If Theo isn't the doctor, then the real doctor (or whoever has a mad scientist type role) should step forward.
Absolutely not. I'd rather die than see a doc counter claim. Caught scum claim doc or cop all the time to try to draw out the real doc or cop. This is SUPER anti-Town.
Yet you drew out the doctor (a claim at least) with what you did. Theo claimed he visited EM. EM didn't die. You knew this before Theo claimed. He's not the SK. He's not the mafioso who killed Shepard. What did you expect for him to claim? If a doctor counterclaims, we 1) lynch scum, 2) have more information to work with for night actions, 3) don't mislynch you (if you were town). There's no guarantee Theo will be night killed if he is a true doctor, especially if we go into night with the idea that we'll lynch him if he survives.
CS?
Also, a lot of people were wrong about Kevin. He was scummy. Why should I be singled out?
Obviously. It is not, however, impossible for that many people to ACT scummy in a game, yourself included. If you weren't mod confirmed I'd have serious doubts about your alignment based on statements and gameplay. Here's the thing; it isn't scummy to be wrong. If I knew who the scum were, this game would be easy. The only way for me to FIND the scum is to point out things that are scummy about individual posts, question it, and hope for a slip. I don't apologize for a single accusation I have made as each one was absolutely warranted.
CS = Commander Shepard
You've called nearly everyone scummy. If your metric of "playing scummy" was justification to lynch, you wouldn't be able to use it to distinguish town from actual scum. So far that's been the case.
I'm not calling you scum because you're wrong. I'm just pointing out a pattern that you've been calling proven town scum. I think we agree on this. You just have your justification for doing so.
Also, it's my prerogative to play scummy because I'm mod confirmed. I get to say pretty much anything. And yes I've been doing a lot of it on purpose.
CoD hasn't been posting. Robert strikes me as a noobish follower. Lyner hasn't done anything scummy. Yet. So what's your point? Have you acused anyone of being scum and been right? No? Okay, then.
Redirection. I haven't been wrong. You have (among other things).
Nope. I played a gambit. Gambit =/= lying. Motivation is everything. A lie would be to say something that wasn't true then not owning up to it. OR saying something that wasn't true and getting CAUGHT be untruthful. I could have just gone the rest of the game or until I was NKed with people [like killgor] thinking I was a tracker.
You tried to use me to say you had an investigation role. You pretended that you were confused about me being a mouthpiece for the mod and that I had "somehow found out" you had an investigative role. Clearly you were lying. Clearly you knew you didn't have an investigative role the entire time.
Your motivation has been in question the entire time. You could never have proved that Theo was scum. The only thing you could ever have gotten out of him was a role claim you couldn't disprove. This whole exercise was a farce.
If you had done what you did and had something, anything, to help you with your accusation (like an actual cop investigation result), it would be a different story. It turns out you had squat.
Continuing to claim as tracker would mean you'd need a fake claim and you'd have to give tracking results each day. And you'd make yourself a target at night. And you'd still have to explain why you did all this. And then you'd have to explain why you said you had more information ( a lie you'd have been caught on). Wasn't it Hitler who said people fall victim more easily to a big lie than a small one?
You said Kevin lied. His motivation was pro town. Therefor he didn't lie. Therefor you're a hypocrite.
You said Theo lied. If he's a doctor, his motivation is pro town too. Therefor he couldn't have lied since he revealed.
Lying is lying. Admitting that you lied doesn't mean you didn't lie.
Talk about double think. You're obfuscating (and lying).
Just Theo, actually. Through my gambit.
Lie.
Iron Helix, on 07 Dec 2013 - 17:43, said:
Since you've claimed you're not a tracker/watcher, that leaves you open to being a SK role.
Well, that's true of everyone but yourself, right? Which goes to show that as a Townie you should be suspicious of EVERYONE. Which is why your "point" about me calling so many people scum is silly and, frankly, hypocritical.
Yes it is true of everyone. I am suspicious of everyone to some degree. Just because I'm suspicious doesn't mean I alienate myself from the every player in the game like you have. I don't see how I'm hypocritical. I haven't definitively called anyone scum yet (though you're the closest imo). You have. You've called nearly everyone scum, not just their actions. I've never said you shouldn't be suspicious. You are equating suspicion with accusations, another misleading thing to come from you.
Also I was referencing our previous discussion where I thought you were likely town and I had ruled you out as SK (and mafia because everyone was turning on you) based on your claims. Now I'm saying that's not the case anymore. IMO you're still probably not mafia, but SK is very possible.
IF Theo is the doctor, I'm only partially to blame. As Theo admitted himself, he could have and should have handled that better IF he's the doctor.
Put yourself in my shoes for a second. You randomly accuse someone of having a night action based on their position on a wagon. Suddenly that person admits to having a night action. Would you NOT want to pursue that?? Don't be ridiculous. Of COURSE you would. And if you claim you wouldn't then you are doing it wrong.
I think you're going to find out a lot people have night actions. These closed games usually do (around here at least it seems). Having a night action is not a marker of scum on it's own. You could probably have done that to nearly anyone but me and ended up in the same position. But now you've gotten someone to claim and can't contribute anything for us to judge that claim. If that's the way you play why not mass claim.
Which leads to another point, that you seem to be claiming you DON'T have a night action.
There's a chance Theo is Town. There's a chance Theo is a doctor. I'm not betting the farm on it. That said, if he *IS* a doctor, the scum know who he is now and will kill him tonight. No point in pursuing that avenue any further until we wake up and find him alive tomorrow. If he's alive tomorrow? THEN we have more to discuss.
Killgor, on the other hand, has been just anti Town enough and in the right position on the Kevin wagon to at least warrant some pressure. If you lynch me today? Look at him tomorrow.
So what exactly is your suggestion at this point? No lynch? Lynch killgor? Start making everyone claim by voting for people one by one until they do? Genuinely curious.
You are acting like Theo is a confirmed Town Doc. This is nonsense. Are you saying all I have to do is claim Doc or Cop and magically I'm Town? That's not how mafia works.
No, but it's a claim that can be counterclaimed. I'm still waiting to see if that happens and for Theo's character claim. Again you did all this (through lies) and now we have no way to judge his claim EXCEPT a counterclaim or waiting until night (and that won't be reliable marker).
To be fair, I was baited into that last one by killgor when he claimed I played at a "kindergarten" site. That said, I have no meta here. That means I have no meta knowledge on any of you and none of you have any meta knowledge on me. I *can* tell you that by and large the "Town" play has been unimpressive. You are the only confirmed Town, for example. The fact that you have been pushing anti Town after anti Town agendas has me extremely concerned at our chances of winning. Are you asking me to NOT take my experience into account when it comes to basic mafia theory? If that's what you are asking then go ahead and lynch me now. I can't play like someone that's never seen a mafia game before.
Again, I get to seem anti town if I want to. It's my privilege to say pretty much anything since it can't really backfire on me.
That being said, if you think what I say is anti town, prove it. Throwing around labels is not an argument. I think I have done a decent job arguing why what you've done is questionable. You clearly disagree, but apparently you'd rather be selective with your responses and rely on arguments from authority and adjectives. By all means DEMONSTRATE your experience by making clear arguments free from propaganda, fallacies and irrelevance. If you were to do this, any truly "anti town agendas" would be easily rebutted and you'd have people agreeing with you.
I feel I've previously pointed out the true fallacies you've used and why they make what you've said not only irrelevant but highly questionable. Either you don't understand that or can't counter it or both.
I gave as much of a role claim as was necessary. If you really need to know? I'm Imhotep. The mummy. I'll let the scum figure out if I'm bp or not.
Oh yeah, you all know there's a Town mummy in this game [invited by the Count]. Anyone care to counter claim? No? Cool.
There's always the possibility of a safe list. Just because a character appears on in the narration doesn't mean anyone who claims that is de facto town. Who's to say Van Helsing isn't disguised as the mummy?
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I mean it isn't natural for me to post so fast after my previous post in here >.<
