At that point, I realy had nothing, so I was prolly reaching a bit. I'm going to read that rest of the posts and give my thoughts, just wanted to answer that 1 question.

If one of

{d3mon

Kaziocore

Fighting Okra

KevinH}

is scum,

and

{Nerau}

is proven town,

then two of

{Preston

ccabal86

BeeBs}

are scum.

 

There is certainly a probability that two of the voters to lynch Angel were scum.

(I'm not saying we have a 2/3 chance to get scum if we pick a non-lyncher)

 

I'm just saying that we shouldn't limit ourselves to considering only those who voted to lynch Angel.

 

I'm pretty sure three of you are scum. You're doing a great job concealing it.

First, I do think the chances are good that atleast 2 Mafia were in on the Vote for Angel.

 

I am starting to think d3mon and KevinH are the 2 because it seems like d3mon has kind of backed up KevinH for twice, even after Kevin randomly voted for him. Which could be an attempt to throw suspicion away from them.

 

As to who could be 3rd, I have no idea. It seems d3mon and Kaziocore are kind of going back and forth, so I don't think those 2 are on the same side.

 

 

FOS as of right now: D3mon and KevinH

Alex987 has agreed to come in as a replacement. Let me know if he is needed.

That's up to ccabal :/

 

I'll respond in more depth later to all the interesting comments I'm seeing tonight; just got home and I need to do some CTR re-setup. Keep the conversation going though, and I hope Nerau weigh in at some point on what he thinks based on posts thus far.

 

-Preston

 

Based on the Kaziocore vs d3mon infighting earlier, I suspect the two of them are NOT on the same side; one is scum, one is not. Frankly... it may be the two of them we need to focus on now.

 

 

 

 

As to who could be 3rd, I have no idea. It seems d3mon and Kaziocore are kind of going back and forth, so I don't think those 2 are on the same side.

 

 

 

I'm wondering why you both think because they are squabbling they mustn't be on the same side. I'm feeling its more like a show. They showed very similar suspect lists closer to the beginning of the game until their relationship turned sour when Kaziocore accused D3mon of too little activity. This argument that "player x is posting too little, therefore they should be lynched" has been the poison that lynched two townies, at least in large part. I really don't want to buy this going into later days. The way I see it, they had similar suspect lists and they're trying now to distance themselves. Furthermore, it isn't as though their disagreement has been over anything substantial; It's simply "no you!" back and forth.

 

 

FO : Has somehow managed to stay under the radar.. was the third to vote for Angel (HAMMER??)...

Made a strange observation regarding Tracker (another dead townie)...

 

I agree with this and mentioned it in one of my earlier posts. If we have given out a free pass this game, it's certainly been to Fighting Okra. His vote record indicates scuminess, but again, he hasn't been on the organizing side of any of that. It really does seem like he's just voted for the wrong person at the wrong time. However, his response recently when D3mon brought it up was weak at best.

 

@Fighting Okra: I'm interested in what you have to say after reading the rest of the posts. I'd be nice if we could get a little backbone from your vote, or simply just your suspicions, this time. We don't have any time left to "reach".

 

Hey there!

 

While I have more time these days, and I COULD come back into play if I wanted, doing this would be awfully suspicious of me, and could easily result in me being lynched. And since I gathered we're at LYLO, this would automatically result in a Town loss. Because of this, I'd rather not do it, and so I request for replacement again. I think it's better if someone with a clean slate comes in.

 

Mod: I request that I be replaced

 

I've done my best to stay away from gut calls this game. It's gotten us or could get us into a lot of trouble. In accord with my earlier statement, I think the inactivity argument has already dug us a pretty deep hole. However, something about this just seems off to me. It's not vote worthy or anything and it isn't based on the fact that he's leaving, it just seems like a strange way to say, "sorry guys, I'm out." It just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

I'm pretty sure three of you are scum. You're doing a great job concealing it.

 

Doesn't somebody want to thank me for the complement?

 

 

Some scum probably voted and some probably didn't. Eventually this will play out as a townie finally making a guess and placing a vote. If he's wrong, the scum will pile on for the lynch and we'll lose. If he's right, we will lynch a scum, probably lose a townie to a night-kill and face the same scenario again. We need to get lucky 3 times in a row. Hopefully there are some power roles that can "influence the luck."

 

Note that I said influence and not role-claim!

What kind of backbone would you like Beebs? I have already stated why I lynched Angel, but I will say it again. First, I thought we needed to lynch someone to move this game along. Second, I thought his retalitory vote on d3mon was reckless, and not needed, unless he was trying to get people to bandwagon with him. 3rd, he was about to go inactive for a little bit. That is why I voted for Angel, I was wrong. I really don't think I was "reaching." I had way more reasons to Vote for him than anyone else.

 

 

I have yet to see a huge sign pointing toward a single indivdual, who comes across as Mafia. Just little things, that I have mentioned, as to why I suspect some people, sorry if me just telling everyone, where I'm at and what I'm thinking about in the game isn't the right way to play.

What kind of backbone would you like Beebs? I have already stated why I lynched Angel, but I will say it again. First, I thought we needed to lynch someone to move this game along. Second, I thought his retalitory vote on d3mon was reckless, and not needed, unless he was trying to get people to bandwagon with him. 3rd, he was about to go inactive for a little bit. That is why I voted for Angel, I was wrong. I really don't think I was "reaching." I had way more reasons to Vote for him than anyone else.

 

 

I have yet to see a huge sign pointing toward a single indivdual, who comes across as Mafia. Just little things, that I have mentioned, as to why I suspect some people, sorry if me just telling everyone, where I'm at and what I'm thinking about in the game isn't the right way to play.

 

 

When I was talking about reaching I was referring to you post about Tracker. I remember reading your rationale, I guess I just don't agree that it was really solid justifications considering the outcome is all. About having more of a reason than anyone else, I don't think that any of your reasons were uniquely yours. Anyone could cite those reasons, although I do appreciate you doing so. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you were playing improperly at all. Like I said, I don't really suspect you to be mafia all that much either. When I mentioned having some backbone, I just think it's unfortunate that we've lost townies because of votes based on inactivity rather than something a little more empirical. I was just trying to check in because you said you were going to do some reading and post more of your thoughts and I thought that would be helpful since you're sort of on the chopping block, although maybe lower on the list, after yesterdays voting. Similarly, I wish Kaziocore or D3mon would post something, we haven't heard from them for a little while, but we've sure been discussing them a lot.

I guess those guys had some good posts a couple days ago, I think I just have a lot of extra time on my hands right now.

When I was talking about reaching I was referring to you post about Tracker. I remember reading your rationale, I guess I just don't agree that it was really solid justifications considering the outcome is all. About having more of a reason than anyone else, I don't think that any of your reasons were uniquely yours. Anyone could cite those reasons, although I do appreciate you doing so. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you were playing improperly at all. Like I said, I don't really suspect you to be mafia all that much either. When I mentioned having some backbone, I just think it's unfortunate that we've lost townies because of votes based on inactivity rather than something a little more empirical. I was just trying to check in because you said you were going to do some reading and post more of your thoughts and I thought that would be helpful since you're sort of on the chopping block, although maybe lower on the list, after yesterdays voting. Similarly, I wish Kaziocore or D3mon would post something, we haven't heard from them for a little while, but we've sure been discussing them a lot.

 

 

With my post about Tracker, I was reaching, just trying to find out any infromation I could on who to vote for, ofc if I would have been right, then I wouldn't have voted for him. I did go back and do some re-reading, and expressed my thoughts on what I saw. That being, d3mon has seemed to take up for KevinH twice now, the first time, right after KevinH voted for him. Which makes me think they could be working together, and the vote on d3mon by KevinH was just a way to make people think they weren't on the same side. The second time being when he said that he thinks KevinH's vote on Angel was just symbolic, which it very could have been.

 

As of right now, I don't have much to go on other than that and they both Voted for Angel, which I did as well

Just little things, that I have mentioned, as to why I suspect some people, sorry if me just telling everyone, where I'm at and what I'm thinking about in the game isn't the right way to play.

 

That's exactly the right way to play.

With my post about Tracker, I was reaching, just trying to find out any infromation I could on who to vote for, ofc if I would have been right, then I wouldn't have voted for him. I did go back and do some re-reading, and expressed my thoughts on what I saw. That being, d3mon has seemed to take up for KevinH twice now, the first time, right after KevinH voted for him. Which makes me think they could be working together, and the vote on d3mon by KevinH was just a way to make people think they weren't on the same side. The second time being when he said that he thinks KevinH's vote on Angel was just symbolic, which it very could have been.

 

As of right now, I don't have much to go on other than that and they both Voted for Angel, which I did as well

 

I have defended KevinH because I feel that people have tried to :bandwagon: against him and IMHO none of his actions indicate that he is scum...

TBH, I was also expecting that with so many new players.. he would be able to point out anyone acting out of ordinary but unfortunately I have not seen any list of suspects from him

 

My thoughts on all the living players are:

 

Kaziocore: Voted for Angel and while his actions have been very similar to mine.. he has been pretty aggresive against me (a known townie for me).. Probably Scum..

 

KevinH : Voted for Angel after the FO's hammer vote.. Is an experienced player but has not been targetted by Mafia.. Not sure, but I am leaning towards clean..

 

Preston : Has provided some great analysis.. If this was a definite indicator then he is a townie... unfortunately, he has proved that he can make long misleading posts (refer to TMCWPTI #2).. Probably town

 

ccabal : Has been pretty inactive.. Can be scum.. unfortunately, we cannot lynch based on activity anymore. He has also requested for a replacement. IMO, he should be replaced ASAP.

 

BeeBs : Looks like town to me.

 

Nerau : Very SUSPICIOUS.. LETS LYNCH HIM ... Mod confirmed townie

 

FO : Has been able to stay under everyone's radar.. Placed the hammer vote on Angel... has generally restricted his opinions to agreeing with someone... Scum

Since it's LYLO and the deadline each day is coming closer,

I would like to roleclaim that I'm a burly chef that is a one-use

vigilante.

 

Now as a vigilante, I generally choose someone to kill

if the person is inactive or not really useful. I also pick

people who posts a lot but most of them aren't really

useful or sometimes confuse more the townies.

 

=====================================================

Day One

=====================================================

 

I have a list of suspects/people I found annoying...

1) Tracker - for his lengthy roleplay posts and of course for lurking

2) CD - sudden change in strategy and suggesting two no lynches

3) Inactive People

 

Generally I would support the lynch of inactive people that

will never contribute to the town anyway and may eventually

be lynched in later days that is why when d1 ended with

no lynch, I was totally disappointed.

 

=====================================================

Night One

=====================================================

I decided it's not yet time for me to use my night action

as I felt it would be better if there are less people so the

chances of hitting the scum will increase but I was thinking

of killing an inactive or someone so we will have d2 as if

we lynched someone on d1.

 

=====================================================

Day Two

=====================================================

I was actually relieved that CD was picked by the mafia members

to night kill among the usual picks like Nerau or possibly KevinH.

Don't get me wrong but I was really suspicious of CD.

If he was mafia, we would have a terribly active scum with us right now.

 

While I was viewing reign of terror's profile thinking whether

to use my night action or not, what I found very suspicious

is that d3mon was one of the last persons

to view reign of terror's account. In a previous game I played,

a suspect was found to also view the mod's profile during

the night and it turns out that he was in fact a mafia member.

 

This alone can't be the reason for lynching someone

so I just kept this to myself. I just became more weary

or suspicious of d3mon on d2. Maybe an FOS level...

 

When KevinH randomly voted d3mon for being the

last one to post. I replied with this post. I pretended to

be more suspicious of KevinH than d3mon to see how

d3mon would react and so that if ever I chose to

kill d3mon later, I wouldn't be too much suspected.

 

Well I'm thinking what if the added bonus of killing CD was

to put suspicion on d3mon who FOS both CD and Tracker.

 

The mafia could kill CD and in the next day start to make

a case against d3mon who incidentally posts sparingly

which makes him a nice target.

 

Well I don't know...

What do you guys think?

 

But unfortunately d3mon never responded and went to an

easier post to say like just comment on CD's death.

 

BeeBs roleplayed again and posted a lengthy message. Then the

discussion went to roleplaying and I argued why we should

refrain from posting lengthy posts with most of it only roleplaying

with Tracker.

 

And then Angel was suddenly the focus of the town for generally

being inactive and voting back at d3mon without any other reason

than getting voted.

 

I still have doubts on who the mafia could be so I went with an

inactive player hoping he would be mafia.

 

Since we didn't lynch someone on d1,

d2 is like d1 with one less player.

 

=====================================================

Night Two

=====================================================

So it turns out that Angel was in fact townie

so now we have 6-3 (T-M).

 

I decided to use my nk on Tracker not on d3mon because I

believe at that time that more people are suspecting Tracker.

If Tracker is scum, good, if not we will not waste our time

on lynching Tracker. Also he was a good candidate because

he also didn't vote on d2 so we lack one day of information on

his voting patterns.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for the second time, I also saw d3mon viewing EM's profile.

Now I really think something is really suspicious about that.

 

=====================================================

Day Three

=====================================================

Now what really surprised me is that only two died during the night.

I was definitely sure that I sent EM my night action so the only

explanation I could think of is I killed Tracker and then the mafia

tried to kill Nerau (proven townie) but someone protected him or

both I and the mafia targeted the same person but I think the

former is more probable because of the flavor text.

 

Tracker still twitching from being stabbed in the back and neck with various cooking utensils.

 

Anyway the only suspect I could think of is d3mon.

Now with the two instances of seeing him view the

mod's profile (one on RoT and one on EM) and in

addition to d3mon's "inactiveness" at some parts of d1

and also on d2, his posts are not generally useful and

eventually choosing to no lynch on d1

(yes... no lynching for me gives you minus points because

I believe it does not benefit the town. Look at d2, it's just

d1 minus one person and now we have less voting information)

I have my reason for suspecting him of being a scum.

 

Now guys what are your comments?

I don't understand why visiting someone's profile is ground for suspicion.. infact, you are claiming to have done the same thing... moreover, if you check the list of visitors for EM, he also has visits from Tracker and FO... I guess, that means they are also scum..

 

[sarcasm] I like your line of reasoning [/sarcasm]

 

BTW.. I find your confession of wanting to kill CD and having killed a townie.. very unusual.. if anything, it makes me think that 2 or more scum voted for Angel... that you have realized that things are not looking great and are now making desperate and ridiculous claims.

Interesting, so to be clear, your power is a One time use, and you used it on Tracker, correct?

 

To d3mon: It is time to get desperate, if we miss lynch than the Mafia wins I believe, so I don't know why throwing it out there that you have a power role to try and prove your a townie is a bad thing.

I get that he could make this all up, but stating that you NightKilled a townie, to me, is just coming clean, admitting mistakes. I don't think a Mafia member would be brave enough to possibly put even more suspicion on himself.

 

Also, why, if you're vote was just a wild guess, did you not Unvote when you saw that people, including myself, were starting to think that Angel could actually be Mafia? Was it becasue you agreed with our logic on voting for him and thought we needed to lynch someone or becasue you are Mafia and wanted a Townie dead?

 

It seems your only reason for voting for him was becasue you wanted to lynch someone. Which is what Mafia would do!

 

My reasons have been proved wrong, but I atleast had them. You had alot of time to unvote for Angel, after seeing people vote for him, and realizing he was about to be lynched, I would think that you would have unvoted because your vote had no reasoning behind it.

 

If you actually were thinking my reasoning was fair, then why do you think I am all of a sudden Mafia, and not just a Townie who got it wrong like yourself?

 

 

 

At this time it appears that we either have a regular cop role or a one use role that was not used. No lynch on day 2 does not look like the best strategy to me, so I think I will take a wild guess...

 

Vote: Angel

 

Kaziocore is still under suspicion by me, but he has atleast stated that he mainly voted for Angel becasue he was going inactive. While that was a reason for me voting for him, my main reason was becasue of the immediate retalitory vote on d3mon, which I thought was reckless and showed that he could easily be Mafia trying to get people to bandwagon on him.

 

KevinH is still under suspicion as well, although I do believe his only reason for voting Angel, was to just vote. My vote,i believe was the one that actually lynched him. I think he knew that, being a veteran player.

 

Now seeing that Angel is a Townie, and that I was wrong, I am heavily leaning toward placing a vote on d3mon, his vote for Angel was a wild guess, that lead to a Townie death, I could consider d3mon's vote on Angel as reckelss as it showed no consideration for the consequences of placing a random vote, with no reasoning behind it.

((Sorry if this post is sort of difficult to follow, I just read those posts and started writing without much forethought. It's just sort of stream of consciousness as I was thinking about things.))

 

Well, I think that is sort of the missing link. We've been hard pressed for a power role for support and for any kind of evidence. I am concerned about one thing, it seems rather unsavory. It is an unlikely coincidence, I guess, but it seems like if is in in fact truly evidence of his scumminess that it should somehow be out of bounds. I'm thinking he could have viewed his profile as a step in sending him a PM, which seems sort of like what Kaziocore would have been implying. However, that wasn't something that was said in this thread and all game discussion should happen in this thread. I am NOT bringing this up as a defense of D3mon, its just sort of my gut feeling. However, what has been seen can not be unseen.

 

I wish that Kaziocore had made some more subtle indications throughout the game. Something to point to that could say, here I told you so earlier. I think he did a great job of outlining his thinking in light of his claim and definitely gives more merit to his sudden change of heart about D3mon going into later days.

 

@Kaziocore: FightingOkra asked this also, you had a one use power that can no longer be used right? So you are now effectively a generic townie role?

 

Also to spell it out in case I misunderstood, there is either A) a doctor that prevented the mafia NK when you killed Tracker OR B ) both you and the mafia targeted the same person and the flavor text simply supports that you got to him first. I think that flavor text is positive support for your role claim in general, not necessarily either of these cases however.

 

As to D3mon's response, certainly visiting profiles does not make someone mafia. I visited a bunch of your guy's profiles when I started playing, I hope that doesn't come back to haunt me. I have to agree with this, while it doesn't alone demonstrate that they might be mafia, and he's right Kaziocore did also visit them, the timing and the visits do both seem pretty strangely coincidental. I think there is a little more to his last line as well, sparse of a defense as it may be. Kaziocore's role claim is coming at a time when he had been pegged to be mafia on a 50/50 chance to D3mon. He has more or less played a trump card to this. Interestingly though, if I was trying to role claim to avoid being lynched I probably would not hint (let alone out right say) that my power role had expired, which is why that earlier question asked by FightingOkra and myself is important. It sounded like he is now generic, which means if we were on the fence before about lynching Kaziocore, it would technically not make us any worse off in terms of 50/50 between him and D3mon. (I use 50/50 loosely here, it just seemed like some of us were leaning to one of them.) Either we lynched an expired power role (thinking that he potentially lied) or we lynch a generic townie (thinking he was scummy), hoping they are scum. I have to think that Kaziocore would have thought of this sometime in his quite long role claim post if he was only claiming for the sake of saving his own skin.

 

At this point I have to sympathize with Kaziocore. It seems like a legit claim and certainly adds some fluidity to his semi sporadic conclusions going on into D2 and D3. However, his evidence is not gathered from any sort of in game material which not only seems a little out of bounds to me, but also is only coincidental and doesn't really allow us to build an argument. I wanted to end this post saying, "this might be as close as we get to following the cop", but I think that would be a trap to fall into. Kaziocore isn't a cop, nor is he pretending to be. He hasn't supplied any extra evidence because of his power role, in fact he killed a townie with it! So, while I think its helpful to know where we stand a little bit, Kaziocore's role claim isn't all that helpful. I guess it just doesn't give me a whole lot of incentive to vote for D3mon. Please do not misunderstand me, if D3mon turns out to be scum this post was not intended to be a defense of him. In fact, I don't think it would be all that coincidental if Kaziocores notice of his profile visits does indicate his scumminess. However, I just don't think it is all that conclusive either. Sure its evidence, but it's coincidental and isn't something we could build a case on to help us identify more scum. D3mon might get my vote because of this, but on principle of not voting without better evidence he might not. On the other hand, I did earlier say we have to think about lynching a scum now because we might not have another chance to do it. So in the interest of not planning too far ahead and just taking our best bet on keeping the game alive, D3mon might be that best bet at the moment.

I think Kaziocore's role-claim is too incredible to be fabricated.

I'll give townie points for that.

 

I think it was poor play to spend a one-shot vigilante kill on a mere guess, but c'est la vie.

 

I think the flavor text might imply multiple kills on the same target.

 

Regarding profile visits, I don't find them scummy. Pro-town power roles have to message the mod, too. Anyone looking for anyone looking will also show up.

Yes I'm now just a chef with no more knives to use.

 

And KevinH, all we could do is guess without info from the cop.

The best thing we can do is make the most intelligent guess...

I don't understand why visiting someone's profile is ground for suspicion.. infact, you are claiming to have done the same thing... moreover, if you check the list of visitors for EM, he also has visits from Tracker and FO... I guess, that means they are also scum..

 

[sarcasm] I like your line of reasoning [/sarcasm]

 

Anyway the only suspect I could think of is d3mon.

Now with the two instances of seeing him view the

mod's profile (one on RoT and one on EM) and in

addition to d3mon's "inactiveness" at some parts of d1

and also on d2, his posts are not generally useful and

eventually choosing to no lynch on d1

(yes... no lynching for me gives you minus points because

I believe it does not benefit the town. Look at d2, it's just

d1 minus one person and now we have less voting information)

I have my reason for suspecting him of being a scum.

 

BTW.. I find your confession of wanting to kill CD and having killed a townie.. very unusual.. if anything, it makes me think that 2 or more scum voted for Angel... that you have realized that things are not looking great and are now making desperate and ridiculous claims.

 

Not looking great for the townies!

If the whole townie will vote between us

and it's lylo, why shouldn't i roleclaim?

If I get lynched, it's gameover???

Not looking great for the townies!

If the whole townie will vote between us

and it's lylo, why shouldn't i roleclaim?

If I get lynched, it's gameover???

 

If you are townie and the town will vote between us.. then, I guess that scum is really enjoying the show

 

I understand that if we mis-lynch today then its gameover and while I still find your role claim bizarre.. for a second, lets assume that it is true..

 

Now, at the risk of oversimplifying, all I see in your analysis is "d3mon's actions very closely resemble those of Kaziocore.. He must be scum". Is this something that you want to use as a criteria for lynch on LYLO?

 

Also, I hope you realize that a misjudgement on your part has resulted in death of a townie power role.. do you think that you have got it right this time?

I think Kaziocore's role-claim is too incredible to be fabricated.

I'll give townie points for that.

 

I think it was poor play to spend a one-shot vigilante kill on a mere guess, but c'est la vie.

 

I think the flavor text might imply multiple kills on the same target.

 

Regarding profile visits, I don't find them scummy. Pro-town power roles have to message the mod, too. Anyone looking for anyone looking will also show up.

Yes I'm now just a chef with no more knives to use.

 

And KevinH, all we could do is guess without info from the cop.

The best thing we can do is make the most intelligent guess...

I will agree Kazio's roleclaim is very detailed. I will also say it is entirely possible to fabricate - a classic "unprovable" scum claim. Reference my fake claim last game as a "Curious Child" type for the detail I provided then.

 

My gut-check reaction to Kazio's claim was "SCUM!" because of the "I had a role but used it already and nothing happened that I can conclusively say was me" element of it - which is exactly the sort of role our scum roleclaim planning discussed as viable when we were talking in game 2.

 

Kazio himself referenced the two cases where his role could be legitimate:

1) Tracker's kill succeeded, Mafia's kill was blocked

2) Tracker and mafia tried to kill the same person

 

The third case of course that Tracker's role is a fake based on the flavor text as a support.

 

In a previous game molestargazer (mod) very strongly stated that flavor text is only that - flavor without any meaning. All you get is that someone died, and their role. So I also react negatively to the claim that flavor text somehow supports Kazio's claim. My mind also boggles somewhat at the odds of either of the two above cases actually happening; either the same target chosen or a blocked kill - it's possible, but crazy luck if so.

 

The last element to his claim is that he tries to use it to put suspicion on d3mon based on viewing EM's profile... interesting information to be sure if accurate, but the significant bit is that the name is dropped - turning the roleclaim into also an attack on d3mon.

 

With all of the above said - Kazio's roleclaim is still plausible. I do not see an obvious contradiction with an existing role or anything that would suggest it's unbalanced; vigilante is a known role pattern straight from mafiascum.net. So while I am suspicious given the circumstances of the claim (i.e. no two deaths to confirm a second killer, claiming flavor text supports the role, unconfirmable now) - I do not see any blatant inconsistency that reveals it as fake.

 

Taking a page from Kevin's stating-the-obvious book: this is either a well-written, detailed true roleclaim or a well-written, detailed fake roleclaim.

 

On the subject of KevinH -

Interesting that he is saying this roleclaim is "Too Incredible" when it could be faked, but moreover I note the relation of supporting Kazio - because it creates a very interesting circular logic loop:

*d3mon has said twice that he thinks KevinH is town, and I believe it was Kazio who previously said that if d3mon was scum, KevinH would be the next scum; hence KevinH + d3mon seem on the same side.

*d3mon and Kazio argued earlier in the day accusing each other, making it appear they're not on the same side.

*And now KevinH is supporting Kazio's claim, suggesting THEY are on the same side.

It's a funny sort of reasoning triangle here among these three... and now I'm not really sure whom to be more suspicious of.

 

KevinH supporting Kazio could be town supporting town against d3mon as a possible/probable scum.

KevinH supporting Kazio could be scum supporting scum, and Kazio's earlier statement just to make distance.

KevinH supporting Kazio could be town being fooled by a detailed (a.k.a. verbose) fake roleclaim.

KevinH supporting Kazio could be scum supporting a townie to build support against d3mon as a mis-lynch target

KevinH supporting Kazio could be scum supporting a townie to distance himself from scum d3mon in preparation to sacrifice d3mon.

 

I am still suspicious of KevinH for his actions earlier, and this makes his easy acceptance of the roleclaim very interesting to me. However I don't yet see any 'clear' indicators that make me feel confident enough to vote for Kevin - because his position is also plausible, if incredible should it be true.

 

If you are townie and the town will vote between us.. then, I guess that scum is really enjoying the show

 

I understand that if we mis-lynch today then its gameover and while I still find your role claim bizarre.. for a second, lets assume that it is true..

 

Now, at the risk of oversimplifying, all I see in your analysis is "d3mon's actions very closely resemble those of Kaziocore.. He must be scum". Is this something that you want to use as a criteria for lynch on LYLO?

 

Also, I hope you realize that a misjudgement on your part has resulted in death of a townie power role.. do you think that you have got it right this time?

And now d3mon -

Disregarding the first line as standard "Yeah I'm town too" statements, there doesnt seem to be much to this question you pose; it just questions the strength of the argument being used on him and repeats the idea that Kazio has admitted to trying to kill Tracker - whether it's actually him who did it or not.

 

There's not much being said in your own defense, if by nothing else than by process of elimination; if I am evaluating between kazio and d3mon based on their argument earlier, then one being more town would make the other look more scum - and while I am unsure what to think of Kazio's claim it's almost stronger than your sarcastic defense thus far. I could see you and kevin as scum together, and Kazio town; I could see Kazio as a scum fakeclaim and yourself town with Kevin either supporting scum or duped town.

 

Give me something more to respond to so I can try and decide between you two.

 

As for FO -

At minimum you acknowledge Kazio's claim could be faked, which is good.

 

It's not unusual for you to be suspicious of the other three who voted for Angel - it's almost exactly your earlier position in fact. The change is that now you are focusing on d3mon, same as Kazio is doing. Having two of the list now stating suspicion of one other on the same list is a strong voice in favor of that. I havent seen too much of your posts, but this is the first ive seen of you taking a stronger position on someone.

 

I need to hear more about you as well, but frankly I'm focusing more on Kazio vs d3mon at this point; when I tried to draw out a 'FO scum/kazio town vs kazio scum/FO town' table, I realized my analysis keeps coming back to the idea that kazio and d3mon do not appear to be on the same side - if Kazio is town then d3mon is most likely scum, and vice versa.

 

We have another week to get some more information out here and examine posts.

 

As for BeeBs-

I need to read through more of BeeBs' posts, but those huge paragraphs kinda blur together @.@ Separate lines can help.

 

His most current appears to be mostly confirmation/analysis of Kazio's roleclaim and d3mon's reaction to it. He goes out of his way to say it's not a defense of d3mon, which is somewhat interesting - but I'm not certain if that's significant enough to affect the rest of this tangled web.

 

As for ccabal-

Inactive, possibly being replaced, hasnt spoken since his blurb about trying to give his replacement a "Clean slate" - do we want the mod to bring someone in here? I'd prefer ccabal himself stay.

 

As for Nerau-

If anyone's seen Nerau... please ask him to post? We need our known townie to weigh in here.

 

Okay, I've somewhat worn myself out with all this @.@ Too much time spent rereading the bloody thread. I'll check in later - hopefully Nerau will have posted by then.

 

-Preston

I like it when there is meaning in the flavor text. Other games not modded by mole had subtle references that became more obvious after the game. I don't know if that's the case here or not.

 

I am a simple townie and only have the power of my vote. I want to use it wisely.