bah, I want my moon free from war orphans thank you very much!

 

"As long as you got an unemployed but work-willing person in your country, you basically have to much immigrants." This would be the ultra-nationalistic view some have (not saying you have it). But then we would be going all against free-will and stuff, so lets ignore such ramblers

 

Most of these "fortune seekers" are indeed turned back or they sneak off into illegality, by which mostly the non-profit and charitable causes "keep them alive" so to speak. I don't think you got several 100k fortune seekers in your country, I doubt even the total of the EU can claim such a number. Not withstanding that any number might be 1 to many. We sadly can't find a proper and correct method of stating who is welcome and who isn't. Its a policy nightmare, made worse by a further shrinking of the world in terms of distance.

 

I said "change", as in just the big things, for the rest we got these talkative fellows called "politicians". Anything worthy of a referedum to me needs that +50% of population.

So, back to the same old, same old. We have a verdict in the civil case, which Boehmermann predictably lost: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36317006

 

Waiting for the regresssive leftists to post how this court decision was a "good compromise", a "golden middle road", etc,etc.

 

The criminal case is still being investigated, I wonder what this verdict will be.

Edited May 18, 201610 yr by ccabal86

He isn't allowed to rehash the same lines over and over again. In no way was his original poem struck down or viewed as being against the law.

 

Satire is for a moment fun, rudeness goes on in time.

 

The court basically stopped him from continued personal attacks with slanderous words. And while a public figure should be mandate to have a thicker skin, it doesn't mean you got continue shooting arrows at them for just giggles.

 

Perhaps freedom of speech now also needs to envelop freedom of continued misuse and untruths?

If you go into public service, you should bear it, my regressive leftist friend

Up until a point, public servive does not make one a mindless robot. And while Erdogan might actually like the attention above the possible humiliation he could feel from said words, it doesn't mean we can't draw a line meant to encompass all. We can't expect the justice department to go to each victim with 5 psychyologists and find out if they have been "harmed" by the slander aimed at them. We shall use a judge's standard of judgement to make the line the same for all so equality is preserved.

And once again, we end up defending the dignity of dictators and strongmen. If only the court was so brave to stand up for the dissidents Erdogan has thrown into jail, but alas. Comedians are easy pickings though.

He isn't allowed to rehash the same lines over and over again. In no way was his original poem struck down or viewed as being against the law.

 

Satire is for a moment fun, rudeness goes on in time.

 

The court basically stopped him from continued personal attacks with slanderous words. And while a public figure should be mandate to have a thicker skin, it doesn't mean you got continue shooting arrows at them for just giggles.

 

Perhaps freedom of speech now also needs to envelop freedom of continued misuse and untruths?

If I were him I would immediately write another poem about Erdogan and recite it through a loudspeaker on the street. Seriously though, I actually would.

And once again, we end up defending the dignity of dictators and strongmen. If only the court was so brave to stand up for the dissidents Erdogan has thrown into jail, but alas. Comedians are easy pickings though.

 

Other country, other laws. We are defending our own dignity by using "equality under law", perhaps you could come to Belgium and file a complaint against him if you so desire, it is possible. Won't get you far as you aren't personally in trouble, perhaps get some turkish expats to come do it.

 

 

 

If I were him I would immediately write another poem about Erdogan and recite it through a loudspeaker on the street. Seriously though, I actually would.

 

and nothing stops him from doing so...

Other country, other laws. We are defending our own dignity by using "equality under law", perhaps you could come to Belgium and file a complaint against him if you so desire, it is possible. Won't get you far as you aren't personally in trouble, perhaps get some turkish expats to come do it.

 

Cold day in Hell before I go to Belgium, but that's completely irrelevant, because we're talking about a German court, not a Belgian one

indeed, was just mentioning that we got some laws in place were you can basically indict anyone as long as they did something to them punishable by our law. Hardly used as you might imagine but some Congolese people are using it against basically any Congolese politician left standing

We are yet again at an impasse, as I believe that those that go into public service, especially politicians, should not be immune to being called ugly names. It's a form or criticism, as are throwing tomatoes (this is actually something our constitutional court once ruled on). Since you are not actually harming the person (you're not throwing rocks) and if you're not calling for violence, there is no reason to restrict it. In fact restricting it in the first place is quelling free speech.

 

Since you fundamentally disagree with this principle, I don't think further discussing this makes any sense.

Edited May 19, 201610 yr by ccabal86

I am guessing my American brothers forget that we have laws hat allow people to take others to court to sue them for millions and put the offending party in jail for "slander and defamation", basically if you hurt someone's feelings by saying bad and untrue things about them, they can take yu for all you're worth. Also strange that the majority of those cases are the conservative wing of the American political parties.

 

Now, I'm all for freedom of speech, but you might want to check if your own camp is doing the same thing you are demonizing another for.

I'm not American, nor am I in the conservative camp. And while I agree that individuals, especially non-public individuals need some sort of legal protection against slander and defamation, this is an entirely different case.

 

As a public figure, and especially a politician Erdogan (applies to everyone, not just him), should be judged in a different manner. While I agree that it should be illegal to slander (without basis) even politicians with the specific intent of hurting their image, this poem was a reaction and criticism (albeit harsh) to his authoritarian policies and  tendency to personally go after dissidents for the smallest of offenses.

 

Furthermore, it was a comedic act and therefore an artistic performance, which should be treated as an exception to the rule.

We are yet again at an impasse, as I believe that those that go into public service, especially politicians, should not be immune to being called ugly names. It's a form or criticism, as are throwing tomatoes (this is actually something our constitutional court once ruled on). Since you are not actually harming the person (you're not throwing rocks) and if you're not calling for violence, there is no reason to restrict it. In fact restricting it in the first place is quelling free speech.

 

Since you fundamentally disagree with this principle, I don't think further discussing this makes any sense.

 

Who made them (public figures) immune to being called out? The court decided that further banging on the same nail would just entail that it is slander (or whatever you might call it, haven't seen the verdict itself and my knowledge of german wouldn't help anyway ). Heck Germany and other nations are currently trying to ditch those archaic (and not actually used) laws of "don't insult foreighn ally dignitary X".

 

As for your example, I wouldn't mind a court ruling against someone standing on the streets before parliament each day for a year with a batch of tomatoes. At some point you go beyond freedom of speech and into the realm of herassment.

 

 

As for US slander laws, unsure how they match up. But you guys should feel compelled to stop shaking millions from a person just cause, you people have like an unwritten rule that the smallest settlement is a 7 figure number...