346 replies to this topic

[Lysistrata]

All I have to say is that the republicans are IDiOTS, they are so backwards and make no sense to me.

Hmmm... maybe you can add a few specifics... then we can discuss the things you really didn't think through. Do you really think that calling me an idiot is the best way to get what you want?

 

I call Democrats the "Wouldn't it be nice" party. They live in the land of Oz.

[Duderonomy]

Boehner's resignation was a shocking move, and there's been some talk of a possible scandal behind it. Maybe he did what Hilary should have, resign from political life rather than let all the dirty laundry out into the open. But Hilary has always been far more ambitious than him.

 

It's more likely that he resigned to delay a government shutdown. Basically, nuking Republican organization in Congress from orbit rather than damage the economy. If that's the case, then he really had no leadership left and needed to go, anyway. We're looking at a shutdown in December, which will poison voters against Republicans. They'd be better off laying low until the election is over, but no, we're looking at another 4 years of a democrat in the White House. All because of the Tea Party.

[Lysistrata]

Boehner's resignation was a shocking move, and there's been some talk of a possible scandal behind it. Maybe he did what Hilary should have, resign from political life rather than let all the dirty laundry out into the open. But Hilary has always been far more ambitious than him.

 

It's more likely that he resigned to delay a government shutdown. Basically, nuking Republican organization in Congress from orbit rather than damage the economy. If that's the case, then he really had no leadership left and needed to go, anyway. We're looking at a shutdown in December, which will poison voters against Republicans. They'd be better off laying low until the election is over, but no, we're looking at another 4 years of a democrat in the White House. All because of the Tea Party.

So you're saying Obama would shut down the government to protect taxpayer funded abortions? It's already clearly illegal what Planned Parenthood is doing, and only lacks an FBI investigation before many of them go to prison. Isn't it amazing how completely in the dark most people are about the law? They have been hiding behind birth control and cancer screenings for decades. Can't we find another organization to fund that isn't an abortion mill?

 

This is the fault of an irresponsible, and complicit media. The Tea Party only wants a responsible, honest, and law abiding government under the US Constitution. I don't see how that is a bad thing... unless of course, you're a traitor.

[Duderonomy]

 

Boehner's resignation was a shocking move, and there's been some talk of a possible scandal behind it. Maybe he did what Hilary should have, resign from political life rather than let all the dirty laundry out into the open. But Hilary has always been far more ambitious than him.

 

It's more likely that he resigned to delay a government shutdown. Basically, nuking Republican organization in Congress from orbit rather than damage the economy. If that's the case, then he really had no leadership left and needed to go, anyway. We're looking at a shutdown in December, which will poison voters against Republicans. They'd be better off laying low until the election is over, but no, we're looking at another 4 years of a democrat in the White House. All because of the Tea Party.

So you're saying Obama would shut down the government to protect taxpayer funded abortions? It's already clearly illegal what Planned Parenthood is doing, and only lacks an FBI investigation before many of them go to prison. Isn't it amazing how completely in the dark most people are about the law? They have been hiding behind birth control and cancer screenings for decades. Can't we find another organization to fund that isn't an abortion mill?

 

This is the fault of an irresponsible, and complicit media. The Tea Party only wants a responsible, honest, and law abiding government under the US Constitution. I don't see how that is a bad thing... unless of course, you're a traitor.

 

You'll be using that "socialist" word again soon. Please don't distort words from their accepted definitions. That's how cashiers who have pissall power and no political leanings get called Nazis. Scare words mean fuckall to this argument.

 

The Constitution was intended to be a living document, as shown by the mechanism for amending it. While it definitely was not specific enough, the founders did their best with the understanding that they had. A major reason Southern states have much longer constitutions is that they recognized this drawback and had the time to address it after the Civil War.

 

Over the years, accepted tradition has had different branches of the government interpreting the document to varying degrees. While the Supreme Court's role was not written into the Constitution, it has precedence in English Common Law and was accepted by the founders in the nation's early years.

 

On abortion itself, it's a viable contraceptive method that has been accepted by society at large. This was reflected in the Supreme Court decision. Any argument against it almost always requires a call to religion or religious logic, which the founders specifically separated from the government in an amendment. Life does not begin at conception, and determining anything after that requires far more expertise than either of us have. I'm willing to trust that government officials have consulted enough scientists and ethicsists (NOT religious leaders) to come up with a viable answer.

 

Planned Parenthood is the widest available network of free clinics in the United States. While their founders had horrible ideas founded in their eras, many companies have had horrible ties over the years (like Ford's direct support of the Nazis and dozens of companies that profited from slavery). They have severed their culture from the past and now serve the community to the best of their ability.

 

I have served volunteer security at Planned Parenthood to keep nutjobs from attacking women that only want to protect their health. No one has a right to stop a necessary medical procedures. Childbirth can easily result in the mother's death, and should not be forced onto unwilling women no matter how much you enjoy religious grandstanding.

[Lysistrata]

Please don't assume things about people you don't really know. I'm Agnostic, and don't give a shit about any religious argument about abortion. It's not a form of birth control... aka "a contraceptive method". Those things are used to prevent a pregnancy... not to terminate one. Abortion is a medical procedure to end the life of a baby in the womb. That is pure science, and has nothing to do with anyone's God.

 

I don't care if any women chooses to abort their children, and I don't care why they want to do it. I only care that taxpayers are not paying for it. The law says they can do it, and it also says that Federal funds are prohibited from doing the dirty deed.

 

Yes, the Constitution is a living document. It can be amended. Where things go horribly wrong is when people want to say that it says what it doesn't, and then call it law. What is not specifically addressed in the document is left up to the states. Supreme Court Justices are charged with interpretation of the Constitution. They cannot create new laws by their interpretations. This is the core of many problems we are now experiencing. We have too many people wanting to change the Constitution without amending it. Let's hold a new Constitutional Convention... and see what happens!

[Duderonomy]

I apologize if I assumed you had religious reasons for the abortion debate. As I said, it's nearly impossible to attack abortion in total without resorting to religion. I will treat it as a public healthcare debate, instead.

 

We've had arguments about public healthcare before. Considering the fact that the Constitution itself enshrines a right to life (for citizens, when their life starts), it's hard to understand why someone considers some form of public healthcare unconstitutional when capitalism itself is not even mentioned in the document (note, I support capitalism for most endeavors). Most of Planned Parenthood's services are centered on public health. This includes pap smears, mammograms, and yes, contraception, which prevent far more costly diseases. Cancer caught early is cheaper to eradicate than cancer caught late. STD and pregnancy prevention is far less expensive than miscarriage and medication. Life's beginning has been discussed by people far more specialized than I on such things, and been determined to be X months before normal birth.

 

The main reason U.S. healthcare is fucked is that no one can afford prevention, and only seek help when things have gone so far that it takes dozens of trained professionals to cure them.

 

A lot of conservatives have this myth that everyone can and should be a rockstar CEO making hundreds of thousands of dollars who has no worry about healthcare costs. We need people at the bottom, often more than the people at the top. I've met dozens of idiot MBAs who are just salesmen with a fancy degree. Good ones go into finance or understand that productivity requires loyalty to their workers, as well as their executives.

 

Taxation has been fought hard and long from the Whiskey Rebellion onward, but there are cases when it is necessary. The tax burden for most U.S. citizens is the lowest it's been for the last thirty years (including the vaunted Reagan years). Corporate welfare is causing the deficits, not public welfare. Public welfare is nothing compared to the tax breaks and incentives given to corporations. Just because it's done before tax collection, does not make it any better. We've talked about truly flat taxes, as well.

[Tripl3 Thr3at]

 

Looking at the latest polling data it is definitely clear that Trump has peaked and is falling back. I would expect the race proper to start now.

We can hope. When more pull out maybe someone can cobble enough support to start beating Trump in the polls, then he will really lose his mind. He's at war with Fox News right now because they won't report the crazy online polls that show him far ahead. It's a Republican primary, so they will only report legitimate polls from reliable polling companies. When Trump begins to fall, he will go full teenager on everyone and blow himself up, but that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

Trump is already falling and he can only go further down.  He is actually trying to become much more maturer now (I have noticed in recent interviews) where he is actually giving specifics (e.g. his tax plan which will be a disaster to the deficit).  He is now forced to give specifics because his opponents are gaining ground on substance, while he is still Mr. Entertainer.  In the end, Trump will not be the GOP nominee, and I could see this going to a conventional, establishment Republican like Bush or Fiorina. Trump could conceivably be even more of an asshole to run as an independent and screw it up for the GOP. Clearly he did raise his hand saying he would do this in the first debate.

 

 

Boehner's resignation was a shocking move, and there's been some talk of a possible scandal behind it. Maybe he did what Hilary should have, resign from political life rather than let all the dirty laundry out into the open. But Hilary has always been far more ambitious than him.

 

It's more likely that he resigned to delay a government shutdown. Basically, nuking Republican organization in Congress from orbit rather than damage the economy. If that's the case, then he really had no leadership left and needed to go, anyway. We're looking at a shutdown in December, which will poison voters against Republicans. They'd be better off laying low until the election is over, but no, we're looking at another 4 years of a democrat in the White House. All because of the Tea Party.

 

I don't see it shocking.  It was expected. He just decided not to publicize his intentions until Friday's press conference.  Remember when he said "fears of leadership turmoil"?  He was implying that he lost the Republican leadership in the House.  He failed his base and he failed the institution. Boehner did not appear to be a strong leader, but who really knows what goes on behind closed doors?   However, if the Republicans shut down the Government they will again lose ground with the majority of US voters who are centrists. Neither party wants to make the meaningful cuts to Social Security and Medicare benefits by paying out less and charging higher premiums respectively to those who can afford it, which is a necessary step to cure our red ink free fall.

 

 

3T

[Lysistrata]

I agree with you Trip... but I don't see Bush getting traction. The Bush name is a negative too big, and everyone wants something new. I can see Fiorina and Rubio running away with it. They are too sharp, and too politically savvy to make any major mistakes. Carson is okay, but he's too nice. He'll get lost in the mess somewhere. Trump stepped in a huge pile of shit calling Marco a clown at the Values Voter Summit, and I think people are getting a little fatigued with the name calling inside our own tent.

 

If Trump was not such a celebrity, he would have been toast already. His tax plan is not big and bold enough. It's just the same shit with different numbers, and it will never fly in Congress. We can't afford to take chances on the revenues. We need some form of consumption tax, maybe phased in, as we phase out income tax over a period of years. You never hear anything, about anyone, ever evading their sales tax.

 

It's hard for the media to take down Trump... they created him. He is infamous for being a jerk, so they can't pull a Mel Gibson on the guy. Whatever he says, people expect that from him, and it's why they like him. I believe the people will get tired of Donald. It will probably take a public exchange with Clooney or something. That would be too funny.

[Icewolf]

If Trump was not such a celebrity, he would have been toast already. His tax plan is not big and bold enough. It's just the same shit with different numbers, and it will never fly in Congress. We can't afford to take chances on the revenues. We need some form of consumption tax, maybe phased in, as we phase out income tax over a period of years. You never hear anything, about anyone, ever evading their sales tax

I'll write more when I have some more time but just on this point you might want to look up MTIC fraud.

[Lysistrata]

I'll write more when I have some more time but just on this point you might want to look up MTIC fraud.

 

Haven't you guys been dealing with the VAT tax for a while now? I would be very interested in your opinion. We have State sales tax, and it works pretty smooth. Shouldn't be hard to add a Federal tax on purchasing goods, and get rid of the IRS altogether. We have to make money to live, and anything that makes that inconvenient has to go.

[Shahenshah]

A friend of mine was recently in US, told me that federal systems are complicated and said dude you can goto jail if you can't comprehend and navigate the mazes...he is looking to study and invest and start up a business (Dad's rich, hard earned money tho)

[Lysistrata]

A friend of mine was recently in US, told me that federal systems are complicated and said dude you can goto jail if you can't comprehend and navigate the mazes...he is looking to study and invest and start up a business (Dad's rich, hard earned money tho)

Your friend is correct, and it's why we are all so pissed off at government. It's so easy to get on the dole and be poor, but if you try to get ahead you risk losing everything. It's creating a society of poor people and the uber-rich. The middle class is barely breathing.

[Icewolf]

 

I'll write more when I have some more time but just on this point you might want to look up MTIC fraud.

 

Haven't you guys been dealing with the VAT tax for a while now? I would be very interested in your opinion. We have State sales tax, and it works pretty smooth. Shouldn't be hard to add a Federal tax on purchasing goods, and get rid of the IRS altogether. We have to make money to live, and anything that makes that inconvenient has to go.

 

VAT and sales tax work differently, and have ups and downs. 

 

It generally goes unnoticed unless there is a change in the status of an item or a change in the rate. So when the Chancellor proposed adding VAT to hot pasties, there was nearly an armed revolution. (I exaggarate, but not much). However most people just don't think about VAT much and just treat it as a part of life. This does create the problem that despite being a relatively high tax, people don't necessarily think about the amount they are paying, whereas with income tax you at least directly see the amount. 

 

In terms of revenue, there is a 20% VAT rate in the UK, although there are large exemptions, for example childrens clothing and food are exempt. This generates about 100 billion in revenue for the government.This represents about 20-25% of revenue for the UK government.

 

There are also some oddities focused around it. VAT is frequently the hardest tax for businesses to apply, and can actually restrict business growth as if you break through the VAT registration barrier and have to start paying it (at around £70,000 VAT rateable sales) it pushes up prices by 20%. It is also open to fraud (google MTIC or carousel fraud) and was in the late 2000s losing about 2% of revenue to this fraud.

[Icewolf]

So I spent the day working through the complexities of VAT for making purchases in other European Countries, in particular the procedure for VAT recovery. 

 

Lets me be clear about something. 

 

It is a bastard system and I hate it.

[Lysistrata]

So I spent the day working through the complexities of VAT for making purchases in other European Countries, in particular the procedure for VAT recovery. 

 

Lets me be clear about something. 

 

It is a bastard system and I hate it.

Yes I understand. From what I understand, it's a tax every time something increases in value. They tax cotton. Then they tax the material made from the cotton. Then they tax the shirt that is made from the material.This can get crazy out of control. It's not just a simple sales tax.

[Icewolf]

As I said, both Sales Taxes and VAT have their drawbacks. 

 

 

If you want to make a pro-VAT argument, the logic is this. 

 

With a sales tax you get a cascade. 

 

Company buys Cotton to make shirts, pays 100$, and 10% sales tax. Company manufactures shirts, sells to retailer, charges 10% sales tax. Retailer sells on shop floor, charges 10% sales tax. Assuming manufacturer and retailer make 10$, you get

 

Cotton seller charges 100$ (10$ tax)

Manufacturer             120$ (12$ Tax)

Retailer                    142$  ($14.20 Tax)

 

Customers in this situation are actually paying $36 for what would normally be a $120 worth of shirts, meaning a real tax rate of over 25%. 

 

If you have VAT because each person in the chain can reclaim their VAT the same shirts costs the end buyer $120 plus $12 tax. This means however long the supply chain the tax rate remains the same. 

 

Now for a sales tax you can make a rule that only consumers pay the tax and companies don't. This does eliminate the cascade effect but creates its own headaches as it means each supplier has to determine the nature of the purchaser. Are you buying that laptop because you need a laptop for your office or your home? Are you buying fuel because you are a travelling salesman or going on holiday? Do you need shirts for your company uniform or to look sharp on your holiday? 

 

Now either you are open to fraud (people pretending to be businesses) or you allow businesses to reclaim their sales tax....oh wait isn't that a VAT? Or you accept the cascade, which would unfairly favour importers over domestic producers because it shortens the taxable supply chain if you import. 

 

To be clear, I am not saying that any form of taxation is better than any other. Every form of taxation has benefits, every form has disbenefits. However what I am going to say very clearly is that if anyone ever says that this form is categorically better than that form, or that one version has no drawbacks, that person is a either a liar, or has listened to slogans without actually looking into the deeper consequences.

[Lysistrata]

Third debate tonight on CNBC. I don't think they will be giving Trump center stage this time. Carson has been polling too strong. I really don't know what's going on, but is looks like the establishment will do anything to lower Trump's numbers. I'm sure they believe if he's not number one he'll lose interest and fade. We shall see.

 

I will tell you all what I think after, but I'll be very hard on them tonight for it's time for many of them to drop out. We need a winner.

[Lysistrata]

I'll start this by saying I hate everything NBC... well not everything... Raymond Reddington is the ultimate chaotic-neutral badass. He'll walk in, take off his hat, and say, while smiling, "Spivey! You old dog!... when were we last together? Oh yeah... it was Barbados back in '93... it was Beluga Caviar, Krystal Champagne, and those orange crusted wafers... with those sprinkles... it was just exquisite!... I must return there someday... <pop>". The pop was Reddington shooting Spivey in the face.

 

That's what Republicans did to the CNBC Moderators last night. What was set up as a liberal bomb throwing festival intended to create chaos and embarrass the Republican candidates, ended up being Republican candidates ripping liberal media an entire new asshole, and exposing them as juvenile amateurs solidly in the tank for Democrats... what a panel of baffoons. I loved every second, and it became the best of the debates so far.

 

Marco Rubio - Awesome!

Ted Cruz - Awesome!

Donald Trump - Did good

Ben Carson - Did good

Carly Fiorina - Did good

Chris Christie - Did good

Rand Paul - Did good

Mike Huckabee - Did good

Jeb Bush - Awful

John Kasich - Awful

 

The one that crashed and burned was Jeb Bush. The moderators tried to make Rubio look bad by bringing up his absence in the Senate while running for President. Rubio brought up all the other Senators that have done the same thing, and won the crowd over completely with his answer. Jeb should have known then and there not to press the issue, but could not resist stepping on a land mine... and Rubio took him to school. Jeb is all but finished now.

 

I really don't want to support anyone who believes there is a big government solution to big government problems. This unfortunately, is John Kasich. I don't want to hear a peep from anyone that believes big problems can be managed as they continue to get bigger. I want the problems eliminated... not managed by the government. Kasich is no longer breathing here.

 

The awesome guys listed above will improve their position. The "did good" crowd held their own, but I don't think they will move much. Jeb and Kasich... should just quit while they still have a shred of good reputation.

 

Next debate... Fox Business Network, November 10th.

[onbekende]

So I hear Jeb tried a stab at the french (together with Rubio) and failed completely. Then he got pwned on twitter by their ambassador. HAHAHAHA.

[Lysistrata]

So I hear Jeb tried a stab at the french (together with Rubio) and failed completely. Then he got pwned on twitter by their ambassador. HAHAHAHA.

He compared Rubio's attendance in the Senate to a French work week... he never thought of looking into the attendance records of Kerry, McCain, Obama, or any other Senator that ever ran for President. What a numbskull.