114 replies to this topic

[Lysistrata]

Fair enough for your opinion Ice... but I am one that believes if you go to someones rally to cause trouble, you should get tossed out on your ass. The violence is coming from the left. The Alinsky bots will keep changing their name... currently it's Black Lives Matter, a while back it was Occupy Wall Street... but they will always do their worst no matter who is President. Are you trying to scare people into not voting for someone?

 

Hey Finster, thanks for chiming in, but why are Republicans always the ones that have to compromise? Democrats have been demanding the Republicans "compromise" for over a century. We're about compromised out. We like our Republic, and calling us names makes you sound like an old hippie/environmentalist/socialist/union man. We love our Constitution, and we'll keep it, thank you very much.

[Finster Baby]

Bullshit Lysistrata.

The democrats and Reagan compromised in the 1980s quite a bit.

And just because I'm a democrat doesn't mean I dislike the Constitution. I just feel the 2nd amendment doesn't give everyone carte blanche to have more weapons than I had in my Army Unit's arms room. Even your hero, Justice Scalia, says the 2nd amendment allows for reasonable controls.

And besides, last time I checked, you Republicans rammed through the Patroit Act, you know, that little law that pretty much shreds the 4th amendment.

And yes, I'm a union man, from a long line of union men, thankyouverymuch. If you guys weren't so busy breaking unions and would give all workers a livable wage, maybe we'd be less pissed at you!

But it's all good. I'll still buy you a drink.

[Lysistrata]

Democrats didn't compromise with Ronald Reagan, they were dragged kicking and screaming by their constituents to return some of what they had stolen many years earlier... the same way Kennedy did it. Reagan began the horrible practice of deficit spending to pull us out of the Carter recession. Clinton loves to brag about actually creating a surplus... but the Republican Congress wrote the budget and forced him to do it. Do you believe he would have done it if the Democrats didn't lose the Congress in '94? Obama cursed Bush for creating 4 trillion dollars of new debt in 8 years... then he became President and created 9 trillion of new debt so far. He's created more debt than all the Presidents before him, combined. It will be over 10 before he's gone. It's criminal.

 

Democrats refuse to solve the problem. Why cut spending when we can just create debt? When it gets to be a problem... they have to let us steal more of their money... right?  Liars and Thieves. Unions have killed industry and lost jobs everywhere they touch. They want the fast food workers next, and if they get their way you will be ordering your Big Macs through an iPad. I say you because I hate Big Macs. The labor force does not set wages... the free market does. You don't like what you're making? Go work for someone else that pays you more, and move up. The more wages go up... the less people are working and everything costs more. That's why a stamp costs 49 cents now when it used to cost a nickle.

 

We already have reasonable gun controls. We can't own a tank, a bazooka, or automatic weapons. The Patriot Act was passed after 9/11 when things were a bit dicey. The Supreme Court is there to make sure all laws passed by Congress are Constitutional. If you hate the Patriot Act you should love Ted Cruz and Rand Paul. Yes Sir... I'm a Conservative.

[Shahenshah]

"The Supreme Court is there to make sure all laws passed by Congress are Constitutional."

So what's all the fuss about regarding Obamacare?

[Icewolf]

Fair enough for your opinion Ice... but I am one that believes if you go to someones rally to cause trouble, you should get tossed out on your ass. The violence is coming from the left. The Alinsky bots will keep changing their name... currently it's Black Lives Matter, a while back it was Occupy Wall Street... but they will always do their worst no matter who is President. Are you trying to scare people into not voting for someone?
 
Hey Finster, thanks for chiming in, but why are Republicans always the ones that have to compromise? Democrats have been demanding the Republicans "compromise" for over a century. We're about compromised out. We like our Republic, and calling us names makes you sound like an old hippie/environmentalist/socialist/union man. We love our Constitution, and we'll keep it, thank you very much.

There is a difference between ejecting someone from a rally and throwing them to the ground and stamping on them repeatedly. Trumps supporters did the latter, not the former. And given Trump seems to enjoy the violence his supporters throw at others (makes him feel powerful I suppose) it seems likely he will continue to encourage it.

Democrats refuse to solve the problem. Why cut spending when we can just create debt? When it gets to be a problem... they have to let us steal more of their money... right?  Liars and Thieves. Unions have killed industry and lost jobs everywhere they touch. They want the fast food workers next, and if they get their way you will be ordering your Big Macs through an iPad. I say you because I hate Big Macs. The labor force does not set wages... the free market does. You don't like what you're making? Go work for someone else that pays you more, and move up. The more wages go up... the less people are working and everything costs more. That's why a stamp costs 49 cents now when it used to cost a nickle.

I don't know how much the US is catching up with the rest of the world, but electronic ordering points for fast food and supermarket self-checkouts are already a thing in the UK. They haven't replaced the human server or checkout person, not because of cost but because people actually don't like using them that much. Also there are various products such as alcohol that can't legally be sold by machine.

However the idea that low wages will stop automation is not something I buy into. These machines are already cheaper than people, but they aren't taking over yet.

However fundamentally you have three choices when it comes to wages.

1) Do nothing and accept that people in full time work are in poverty
2) Raise the minimum wage to the point that full time work lifts someone out of poverty
3) Subsidise wages with some form of tax credit or other benefit paid for through general taxation.

For an individual you can say "well get a better job" to an extent, however that doesn't work with populations. It is simply not possible to tell every single low wage worker to get a better job as the jobs don't exist. So pick one of the above 3.

[Blade 619]

[Lysistrata]

"The Supreme Court is there to make sure all laws passed by Congress are Constitutional."

So what's all the fuss about regarding Obamacare?

Really? You don't know this yet? I'll try to keep it short and as simple as possible... The Affordable Care Act was fast passed without anyone reading it, and without a single Republican in support. They did this because Scott Brown surprised everyone and won Ted Kennedy's Senate seat, and would have killed it when he was sworn in. The bill that was signed into law by Obama was written and passed by the Senate. The House had their own bill that they wrote and passed through the House. It would have normally gone through a series of procedures to clean it all up, take everything out of the bills that was deemed unconstitutional, and combine the two into a finished bill that both Congressional houses can pass and send to the President. This never happened.

 

The bill Obama signed into law was a complete construction of the Senate. This caused the first unconstitutional problem. All new taxes and spending must originate in the House of Representatives. It's called the separation of power. This has caused many provisions in the law to either be delayed, ignored, or totally changed in implementation. Every time a piece of Obamacare becomes real... it's challenged in court.

 

The first of course was the individual mandate to purchase health insurance. It's crazy to think the Federal Government can force you to buy a product from a private company, but that's what has happened. To get support from the doorknobs in the Senate, they had to write it in the bill that it was not a tax... it's a penalty. The numbnuts believed that they have the power to impose a penalty under the Commerce Clause in the Constitution. This did not fly with the Supreme Court, but Chief Justice Roberts bought into the argument that Congress has the power to tax... so they allowed Democrats to lie to us once again.

 

The next was how subsidies are allocated. According to the law, people are entitled to subsidies if their state set up their own exchange. This was supposed to force states to set up their own exchanges, but many states gave the Federal Government the finger... so the Internal Revenue Service actually rewrote their rules to give subsidies to all states, which they can't do. Again the court determined that it was more unconstitutional to deny subsidies to some states, and not others. These are examples and more will come as it all unfolds, but in short it's a shit law and it will collapse.

 

I'm waiting for Republicans to pass something like "The Affordable Housing Act", which requires everyone to purchase a house. It will be then that the ACA will be permanently erased from our history.

[onbekende]

that "The Affordable Housing Act" could sound like social housing for the poor, how evil that is!

[Icewolf]

A fun little statistic I like to throw in whenever American's start talking about healthcare.

The UK government spends the same amount on healthcare as a share of GDP as the American government does. So roughly the same tax burden falls on me to pay for healthcare as it does on a US citizen.

The difference is I get free at the point of use Healthcare out of it.

Go NHS...seriously it works.

[Lysistrata]

A fun little statistic I like to throw in whenever American's start talking about healthcare.

The UK government spends the same amount on healthcare as a share of GDP as the American government does. So roughly the same tax burden falls on me to pay for healthcare as it does on a US citizen.

The difference is I get free at the point of use Healthcare out of it.

Go NHS...seriously it works.

Throw in the statistics of salary and the cost of education and research... then take a poll of everyone involved with providing medical care, surgery, medication, training, medical equipment, emergency services, nursing, professors of every medical school... and on and on... and ask them all if they are willing to take the trillions in pay cuts it would take to socialize medicine in the USA. You would get laughed out of the room. They will never comply with a government pay scale.

 

The ACA was not created to make healthcare affordable... it was created to steal money from people that make money, and give it to people that don't... without a single provision to control the skyrocketing cost we are now mandated by law to pay.

[onbekende]

And the cat comes out of the bag, americans just want to be greedy.

 

 

to easy

[Blade 619]

Why do the Republican's object to the most efficient healthcare provision in the USA?

Also, good on the concept of an affordable housing act... do what Detroit did and give the homeless the empty houses that no one wants.

[Lysistrata]

And the cat comes out of the bag, americans just want to be greedy.

 

 

to easy

What cat? What bag? We're Capitalists!

 

Our Constitution is expertly crafted to allow us to be as greedy and charitable as we wish to be, within the law of course... and allows us to own the guns it takes to keep it that way. A citizen of the USA has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. None of us are "entitled" to a house, a meal, healthcare, or a "living wage"... just because we breathe air. A Socialist will never understand us... you think we're evil... we think you're stupid, so I guess we have to agree to disagree because I really don't care what a Belgian Socialist thinks about American Capitalists. We will find our own way, take care of our own election, and hope the rest of the world can someday catch up to us.

[Blade 619]

The day every country acts like America is the day the human species signs its own death warrant.

[Lysistrata]

Why do the Republican's object to the most efficient healthcare provision in the USA?

Also, good on the concept of an affordable housing act... do what Detroit did and give the homeless the empty houses that no one wants.

It's not just Republicans. I would say maybe 30% of the country is Republican, about the same are Democrat. The ACA is horribly unpopular... up to 60% of us disapprove. The reason is it has made it too expensive for the working class and gives it free to those on the government tit. Those that say they like it are not paying for it or die-hard liberals that can't admit they were wrong.

 

A recent short story... I just went to Washington state to see family and friends for Christmas. My wife and I rented a three story lighthouse on Bellingham bay, and threw a party for everyone to come and see us. Now, west Washington is about as liberal as you can get... I mean I'm outnumbered big time there. My liberal daughter, my liberal son-in-law, my wife's conservative uncle, my wife's liberal best friend and her new liberal immigration lawyer husband are on the top floor of the lighthouse, drinking lots of alcohol, and my son-in-law is trying to explain to me the benefits of Bernie Sanders' policy positions.

 

Well things turned to Obamacare, and my wife's best friend says she hates it. Now, I'm shocked, because she has tormented me for years with her liberalism... like when she comes to visit us in Las Vegas she will bring me a Michael Moore book or something just to fuck with me. She goes on to explain that she pays $568.00 per month with a $6,000.00 deductible, and that's just for her alone... it's tacked onto her credit card every month and she can't afford the 6 grand, so she can't even think about seeing a doctor. Well my jaw hit the floor, and I told her that's insane... that it's stupid to even pay that, just take the penalty and save the money. Well her new husband, that I just met, went nuts because he's forcing her to pay for it. Then I called him an idiot and he left the building... his wife stayed with us.

 

So even liberals hate Obamacare... is that what you call efficient?

 

Are you forgetting that Detroit has been run by Democrats since the dawn of time? They turned it into a bankrupt blight on society. That "Affordable Housing Act" thing would be designed to kill Obamacare... the Democrats would go nuts on it, saying the Federal Government can't force people to give money they don't have to private companies... the ACA instantly dies.

[onbekende]

American liberalism =/= liking Obamacare.

 

 

And the cat comes out of the bag, americans just want to be greedy.

 

 

to easy

What cat? What bag? We're Capitalists!

 

Our Constitution is expertly crafted to allow us to be as greedy and charitable as we wish to be, within the law of course... and allows us to own the guns it takes to keep it that way. A citizen of the USA has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. None of us are "entitled" to a house, a meal, healthcare, or a "living wage"... just because we breathe air. A Socialist will never understand us... you think we're evil... we think you're stupid, so I guess we have to agree to disagree because I really don't care what a Belgian Socialist thinks about American Capitalists. We will find our own way, take care of our own election, and hope the rest of the world can someday catch up to us.

 

Indeed capitalists, but strangly religious ones that throw out all the religious dogma that would otherwise prevent you from greedyness. Ever heared of usury?

 

Your constitution wasn't made to make you greedy, nor charitable. Its a nice piece of paper of a few people pondering about the future of themselfes and their society. This doesn't mean a stringent adherence to it is required, or otherwise I am going to nag once aain over the bible to you

 

Your "liberty" goes as far as the world but your neighbours can't even come near your fence, hows that for equality?

 

I don't think you specifically are evil, I find pure capitalism evil (as I wuld find and -ism being followed to the letter).

 

I am not a socialist in belgium funnely enough, I am just a conservative in the sense of the word, meaning that the present should be kept and the future improved. American politics is sliding into "the present is horseshit and my future will be what you disliked in the past", I will follow Blade in his desire to stay clear of "your future".

 

And lastly, your elections are indeed more meaningfull to me then visa versa, for the simple reason that you guys are the USA. Same way I take interest in who's running the EU at large, Russia, China and other multi-national organisations with worldwide ripples in policy effect.

[Shahenshah]

"The Supreme Court is there to make sure all laws passed by Congress are Constitutional."
So what's all the fuss about regarding Obamacare?

Really? You don't know this yet?

well, I do have a certain level of interest in what happens in your politics to the effect how it would translate to policy and actions that affects my country and the region.

To be honest I still haven't grasped my way around the whole Obamacare.thing, interesntgly I do have some work experience in your medical industry (kinda data consultant, making sure doctors efficiently get paid for the HCFA forms submitted in most efficient manners)

[Lysistrata]

Well Obamacare is about the same as the Federal Government requiring every American citizen that breathes air to buy a Porterhouse steak every night for dinner... because we all must eat. Don't worry if you can't afford it because we have all these people that make money that will pay for your steak for you. The beef companies are having the time of their lives, because now it's a law that every living citizen now must, by law, buy their product... "Golly Gee Morgan! How high can our prices go?".

[Shahenshah]

So they don't have choice between steak and say salad?

[Lysistrata]

So they don't have choice between steak and say salad?

Nope... you have to buy the steak even if it's against your religion to eat beef.