926 replies to this topic

[Preston]

And I know that TW can't just come out and clarify because that would be illegally confirming my role pretty much

Last game TW did have to comment when he made a mistake in reporting night results to people. If he really did make a mistake in what he told Mazu, there is precedent for him to speak up.

-Preston

[Mazuurek]

Alright, I read wrong. It DOES say Normal Hogwarts GHOST. Sorry!

[Preston]

Alright, I read wrong. It DOES say Normal Hogwarts GHOST. Sorry!

The dangers of skimming your results - PLEASE be careful about this, the whole point of your investigating D34TH was to confirm the Ghost or not!

Seriously, making mistakes with your power role can make you look scummy; people correctly view any mistakes or inconsistencies as potential scum fake-claim slip-ups.

So this update from Mazu doesn't serve to 100% confirm if D34TH is or isn't a Godfather or SK, but at minimum it means the 'ghost' thing he said before is accurate - which can be a point in his favor.

I'm not sure where this puts my suspicions right now. I want to hear more from Lego at minimum.

-Preston

[Finster Baby]

Alright, I read wrong. It DOES say Normal Hogwarts GHOST. Sorry!

Based on this I now buy D34th's claim. See? I can be convinced.

Mazu: accuracy counts!

At this point, I am thinking either Lego or Preston are our choices. Lego has been rather sparse in his activity over the past few days and really hasn't provided a lot of info or been scum hunting. (Yes I know he had some RL issues)

FOS: Lego.

Preston has been WAY too helpful to be scum. Or he plays that good of a game. LOL

[legoboyvdlp]

I thought so! Well done.

I'm suspicious of D34TH and Mazureek. Problem is I'll be away for the day to visit family.

I'm done with you right now... You need to speak. You blamed it on bad internet then got better internet and said you'd post your thought, nothing was posted. Now you try to put a FoS on me and maz like everyone else and say you AGAIN won't be posting. This is all just way too convenient for you...

FoS Lego

Very convenient that you didn't check if I had logged on the forums, right?



@TheWarrior, requesting replacement after tonight. Unless game is over.
Honestly, do what you want to me. Lynch me. Eat me alive. Only problem with option a is I'm town according to thewarrior's initial mafia private message. I won't likely be around much of this week. Rushing around Tescos and things here. I really hate shoe shops.


@TW can I be replaced IMMEDIATELY?

[Preston]

I'm not sure what to say to what Lego posted, and given the silence since then - either busy weekends or no one else knows either.

He claims his townieness in a very fatalistic way, without really trying to defend himself at all, and extends the period he is likely to be unresponsive. I understand RL being an issue, but this is a strange way to go about it.

Asking first to be replaced "after tonight unless it's game over", and then immediately... honestly at this point if he IS replaced, we'd have zero read on the new person anyway.

It's hard to tell between the three main suspects who remain.

D34TH is looking marginally more town due to confirmation of his "Ghost"; unless we find out after the game that TW came up with that label to match a safe claim name after the fact.

Lego seems to not want to give us much of anything to respond to. He has bandwagoned the whole game and rode the idea of his 'proven' townieness until now - but since it was Samus (scum) who established that, I dont know. Competing theories: Samus defended Lego and accused people voting for him (same with Rafay) because if they flip town, he can claim to have been right; or alternately, Samus defended Lego and his theory, and because Lego never died his theory was untested. Remember that Rhizo went after Canik for his Lego vote, too.

Finster seems neutral... played it safe bandwagoning for much of the game, but is more talkative today and participating. Having voted for KH yesterday could be a method to try and remain safe today - if Finster and KH were both scum then we had votes on both yesterday, and his only option was to support lynching the other.

Choosing between Lego and Finster is tricky. Frankly it's possible BOTH were playing it safe - one the scum, the other the SK - but we don't know.

Mazu, do you have any input on this as the cop?

-Preston

[Finster Baby]

Yeah RL sucks.

Me playing it safe? Hardly. I went hard after d34th until Mazu confirmed him properly. Now, given Lego's desire to quit the game, I get a sense that he knows things are done and so his he.

I *still* am having a hard time with why the scum have let Mazu live. Unless the last scum knows he can't be found out at this rate.

I'm almost of the opinion that if Lego wants out, then we should let him out. But, if he's town, we're pretty screwed if we do that.

[Preston]

Me playing it safe? Hardly. I went hard after d34th until Mazu confirmed him properly. Now, given Lego's desire to quit the game, I get a sense that he knows things are done and so his he.

I'm referring to your early-mid game behavior. Everyone's behavior changes near the end of the game, when there's less of a crowd to blend into and you need to make the case for other people being the day's lynch instead of you.

I *still* am having a hard time with why the scum have let Mazu live. Unless the last scum knows he can't be found out at this rate.

I put my theory on this earlier in that really long post, but TLDR:
* If there's a scum left at all, betting it's a Godfather that doesn't fear the cop. We were talking about Godfather and Ninja both being in play earlier, and so far we have only seen the Ninja.
* Mazu as claimed cop cannot be a SK, and scum wants to find the SK.
* Because neither Mazu or D34TH were killed last night, both scum and SK either wanted to see Mazu's result to try and find the other, or otherwise weren't afraid of the result coming out.

Despite his slip-ups and sparse results, Mazu's cop claim has not been counter-claimed and he is the fifth town PR. It would be VERY risky for anyone to fake-claim as the cop, either SK or Scum, unless they KNEW no cop was in play - and we took out the scum's Role Cop early enough to make that unlikely.

I'm almost of the opinion that if Lego wants out, then we should let him out. But, if he's town, we're pretty screwed if we do that.

The ways people react when suspicion turns their way can be telling - but in this case Lego doesn't want to give us much to go on.

We now have one day left to decide. I'm still torn between Finster and Lego.

Both D34TH and Finster have FoS'd Lego; it would be easy for THAT to be the day's lynch, but given Lego's post I don't know if that's scum behavior or a raging self-destructive townie.

Finster is being far more active and independent to counter the idea of him playing it safe earlier - the activity is appreciated, but does not clear him.

I'm going to have to settle on a vote tonight, even if it means literally rolling dice or flipping a coin.

-Preston

[Finster Baby]

If I survive the day, I welcome an investigation.

I put my theory on this earlier in that really long post, but TLDR:
* If there's a scum left at all, betting it's a Godfather that doesn't fear the cop. We were talking about Godfather and Ninja both being in play earlier, and so far we have only seen the Ninja.
* Mazu as claimed cop cannot be a SK, and scum wants to find the SK.
* Because neither Mazu or D34TH were killed last night, both scum and SK either wanted to see Mazu's result to try and find the other, or otherwise weren't afraid of the result coming out.

I think your first point is most likely the case. As I mentioned, if there was an SK, don't you think, with no way to track him, he'd be killing us with impunity?

I think there's a godfather among us, and, in order of likelihood:
1. Lego
2. Preston
3. D34th
4. Maz
5. Me

And reality 3-5 aren't likely, tho I could be wrong about D34th, even given the investigation that exonerates him, but I don't hold it as likely.

[Preston]

On phone so will be brief:

Both Finster and Preston seem to have the same suspect order, divided only by each excluding themselves. This is not a surprise given the little information available, but I hesitate when I see everyone pointing at Lego - it feels too obvious.

I still want to hear some updated opinions from Mazu and D34TH - the latter hasn't posted since Maz's correction. And if Lego is still here, weigh in on the discussion - I don't think a replacement is going to happen.

[legoboyvdlp]

No replacement? All right. I'll be away ALL day tomorrow.

So thoughts?

I'm bored right now. So that said, I feel there is an SK, and it could well be someone trying to "lead" the town. Remember, SK "hates" scum too, right?

At the moment, I'm thinking there are no scum, just a hunch. But an SK, and he is well hidden. I know I'm not him, but...

Preston has been very actively leading, I'm concerned. Also Mazureek, role claim is smelling a little bit fishy. That calls D34TH and Preston's towniness into doubt.

[D34THBR1NG3R]

I'm on the phone too but I feel like Mazu is really sketching me out still but I don't know, there have been too many coincidences when he might be scum.

And by too many I mean two.
He investigated someone twice which I feel like he forgot who he said before, no one would just forget and if he's sun and there isn't an sk just a town killing role then he could say anyone is normal, except for the tk role. So if there is anyone that hasn't been investigated then that might be the tk and mazu is scum

2nd he messed up on what he got when he investigated me. Another time forgetting what he or someone else said earlier. I have a bad feeling about mazu...

[Finster Baby]

D34th brings up valid points about Mazu - that his screw ups are almost too much to be overlooked...

[Preston]

D34th brings up valid points about Mazu - that his screw ups are almost too much to be overlooked...

Yeah, Mazu has had two major mistakes so far - first that he investigated me a second time, and second that he corrected himself on what he saw with D34TH. Mistakes like those would normally trigger heavy scrutiny on the potential of it being a scum fake-claim.

The only reasons I'm willing to give Mazu a pass on those mistakes instead of calling them scummy slip-ups are that 1) Without his claim we only have had 4 town roles this game when we are looking at possibly 5 scum (number/balance mismatch), and 2) since no-one has counter claimed cop that would mean we would have had no cop at ALL - despite us talking about a Godfather now, and the only thing that would have fooled would have been Mazu's normal cop or Rhizo's JoAT. Assuming a Godfather without a Cop doesnt make sense.

For Mazu to have faked a cop claim as scum, he would have had to have known the roles of EVERYONE who remained as of the time he claimed - so that he'd know no cop counter-claim would be coming. There are other, less central and testable roles to fake claim - see what KH did. I think Mazu has made mistakes, but so far still think his claim is still valid.

.

No replacement? All right. I'll be away ALL day tomorrow.

So thoughts?

I'm bored right now. So that said, I feel there is an SK, and it could well be someone trying to "lead" the town. Remember, SK "hates" scum too, right?

At the moment, I'm thinking there are no scum, just a hunch. But an SK, and he is well hidden. I know I'm not him, but...

Preston has been very actively leading, I'm concerned. Also Mazureek, role claim is smelling a little bit fishy. That calls D34TH and Preston's towniness into doubt.

It's good to see a response from Lego, and fairly quickly after I asked too.

So do I understand correctly that Lego's theory is that because I'm helping scum hunt and pushing people to be active - basically leading - that makes me a more likely SK? This sounds very similar to the argument iSocialism pulled attacking Ali just before he was lynched and Ali was night killed.

But what catches my attention more is that Lego questions Mazu's cop claim, and then tries to say it ALSO casts doubt on D34TH and I as a result. Questioning Mazu I can understand given his mistakes (see above), but if Mazu's claim is false AND Lego also wants to suspect D34TH and I as a result... that could only happen if both Mazu was scum AND there was another scum beyond that; how many scum does Lego think are still alive? That runs counter to his stated idea of there being NO scum and just a SK left - which makes me think that Lego is looking for any reason to make everyone else a suspect and see what sticks.

Overall that contradiction in this post has now moved Lego more solidly to the top of my suspect list.

Since we are now hours away from the deadline, I am going to cast my vote now.

Vote: Lego

I WILL check the thread in the morning before the deadline, and if needs be I'll adjust my vote based on any conversation that may follow tonight - but I don't want today to end in a no-lynch and give up on finding the remaining scum because we ran out of time.

In the case this gets hammered before I get back to the thread, my remaining suspect order is Finster, D34TH, Mazu - with this few people it forces us to question those we had otherwise thought 'proven' town for good reasons. Finster helped hammer KH yesterday, but it could have been because the alternative was to be lynched himself; and D34TH's "ghost" text may be confirmed, but it doesn't prove him clear of being Godfather or SK.

Who knows - maybe if Lego proves to be the last scum, it'll be Town Win and all of these questions will be academic. But if not and I don't survive until tomorrow - good luck everyone left in finding the last scum!

-Preston

[Finster Baby]

I'm going to join Preston here with my vote, for reasons stated above. I still have lingering doubts about Mazu, as things are too coincidental with him, mainly that he isn't dead yet, and his mistakes.

That said, when I researched the Cop role this morning to see if my hunches were right, I did find that the Cop role really doesn't have a scum equivalent. So, maybe we chalk up his mistakes to be just that, mistakes. Overall, he's been helpful, so that can't be discounted.

VOTE: Lego

[D34THBR1NG3R]

So, so far Lego is gone if no one cancels their vote, and if he is the last scum or the SK (if we have one) then we're good to go. ALSO, if he is somehow the town killing role then we can confirm that mazu is the last scum because he said Lego was normal.

[Finster Baby]

IF Lego was the godfather, then a normal result is expected.

[Preston]

So, so far Lego is gone if no one cancels their vote, and if he is the last scum or the SK (if we have one) then we're good to go. ALSO, if he is somehow the town killing role then we can confirm that mazu is the last scum because he said Lego was normal.

When did Mazu say *Lego* was normal? If memory serves Mazu said he investigated Rafay, SM, CoD, Preston, Preston again, and now D34TH.

On that note, if there's another game night/day Mazu please investigate Finster - he's the only other person left in the game TO investigate.

Here's hoping that Lego is the right choice and we find either scum or SK with him.

-Preston

[D34THBR1NG3R]

Oh, then this game might be over sooner than we know it if he didn't invest lego

[Preston]

Oh, then this game might be over sooner than we know it if he didn't invest lego

I'm curious why you thought Mazu had investigated Lego or said he was normal - but if we're looking for a Godfather at this point, there is less gained from Mazu's investigations anyway.

The only reason it particularly helped with D34TH was to return his "Ghost" flavor and confirm that part of his earlier roleclaim was not a lie; it doesnt clear you, but it at least removed that question.

That, and if there IS a SK and they are not investigation-immune, Finster is the last person it could be; having results on everyone would let us at least eliminate that possibility.

Still hoping for game over after tonight though - it's been a LONG game. Fingers crossed!

-Preston
P.S. Oh good this did post. The forums froze after I hit post, and I thought TW had once again locked the thread as I was writing That happened like three times last game!