114 replies to this topic

[George Jarvis]

In regards to the Trumpman, it's important to understand that his campaign is really just one big (yuge) Marketing Campaign.

Who knows marketing better than a man who's spent his entire life, and written a book about, how to do such things?

If you look at the media coverage, you'll see that it's going right along with what he laid out in his book "The Art of the Deal"

- Constant Coverage of his outlandish statements/proposals.

   + This shows people that he's leading the debate. He has control of the conversation and it's prompting more people to look into the issue, where they see that there actually IS an issue, even if it's not as big as he says it is.

- This puts him in a position of leverage

   + As with any business negotiation, you want to start high (Outlaw ALL Islamic Immigration) so that you can allow the opponent to "compromise" with you.

- This is brilliant. The Democrats will say something like "We have to ALLOW all Immigration," Trump will say "We have to OUTLAW all immigration," the compromise will be allowing immigration under certain stipulations (maybe background checks and close vetting).

    + In reality, this is what Trump wanted all along, but if he had opened with it, he wouldn't have had any room to "compromise."

- The same principles can be applied to almost (if not) all of what Trump has proposed.

- Realistically speaking, the President isn't the end-all be-all of Government

    + He will have to go through Congress for most of what he has proposed and "compromise"

- With the extremely high amount of support that he's received (yuge), the two Major Political Parties are being forced to address him.

    + We all (Americans) know that the Democrats and the Republicans offer opposing and almost always faulty answers to problems, so the more they try to condemn him, the more they highlight their own faults.

    + Trump gets more support the harder they try.

    + A good example of this is his recent statements about Islamic Immigration; everyone (Dems and Reps) flipped shit over it.

    + Statements of "This will be the end of Trump" were met with extreme Media coverage and country-wide headlines

    + Trump immediately jumps in the polls

 

Realistically speaking, what he's doing is absolutely brilliant. Compare him with other candidates.

- Bernie Sanders is spending massive amounts on Campaigning and has to appeal to niche groups like the College Kids (I'm a College kid) and the BLM movement.

    + If you look at Trump's facebook page you'll see that he hasn't had to use Ad Campaigns like Sanders has; the Media gives him all the coverage he needs to get his message out.

    + By immediately stating his "grand policy" (Free College, etc.) Bernie has opened himself up to prolonged criticism and has put himself into a position where he can't easily compromise.

    + All Trump has to do is make a few statements about how Education is important and meet with Black Ministers and the Media jumps on it so hard that Bernie becomes background noise; Trump is now in a commanding position.

 

- Hillary Clinton is having to do the same thing as Bernie, but she's appealing to the Moderate Democrats, Women, and the LGBT community.

    + Again, by showing her hand immediately, she's exposed herself to prolonged criticism.

    + She's been the target of Republican smear-campaigns over Benghazi, eMails, etc. Which immediately draws her character into question. People don't vote for Politicians they don't Trust.

              ~ Trump goes hard. He says crazy shit, but people would rather have a crazy asshole than a possible criminal.

    + A few well-placed videos undermine her position with the LGBT community because she used to stand against Marriage equality; this also damages her character.

 

- Republicans en masse try to oppose Trump

    + Because of his high ratings and far-reaching statements, the only way they can disagree with his politics is by either:
              1: Going farther. Which makes them look crazy.

              2: Propose more moderate policy which makes them look like sellouts.

    + They can't beat his politics so they have to attack his character, which makes them look like a joke.

 

 

All in all, recent polls show that Trump could easily defeat any of the other Republican candidates.

And the information that I've seen points to him currying more favor throughout the Country than any of the Democratic candidates.

Is he crazy, or is he pulling off the greatest deal in American History?

[Lysistrata]

Okay after all that... I see you guys believe he's a racist and you hate him because he's wealthy.

 

Fair enough, but being against open borders and a desire to keep potential terrorists from entering the country does not make you a racist. You can hate rich people, and distrust the wealthy, but at least he made the money himself doing things. Hillary has about 2 billion dollars at her disposal and got it by promising future favors... much from foreign countries that are not friendly to the USA.

 

Trump is a businessman, and he knows very well he can't get everything he wants, but you have to understand the man to understand his methods. To him, everything is a negotiation, and he begins all his negotiations from the point of getting it all. So he will start with deporting all illegals, and negotiate from there. That way if he gets 80% of what he went for, it's better than the 80% amnesty that everyone else has accomplished. So don't take what he says as what will happen... he's just opening up negotiations. Ask anyone he has done business with for decades if he's a racist. They will tell you.

 

I have heard that Donald Trump has spent a whopping $300,000 on his campaign so far. Everyone else has spent millions trying to get people to hate him. I think it's hilarious. The media talking about Trump adds up to 25 times the talk the other candidates get combined. He's winning for free, and he hasn't even turned his attention to Hillary Clinton yet. She's angel food cake compared to Republicans.

 

Oh yeah... I made more money from 2005-2009 than I ever did in my entire life. George W. was awesome for me. The Real Estate bust was not his fault.

 

EDIT: George Jarvis just laid out a much more detailed comment about the same thing. Brilliant George!

Edited by Lysistrata, 12 December 2015 - 09:55 PM.

[Icewolf]

Banning all Muslims has nothing to do with combating terrorism. It is has everything to do with bigotry. 

 

Mocking a disabled man has nothing to do with good government or policy. It has everything to do with being a disgusting sack of shit. 

 

I would buy "he wants a negotiating position" only if he actually set out a negotiating position. His staff literally cannot explain his policies because he has a headline and no substance. He doesn't think about whats actually a good position or concept, he just shouts stuff. 

 

Any person who wants to actually govern a country would not run on such a platform because they would always have an idea of what they can actually achieve. Trump is just shouting crap that he has no intention of implementing because he has fuck all interest in actually governing a country, he just wants to be President.

[Fox Fire]

Trump is an idiot. That's all I have to say about that.

[George Jarvis]

at least he made the money himself doing things.

 

With a small loan of a million dollars  

But I completely agree with you.

 

It is has everything to do with bigotry. 

 

It has everything to do with appealing to popular opinion;  you wouldn't sell someone a vacuum if you knew they had a perfectly good one at home.

 

Mocking a disabled man has nothing to do with good government or policy. It has everything to do with being a disgusting sack of shit.

 

That goes with the whole "They can't beat his politics so they attack his person" thing.

 

I would buy "he wants a negotiating position" only if he actually set out a negotiating position. His staff literally cannot explain his policies because he has a headline and no substance. He doesn't think about whats actually a good position or concept, he just shouts stuff. 

 

Timing is everything. The election isn't until November. 

The time isn't right... not yet.

 

Any person who wants to actually govern a country would not run on such a platform because they would always have an idea of what they can actually achieve. Trump is just shouting crap that he has no intention of implementing because he has fuck all interest in actually governing a country, he just wants to be President.

 

He's intentionally vague. It's harder to pin down exactly what he's going for and makes it harder to criticize him other than broad "He's a bad man!" insults that don't do anything except get him more attention.

 

If he knew nothing about Politics, he wouldn't be winning.

Quite the contrary; he knows Politics so well that he's winning in a way that no one has ever imagined.

[Lysistrata]

Oh yeah I forgot... dragonslayer51, it's okay man, I still have respect for you

[Robert2424]

Lol. I honestly feel the guy I would want to get in won't get the nomination. Course I'm looking at both Republicans and Democrats. They are mostly junk. I don't much like trump, but I don't see one candidate with the qualifications to be president, with one meeting more the the rest. So honestly I wouldn't want neither Hillery or Trump, but it may come down to those two, and its a shame. Course idk where you'd find the right man or woman for the job (that would want the job), but not where the current ones are coming from.

[George Jarvis]

Lol. I honestly feel the guy I would want to get in won't get the nomination. Course I'm looking at both Republicans and Democrats. They are mostly junk. I don't much like trump, but I don't see one candidate with the qualifications to be president, with one meeting more the the rest. So honestly I wouldn't want neither Hillery or Trump, but it may come down to those two, and its a shame. Course idk where you'd find the right man or woman for the job (that would want the job), but not where the current ones are coming from.

I think it's more likely Sanders will get the Dem nomination.

I haven't been keeping with them too much, but I think Sanders has more support.

[onbekende]

Well in any elections, it doesn't trickle down to who has the loudest shouters behind them but who has the least loathers hating them.

 

Society is build on compromise, you might think this is flawed from an individual standpoint (and you are right, shelfishness is a thing), but this is SOCIETY. You want to be able to continue living with what you decided. A party might get 45% of the votes, but that still means 55% don't want them and if they all band together, they win!

 

Basically the primary's have once again come down to a pissing contest of "who gets the loadest idiots supporting them". Both sides have this issue, heck it aint an issue for the US alone, its just that you are like, "world news".

 

Trump made billions for himself and select few. Grats to him. Does this mean he can run a society? Heck no. A society isn't even run by 1 man however fond you are of that thought. Society is run by the continued support of its inhabitants, of the support of ALL (of close to all) of its inhabitants. If your desire is to run a society just on a simple 50%+1 majority, I wish you to go find an island for yourself.

 

Narcissism isn't a good guide in leadership, it is the guide to victory. The moment a society is going for "a victory", it has lost already. You wish to survive, to thrive, to leave a legacy. A victory means there were defeated. A society build opun the victory of one with the defeat of many is one that is the US. And many desire to get out of that spiral of societal destruction meant to glorify the select few that are "special".

 

Newsflash, nearly all of the republicans have lost what Christianity means, and that is something ironic comming from a largly atheist europe that actually still tries (but fails aswell) to life by the tenants set out by tradition.

 

Again, if you so like to have a "strong" leader, go to Russia, China, North Korea, half of Africa. But please, don't make yet another nation fall into the pit of authoritarian/totalitarian leadership. You already have it bad with a 2-party system, don't make it fall into a flip-flop every 4/8 years between plague and cholera.

[George Jarvis]

if they all band together,

Thing is, neither side has completely banded together. Trump is winning because he's getting support from groups of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents.

I'm an Independent, I would be voting 3rd Party if it wasn't for Trump.

 

Basically the primary's have once again come down to a pissing contest of "who gets the loadest idiots supporting them".

 

The Primaries are won by vote. Trump has the most votes. The "loudest" groups in the USA are groups like the BLM movement who go around looting places.

 

Does this mean he can run a society? Heck no.

The President doesn't run the whole society; we're not a dictatorship.

 

If your desire is to run a society just on a simple 50%+1 majority, I wish you to go find an island for yourself.

 

A President receiving the vote from a whole 50% of Americans is almost unheard of.

 

Narcissism isn't a good guide in leadership, it is the guide to victory. The moment a society is going for "a victory", it has lost already. You wish to survive, to thrive, to leave a legacy. A victory means there were defeated. A society build opun the victory of one with the defeat of many is one that is the US. And many desire to get out of that spiral of societal destruction meant to glorify the select few that are "special".

The thing is, Trump is pushing a Nationalist agenda, which appeals to the Majority of Americans who are sick of seeing what the Left-Wing has done which is basically try to sacrifice our rights in order to accommodate the "special" people who just can't be bothered to care for themselves.

 

Newsflash, nearly all of the republicans have lost what Christianity means, and that is something ironic comming from a largly atheist europe that actually still tries (but fails aswell) to life by the tenants set out by tradition.

 

It's funny that you would automatically associate the Republican Party with Christianity.

Politicians using religion as a basis for support usually fail; we have a separation of Church and State for a reason.

 

 

  Again, if you so like to have a "strong" leader, go to Russia, China, North Korea, half of Africa. But please, don't make yet another nation fall into the pit of authoritarian/totalitarian leadership. You already have it bad with a 2-party system, don't make it fall into a flip-flop every 4/8 years between plague and cholera.

 

It's not about just having a "strong," there are cultural influences at play.

Trump isn't an Authoritarian or a Totalitarian. 

 

Europe is currently drowning itself with Immigrants; Sweden's sexual assaults went up 1400%, Germany is on the verge of collapse, etc. Many Americans look at that and think "damn, I don't want that to happen here."

[Robert2424]

Sanders is OK. I wouldn't mind him. He the best front runner I see. Course the competition is junk.

@bestsy, this is today society. Doesn't mean I agree with or like our society. Our society is on a dangerous path. This much is certain. History is doomed to repeat if we do not learn from it.

[George Jarvis]

Sanders is OK. I wouldn't mind him. He the best front runner I see. Course the competition is junk.

@bestsy, this is today society. Doesn't mean I agree with or like our society. Our society is on a dangerous path. This much is certain. History is doomed to repeat if we do not learn from it.

 

The thing about Sanders is that a lot of people trust him right now. With as much information as there is out there, I don't think he'll be able to maintain his good reputation for 11 Months.

I'm talking about his voting record and his big economics plan.

[Road2Victory]

for me I would have to agree honestly what Dagon has to say because I don't hate him because of his wealth I hate him because of his character and his remarks and what he tries to do. Money can't buy and win the presidential election, not every president who won the presidential election have won cuz of money. Its mainly about the policies and promises that they make and in order guarantee the audience for the people. 

[Lysistrata]

for me I would have to agree honestly what Dagon has to say because I don't hate him because of his wealth I hate him because of his character and his remarks and what he tries to do. Money can't buy and win the presidential election, not every president who won the presidential election have won cuz of money. Its mainly about the policies and promises that they make and in order guarantee the audience for the people. 

Trump has the biggest ego in any room he enters... that is the character you hate, but there is nothing wrong with a big ego, especially in a President. He's admired or hated, but never ignored. That's what you need in a US President. Obama has been ignored for years. I don't even listen to the guy anymore, because everything he says has a political angle, and whatever he's saying means nothing, because Congress will never support him. He's a bad negotiator.

 

He hasn't tried to do anything but stay in the news. What he says, is why he's in the news constantly. Everyone in the country is either saying, "You know something?... he's got a point" or they are calling him every name in the book. This is what he wants. My god, Shah even started this thread from Dubai... just about him. That is his reach, and it is long and wide.

 

I have already told you... he has spent no money on his campaign... just gas for his plane and a limited staff. He isn't running a normal campaign. He doesn't even take donations. He's getting all his air time... absolutely free. He tweets something, and everyone talks about it for weeks. He takes all interviews, he's on every channel, and he's on everyone's mind. He despises lobbyists, and he goes along with no party platform.

 

Remember Jorge Ramos? The guy from Univision that wanted to bring Trump down? He crashed a Trump news conference a while back and Trump said two words to him... "Sit Down!" That was pretty much the last you saw Jorge. I loved it.

 

He wants to do what is best for the country... not everyone is gonna like what is best for the country... just like you guys don't.

[Rusken]

for me I would have to agree honestly what Dagon has to say because I don't hate him because of his wealth I hate him because of his character and his remarks and what he tries to do. Money can't buy and win the presidential election, not every president who won the presidential election have won cuz of money. Its mainly about the policies and promises that they make and in order guarantee the audience for the people. 

 

Sadly, money has bought more elections than what is lead on to be believed. Just ask the Koch brothers, or Tom Cotton (IIRC, a lot of his money came from the NRA).

[George Jarvis]

 

for me I would have to agree honestly what Dagon has to say because I don't hate him because of his wealth I hate him because of his character and his remarks and what he tries to do. Money can't buy and win the presidential election, not every president who won the presidential election have won cuz of money. Its mainly about the policies and promises that they make and in order guarantee the audience for the people. 

 

Sadly, money has bought more elections than what is lead on to be believed. Just ask the Koch brothers, or Tom Cotton (IIRC, a lot of his money came from the NRA).

 

 

 

That goes both ways. Lobbyists buy off both Republican and Democratic candidates.

Which is one of the big turn-ons that people have for Trump: He doesn't accept money from Lobbyists.

[Rusken]

 

 

for me I would have to agree honestly what Dagon has to say because I don't hate him because of his wealth I hate him because of his character and his remarks and what he tries to do. Money can't buy and win the presidential election, not every president who won the presidential election have won cuz of money. Its mainly about the policies and promises that they make and in order guarantee the audience for the people. 

 

Sadly, money has bought more elections than what is lead on to be believed. Just ask the Koch brothers, or Tom Cotton (IIRC, a lot of his money came from the NRA).

 

 

 

That goes both ways. Lobbyists buy off both Republican and Democratic candidates.

Which is one of the big turn-ons that people have for Trump: He doesn't accept money from Lobbyists.

 

 

And neither has Bernie, but oddly enough how media shows so very little of him. While true, I know Hillary does, but seriously, it's come down to the silent one vs. the loud one. Oh well. I guess we'll find out during election time.

[sffc1]

From a statistics point of view, it's very unlikely that any republican candidate is actually going to end up being president. This whole republican primary race is just a reality TV show, and the American media is drawing it out as much as they possible can in order to get ratings. Bernie and Hillary are the only two candidates fit to run the country, and that's going to be reflected in how people vote next year.

With regard to Donald Trump in particular, I'm very disappointed how he's raising hatred against Muslims. It's stepping over the line to demonize a minority. Political leaders have done this all throughout history, and it's never turned out pretty.

[George Jarvis]

  And neither has Bernie, but oddly enough how media shows so very little of him. While true, I know Hillary does, but seriously, it's come down to the silent one vs. the loud one. Oh well. I guess we'll find out during election time.

 

 

Look at what I said above. Bernie showed his hand and has little else to offer, so he was cast aside. It's not as much about who's Louder. 

If it was about who's louder, Bernie would be on 24/7 because he threw his lot in with the BLM movement who, as I noted earlier, are constantly protesting and looting.

 

 

From a statistics point of view, it's very unlikely that any republican candidate is actually going to end up being president. This whole republican primary race is just a reality TV show, and the American media is drawing it out as much as they possible can in order to get ratings. Bernie and Hillary are the only two candidates fit to run the country, and that's going to be reflected in how people vote next year.

With regard to Donald Trump in particular, I'm very disappointed how he's raising hatred against Muslims. It's stepping over the line to demonize a minority. Political leaders have done this all throughout history, and it's never turned out pretty.

 

What's any of that got to do with Statistics?

 

From a Historical point of view, 8 years of a Democratic President means at least 4 years of Republican. 

Also, Statistics show that Trump is currying huge favor throughout the Country. He didn't "raise hatred," he said "we need to step letting them in until we can properly vet them." 

[dagonslayer51]

If he knew nothing about Politics, he wouldn't be winning. Quite the contrary; he knows Politics so well that he's winning in a way that no one has ever imagined.

 

It is not politics it is business.

 

 

Oh yeah I forgot... dragonslayer51, it's okay man, I still have respect for you

Sorry 'bout that man. I was angry at some stuff and this just took the cake. My most sincere apologies, but I still want to state that Trump should not be president.

 

Right now, every candidate is crap. These elections will be some of the worse. I sincerely don't feel that Trump wants to do everything he says for others and for the sake of America. The only thing I can admire from him is his ability in business. And while that might help him with his campaign, if he manages to win, then he'll have a lot to do to learn about politics. Or he could get someone like Cyrus Beene and then everything would be solved. 

 

I don't support Trump in any way and I don't want him to win. It would be a mistake. But as the saying goes, You should be afraid of ignorance, because the ignorants are many and they choose a president.