55 replies to this topic

[ihateaaron]

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32213482

 

This thread is probably going to start a shitstorm and i'm really interested in how certain people here who normally defend Americans gun laws react after watching the video in the link above.

 

All I really have to say is, America your gun laws are a fucking joke.

 

Also notice how the idiot starts screaming for him to put his arms behind his back, like all of a sudden he wants to follow protocol, makes me fucking sick.

 

What really ticks me off is the officer immediately attempting to plant evidence on him after killing him so casually.

 

Thank god law prevailed and he's facing a murder charge

So your in favor of cops not having guns? I dont understand how civilian gun control is a factor in a cop commiting a unjust murder. 

 

because humans are not robots, they have feelings, emotions that can change who they are, their morals at any point in time.

 

It's like a time bomb, some will eventually explode, some may never. The possibility will ALWAYS be there.

 

This cop for example, could have been the angel of them all when he first started, over years in service things he'd seen, situations he had gone through would have caused his moralities to change and thus ended up here.

 

We'll probably forever go over this argument (Americans vs other nations who have strict gun laws) and I honestly can't think of a way to solve it that will actually work. But my opinion is that guns should only be used in times of war or for simple sport and not for personal defense.

 

 

You are correct.  Emotions play a huge role in how scenarios play out.  It is impossible to remove them from any scenario, so the best we can do is figure out how to deal with them correctly.

 

I would imagine that this cop was not always a "bad guy".  He probably joined the police force with the intention of making his city a better and safer place.  His experiences most likely changed his perceptions, and from those experiences he made an incredibly poor (in my opinion) decision.  As the facts come out we will get a better idea.  The defense will paint the picture of who they want him to appear to be, and the prosecution will paint him in the light they want him seen in.  He will probably be somewhere in the middle.

 

I will disagree with your last statement that guns should not be used for personal defense.  A person with proper training, practice, and awareness who is carrying a firearm for defense can be the difference between one injury/death and dozens.  The statistics point out that guns were used a reported 2.5 millions times to stop a crime last year.  That's reported.  2.5 million crimes.  That is over 6800 per day used in self defense.  I think that is reason enough to disagree with your statement.

 

The other reason I think that the view is skewed is the statistical number of guns used in crimes.  

 

In 2012, there were an estimated 1,214,462 violent crimes.  There are 300,000,000 guns in America.  That means that less than one half a percentage of all (legally owned) guns in America could have been used in a violent crime assuming that all violent crimes were committed with guns, and that a different gun was used in each crime.

 

It is somewhere near 25% of violent crime is committed with some sort of a weapon.  That is a gun, knife, or other object.

 

Yes there are problems.  Yes there is plenty of room for improvement.  But, I do not agree that taking my guns away makes me safer.  I have used mine on two occasions as a civilian for self defense, or defense of another.  In both cases I was glad that I was able to stop a criminal act.  In the one case I would not have been able to help the other person without it.

[Niels]

It has to be said that generally NOT doing what a cop says is a bad idea. Doing the opposite is even worse. Just get out of the situation and sue the cop afterwards if he stepped over the line.

 

Unfortunately getting redress through lawsuits later is not always possible, cheap, or effective.  Reporting on those that fought civil forfeiture backs this up:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/08/they-fought-the-law-who-won/

[Fox Fire]

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32213482

 

This thread is probably going to start a shitstorm and i'm really interested in how certain people here who normally defend Americans gun laws react after watching the video in the link above.

 

All I really have to say is, America your gun laws are a fucking joke.

 

Also notice how the idiot starts screaming for him to put his arms behind his back, like all of a sudden he wants to follow protocol, makes me fucking sick.

 

What really ticks me off is the officer immediately attempting to plant evidence on him after killing him so casually.

 

Thank god law prevailed and he's facing a murder charge

So your in favor of cops not having guns? I dont understand how civilian gun control is a factor in a cop commiting a unjust murder. 

 

because humans are not robots, they have feelings, emotions that can change who they are, their morals at any point in time.

 

It's like a time bomb, some will eventually explode, some may never. The possibility will ALWAYS be there.

 

This cop for example, could have been the angel of them all when he first started, over years in service things he'd seen, situations he had gone through would have caused his moralities to change and thus ended up here.

 

We'll probably forever go over this argument (Americans vs other nations who have strict gun laws) and I honestly can't think of a way to solve it that will actually work. But my opinion is that guns should only be used in times of war or for simple sport and not for personal defense.

 

This same logic should also apply to politicians and soldiers, but the anti-gun camp doesn't seem to think that's the case.

And I think the opposite. I think the power of firearms should not be limited to the government. Why? Because the majority of war is usually governments waging war on their own people. Not only that, but I don't really differentiate between war and a gangbanger shooting some guy on the street. IMHO, killing people is still just killing people regardless of what label you apply to it.

[Third King]

 

This is tragically hilarious. It's damn useful though, I'll probably do it next time I'm stopped by a cop.

 

I saw this video several days ago and I was appalled. That Officer committed murder and I hope he is found guilty in Court.

 

Most police departments require their Officers to wear audio recorders. So if the Officer was wearing one, I would be very interested in hearing the entire conversation.

 

As for this being about firearms, it has nothing to do with that. This was a messed up individual who chose to use his law enforcement authority to kill someone without due cause. Even without a firearm, the officer could killed him with an expandable baton (which is classified as a less than lethal device) by striking his head repeatedly. A firearm is just a tool, take it away and people will still find ways to murder and inflict harm.

 

In the city I work for, our officers just got a grant to pilot cameras that they will wear at all times. So far, the interesting observation has been that both the police officer and the citizen both act differently when they know they are being video recorded.

 

Also, the data storage for all that footage is ridiculously expensive. So are the open record requests for it

[DeathMerchant]

 

Also, the data storage for all that footage is ridiculously expensive. So are the open record requests for it

 

Indeed it is. Granted non important footage is probably only kept for a short length of time before getting deleted. But I would imagine large cities would need to buy several terrabyte drives every few months, especially if shooting in 720p/1080p.

 

Finding the space to store all these external drives could be problematic in the near future.

[Revan6747]

Sorry if this was mentioned before but my sister-in-laws father is a police officer. He is getting really annoyed with how the media is twisting the publics opinion against law enforcement. Did the guy in question here break the law? yes but why is all we see in the media today a white officer shooting a black person? officers are not out to get black people. My sister-in-laws father has the statistics and most of the killings happening in the black community are blacks killing other blacks. Black lives matter? yes they do, but show some respect for your own race. Whats to say a black officer would not do the same in a similar situation? (not the case in question here but other cases). The media is making it seem like all law enforcement is corrupt. this is simply not the case. there are some bad eggs out there and that is all the media reports on therefore skewing the sheepish public opinion that is the US population. wake up people! the media is not your friend. as far as gun control goes, im with ihateaaron on this one. more guns have been used to stop violent crimes than have been used in violent crimes but that is never covered in the news. Sorry my tangent is done. 

[ccabal86]

Sorry, I have to

 

[Fox Fire]

Kudos to Christopher Keetly. That was pretty funny. XD

[Fox Fire]

Sorry if this was mentioned before but my sister-in-laws father is a police officer. He is getting really annoyed with how the media is twisting the publics opinion against law enforcement. Did the guy in question here break the law? yes but why is all we see in the media today a white officer shooting a black person? officers are not out to get black people. My sister-in-laws father has the statistics and most of the killings happening in the black community are blacks killing other blacks. Black lives matter? yes they do, but show some respect for your own race. Whats to say a black officer would not do the same in a similar situation? (not the case in question here but other cases). The media is making it seem like all law enforcement is corrupt. this is simply not the case. there are some bad eggs out there and that is all the media reports on therefore skewing the sheepish public opinion that is the US population. wake up people! the media is not your friend. as far as gun control goes, im with ihateaaron on this one. more guns have been used to stop violent crimes than have been used in violent crimes but that is never covered in the news. Sorry my tangent is done. 

Dude, I'm white and I've had plenty of bad experiences with cops. Officers aren't out to get black people per say, but they seem to often form opinions before hearing any witnesses, and even then, once they form an opinion it generally doesn't change. If they assume you're up to no good, the attitude they approach you with usually isn't too nice.

That being said, people often form opinions about other people extremely quickly, within second of meeting someone. The way you approach me is the way I'm going to respond. Sadly, police have a bad habit of approaching people in an authoritative, overbearing fashion. But that doesn't mean all cops are like this. Most are pretty decent and some of are even pretty relaxed and friendly. 

[Revan6747]

Sorry if this was mentioned before but my sister-in-laws father is a police officer. He is getting really annoyed with how the media is twisting the publics opinion against law enforcement. Did the guy in question here break the law? yes but why is all we see in the media today a white officer shooting a black person? officers are not out to get black people. My sister-in-laws father has the statistics and most of the killings happening in the black community are blacks killing other blacks. Black lives matter? yes they do, but show some respect for your own race. Whats to say a black officer would not do the same in a similar situation? (not the case in question here but other cases). The media is making it seem like all law enforcement is corrupt. this is simply not the case. there are some bad eggs out there and that is all the media reports on therefore skewing the sheepish public opinion that is the US population. wake up people! the media is not your friend. as far as gun control goes, im with ihateaaron on this one. more guns have been used to stop violent crimes than have been used in violent crimes but that is never covered in the news. Sorry my tangent is done.

Dude, I'm white and I've had plenty of bad experiences with cops. Officers aren't out to get black people per say, but they seem to often form opinions before hearing any witnesses, and even then, once they form an opinion it generally doesn't change. If they assume you're up to no good, the attitude they approach you with usually isn't too nice.
That being said, people often form opinions about other people extremely quickly, within second of meeting someone. The way you approach me is the way I'm going to respond. Sadly, police have a bad habit of approaching people in an authoritative, overbearing fashion. But that doesn't mean all cops are like this. Most are pretty decent and some of are even pretty relaxed and friendly.

I just know that there are bad cops of all colors and creeds, I just hate that the media makes it look like there is a race issue with white cops beating up black suspects. I know there are white suspects that probably get the crap beat out of them by white cops as well as black cops. But seeing a black guy get attacked by a white cop gets ratings :/

[ihateaaron]

You nailed one of the issues right there.  It is in the media's best interest to play these stories over and over because they drive ratings up.  There is no morality involved in the process now, just ratings.

[Samus]

They don't report things like this about America in the news, the only way I and others outside the US are really able to know is through social media.

 

It's more social media that creates awareness of these things than news networks and such, so I wouldn't think there was a specific agenda with news networks

[Fox Fire]

Well there's Vice News who has police killings as their primary featured headline.

[Shahenshah]

You nailed one of the issues right there. It is in the media's best interest to play these stories over and over because they drive ratings up. There is no morality involved in the process now, just ratings.

[Grayshadow]

The news in North America (I don't know about other places) is interested in only one thing and that is selling the story. Truth and morality have nothing to do with it. It is getting so that the news and the tabloids are the same thing.

 

I saw the an interview the cop gave. He says he thought he had drawn his tazer not his pistol. They both have the same laser sight though they are holstered on different areas of the body. Could that be true. Maybe. It is pretty easy to make major errors when under unusual pressure. 

 

I was out hunting moose with a friend a few years back. He had never moose hunted before. I set him up in a good spot and did a drive towards him from an area I knew a moose was in. I heard the moose moving though the brush and heard my friend swearing. When I got to him he was swearing a blue streak because he couldn't understand how he had missed hitting the moose at that close range. I wondered what he was talking about because I had heard no shots fired. I looked at the ground and found 6 unfired rounds on the ground. He had worked all 6 rounds though his lever action rifle without pulling the trigger and hadn't realized it. Even when I showed him the unfired rounds he insisted he had pulled the trigger and that the rifle must be defective. So I put the rounds back in and fired them all off without a hitch. He still insisted he had pulled the trigger. The mind can do really weird things when under stress.

 

I don't know if this person purposely killed another person or just made a tragic mistake. Most likely we will never know for sure. I do think most law enforcement people do their best in a very unappreciated profession. The news is just trying to make a sensation to sell the news not to report any truth or facts. 

 

And Samus social media is the most sensationalist media there is. If it is not sensational it doesn't get hits and doesn't become news. 

Edited by Grayshadow, 25 April 2015 - 04:21 AM.

[Fox Fire]

The news in North America (I don't know about other places) is interested in only one thing and that is selling the story. Truth and morality have nothing to do with it. It is getting so that the news and the tabloids are the same thing.

 

I saw the an interview the cop gave. He says he thought he had drawn his tazer not his pistol. They both have the same laser sight though they are holstered on different areas of the body. Could that be true. Maybe. It is pretty easy to make major errors when under unusual pressure. 

 

I was out hunting moose with a friend a few years back. He had never moose hunted before. I set him up in a good spot and did a drive towards him from an area I knew a moose was in. I heard the moose moving though the brush and heard my friend swearing. When I got to him he was swearing a blue streak because he couldn't understand how he had missed hitting the moose at that close range. I wondered what he was talking about because I had heard no shots fired. I looked at the ground and found 6 unfired rounds on the ground. He had worked all 6 rounds though his lever action rifle without pulling the trigger and hadn't realized it. Even when I showed him the unfired rounds he insisted he had pulled the trigger and that the rifle must be defective. So I put the rounds back in and fired them all off without a hitch. He still insisted he had pulled the trigger. The mind can do really weird things when under stress.

 

I don't know if this person purposely killed another person or just made a tragic mistake. Most likely we will never know for sure. I do think most law enforcement people do their best in a very unappreciated profession. The news is just trying to make a sensation to sell the news not to report any truth or facts. 

 

And Master Samus social media is the most sensationalist media there is. If it is not sensational it doesn't get hits and doesn't become news. 

You cannot mistake a tazer for a 9mm pistol. You just can't, for SO many damn reasons that I'm not even going to name. (Let's keep in mind that these people are TRAINED to use these things.)

So fuck that excuse all the way out the window.