1125 replies to this topic

[Yates]

I'm confused by the green also but I can't imagine any other scenario where a werewolf would be a good guy.

Ditto. Outside of Miller, it makes no sense. And I don't think this game has Millers. That said, it *is* bastardly to flip a scum so it appears Town. So if this is a bastard game, it would be good to know up front.

[Yates]

Hey guys - while we're all here - can we talk about the other elephant in the room?

I got neighborized last night.  What are the chances the neighborizer is a Town neighborizer vs a Scum neighborizer?

[Yates]

One more note to self:

Spoiler

[Iron Helix]

And? The first thing you do when someone says "why are you scum, bro?" in a mafia game is ASSUME the accuser is scum? Is that how this game works?

 

If I'm a town player and someone calls me scum in that manner, then it's not unlikely.

 

Well no duh. You'd have to see Theo's flip to make any assumptions about my alignment. Which is kind of my point regarding why things happen in a certain order.

 

Yet you've made multiple reasons posts wanting us to make assumptions about your alignment.  You claiming knowledge first would prove your alignment better than parroting back everything Theo says.

 

This is a laughable conclusion to come to based on my argument and indicates you aren't thinking past what's directly in front of you. Try thinking two or three steps ahead.

 

Really you didn't make an argument.  An argument is comprised of premises and conclusions.  You merely said you could be a scumcop who claimed for "lulz?".  This implied there was no other reason for scum to claim (even though you say you thought I outed you, sort of making that an irrelevant point). I inferred from what you said that you are making the argument that scum would never claim early.  That in reality was just a conclusion with no supporting premises framed in a question format to imply that anyone who disagrees is an idiot.  The above quote does nothing to address what I said in any way that can be debated, since it is not an argument, but merely a subjective evaluation designed to incur self doubt and self attack.

 

Every time I see this, I move you further towards the scum side on my little chart.

 

I've said as much and you've quoted me. Yet you fail to ask yourself the most basic of questions; if Theo is Town, why would he lie?

 

You said he was scum first post.  Since then  you've changed to saying you don't know if he's scum.  

If Theo is town, he doesn't need to lie.  Has he lied?

If he's scum (as you initially claimed), how will you distinguish if he's lying?  Again, hopefully you have more information for us to evaluate this.

 

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Again, agree to disagree. Nothing happens in a vacuum. You are not seeing the big picture. Further, I will bet you ONE MILLION DONGS that I will not be lynched today regardless of Theo's fakeclaim and your misunderstanding of the game state.

 

Last game we played here at least half the players had a night action.  If you have indeed done all this because of that limited amount of information, then, yes, I'd disagree with your actions. 

 

You have also violated game rules.

 

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, alliances, etc. Using knowledge from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another

 

 

Let me ask you this; do you think KevinH was Town or Scum? If you think he was scum [as it sort of appears], would you care to explain why I cheerleaded his lynch then set my sites on Theo? Do you think my plan, as scum, is to bus all my partners for Town credit then try to win this thing SK-style?

 

If he is scum, then that is a point in your favor.  If KH was part of the wolf mafia, it is unlikely you are a wolf.  If Van Helsing is a SK, it's unlikely the SK would also be a tracker/watcher, so that's also a point in your favor. 

 

However, if KevinH is scum and part of the wolf mafia, why did Theo also push for KevinH's lynch? It would only be plausible if he were the SK Van Helsing.  And if he is the SK Van Helsing, it's unlikely he would have visited EM as well as kill CS.

 

So... was KevinH scum? 

[Iron Helix]

Also if you're a tracker, you would have seen Theo visit CS if Theo were the SK Van Helsing.

[Lyner]

Whoa that's a lot of mess

 

So Yates in short, you are 100% sure that Theo is scum and you'll reveal why in later days, after Theo reveals what he did to EM last night? Anything I miss?

 

 

 

Next we have Werewolves, which are usually the bad guys, but here we're all non-human beings and his name is written in green, which suggests that they're town. Which means they are Vigs? so we have 2 vigs? But who killed the poor Leprechaun? So this means they are SKs? Or rather are they the third party besides Van Helsing? or are they actually the mafias and Van Helsing is the SK?

 

tl;dr just wait for Mod's confirmation

 

 

 

MF hasn't been showing up frequently in my mother forums as well, probably RL issues

[Yates]

And? The first thing you do when someone says "why are you scum, bro?" in a mafia game is ASSUME the accuser is scum? Is that how this game works?

 
If I'm a town player and someone calls me scum in that manner, then it's not unlikely.

This is what I mean about you being counter productive. That is NOT proper Town play. And moreover, I think [hope?] you wouldn't play it like that and you are trolling me again. There is a time and a place for OMGUS but that was inapropriate. A better play would have been to question my vote. Did I spaz out on anyone for voting me? I simply shrugged it off and pointed out errors in play. THAT is how a TOWNIE responds to a single vote or two.
 

You claiming knowledge first would prove your alignment better than parroting back everything Theo says.

This is also what I mean about you being counter productive. How many people does it take to tell you that you are wrong? [Rhetorical] I'll drop it at this point. I guess you'll need to see how it plays out to understand.

*WORDZ*
Every time I see this, I move you further towards the scum side on my little chart.

That chart isn't what's going to keep you safe at night. And based on what I've seen so far, isn't going to net you a single baddie.
 

1. You said he was scum first post.  2. Since then  you've changed to saying you don't know if he's scum.

1. Hyperbole. How am I supposed to get the info out of him I need? Lollipops? Well, I'm all out of lollipops.
2. Nope. I did, however, acknowledge that there is a SLIM chance he's Town. Which leads to this...  

If Theo is town, he doesn't need to lie.  Has he lied?

Yup. He hasn't been forthcoming so yes he has lied.

If he's scum (as you initially claimed), how will you distinguish if he's lying?

TBD - Again, this isn't information he needs to have beforehand so he can fabricate a defense. If he's Town, he doesn't need to known because he doesn't need to fabricate.
 

You have also violated game rules.

I guess Kaz should mod kill me then. Or, Kaz knows that wasn't an actual bet and you are, once again, being counter productive and trolling.
 

If he is scum, then that is a point in your favor.  If KH was part of the wolf mafia, it is unlikely you are a wolf.  If Van Helsing is a SK, it's unlikely the SK would also be a tracker/watcher, so that's also a point in your favor.

Why was it so hard for you to untuck your head from your 4th point of contact? Are you starting to understand why each of your posts is so frustratingly counter productive? These are rhetorical. Please don't answer.
 

However, if KevinH is scum and part of the wolf mafia, why did Theo also push for KevinH's lynch?

It's called distancing. And he was never given a convenient out to unvote. So he was stuck.

So... was KevinH scum?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[Yates]

Nobody wants to tell me if my neighbor is scum or town?

[Electric Mango]

Hey guys - while we're all here - can we talk about the other elephant in the room?

I got neighborized last night. What are the chances the neighborizer is a Town neighborizer vs a Scum neighborizer?

I would say the odds favor them being town. I've played many games but have never seen the head neighbor be scum before.

[Lyner]

Nobody wants to tell me if my neighbor is scum or town?

 

It'd be awesome if cop can clear the neighborizer while getting into the neighbor, other than that I don't think we can't do anything about it, not enough informations

 

 

 

also:

 

So Yates in short, you are 100% sure that Theo is scum and you'll reveal why in later days, after Theo reveals what he did to EM last night? Anything I miss?

[Yates]

So Yates in short, you are 100% sure that Theo is scum and you'll reveal why in later days, after Theo reveals what he did to EM last night?

I'm not here to be your friend. Try Helix if you want to play Hippie. I'm here to catch scum.

Theo is scum and I'm the only one voting him due to Hippie mentality and actually IN SPITE of the one content post he has made today. This makes me sad.

[Iron Helix]

This is what I mean about you being counter productive. That is NOT proper Town play. And moreover, I think [hope?] you wouldn't play it like that and you are trolling me again. There is a time and a place for OMGUS but that was inapropriate. A better play would have been to question my vote. Did I spaz out on anyone for voting me? I simply shrugged it off and pointed out errors in play. THAT is how a TOWNIE responds to a single vote or two.

This is also what I mean about you being counter productive. How many people does it take to tell you that you are wrong? [Rhetorical] I'll drop it at this point. I guess you'll need to see how it plays out to understand.

Why was it so hard for you to untuck your head from your 4th point of contact? Are you starting to understand why each of your posts is so frustratingly counter productive? These are rhetorical. Please don't answer.

 

Counter productive. Not proper town play. Trolling. Spaz. etc

 

These are meaningless buzz words.  All you're doing is making arguments by adjective.  There's no actual reasoned argument to be debated. Either explain your points as to why I'm wrong in a reasoned and cogent argument or ignore it.  Responding back that "I'm a troll" is absolutely worthless in any objectifiable sense.

 

That chart isn't what's going to keep you safe at night. And based on what I've seen so far, isn't going to net you a single baddie.

 

Irrelevant.  My role is ultimately expendable.  I had no control over the revelation that I was town.

 

1. Hyperbole. How am I supposed to get the info out of him I need? Lollipops? Well, I'm all out of lollipops.
2. Nope. I did, however, acknowledge that there is a SLIM chance he's Town. Which leads to this...

 

So you're not sure he's scum.  Yet you're willing to mislead everyone.  That's good to know.  Speaks volumes for the rest of what you do.

 

Yup. He hasn't been forthcoming so yes he has lied.

 

You're equivocating.  If "not being forthcoming" is what you meant, you should have said that.  

 

The proper question you should have asked was: "If Theo is Town, why would he not be forthcoming?"

 

He hasn't lied.  Should he be forthcoming? Yes, if for no other reason to get this over with.

 

TBD - Again, this isn't information he needs to have beforehand so he can fabricate a defense. If he's Town, he doesn't need to known because he doesn't need to fabricate.

 

I guess the question I should have asked was "Do you have a way to distinguish if he's lying?".  If not, then any claim he makes isn't going prove anything. Then we'd have to ask why you did all this. 

 

It's called distancing. And he was never given a convenient out to unvote. So he was stuck.

 

If it makes sense for him to do it, it makes sense for you to do it, so you're contradicting your original point.

 

I guess Kaz should mod kill me then. Or, Kaz knows that wasn't an actual bet and you are, once again, being counter productive and trolling.

 

It's good to know you didn't mean it.  I suppose that means that when you said it, you weren't using it to confer some sort of undue influence over the game by writing that.  That the reader wasn't meant to judge what you said in any game context.  

[Lyner]

 

So Yates in short, you are 100% sure that Theo is scum and you'll reveal why in later days, after Theo reveals what he did to EM last night?

I'm not here to be your friend. Try Helix if you want to play Hippie. I'm here to catch scum.

Theo is scum and I'm the only one voting him due to Hippie mentality and actually IN SPITE of the one content post he has made today. This makes me sad.

 

 

Nah just to make sure if you find Theo suspicious or if you found out that he's a scum :|

 

 

 

At least now we have better probabilities on hitting scum

VOTE: Theophilos

[Iron Helix]

Unvote

 

Vote Theophilos

 

Let's get this over with.

[Robert2424]

 

Unless I'm missing something?

You're missing something.

If there are two factions [as today's post would seem to indicate] then at least one of those factions - it is safe to assume - has a way of finding and/or blocking members of the other faction. A third option would be an arsonist/poisoner type of role but those are significantly less common.

Also, Theo needs to be significantly more forthcoming with his information. His assertion that he is "assuming" I am scum based on the fact that he knows I know he had a night action is exactly the OPPOSITE of a Town response.

Let's say you were a doctor as an example, Robert. And last night you tried to protect someone. If I voted you off the bat and said you needed to explain yourself, what would your response be? Would you assume I was scum, as Theo is claiming, OR would you think to yourself, "Gee, how would Yates know I visited someone last night unless he had some type of investigative ability?"

 

 

 

If I were a doctor. You voted for me right off the back. Well gee, outing that I had a night action puts a target on my back to the bad guys(So good job with that, that'll help the town), I'd know you were ether a Watcher, or a tracker. There isn't any other role you could possible be. I probably, would not vote you back, but try to play it cool. Trying to get the Inevitable heat off me so the bad guys won't think about targeting me at night. A doc is a very delicate role to play. You don't want to role claim as your are 99.9% chance of dying that night. So I'd have to refuse to role claim for the sake of the town not losing the doc, unless we have a Watcher, then maybe sacrifice myself, avoid being lynch, get a better chance of lynching somebody else, while I probably going to die that night, The watcher should watch me and the Town should lynch whoever killed me. So really, you outing Theo has any sort of night action if he is town, puts a target on his back. This info that you have should be used later in the game really. Not put out for all eyes to see. 

[Iron Helix]

If Theo is a doctor, this will go spectacularly bad.  Hopefully Yates knows that.

[Iron Helix]

I should say: Hopefully Yates knows that and has a reasonable explanation that Theo is not a doctor.  You know, other than the bogus, "a doctor would never have called me scum because that's counter productive/not how town plays". If Theo IS the doctor, and that was Yates sole reasoning, he should self vote when it is proven Theo is the doctor.  I think that's fair assurance.  If Yates is that confident, he should self vote if Theo proves town.

[Iron Helix]

 

I'm confused by the green also but I can't imagine any other scenario where a werewolf would be a good guy.

Ditto. Outside of Miller, it makes no sense. And I don't think this game has Millers. That said, it *is* bastardly to flip a scum so it appears Town. So if this is a bastard game, it would be good to know up front.

 

 

Actually, I think miller makes the most sense.  I'd probably put down that as the most reasonable explanation.  

[Kaziocore]

@Kazio, please explain.

[Kaziocore]

@Mod - would scum flip a different color from Town?

Yes, just like my other modded games