1125 replies to this topic

[Yates]

@Yates ... I have other "slightly" more important things to do in the Republic as well, since I oversee a number of departments Thus this particular thread isn't on top of my ToDo list >.<

That is a fair point. I would like to clarify, though, that I was not trying to rush you. In this game 12-24 hours is a reasonable response time. My post 226 was merely to see if anyone else had seen you post since I have a narrow selection of threads to find you in. When I did a search on you, based on the threads *I* could see, your post in here was the last post you had made.

I was also trying to slow the roll on certain individuals jumping to conclusions on things when the only response has been a vacuum. That's not a statement about your lack of response so much as it is a statement about individuals making statements WITHOUT your response. If that makes sense???

In response to your latest post, if that was directed at me [or even if it was not] I feel like this is a good time to bring something up [more meta related than game related so Ima spoiler it so it doesn't distract from the game]:

Spoiler

I play mafia quite a bit on several sites - I'm sure I easily have over 100 games under my belt. This is pretty much the only place on your site where you will see me being serious-Yates as opposed to jokey/smartass Yates. I take these games seriously because when someone takes the time to think up a game and moderate [which is a LOT of work if you have never done it] I think it's disrespectful not to give that mod a full effort to make their game as fun and interesting as possible. Heck, on two of the sites I play on I have moderators begging me to play in their games even as a vanilla townie just because they know at the very least I am going to do SOMETHING to makes sure that game is fun and lively. I'll leave it up to Kaz to vet the truth value of that statement when this game is all wrapped up.

This is my first game on this one so please allow me to self-meta. At times I can and will come across as abrasive. Please know that I truly do not mean anything personal and that it is purely an in-character sort of deal. As soon as the game is over I will be the first one to give credit where credit is due and have a MUCH more civil discourse on game theory. The thing is, this is a game where people lie because they are scum, lie because they are Town, or lie for self preservation. You may catch more flies with honey but based on my past experience I *personally* catch more scum with salt. Also, I will introduce a fair share of hyperbole in many of my posts. Again, this is purely gamesmanship.

So if any of you ever think I have crossed a line or think I'm doing something to make the game less fun for you, please shoot the mod a pm so the mod can let me know [only because outside communication with each other directly about this game is verbotten]. I feel like I've reigned it in even on the least civil sites I play on but I know that doesn't always carry over the way I want it to on forums that aren't mafia-centric. I promise you that when this is all done we will have had a fun game, I will hopefully have challenged you to think differently about something, and I will have learned some meta to make the next game even MORE fun. Oh, and if you don't ask yourself "WTF?!" at least once about something I have done, I'll feel like I have failed you! /OOC

[Yates]

Triple post score:

 

@Helix and killgore - now that Theo has admitted he DID have a night action [regardless of the fact he isn't being truthful and forthcoming] AS I SAID, what now?  Time to revisit your thoughts on Yates, yes?

[Iron Helix]

Objectively, the only thing that tells us is you know Theo had a night action. It doesn't prove alignment if that's what you're getting at.

 

 

 

Conversely, if he knows he's caught but doesn't know EXACTLY what I have yet, he is forced to *guess* at what I have on him and just spill the beans.

 

I'm not sure what"spill the beans" means, but if he's scum, I can't imagine him doing anything other than coming up with a plausible town claim. 

 

If he's Town, and there's a Town reason for my result, there's no reason for him to lie or be nervous. He can just tell us his night action without fear of prosecution.

 

If you have some sort of result that is extremely specific, I suppose I'd agree with this approach.  But it'd need to be so specific that it eliminates any plausible fake claims.  After all you've said on this subject, if Theo comes up with a generic town claim and you don't have something extremely damning to refute it, in my book, you become more suspicious than Theo.
 

We'll see as this plays out if your approach works for you.

[Electric Mango]

I'm pretty sure we all have night actions Yates. Also if Theo was scum and he did target me then I would most likely be dead. Theo visiting me is not a scum tell, it's a townie tell.

I still believe you are a townie though Yates. Our scum lay with those that did not vote for Kevin or voted for him in the random stage and couldn't remove their vote without drawing attention to themselves.

[Electric Mango]

Also theo, I did not see your previous post. I use my phone and I started my post before you hit reply with yours. Your initial response was sufficient for me. No hard feelings.

[Iron Helix]

For the record I do not have a night action.

[Electric Mango]

Well you have a power role which is what I should have said.

Also Yates mentioned two factions. I believe that we have scum and vigilante and/or serial killer.

[Iron Helix]

In regard to that, it was 1 crossbow (singular) and wolves (plural) that killed CS.

[Yates]

Objectively, the only thing that tells us is you know Theo had a night action.

That's correct. All you know is that I knew Theo had a night action.
And that I called him out on it on my first post of the day.

You claim that doesn't say anything about my alignment. Ok. You're right. I guess I *could be* a scum rolecop that just outted himself on Day 2 for... lulz? And even if you thought that, why wouldn't you take a scum served up on a platter even if it's from someone you are mostly sure is another scum? Wouldn't the logical order of things be; 1. lynch the scum that was found 2. let night actions resolve 3. lynch PROBABLE scum if night actions havent sorted that out for you already?

For the record I do not have a night action.

Of course not. You're an innocent child. That's all the "action" you get. Also, as mod confirmed Town, you are a night target that can never be allowed to reach MYLO. Good luck with that.

[Yates]

@Helix [or killgor] - as to the rest of your post that really isn't worth responding to because it's rehashing basic gameplay, let me answer with a question already posed...

What is your response to the argument I laid out in this post?  And if you have problems with the first paragraph?  Feel free to ignore it entirely because EM could be right.  There's a probability it's a vig or SK and not a second entire faction.  That's not something I wanted to own up to entirely until after Theo's next post but whatever.  This is already like pulling teeth.

[Electric Mango]

Unvote: Theo
Vote: Muted Faith

Muted Faith did not vote to lynch scum.

[Yates]

What makes you so sure KevinH was scum?  Are you just assuming he was scum because is character was a werewolf even though he flipped green - the same color as lurch?  That sounds bastard moddy to me.

[Electric Mango]

Kevin lied about his character and he turned out to be a werewolf. Seems pretty cut and dried.

[Electric Mango]

Also Iron Helix challenged any townie werewolves to step forward and no one has. We know there are multiple werewolves according to the death scene.

[Iron Helix]

That's correct. All you know is that I knew Theo had a night action.
And that I called him out on it on my first post of the day.

 

Let's say you were a doctor as an example, Robert. And last night you tried to protect someone. If I voted you off the bat and said you needed to explain yourself, what would your response be? Would you assume I was scum, as Theo is claiming, OR would you think to yourself, "Gee, how would Yates know I visited someone last night unless he had some type of investigative ability?"

You called him scum on the first post.  You didn't mention he had a night action until after Theo had voted for you.  From Theo's perspective, it looked as if you were acting as a cop role rather than a watcher/tracker, yet one who didn't even bother to claim he was a cop. 

 

 

You claim that doesn't say anything about my alignment. Ok. You're right. I guess I *could be* a scum rolecop that just outted himself on Day 2 for... lulz? And even if you thought that, why wouldn't you take a scum served up on a platter even if it's from someone you are mostly sure is another scum? Wouldn't the logical order of things be; 1. lynch the scum that was found 2. let night actions resolve 3. lynch PROBABLE scum if night actions havent sorted that out for you already?

 

The reason is we wouldn't want to mistakenly solidify you as town player merely on the basis of you claiming Theo had a night action.  Yes a scum could easily claim early.  If your argument is scum would never claim early, that just makes a meta game where a scum could claim early to pass himself as a town investigative role.

 

We don't know anything about your role other than you know Theo had a night action.  You won't even tell us your character's name.  As far as we know, you have called someone scum merely on the basis that they had a night action.  We don't know if you even knew that Theo visited EM. 

 

More to the point, we don't know if you know that Theo is scum.  You may just be fishing for his role.  You say there are possible town roles that can explain the "fishy" thing you saw.  

 

The two claims you are making are:

1. He did something at night

2. That something was suspicious

 

The only reasonable position you can have to make that would be if you are more than just a tracker who saw Theo visit EM.  

 

Having a night action is not fishy and worthy of calling someone scum in the first post of the day. 

Visiting EM with that night action is not fishy and worthy of calling someone scum in the first post of the day.

 

So you better know more than that to base your accusations off of.  

If he claims he's a doctor and you don't have something to refute that, you're in trouble.

If he claims he investigated EM and you don't have something to refute that, you're in trouble.

Because if he claims either of those (or something similar) and your reaction was to call him scum and his actions fishy from the get go, you, sir, are the suspicious one.

 

Hopefully you have an ace up your sleeve with what you know about Theo's night action.  If you are going to share everything at some point today, then you shouldn't be worried about this.

 

 

[Yates]

@Mod - would scum flip a different color from Town?

 

Worth a shot.  While he did lie, it's also possible he was a Mason.  I'd like to rule that out.

[Iron Helix]

Yates, I have no idea if you are town or scum.  If I had to place odds one way or the other, I guess you're more likely to be town than scum.

 

Honestly, I think EM has a point.  This might just all be a ridiculous circle jerk. 

 

And MutedFaith has been quiet the whole day to boot.

 

Unvote

 

Vote MutedFaith

[Iron Helix]

Although... maybe there are two types of werewolves...?  Probably a stretch, but the whole Green Werewolf is extremely confusing.

[Electric Mango]

I'm confused by the green also but I can't imagine any other scenario where a werewolf would be a good guy.

[Yates]

You called him scum on the first post.  You didn't mention he had a night action until after Theo had voted for you.

Splitting hairs. The VERY safe assumption is I'm calling him scum for a reason.

From Theo's perspective, it looked as if you were acting as a cop role rather than a watcher/tracker, yet one who didn't even bother to claim he was a cop.

And? The first thing you do when someone says "why are you scum, bro?" in a mafia game is ASSUME the accuser is scum? Is that how this game works?

The reason is we wouldn't want to mistakenly solidify you as town player merely on the basis of you claiming Theo had a night action.

Well no duh. You'd have to see Theo's flip to make any assumptions about my alignment. Which is kind of my point regarding why things happen in a certain order.

If your argument is scum would never claim early, that just makes a meta game where a scum could claim early to pass himself as a town investigative role

This is a laughable conclusion to come to based on my argument and indicates you aren't thinking past what's directly in front of you. Try thinking two or three steps ahead.
 

More to the point, we don't know if you know that Theo is scum.

I've said as much and you've quoted me. Yet you fail to ask yourself the most basic of questions; if Theo is Town, why would he lie?

Having a night action is not fishy and worthy of calling someone scum in the first post of the day. 

Visiting EM with that night action is not fishy and worthy of calling someone scum in the first post of the day.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
 

If he claims he's a doctor and you don't have something to refute that, you're in trouble.
If he claims he investigated EM and you don't have something to refute that, you're in trouble.
Because if he claims either of those (or something similar) and your reaction was to call him scum and his actions fishy from the get go, you, sir, are the suspicious one.

Again, agree to disagree. Nothing happens in a vacuum. You are not seeing the big picture. Further, I will bet you ONE MILLION DONGS that I will not be lynched today regardless of Theo's fakeclaim and your misunderstanding of the game state.
 

If you are going to share everything at some point today, then you shouldn't be worried about this.

I'm not in the slightest. My only concern is that everything you have been saying today has been counterproductive and you are starting to confuse people like Robert with your nonsense.

Let me ask you this; do you think KevinH was Town or Scum? If you think he was scum [as it sort of appears], would you care to explain why I cheerleaded his lynch then set my sites on Theo? Do you think my plan, as scum, is to bus all my partners for Town credit then try to win this thing SK-style?


*I would like to point out that killgor had been reading this thread for a while and has yet to respond to recent developments. Ditto iSocialism. I'd like to know why they decided not to post. This is really a note to myself.