462 replies to this topic

[Decide R Inchief]

 

Hi Niels! Bill Clinton did welfare reform and signed budgets that contained a surplus because he had a Republican controlled Congress that wrote and passed them. He never would have done any of that if he didn't lose all of Congress in '94. Remember... he didn't have sex with that woman!

 

I have said this before... Everything Trump says he will do is the responsibility of the Federal Government. Get it? That's what they are supposed to spend money on. Mexico will pay for the wall... and I believe him. There are trade agreements with Mexico, and Trump will get the money to pay for the wall. For anyone just to say he can't, or won't, is pure speculation at this point. Wouldn't you love to spend the next four years, waiting for him to not do it, so you can say you were right? I love you man!

 

Yes, the fact that there was shared responsibility by Clinton, a Republican congress, and general macroeconomic trends is why I called it "the surplus under Clinton" not "the surplus because of Clinton."

Okay - so defense spending is a federal responsibility - no argument there.  But, does that mean we should spend eleventy-zillion dollars on it?  No - because that number (if it were real) would bankrupt the country.
So, I will ask once again - are you serious about addressing the federal debt or not?  And if it were determined that raising taxes to do so was needed, would you advocate for such?

(Or do you not actually care about the debt, and just say you do, while insisting that we need more spending on aircraft carriers, etc.?  Fun fact: government spending on armaments is like any government spending - it adds to the debt you sometimes rail against.)

 

Spending on the military-industrial complex (a term coined by a Republican who must be sickened at the sight of his party today) can only be viewed as welfare in another form.

[Decide R Inchief]

Bush sent everyone that files a tax return a rebate check as his "stimulus"... yes they went out to Democrats too. I guess you believe anyone who files a tax return is wealthy. Obama on the other hand, wrote a trillion dollars worth of checks out to his supporters and special interests as his "stimulus". I was against all of it. Unless of course you are talking about the Bush tax cuts, which is not a "giveaway"... a tax cut is stealing less of other people's money. You guys always think it's your money.

News Flash! The government needs revenue to operate. Your above statement ignores the Bush cuts gutting of the tax rate at the top tier of the bracket without any spending cuts to offset the lost revenue. in fact, he lied to the American people in order to start an off-the-books war to get WMDs that didn't exist.

The effective tax rates on the very top brackets have been among the lowest in 60+ years with the effect of driving deficits to record levels. To listen to the rhetoric from people like you it would seem as if the rates are higher than they've ever been!

[Lysistrata]

Sorry Niels, the answer to your question is yes. I have always been in favor of a national sales tax, or even a VAT, over an income tax. Scrap the notoriously criminal government thugs known as the IRS, and tax money when it's spent, not when it's earned. These people have created a system that makes criminals out of people for making money, and not paying tax on it. Allow people to make as much money as they want... or can... and then tax them when they buy things. It's all up front, no tears, no arguments. That's my position.

[Decide R Inchief]

Never mind the fact that sales taxes are hopelessly regressive.

[Lysistrata]

Never mind the fact that sales taxes are hopelessly regressive.

Never mind the fact that the richer you are, the more stuff you will buy.

[Decide R Inchief]

 

Never mind the fact that sales taxes are hopelessly regressive.

Never mind the fact that the richer you are, the more stuff you will buy.

 

Never mind the fact that your argument can be refuted with a 5 second google search, or a 10 minute high school economics lesson.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax

[onbekende]

The Pope can pass judgment on whoever, or wherever, he wants in the Catholic Church. Donald Trump is not Catholic.

Here is the entire quote on video Ice... 0:20-0:35

He is the Roman Catholic highest authority if you want to tie down on spiritual devide. Doesn't stop him from having a profound notion of Christianity as a whole.

 

 

Never mind the fact that sales taxes are hopelessly regressive.

Never mind the fact that the richer you are, the more stuff you will buy.

 

The more stuff their company buys with tax detuctable loopholes

 

That said, I do prefer a more spending tax vs income tax, but in europe we are trying to go for a polluter tax above a spending tax. (not that you would know what pollution is)

[Lysistrata]

 

 

Never mind the fact that sales taxes are hopelessly regressive.

Never mind the fact that the richer you are, the more stuff you will buy.

 

Never mind the fact that your argument can be refuted with a 5 second google search, or a 10 minute high school economics lesson.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax

 

Never mind the fact that I don't need a 5 second Google search to know that Progressives have never been in favor of a tax increase that they themselves are required to pay. If I make 50k per year, it's very easy for me to cast my vote to raise taxes on anyone that makes over 80k per year... but if suddenly they are voting to raise their own taxes as well... maybe they will be more careful about it?

[Decide R Inchief]

 

 

 

Never mind the fact that sales taxes are hopelessly regressive.

Never mind the fact that the richer you are, the more stuff you will buy.

 

Never mind the fact that your argument can be refuted with a 5 second google search, or a 10 minute high school economics lesson.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax

 

Never mind the fact that I don't need a 5 second Google search to know that Progressives have never been in favor of a tax increase that they themselves are required to pay. If I make 50k per year, it's very easy for me to cast my vote to raise taxes on anyone that makes over 80k per year... but if suddenly they are voting to raise their own taxes as well... maybe they will be more careful about it?

Show me where I said I don't want to pay my fair share.

 

I have said that I have an issue with people in the highest tax brackets bitching about their insanely high taxes when I have already shown you their effective tax rates are lower than they have been in decades. Warren Buffet himself has pointed out his effective tax rate is lower than his secretary's, who I can assure you makes FAR less than he does.

[Lysistrata]

Show me where I said I don't want to pay my fair share.

Maybe I just assumed you are a Progressive? I really don't know of anytime you said you are a Socialist either... If I am wrong about this, I apologize. But on the other hand, if I am right about that... your definition of fair is you get everything free and rich people pay for it all. Your definition of fair is you pay nothing while we take 70% of their income, 90% if you support Bernie.

 

Business exists to make money. You believe business exists to employ people. You are wrong about this. From what you say in these threads, the worst people on the planet is everyone that makes more money than you. If you ever get what you want, and rich people are taxed to the point they are no longer rich... it doesn't make you rich... it makes everyone unemployed. Just sayin'

[Decide R Inchief]

 

Show me where I said I don't want to pay my fair share.

Maybe I just assumed you are a Progressive? I really don't know of anytime you said you are a Socialist either... If I am wrong about this, I apologize. But on the other hand, if I am right about that... your definition of fair is you get everything free and rich people pay for it all. Your definition of fair is you pay nothing while we take 70% of their income, 90% if you support Bernie.

 

Business exists to make money. You believe business exists to employ people. You are wrong about this. From what you say in these threads, the worst people on the planet is everyone that makes more money than you. If you ever get what you want, and rich people are taxed to the point they are no longer rich... it doesn't make you rich... it makes everyone unemployed. Just sayin'

 

You're certainly presumptive in telling me all about what I want.

 

I'm still waiting for you to show me where I said anything close to what you're suggesting above.

 

Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

Otherwise, I'll accept the apology and we can talk about the things I said instead of what you think was said.

[Lysistrata]

 

 

 

 

Never mind the fact that sales taxes are hopelessly regressive.

Never mind the fact that the richer you are, the more stuff you will buy.

 

Never mind the fact that your argument can be refuted with a 5 second google search, or a 10 minute high school economics lesson.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax

 

Never mind the fact that I don't need a 5 second Google search to know that Progressives have never been in favor of a tax increase that they themselves are required to pay. If I make 50k per year, it's very easy for me to cast my vote to raise taxes on anyone that makes over 80k per year... but if suddenly they are voting to raise their own taxes as well... maybe they will be more careful about it?

Show me where I said I don't want to pay my fair share.

 

I have said that I have an issue with people in the highest tax brackets bitching about their insanely high taxes when I have already shown you their effective tax rates are lower than they have been in decades. Warren Buffet himself has pointed out his effective tax rate is lower than his secretary's, who I can assure you makes FAR less than he does.

 

I don't really hear any rich people bitching about high taxes. The only people I hear are Progressives and Socialist bitching about how rich people don't pay enough. I think the Progressives and Socialists, are wrong. I see no reason to argue about it, I have made my position as clear as I can, and I'll never change my mind. There is one way I have offered... nominate Bernie Sanders, we'll nominate Donald Trump, and we can have the great Socialist vs. Capitalist election. I'll support the winner... will you?

 

I think you guys talk a big game, but I don't believe you even trust in yourselves enough to ever go all in.

[Decide R Inchief]

I'm not interested in your talking points and evidently that's all you've got.

 

Enjoy your thread.

[DeathMerchant]

Middle class people I know who work insane amounts of overtime hate getting pushed into higher tax brackets. But they do it because they want to work hard and support their family, or give them self a better life. Some do it for their retirement fund. Should hard working people be taxed into an oblivion? One of my coworkers almost doubled his income last year because of overtime, and he got hammered with taxes. Its almost to the point of its not even worth it. And that is what Progressives really want. Everyone to be on the same level. No incentive for working hard, regulate everything, high taxes to prevent upward financial movement, and promise everyone free crap that will manifest itself out of thin air even though we all know nothing in life is truly free. Someone, somewhere, is paying for it. You want to succeed in life, then put yourself out there. Acquire a demanding skill, do something unique, relocate to an area with high job demand. Don't take the easy way out and expect the Democrat handout. Do hard things and trust me you will be happy you did. Because even if you feel like you didn't get anywhere. You will feel good knowing you gave it your all. And the experience you learned will last a lifetime. It is amazing though how many people don't take that advice. I have referred an absurd amount of people for employment in two separate fields where you are making anywhere from $50k-$65k a year. No degree needed and both companies are willing to hire almost anyone regardless of past work experience or a criminal history. But yet these people say they don't want to do that because they want a fun job. They expect the perfect job to fall right in their lap without them lifting a finger. They want their weekends off, Fridays off to party, to work short hours. Its like come on, grow up and get your life together. And this is all from people who are in their mid 20s. I've met teenagers still in high school who would jump on opportunities like that if they could legally work full time. Its sad to see so many people give up a good and happy life because all they want to do is live off the tax payers and play video games, do drugs, and get drunk.

[Lysistrata]

My day has come. My wife and I will be going to the Nevada Republican Caucus this afternoon. I really don't know what to expect, Nevada is fairly new to the caucus system, there is no reliable way to poll this state, and it greatly depends on how many people actually show up.

 

A caucus is a different animal than a primary. In a primary, all you do is walk in, vote, and leave. In a caucus, you show up, check in, herd in like cattle, divide up into neighborhoods, sit down at tables, talk candidates and politics with all the people you live around, sometimes argue, and then write a name on a piece of paper and leave. It takes around 3 hours, so turn out is generally very low.

 

I hear Donald Trump has a big advantage here, and I won't buck the majority very hard because I see a lot of advantage to Trump as President. There is a lot to not like about Donald Trump, but all the things there are to not like him for... are probably very good qualities to have as President. Here are my thoughts:

 

Ben Carson: Great doctor, brilliant mind, wisdom beyond his years... weak and too much of a nice guy... No

 

John Kasich: Experience, great Governor for Ohio... would have been a good President in the 90's, but not today... No

 

Ted Cruz: Staunch Conservative and an iron will... greatly disliked by Congress, and wields dirty politics like a sword... No

 

Marco Rubio: On the surface, the best candidate... I don't know what he will actually get done past killing Obama's Executive Orders. These people love to say they will do all these things, but once they get in the chair it's a different story... Maybe

 

Donald Trump: Extremely successful, complete determination, absolutely driven, results oriented, fiscal Conservative, social Moderate, job creator, supports military, strongly against illegal immigration, hates terrorists, hates Obama, hates the Clintons, hates Socialism... hey what can I say, I like everything about this guy... Maybe

 

I say maybe, because if the room is too scared of him, I have no problem supporting Rubio... but I don't think that will happen. Us Republicans are not scared of Democrats. The one thing that I love about Trump is every day my email is full of all these guys begging me for money... except him. I have never been asked to donate money to Donald Trump. That says a lot about him. Politicians always tell you that they will do everything, but little actually gets done. I believe Trump will get these things done. The law to build the wall was signed in 2006 by George Bush... it was never done. I have always said that Donald Trump may not be the President we want... but he is the President we need. If my state wants Trump... I will support his nomination.

[Icewolf]

I would like to return to the point that Trump is not fiscally conservative. He wants to follow reagonomics-the real reagonomics, not the type that people like to pretend he followed, but the reality of massive, massive, deficit spending.  Its one of the interesting things about this election from an outsider that whilst Obama has been attached constantly and been in a constant battle with the US congress over spending, and constantly attacked for spending too much, the Republican field in the Presidential election somehow makes the democrats look like fiscal hawks. 

[Shahenshah]

Lol, love how Republicans blame Obama for bailing America out of the mess created by Republicans.

When Obama bails out, its socialism, when Bush bailed out Wall St, it was 'necessary' :-)

I'm not interested in your talking points and evidently that's all you've got.
 
Enjoy your thread.

Having a discourse with an extremist conservative is akin to have a debate with wall, take heart, we've all been there. Let them elect Trump, it will bring more balance of power to the world like how Bush did it.

[Lysistrata]

All I can say is... wow. It was so crowded, the line to get in was 3 wide and a block long. I have never seen a caucus so... populated. It was truly a great day. After we left here, we had a really good dinner... Mexican food... I had a Tacate and my wife had a top shelf Margarita. We then went to the caucus, a half hour early, and the parking lot was packed. We looked at each other, smiled, and said at the same time... "Holy Shit!"

 

We were surrounded by thousands of the finest people in all of Nevada. Two beautiful blonde girls, about 18 years old, walked up to our table and said "We're here to vote for Trump... What do we do?" I said really? and one looked at me, smiled and said, "You think we would be for Sanders? If he's elected we're moving out of the country". That made my night.

 

Taking some words I heard from Dan Rather about 12 years ago... Donald Trump rolled through Nevada like a big wheel through a Delta cotton field. It wasn't even close my friends...

 

Donald Trump - 45.9%

Marco Rubio - 23.9%

Ted Cruz - 21.4%

Ben Carson - 4.8%

John Kasich - 3.6%

 

No one is leaving the race. So, Donald Trump will be rolling into Super-Tuesday next week, where 13 states will be decided... unchanged, unhindered, and unaltered from last night. No one will fall on their sword in an effort to stop Trump. I believe they know it won't do any good. Their hope is for Rubio to beat him in Florida, Kasich to beat him in Ohio, and Cruz to beat him in Texas... and somehow, deny him enough delegates to clinch the nomination. I don't believe this strategy will work.

 

With a solid second in Iowa, and 3 straight states won... I believe Donald Trump is the Republican nominee.

 

After leaving the caucus, my wife and I went to The Orleans for some down time. We bellied up to the bar, got a drink, and started playing some quarter Keno machines... and a half hour later, walked out with $400.00 more than we walked in with. We then just went home and watched the results come in... it was a really good day.

[Shahenshah]

Good one! Great you both had fun times. Sad about the 2 chicks tho.

[Lysistrata]

Delegate Count This Week

 

Danald Trump - 81

Ted Cruz - 17

Marco Rubio - 17

John Kasich - 6

Ben Carson - 4

 

Needed to win the nomination - 1,237