926 replies to this topic

[Preston]

Feels like a long time since Sunday noonish when I last posted... several pages of new content, a wagon that has reached half-majority, and some longer posts from Ali. Oof, this will take a bit to go through...

I'll begin with a point that iSocialism calls out which I don't want to be misunderstood:

Also AbT be careful of asking people to stop voting, because you suspect someone else. Preston hates that.

I have no problem for people asking to delay finishing the day if it's in danger - i.e. where another vote or two short-circuits the rest of the day. The problem I have consistently had is when people tease an information reveal - an implied roleclaim without following through, an "I have an argument but I'll post it later", etc. Either you are prepared to dump your thoughts right then or you aren't. I don't see any form of benefit being derived from posting in that way. The exception to this would be Ali's prior case where he had to go and physically could not sit there to finish typing out the post and had to continue later.

Ali had a perspective on this in the first of two longer posts since my last:

@Preston: I'm sorry you don't like it, but it all serves its purpose. I could spit out everything I know on my very first post in this game, but I've decided to wait. Unaware scum that's making mistakes is much better than the one who know he's hunted. And I got a bit more material thanks to that. And now, assuming I'm correct, scums are experiencing anxiety and therefore they may slip and make some more mistakes.

If you want the scum unawares of what you're doing and want to observe people that you suspect, that is perfectly valid - however I still think half-information teases do that strategy a disservice; better to drop your thoughts at once instead of trickling them out. Sowing confusion deliberately is not going to affect only the scum you're hunting, it will also affect townies who will start viewing your 'to be continued' posts with suspicion. That's my perspective on the matter, anyway.

On a separate note Ali breaks down the 'free' no-lynch concept due to the even number of players. It is an interesting observation - either we get four mis-lynches starting today, or we get four mis-lynches starting tomorrow if we no-lynch today - assuming the figure of 5 scum that has been repeated in this thread a few times by now. There may be some merit to it, and this is a wrinkle to the standard no-lynch debate that is different from the norm. However I think the information we've gotten thus far today is also valuable, from people acting as though no-lynch is NOT going to happen.

To finish with Ali's posts before moving on to others, here is his second long post - in which he points to me as a possible scum companion to legoboy, if I read that correctly:

Normally I'd vote on Rafay myself. However I don't want him to get 9 votes and end D1 prematurely - there's a lot to talk about.

...

I don't know if Lego is a scum or not. I suspect him being one and believe he's the best lynch candidate. Not only because he acts scummy, but also because he might be our gate to other scums. I think I see some patterns that shows possible connections and damage control other scums are doing in order to save Lego's skin. 
 
So who might be Lego companions? I say his possible team might consist of Preston, 1ceCream, KevinH...I'm not sure who'd be the last one (though maybe, maybe Mandarijn - he's not giving out those usual good vibes).

Looking at this much first before launching into your detail analysis of me - I can't help but see a little contradiction on there where you say you'd normally vote for Rafay, but then say Lego is your best lynch candidate? Rafay doesn't even make your potential scum list of Lego, Preston, 1ceCream, KevinH and maybe Mandarjin. Even after your 'free no lynch' numbers, does Rafay's inactivity override your stated scum list? Obviously not since you end by voting for Legoboy, but then why start off by saying you'd join on Rafay?

That aside, let's look at what he has to say about the theory of Legoboy's potential scum companions, which seems to hinge on his belief that Legoboy has established himself as scum thus far:

First suspect: Preston
- I'm seeing myself from the previous game in his behavior. All those calls for activity, encouraging people to talk (post #34, #86, #101) - I did the same thing previously because that's the easiest way of pretending to care while actually not caring. Fun fact is that Preston did not do that in the previous game. To describe it, he felt then like a war correspondent and now he feels like car salesman.
 
- He knows Lego's strange behavior can't be denied, so he admits it yet at the same time tries to dismiss it (just the way I did on previous game).
          Post #63: "He's (Lego) hitting all the normal scum-hunting checkboxes, but doing it a little early on day 1 for it to mean anything... however I do like that we're getting some actual conversation out of this"
          But instead of having any conversation he posts this (#86): "Legoboy made early waves trying to be very proactively pro-townie, albeit perhaps trying a little hard."
          This is quite inconsistent: being proactively pro-townie while hitting all the normal scum-hunting checkboxes.
          After I made my first post on Lego, he responds (#124): "However Ali does sum up a lot of the thoughts we've been having about lego quite succinctly", yet he does nothing more about it.
 
- He's anxious about my post dividing...up to the point when he makes veiled threats (post #124), comparing it to looking harder on iSoc (and lynching him as a result) in previous game. That's very interesting, considering iSoc turned out to be town...so one would rather think "uh, I've made a mistake. I need to be more careful"...but Preston is using it as a threat.

Your first point is that I am calling for more activity, as opposed to during the previous game. I wasn't here for Day One in the previous game, and my stance on the no-lynch debate is that we are better off with an active and controversial Day 1 that produces exactly the kinds of observations you are making by trying to tie Lego's compatriots together. If EVERYONE stays silent then scum can safely avoid giving information; so by raising the general noise level we force scum to contribute or be noticed for their absence. Personally I think this is a good thing.

I'll also comment as an aside that last game we had several mis-targeted lynch wagons based on inactivity data alone - Rafay, Mazuurek, Samus were all nearly lynched because of silence. I don't want that easy way out to be as big of a factor in this game.

I am not sure how to fully parse your second point, as I dont see anything inconsistent in the quotes you reference: "doing it a little early on day 1" and "trying too hard" have the same meaning, pointing out the potential scumminess of Lego trying to establish his townie bona fides immediately and blatantly enough that it stood out as unusual. And when I acknowledge your referencing Lego but don't do anything more with it - what more were you expecting me to do, exactly?

Your third point about post dividing I address above, however I will focus on your statement that I threatened you:

But why stop on the second one saying there's a second half to be published, instead of doing it just then? Maybe there's a reason, but that kind of "to be continued" teaser is one thing that made me look hard at iSocialism last game.

There is no threat in this line, veiled or otherwise - though I find it interesting you took it as such. This is me stating a behavior that appears more scum than town to me, and which when mis-used by a townie can make them appear more scummy.

Now your second potential Lego compatriot:

Second suspect: 1ceCream
- To much agreeing with Lego (post #36). That vote-to-see-reaction was quite weak (can anyone else draw any town/scum conclusions from it?) and the way they both talk about it seems like it was agreed upon in the scum lobby.
 - Changing his mind so quickly: Death was suspicious to him in post #36 and in #39 is suddenly not anymore ("And Death, now that I look at it, Irescind my previous post") and in #97 is back again. Just as Lego, he don't really care about his "reads" probably because he does not need to.
 
And in general those 3 are circling around Death (since he made some moves they could take advantage of) poking him and probably waiting if anyone else catches the bait, because apparently they don't want to vote themselves.

Interesting theory about scum reactions not being fully fleshed out because they are responding as someone in scum chat is telling them to. It's possible. However with the way D34TH wagoned onto 1ceCream IMMEDIATELY, my initial read on that had put more suspicion on D34TH himself. The main thing you have going is that 1ceCream cited Lego in changing his suspicions of D34TH, following his lead.

Third suspect: KevinH
 
Here I don't have anything concrete. Just a feeling about him. KevinH seems to be trying to deflect a lot rather than defending directly...and unfortunately I don't have time to explain it now.

Kevin's impartial, numbers-based style is a constant it seems - which makes it feel like the perfect cover, even when you know he's like that EVERY game. The most interesting bit about Kevin thus far is how he suddenly raised the question about themes to get conversation on something else than the current wagons - THAT could possibly be deflection.

And yes, your "I don't have time to explain it now" stands out to me like a sore thumb - I've already made the point on why above.

..

Apparently Ali had a LOT to say (and he did call me out by name which I can't not respond to) so sorry for my post being this long already.

Lyner had a reaction to me poking him about not posting, and then to my comment about him posting within two hours of my posting that. CoD correctly points out what I was thinking - that the speed of Lyner's response is potentially telling of his established lurking habit. Lyner copy-pastes his line about reading into posting style back to CoD... a bit strong on the defense there, Lyner. Plus reading into posting style is all we can DO on day 1! What more do you expect us to base those votes on except how others post?

If I was trying to boost my post count you won't notice it Preston
 
Stop reading too much into post style and start voting, we can generate more significant info that way.

Actually poking people who aren't posting at all and having them suddenly show up to defend themselves is VERY telling. Being dismissive of this method and of the results it gets is also telling.
 
FoS Lyner

Stop reading too much into post style and start voting, we can generate more significant info that way.

 
Now we get to Rafay, the subject of a 5 person wagon thus far. Three of those votes went up moderately quickly (and more have suggested they will be on that wagon too), but Rafay has not been doing much to defend himself or contribute to the thread either. There is PLENTY going on to talk about - give us your thoughts and reactions on it instead of being silent. Hell, talk about the people wagoning on you and if you think that's suspicious; talk about legoboy from earlier in the day, or Ali's no-lynch analysis.

Inactivity doesn't mean Rafay can't be scum, but with that many votes seemingly based on just his inactivity instead of the other events of the day, it almost makes him seem more town in my eyes. Finster and Mazuurek's votes are very direct in this regard.

We also have Kevin changing tack to ask people what they think about flavor, instead of the Rafay inactivity wagon or the Lego 'tries-too-hard-to-look-town' wagon. Kevin may have said Rafay would be his first choice on Day 2 onward (since he supports no-lynch), but by explicitly pointing out "Rafay has made exactly 1 post all game" Kevin fuels the inactivity-based wagon without voting. It feels like there is a LOT more going on with this game's Day 1 than normal, and the fact that KevinH is not offering an opinion on any of it beyond his usual impartial lines - and now deflecting to flavor and asking us to discuss it - strikes me as notable. Post style analysis and what people say may be rough data at best, but trying to second guess TW's game setup based on flavor is pure guesswork. The main thing I would agree with out of Kevin's post is that the Basilisk is indeed a name from the second book that's likely to show up as one of the scum since it is one of the antagonists from the book.

SM briefly defended me against Lyner's one-line comment about how last game my analysis style led me to focus on iSoc - I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I also can't disagree that last game iSoc DID turn out town. When a townie engages in scummy behavior, townies will look at them with suspicion... there's not much more that can be said there.
 
We also seem to have a question between D34TH and Lego about when Lego posted last, after Wolfpacks pointed it out. D34TH is standing out to me more, now - at least D34TH vs lego in particular, since the former is trying to get the latter lynched hard enough that he jumped on Wolfpacks' time comment.

---

So where does this leave my own suspicions at this point in time?

1. Legoboy & D34TH - I seriously think ONE of these two is scum, given how the two are going after each other. BOTH of them are acting suspiciously in my eyes, trying to get the other lynched. Legoboy is curiously still voting for Rafay instead of D34TH however, when D34TH has his vote on Legoboy.
1a. D34TH is doubling down on trying to get Legoboy lynched, had the line about Finster being "confirmed" town, and is defensive of himself too.
1b. Legoboy tried too hard early game to establish himself as town, doing things on early Day 1 that might better fit Day 2 or 3 when more information was present. Since being called on it he appears to be trying to play it very cleanly, and was the only one to respond to Kevin's attempt to change the conversation direction.

2. KevinH - Given all that's going on day 1, Kevin doesnt really weigh in on any of it other than to bring up flavor and ask others to discuss it - and curiously the only one who has replied to that tack thus far is Lego. Last game Kevin had all SORTS of thoughts to defend King Hitler's blatant roleclaim mistake and lie in terms of what would and wouldn't make sense for scum to do, with NO evidence from his own cop to support it - where is all that post behavioral justification now? It also feels like he is tacitly egging on the Rafay inactivity wagon with "exactly 1 post all game", letting other votes be placed for him. If Rafay ends up being the day's lynch and flips town, Kevin will earn a harder look.

3. Lyner - Seems to be actively lurking per his norm, seemingly trying to stay out of this very active day 1 discussion with a no-lynch vote as his cover. Responded quickly when I poked him for more content in a somewhat defensive way, and then copy-pasted a response to CoD when called on that... combination of rude and defensive honestly. It's made Lyner stand out to me, plus Rafay is voting for him - Rafay who currently stands at 5 votes plus non-voting support from SM and Kevin for that wagon, which almost makes Rafay look more town.

Thoughts: If I vote Legoboy then I am siding with D34TH who has also struck me as suspicious. Legoboy flipping scum would make D34TH look town, while Legoboy flipping town would make D34TH look scum. If I vote D34TH instead, that would be testing the other side of the equation - but I don't know how much more useful that would prove.

We have until Thursday to finalize what we're going to do. So for the time being my choice is:

Vote: Lyner

Rationale: Per above I am a little suspicious of the vote build-up on Rafay and the fact we are once again defaulting to sheer inactivity to pick our lynches. This makes Rafay seem more town, and combined with what I had to say above about Lyner's lurking and reactions to it being pointed out by CoD, I think this is worth pursuing.

I considered voting for KevinH as well, but at this point that would be throwing my vote away and hiding.

Based on posts over the next few days, I'll consider moving my vote before deadline - but all things considered this has proven a VERY active Day 1, which I think is a good thing for the town.

-Preston

[Canik]

Unvote

I was to make sure Rafay isn't lynched quite yet. Glad people put pressure on him though. Even if it causes mislynches sometimes it's better for the game to have a low-tolerance for inactivity than not.

One thing I'd like to point out about Lyner too.. he votes no-lynch then pressures others to vote instead. Not very cool.
http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/57842-tw-03-harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-secrets-mafia-day-1/?p=874218

I will hold my vote for now, going to re-read the thread and see how I feel after that.

[legoboyvdlp]

QUOTE BEGIN PRESTON

Legoboy & D34TH - I seriously think ONE of these two is scum, given how the two are going after each other. BOTH of them are acting suspiciously in my eyes, trying to get the other lynched. Legoboy is curiously still voting for Rafay instead of D34TH however, when D34TH has his vote on Legoboy.

END QUOTE PRESTON

If I voted him, it would be a pure OMGUS I recall how I played last game, and I also have a suspicion of D34TH based on that, but I'm not ready to vote yet. I dislike how he makes a mountain out of a molehill when accusing me of all sorts of things such as lying about Sunday posting. At least Ali elaborates and makes good points!

Good night

[Chaplain of death]

I tend to agree with your analysis preston. You make a very valid point about kevins play style this game, especially since influencing a wagon into existence without voting on it is a hugely scum tactic. Voting records wouldn't show him as having voted for a townie to die even though he helped push the wagon through.

Ive yet to decide if d3ath and lego are just new or if they are slipping up. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to newer players but they are still striking me as a bit off.

I also agree that with how fast Rafays wagon came into existence there is likely a couple scum on there, and i doubt that scum would sacrifice one of their own so early.

Lyner is still on my suspect list and is also a bit of a lurker though not as bad as Rafay. I think I'm more suspicious of kevins strange play style though.

vote KevinH

[Rhizoctonia]

And I thought I wrote novels haha.  Good to see I'm not alone...though Preston I'd be careful of getting too wordy.  I was quite that way the first few games I played and people started to get a little upset with having to read novels, but I think you do a good job of organizing it and explaining yourself.  Just some friendly advice from someone who has done it...I've tried to cut back on my "novel" posts but know they will come back.  

 

To answer a few things you point out though that I feel I can answer playing with some of these guys a few games now

 

Your comment about ABT being contradictory about usually voting for Rafay.  I think what he's getting at is simply ABT does not like Rafay's lurking/inactive style play, he's made this known in former games as well.  My guess is he's saying normally he'd vote Rafay because he knows how he plays and how he usually refrains from contributing all that much, but at this moment he has suspicion of people that warrants more attention then voting Rafay simply because he knows how he plays and lynching him D1 every game till he decides to contribute.  I don't think Rafay is on his real scum list because he hasn't said much to offer suspicion, he's just merely always on ABT's mind as someone to get rid of early who won't be actively helping, which is similar in my view.  More a vote for gameplay rather then scummish vibe.  

 

Kevin - Kevin always acts the same D1.  He never goes lynch D1 and because "no one knows anything D1" he usually doesn't get into looking to pressure or look to push a lynch.  So it's not real surprising he has looked to take the viewpoint from lynch wagons to merely talking about Flavor, which honestly I think does nothing to help us in the game besides something to just talk about but doesn't get us any closer to finding a scum.  But what he is every game without a doubt is consistent, so if he's town or he's scum, I wouldn't expect him to act any differently, so he always can hide under cover the first day or two.  I think his flavor post is a bit of misdirection, as he seems to want everyone to follow his lead with not looking to care about a lynch.  

 

Those are just my input's on things you brought up that I feel as a player whose played with them a few times can answer a bit for you, but they can probably better.  

[Chaplain of death]

But if kevin were not interested in lynching day 1, why add fuel to the "burn Rafay at the stake bonfire"?

He may just be prodding for activity but there was already talk of lynching Rafay if I'm not mistaken which means he would have to know that pointing out his inactovity again would just spur that on. That doesn't sound like someone who's trying to no lynch.

[Rhizoctonia]

But if kevin were not interested in lynching day 1, why add fuel to the "burn Rafay at the stake bonfire"?

He may just be prodding for activity but there was already talk of lynching Rafay if I'm not mistaken which means he would have to know that pointing out his inactovity again would just spur that on. That doesn't sound like someone who's trying to no lynch.

 

 

Agree.  I need to get sleep and don't have time to look back through to see if Kevin mentioned that, but yea, if he brought up Rafay's inactivity then one could say it's a indirect way of helping push people that way.  Though I've made comment's about Rafay's inactivity but not necessarily looking to push the lynch on him.  Not saying I wouldn't, I already stated I'm willing to take out a lurker on D1 if that's all there is, but I think there is some suspicion of others that I might rather base my vote on then someone's usual gameplay.  And the quick 5 votes on Rafay make me less eager to go Rafay at this point as I mentioned, it was rather quick wagon on him simply off gameplay.  

[D34THBR1NG3R]

With the comment about not elaborating, I do not play these games, the closest being Town of Salem in which you have less than a minute to vote someone to lynch, and so I just go on my base feeling and I didn't know how much elaboration this game really needed until now when I see paragraphs on paragraphs of respondse. However I will not be writing paragraphs and paragraphs of response until day 2 as I am still helping take care of my grandpa while my grandma is in the hospital, however on Saturday or Sunday (little too late I know with this day) I will be elaborating more on my opinions and using evidence with them. And for the third or fourth time, I jumped on 1ceCream immediately as a joke if you would actually read my explanation on it, and AGAIN, 1ceCream said he realized it was a joke.

[Lyner]

This logic is contradictory coming from you.

 

When Lego was on the chopping block last game, did you or any of your scum mates try to save him?

 

As AbT stated, he did try to defend Lego indirectly.

 

As for me, first it wasn't day one where "No Lynch" can be an alternative, and back then tbh I was waiting for Lego to post so I could try to save him, unfortunately he's not active enough and panicked when he finally came; a lost cause at that point.

 

Also is that an indirect defense on Rafay?

 

 

 

 

And if I may add, Preston admitted it himself that he became suspicious of the actually innocent iSoc last game because of this way of observation

He also was right most of the time.

And he will still sound right even when he was playing as a scum, that's what I call post style.

 

Anyway that's a bit trivial since my point is not to discredit Preston, but rather encourage townies to vote instead of just posting their opinions. Preston & AbT showed us a good example here, they posted their analysis/opinion and promptly voted for who they were suspecting the most instead of a mere FoS.

 

 

 

As for @Canik, I pressure people to vote, a No-Lynch is a vote. Don't confuse it with a no vote.

[Preston]

And I thought I wrote novels haha.  Good to see I'm not alone...though Preston I'd be careful of getting too wordy.

I know I tend to be verbose, but given the sheer activity since my last post I had a lot to catch up on and respond to - only so much that can be minimized.
 

Your comment about ABT being contradictory about usually voting for Rafay.  I think what he's getting at is simply ABT does not like Rafay's lurking/inactive style play, he's made this known in former games as well.  My guess is he's saying normally he'd vote Rafay because he knows how he plays and how he usually refrains from contributing all that much, but at this moment he has suspicion of people that warrants more attention then voting Rafay simply because he knows how he plays and lynching him D1 every game till he decides to contribute.  I don't think Rafay is on his real scum list because he hasn't said much to offer suspicion, he's just merely always on ABT's mind as someone to get rid of early who won't be actively helping, which is similar in my view.  More a vote for gameplay rather then scummish vibe.  
 
Kevin - Kevin always acts the same D1.  He never goes lynch D1 and because "no one knows anything D1" he usually doesn't get into looking to pressure or look to push a lynch.  So it's not real surprising he has looked to take the viewpoint from lynch wagons to merely talking about Flavor, which honestly I think does nothing to help us in the game besides something to just talk about but doesn't get us any closer to finding a scum.  But what he is every game without a doubt is consistent, so if he's town or he's scum, I wouldn't expect him to act any differently, so he always can hide under cover the first day or two.  I think his flavor post is a bit of misdirection, as he seems to want everyone to follow his lead with not looking to care about a lynch.

It still struck me as odd that AbT started his post saying he would join the Rafay wagon and the reason he didn't is that it would possibly end the day - and then the rest of his post is about everyone BUT Rafay. It's not a major point, just felt incongruous to lead in supporting a wagon you then ignore for the rest of your analysis.

And yes, Kevin always has the same style and mantras for Day 1 - I commented on that previously. Normally Day 1 is more joke and fluff than this has been, so ignoring the mess makes more sense - as would bringing up the flavor fluff like he just did. However given how active today has been, Kevin feels more like he is trying not to offer any opinions that would potentially tie him to any side - while he simultaneously noted about Rafay's post count and then brought up flavor names.
 

But if kevin were not interested in lynching day 1, why add fuel to the "burn Rafay at the stake bonfire"?

He may just be prodding for activity but there was already talk of lynching Rafay if I'm not mistaken which means he would have to know that pointing out his inactovity again would just spur that on. That doesn't sound like someone who's trying to no lynch.

Agree.  I need to get sleep and don't have time to look back through to see if Kevin mentioned that, but yea, if he brought up Rafay's inactivity then one could say it's a indirect way of helping push people that way.  Though I've made comment's about Rafay's inactivity but not necessarily looking to push the lynch on him.  Not saying I wouldn't, I already stated I'm willing to take out a lurker on D1 if that's all there is, but I think there is some suspicion of others that I might rather base my vote on then someone's usual gameplay.  And the quick 5 votes on Rafay make me less eager to go Rafay at this point as I mentioned, it was rather quick wagon on him simply off gameplay.

Kevin did indeed mention that - I quoted him in my post but didn't link to it at the time. Here's a quote reference for you:

Rafay has made exactly 1 post all game.
 
Given that everyone has equal probability to be scum at this point, he's my first choice to lynch (after today).

As for Lego: Interesting quote style? But beyond that, OMGUS refers more to voting for someone only/mainly because they are voting for you, and usually immediately after they voted for you. D34TH's jumping to push for Lego's wagon is notable, as was Lego's original trying too hard to appear town - both are outliers at this stage in the game.
 

With the comment about not elaborating, I do not play these games, the closest being Town of Salem in which you have less than a minute to vote someone to lynch, and so I just go on my base feeling and I didn't know how much elaboration this game really needed until now when I see paragraphs on paragraphs of respondse. However I will not be writing paragraphs and paragraphs of response until day 2 as I am still helping take care of my grandpa while my grandma is in the hospital, however on Saturday or Sunday (little too late I know with this day) I will be elaborating more on my opinions and using evidence with them. And for the third or fourth time, I jumped on 1ceCream immediately as a joke if you would actually read my explanation on it, and AGAIN, 1ceCream said he realized it was a joke.

Town of Salem - I've tried that, and it's very quick and formulaic, and frankly seems to have more of an emphasis on the power role usage than much of the discussion. There's a lot more posting here, and you dont have everyone active at the same time. You dont need paragaphs upon paragraphs, just get your point across and respond to what happens in the thread. Your original vote for 1ceCream was interesting even as a joke vote, but the real signs to draw interest to you came later with your reactions to other people suspecting you.

Anyway that's a bit trivial since my point is not to discredit Preston, but rather encourage townies to vote instead of just posting their opinions. Preston & AbT showed us a good example here, they posted their analysis/opinion and promptly voted for who they were suspecting the most instead of a mere FoS.
 
As for @Canik, I pressure people to vote, a No-Lynch is a vote. Don't confuse it with a no vote.

When we have an active Day 1 like this, maintaining no-lynch without offering opinions or anything else on the ongoing discussion feels like avoiding comment on the day's events to keep yourself from being tied to anyone; in that context no-lynch feels a lot closer to no-vote than it otherwise would. I don't mind if no-lynch is how the day eventually ends up, but don't sit on the sidelines for all of day 1.

-Preston

[D34THBR1NG3R]

Well my reaction to being suspected was how it was because I was very surprised how antsy people were in what someone said they get really suspicious although now I feel I'm digging a deeper hole trying to rectify all of this

[Ali bin Turban]

@Preston

 

- I do see benefits of delayed posting in quite a few situations. Like cop waiting till the half of the day before posting his scum find, so that he gets more material from scum interactions.  For instance I got more data from both you and Lego I might not get otherwise (like for instance Lego is not being so at ease right now). Like not willing to post a wall of text but rather divide it into separate posts that can be discussed separately. Strange you don't see it. Maybe that's because it affects you.

 

- You're trying little to hard with Rafay's case. He's my default D1 choice in every game due to his playstyle and I treat it as a didactic move. If I find a scum however I won't ignore him just for the sake of punishing Rafay.

 

- About your explanation on calling for activity...good to know, you're only doing it on D1. I find that funny, but don't expect me to believe it. Last game I did exactly the same thing you are doing right now as a cheap way for scoring some townie points. Also if you were really so concerned about players being lynched for inactivity in a previous game, why didn't you start calling immediately but wait for the next game to begin?

 

- You say: "I am not sure how to fully parse your second point, as I dont see anything inconsistent in the quotes you reference: "doing it a little early on day 1" and "trying too hard" have the same meaning". I'll help you because you kind of missed the proper fragment: "He's (Lego) hitting all the normal scum-hunting checkboxes" vs "Legoboy made early waves trying to be very proactively pro-townie". This is what interests me.

 

- About Death, interestingly you give so much meaning to his post #6 and at the same time you justify Lego by saying "He's hitting all the normal scum-hunting checkboxes, but doing it a little early on day 1 for it to mean anything". I'll bold for everyone to catch it, because that's very disturbing.

It's also strange that only You, Lego and 1ceCream are the ones giving this #6 post so much meaning.

 

- Your choice of Lyner: he stands out because he responded quickly after you poked him (but what if he just logged in after you posted?) and copy pasted response and thus is lynch worthy? Really? Are these the biggest "sins" anyone has accumulated around here?  I can't call it any other way than a distraction.

[Finster Baby]

Wow so much info.

I still think a D1 lynch is the way to go. And I still have my wagon hitched to Rafay right now, mainly for the same reason AbT does - I severely dislike his style of play, and I don't want to continually deal wtih the "well, Rafay is inactive, and we can't get any info out of him, etc etc." I'd rather mislynch him than deal with that, again.

Lego is on my list for further investigation in another day. He's just too "free" for my liking right now.

Other than that, there's lots of noise to weed through, and I have a 10 day old screaming. Plus, Preston, I love your analysis, but your posts make my head hurt.

[The Warrior]

Vote Count

 

Rafay (4): Mandarijn, Finster Baby, legoboyvdlp, Mazuurek

legoboyvdlp (2): D34THBR1NG3R, Ali bin Turban

Lyner (2): Rafay, Preston

KevinH (1): Chaplain of Death

Ali bin Turban (0):

Canik (0):

Chaplain of Death (0):

D34THBR1NG3R (0):

Finster Baby (0):

1ceCream (0):

iSocialism (0):

Mandarijn (0):

Mazuurek (0):

Preston (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):

Samus (0):

Sister Midnight (0):

Wolfpacks (0):

 

No Lynch (4): KevinH, 1ceCream, Wolfpacks, Lyner

Not voting: Canik, iSocialism, Rhizoctonia, Samus, Sister Midnight

 

With 18 alive, it takes 9 to lynch or 5 at deadline.
Deadline is 1:00pm CST on Thursday, August 11th.

[Ali bin Turban]

@Finster, I'm not voting on Rafay and given amount information we have on other actors I don't see myself doing it...so we're not on the same page her.

 

Also what do you mean by "free" when talking about Lego? And how do you envision further investigation (why not right now but in another day?)?

[Mandarijn]

It seems we'll be lynching either Rafay or lego and otherwise it'll be a no lynch.

 

Lego seems like a good person to lynch, he's either scum or just a VT (as he role claimed in one of his 1st posts already), so we don't really lose much if we mislynch him...

I'm fine with either as I really want to lynch Rafay for his playing style on D1 in a game (I don't think we ever actually did it before). I'll be available to switch my vote.

[Finster Baby]

That's what i got from your post - you don't like his play style...I could have misred.

Free = carefree.

Why not now? I have no real info to use, thats why. Past performance does not indicate future returns.

[Ali bin Turban]

You said he's on your list for further investigation...so you're going to ask him any questions for instance, or are you waiting for someone to investigate him via PR?

[Samus]

still no response or reply from rafay eh?

[Chaplain of death]

@Preston
 
- I do see benefits of delayed posting in quite a few situations. Like cop waiting till the half of the day before posting his scum find, so that he gets more material from scum interactions.  For instance I got more data from both you and Lego I might not get otherwise (like for instance Lego is not being so at ease right now). Like not willing to post a wall of text but rather divide it into separate posts that can be discussed separately. Strange you don't see it. Maybe that's because it affects you.
 
- You're trying little to hard with Rafay's case. He's my default D1 choice in every game due to his playstyle and I treat it as a didactic move. If I find a scum however I won't ignore him just for the sake of punishing Rafay.
 
- About your explanation on calling for activity...good to know, you're only doing it on D1. I find that funny, but don't expect me to believe it. Last game I did exactly the same thing you are doing right now as a cheap way for scoring some townie points. Also if you were really so concerned about players being lynched for inactivity in a previous game, why didn't you start calling immediately but wait for the next game to begin?
 
- You say: "I am not sure how to fully parse your second point, as I dont see anything inconsistent in the quotes you reference: "doing it a little early on day 1" and "trying too hard" have the same meaning". I'll help you because you kind of missed the proper fragment: "He's (Lego) hitting all the normal scum-hunting checkboxes" vs "Legoboy made early waves trying to be very proactively pro-townie". This is what interests me.
 
- About Death, interestingly you give so much meaning to his post #6 and at the same time you justify Lego by saying "He's hitting all the normal scum-hunting checkboxes, but doing it a little early on day 1 for it to mean anything". I'll bold for everyone to catch it, because that's very disturbing.
It's also strange that only You, Lego and 1ceCream are the ones giving this #6 post so much meaning.
 
- Your choice of Lyner: he stands out because he responded quickly after you poked him (but what if he just logged in after you posted?) and copy pasted response and thus is lynch worthy? Really? Are these the biggest "sins" anyone has accumulated around here?  I can't call it any other way than a distraction.

Prestons argument was against people posting that they have info but then not sharing until later. There will always be some merits to holding on to information for awhile in an attempt to glean more information, but saying you have something and not sharing it accomplishes nothing and essentially shuts down discussion.

As for his accusation against Lyner, lurking is a tactic scum use often. They don't contribute until they have to do something to remain out of the spotlight. There is nothing wrong with his conclusion nor his suspicion on Lyner based on current evidence. And all Lyner had to say on the subject was, "don't read too far into it". Or in other words, "ignore me im not scum you can trust me i swear, the scum will just tell us who they are after a few days." We have to read in to peoples behavior and posting style, that's literally all we have on day 1, and its the primary scum hunting tool.


That say that***