I agree with everything Foxy said... including the Peace Prize thing. Don't underestimate Russia and their ability to wage war. They have proven time and again that technology can only get you so far. Ask Germany if they want to invade Russia again.

 

ok if anyone has really done there research about WW2 they would know that the only reason hitler didnt take the soviet union out is because he made a really dumb move and that was to decide "i want the city that bears stalins name" if he had done what he should have done which was continue on to moscow the soviet union would have been finished. The russians are still a force to be reckoned with but dont give them "that" much credit.

 

I agree with everything Foxy said... including the Peace Prize thing. Don't underestimate Russia and their ability to wage war. They have proven time and again that technology can only get you so far. Ask Germany if they want to invade Russia again.

 

ok if anyone has really done there research about WW2 they would know that the only reason hitler didnt take the soviet union out is because he made a really dumb move and that was to decide "i want the city that bears stalins name" if he had done what he should have done which was continue on to moscow the soviet union would have been finished. The russians are still a force to be reckoned with but dont give them "that" much credit.

 

And the Soviet military at that time was also absolutely pathetic by almost any standard. Yet they kicked Germanys ass. Also, the whole reason Stalingrad was targeted is because the only other target would have been Moscow, which the Soviets were expecting, thus the outcome would have been almost identical. Stalingrad was also a more strategical target for various reasons. Moscow, Stalingrad, either choice would have produced the same battle. Also, they deserve more credit than any other participant in the entire war, by far.

 

I agree with everything Foxy said... including the Peace Prize thing. Don't underestimate Russia and their ability to wage war. They have proven time and again that technology can only get you so far. Ask Germany if they want to invade Russia again.

 

ok if anyone has really done there research about WW2 they would know that the only reason hitler didnt take the soviet union out is because he made a really dumb move and that was to decide "i want the city that bears stalins name" if he had done what he should have done which was continue on to moscow the soviet union would have been finished. The russians are still a force to be reckoned with but dont give them "that" much credit.

 

The United States lost about 500,000 in WW2. The Soviet Union lost about 20,000,000 lives. Stalin would have beat Germany regardless by cutting off supply and shear numbers. The nuclear power of China is not what makes them powerful, it's the population.

 

Hitler lost because he failed to defeat England, therefore the United States had a base of operation to create a second front and poor little Adolf could not hold that off. The U.S. was way too late and should have come to help my English cousins much sooner. So sorry for that my British friends. Winston Churchill is on my list of great heroes.

 

 

I doubt russia shot down the airliner, just some foolish rebels with fancy rockets to use.

That was supplied to them by Russia. But yeah, the Russians probably didn't shoot, but I don't know what they expected from people whose very first thingy-to-do was to loot the still warm bodies for valuables.

 

sure it was russian made, as is everything the Ukraine mil has (hence we had the story of the ukrains shooting it down).

 

never heared about the looting from corpses, the taking from random discarded property I did hear off, I also heared that most of that was taken by neighbours to safe-keep until proper authorities (read non-russians) came around :Dd

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2705628/Mascara-Amsterdam-precise-field-Outrage-female-separatist-posts-Instagram-selfie-wearing-looted-mascara-boasting-it.html

 

Maybe she didn't loot it from a corpse, strictly speaking, but it's not much different.

 

 

 

I doubt russia shot down the airliner, just some foolish rebels with fancy rockets to use.

That was supplied to them by Russia. But yeah, the Russians probably didn't shoot, but I don't know what they expected from people whose very first thingy-to-do was to loot the still warm bodies for valuables.

 

sure it was russian made, as is everything the Ukraine mil has (hence we had the story of the ukrains shooting it down).

 

never heared about the looting from corpses, the taking from random discarded property I did hear off, I also heared that most of that was taken by neighbours to safe-keep until proper authorities (read non-russians) came around :Dd

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2705628/Mascara-Amsterdam-precise-field-Outrage-female-separatist-posts-Instagram-selfie-wearing-looted-mascara-boasting-it.html

 

Maybe she didn't loot it from a corpse, strictly speaking, but it's not much different.

 

well there are always vultures.

Kiev violated the ceasefire the second they signed the treaty. The Ukranian military never pulled back it's artillery 30km away from Luhanks and donetsk territory, and too add insult too injury shelled the cities on a regular basis claiming they were targeting "Terrorist." The fact of the matter is their is an indigenous population in East Ukraine that supports the rebellion, otherwise a rebellion could not and would not exist.

As for the argument that there are Russian commandos and weapons in East Ukraine, I fail to see how this is relevant. General Hodges is in Ukraine Right now, the General of U.S. forces in Europe. We've also spent billions on the Ukrainian military and given them intelligence and things like night vision goggles. The west is contributing far more military aid to Kiev than Russia is too the rebels.

Another note, prior to the rebellion the West and East came to an agreement and signed a treaty that allowed Yanokovych to remain in power until democratic elections were held nine months later. The very next day a mob forced it's way in to the presidential property and forced Viktor to flee. The anti-Russian forces were never looking for a peaceful resolution and now they are paying the price. The west has not held up on any of it's promises, have made accusations that they themselves are guilty of, and call an indigenous population who has lived their for millennium that they do not have the right to choose who they are governed by.

As for the argument that there are Russian commandos and weapons in East Ukraine, I fail to see how this is relevant. General Hodges is in Ukraine Right now, the General of U.S. forces in Europe. We've also spent billions on the Ukrainian military and given them intelligence and things like night vision goggles. The west is contributing far more military aid to Kiev than Russia is too the rebels.

Not trying to play devils advocate, but we (the US AND Russia) did sign an agreement to protect Ukraines sovereignty.

So legally speaking, the US is effectively obligated to bring our military to the table to defend Ukraine, whereas Russia is directly defying an agreement they signed.

 

But personally, that treaty means nothing to me and should have never been signed to begin with.

 

As for the argument that there are Russian commandos and weapons in East Ukraine, I fail to see how this is relevant. General Hodges is in Ukraine Right now, the General of U.S. forces in Europe. We've also spent billions on the Ukrainian military and given them intelligence and things like night vision goggles. The west is contributing far more military aid to Kiev than Russia is too the rebels.

Not trying to play devils advocate, but we (the US AND Russia) did sign an agreement to protect Ukraines sovereignty.

So legally speaking, the US is effectively obligated to bring our military to the table to defend Ukraine, whereas Russia is directly defying an agreement they signed.

 

But personally, that treaty means nothing to me and should have never been signed to begin with.

 

This war is driven by internal political and social-economic unrest. The argument goes two ways.

ITS OFFICIAL!!!

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/02/politics/us-ukraine-lethal-aid/index.html  

Edited February 4, 201511 yr by Perez

ITS OFFICIAL!!!

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/02/politics/us-ukraine-lethal-aid/index.html

It's still being discussed, just as it has been for the past year.

 

ITS OFFICIAL!!!

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/02/politics/us-ukraine-lethal-aid/index.html

It's still being discussed, just as it has been for the past year.

 

Party pooper.

 

 

ITS OFFICIAL!!!

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/02/politics/us-ukraine-lethal-aid/index.html

It's still being discussed, just as it has been for the past year.

 

Party pooper.

 

If you cared to read the first sentence of the article, "The United States is now considering sending lethal aid to help the Ukrainian government fend off attacks from pro-Russian rebels in the eastern part of Ukraine."

 

The US has been "considering" it since the situation began. Nothing has changed. (okay, maybe they're considering it a bit more, but still not committing. )

 

 

If you cared to read the first sentence of the article, "The United States is now considering sending lethal aid to help the Ukrainian government fend off attacks from pro-Russian rebels in the eastern part of Ukraine."

 

The US has been "considering" it since the situation began. Nothing has changed. (okay, maybe they're considering it a bit more, but still not committing. )

 

I'm not sure why we would consider helping a nation that constantly defends SS-Galizien; a Ukrainian SS division responsible for massive war crimes and murders. Not only that, but it was only formed for the sole purpose of fighting USSR after the loss at Stalingrad, when just before, all Slavs were considered inferior and unworthy of the SS. Those motherfuckers even have memorials for those dicks and other Nazi colaborators to celebrate their existence as some proud Ukrainian nationalist achievment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychakiv_Cemetery

http://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/galician-ss-division-327411.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_%281st_Galician%29

http://rt.com/news/155364-ukraine-nazi-division-march/

http://remember.org/ideas/bukovina.html

 

The nation itself seems to be quite fond of SS-Galizien and every Ukrainian source to speak of them seems to always dismiss their atrocities.

 

Not that Russia is much greater place, and Putin is a douche, but I'm actually kinda pro-Russian on this just considering the ammount of blatantly open flailing of Nazi inspired flags and general approval of Nazism on the western side. Plus the fact that if the east WANTS to be part of Russia, who are we to stand in their way?

Oh wait, I forgot. Only Murica is allowed to invade nations in the name of democracy. When Russia does it, it's evil.

 

But maybe it's not so surprising that I support this move, considering I also supported Russia during the 2008 Ossetian conflict.

Expanding on what Foxy said about us bringing in democracy...

Somewhere someone thought that all we need to do is give them money, McDonalds, Starbucks, General Motors, and Apple and everyone will just fall in line. Then they buy bombs, eat burgers, drink our coffee, mount machine guns on the trucks, and detonate the roadside bombs with iPhones... what could possibly go wrong?

Expanding on what Foxy said about us bringing in democracy...

Somewhere someone thought that all we need to do is give them money, McDonalds, Starbucks, General Motors, and Apple and everyone will just fall in line. Then they buy bombs, eat burgers, drink our coffee, mount machine guns on the trucks, and detonate the roadside bombs with iPhones... what could possibly go wrong?

huh?

Oh sorry James... it's a comment on how the USA spreads democracy into countries that don't want it.

More developments:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/09/europe/ukraine-conflict/index.html

 

Its going to happen sooner or later. 

I really hope we don't deploy, would be heaps bad fighting against the Russians.

I don't see how the United States is allowed to practice the Monroe Doctrine, but when another country doesn't want a major military power in their backyard they are evil.

Like it or not, every major power and especially the US gov, thinks according to attitude "If me steal cow, good. If other steal my cow, bad". So far, Im unable to name any exception.

 

It was a mistake on Russian side to fuel conflict in East Ukraine; while the takeover of Crimea was Putin's success, all the East Ukraine has brought him, are sanctions.

 

 

I'm not sure why we would consider helping a nation that constantly defends SS-Galizien; a Ukrainian SS division responsible for massive war crimes and murders. Not only that, but it was only formed for the sole purpose of fighting USSR after the loss at Stalingrad, when just before, all Slavs were considered inferior and unworthy of the SS. Those motherfuckers even have memorials for those dicks and other Nazi colaborators to celebrate their existence as some proud Ukrainian nationalist achievment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychakiv_Cemetery

http://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/galician-ss-division-327411.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_%281st_Galician%29

http://rt.com/news/155364-ukraine-nazi-division-march/

http://remember.org/ideas/bukovina.html

 

The nation itself seems to be quite fond of SS-Galizien and every Ukrainian source to speak of them seems to always dismiss their atrocities.

Let me elaborate on this already filling post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

 

Seems the attitude "If our nazism, whatever, if their nazism, bad", is also applicable to Ukraine. And Russia too.

I don't see how the United States is allowed to practice the Monroe Doctrine, but when another country doesn't want a major military power in their backyard they are evil.

 

Because the US is a global hegemon and has the means via aircraft carriers and foreign military bases to project power into the backyards of those countries. It's as simple as that. The reverse is not true.

Like it or not, every major power and especially the US gov, thinks according to attitude "If me steal cow, good. If other steal my cow, bad". So far, Im unable to name any exception.

 

It was a mistake on Russian side to fuel conflict in East Ukraine; while the takeover of Crimea was Putin's success, all the East Ukraine has brought him, are sanctions.

 

 

I'm not sure why we would consider helping a nation that constantly defends SS-Galizien; a Ukrainian SS division responsible for massive war crimes and murders. Not only that, but it was only formed for the sole purpose of fighting USSR after the loss at Stalingrad, when just before, all Slavs were considered inferior and unworthy of the SS. Those motherfuckers even have memorials for those dicks and other Nazi colaborators to celebrate their existence as some proud Ukrainian nationalist achievment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychakiv_Cemetery

http://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/galician-ss-division-327411.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_%281st_Galician%29

http://rt.com/news/155364-ukraine-nazi-division-march/

http://remember.org/ideas/bukovina.html

 

The nation itself seems to be quite fond of SS-Galizien and every Ukrainian source to speak of them seems to always dismiss their atrocities.

Let me elaborate on this already filling post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

 

Seems the attitude "If our nazism, whatever, if their nazism, bad", is also applicable to Ukraine. And Russia too.

 

The sanctions are hurting europe far more than RUssia. Germany has taken a huge economic hit, and greece is already looking at leaving the EU for Ruissian support. The EU is putting pressure on the US to stop the non-sense. Western europe has to end the conflict by next winter or Putin can get real mean.

 

 

I don't see how the United States is allowed to practice the Monroe Doctrine, but when another country doesn't want a major military power in their backyard they are evil.

 

Because the US is a global hegemon and has the means via aircraft carriers and foreign military bases to project power into the backyards of those countries. It's as simple as that. The reverse is not true.

 

The US military complex is already collapsing on itself. We won't be able to sustain it at 600+ billion dollars a year. China, Russia, Africa, and the Middle East are getting to much to handle. Not to mention that western Europe is rebelling against US control.

 

The sanctions are hurting europe far more than RUssia. Germany has taken a huge economic hit, and greece is already looking at leaving the EU for Ruissian support. The EU is putting pressure on the US to stop the non-sense. Western europe has to end the conflict by next winter or Putin can get real mean.

I knew already that the EU is right now in trouble. But as I found out from US friend, the US has decreased production of oil, in response to OPEC's operation of flooding the market with it. It will resume on full speed once the prices are back to normal. It is most likely that OPEC decreased the prices that way, due to pressure of the US. Now, Russia already is panting hard on those developments, given how reliant it is on fossil fuels. This whole debacle is not only heavily connected to all kind of conflcts, it looks like a conflict itself, one fought with and against the resources and economies. Of course, at the current state, Europe is doomed to lose more than gain, given how it's holding together.

Unrelated, 

 

President Obama has a formal request to do the same thing against ISIS now. This is our strategy? 

Unrelated, 

 

President Obama has a formal request to do the same thing against ISIS now. This is our strategy? 

Repeating the same thing over and over with no results has been American military strategy since Vietnam.