I really feel for the American electorate. The only choices you seem to have is between terrible and appalling, but at least you will get an elected government. Here in N.Z. we suffer under a proportional representation system which guarantees seats to any party which polls more than 5% of the popular vote. This often results in minority fringe parties being cast in the role of "king-maker" by granting or denying support to the major parties. You can only imagine the horse trading and shenanigans that follow a General election. Talk about the tail wagging the dog!

 

Good luck to the long suffering U.S. tax-payer , I don't think your pain will end with either of the candidates being proposed. 

I'll be keeping an eye on Gary Johnson. If his support swells to maybe 30%, it will be hard for anyone to not flip to his side. My wife is the one most devastated. She has been the biggest Trump supporter anywhere... and when I played that video for her yesterday, she just said "it's over, he lost". Now she only wants him to prove he really cares about the country... and drop out. If he stays in the race, we will still vote for him if he's the best chance to beat Hillary. If Hillary wins, it will be a long 4 years of nothing, and the Dems will probably primary her. No one trusts her... and she can't win again. We will also have to worry about some states just going into open revolt. It's a scary time for curtain.

I had to actually look at the news for once to see these 11 year old comments. (I don't watch the news a lot.)

 

While I would never vote for Hillary, Trump's comments are pretty disturbing. As someone (him) taking a strong stance against Bill's faithfulness, actions of sexual assault, and Hillary's brutish tactics to keep them covered, Trump should've kept his own actions in mind. Despite the audio being 11+ years old, he was married at the time. As a man who constantly states that Hillary and Bill use their position of power for favors, isn't Trump using his elite socalite status to try and whoo married women following those same tactics? Despite different reasonings and outcomes of the two, Trump does worry me in some respects as this is yet another example of him using power and money for an advantage (though not even close to the extent the Clintons and Bushs do). Call it business tactics, call it whatever. Give the man control of the nation utilizing a mindset like that and it is a risky endeavor.

 

I know Trump has said off colored things before but this just rubbed me the wrong way. Despite that, Trump still belongs in the Oval Office ahead of Clinton in my opinion. As far as him dropping out, that'd hand the election to Hillary. No write in, replacement candidate, or existing candidate would be able to take on Hillary's brutish style, news/debate rigging, and combative debating unless we place Rand in that position but given the undecided populations opinion of Rand, I doubt he'd be able to pull a win.

 

And to Rhizo, I felt I was the only one with that twisted gut feeling that Trump is in this as a Dem plant. The feeling is still there and probably will be until he proves himself as President.

Strange days. Trump support is remaining surprisingly resilient. The Republican establishment obviously took advantage of the situation, and immediately distanced themselves from the Donald. Let's be honest... they have hated him from the start.

 

The Republican voters are steadfast with their support. It's like they expected it, and they even expect more. It's obvious that the Clinton campaign, the White House, and the vast liberal media, are working together to tamp down the avalanche of negative information coming from FOIA demands and Wikileaks on Hillary Clinton. So whenever some bad shit is coming out on Hillary... we will get another offensive recording of Trump from his early reality show days. Julian Assange said he has released one percent of what he has on Hillary... that means they will need a lot more Trump tape.

 

My wife came home from work last night and said to me... "If American women are so offended by what Trump said... who bought 80 million copies of Fifty Shades of Grey?" Well, she's right. We are all being played by a well oiled Progressive machine that is hell bent to undermine the U.S. Constitution, open our borders, outsource our industry, suck the wealth from our eyeballs, disarm the American people, and turn us all into Global Citizens. Not while I breath.

 

There is a Town Hall debate tonight. Maybe Donald Trump can expose Hillary Clinton as the lying bag of shit she is. We can hope.

Maybe it's more of a vote against Hillary than a vote for Trump.

 

Hillary is such a bad candidate..that despite all of Trump's drama, he still has got a chance. Honestly if it was anyone else, the race would have been truly over.

 

More comments leaked today from Trump...he even commented on his daughter...really.

 

I commend you on this.  I commend anyone willing to actually not make excuses for shit behavior, be it your candidate or not.

 

I wish to second this, to many people in the US are allowing their favorite to do the thing they despise his/her opponent for. The thought about holding up a mirror weren't truer before.

Maybe it's more of a vote against Hillary than a vote for Trump.

 

Hillary is such a bad candidate..that despite all of Trump's drama, he still has got a chance. Honestly if it was anyone else, the race would have been truly over.

 

More comments leaked today from Trump...he even commented on his daughter...really.

Much of Trump support is purely anti-Hillary. If this was a Rubio, Pence, Kasich... this would not even be close. I blame the Republican Primary system for this. Same on the Democrat side. We have a choice between awful, and unacceptable.

 

If it's that comment from Trump saying if he were not her father he would be dating her... that's already been out there.

Much of Trump support is purely anti-Hillary. If this was a Rubio, Pence, Kasich... this would not even be close. I blame the Republican Primary system for this. Same on the Democrat side. We have a choice between awful, and unacceptable.

 

If it's that comment from Trump saying if he were not her father he would be dating her... that's already been out there.

This may be the first comment involving politics with which I agree with you.

 

With regard to other comments about his daughter, Donald said it is OK to refer to her as a "nice piece of ass." I heard that recording a day or two ago.

 

Much of Trump support is purely anti-Hillary. If this was a Rubio, Pence, Kasich... this would not even be close. I blame the Republican Primary system for this. Same on the Democrat side. We have a choice between awful, and unacceptable.

 

If it's that comment from Trump saying if he were not her father he would be dating her... that's already been out there.

This may be the first comment involving politics with which I agree with you.

 

With regard to other comments about his daughter, Donald said it is OK to refer to her as a "nice piece of ass." I heard that recording a day or two ago.

 

I am guilty of brutal honesty, and when we are both munching a crap sandwich, I'll be the first to say it.

Here's a patriot from Florida... making it clear to Cane Matthew who is boss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8eL_DB-xBo

Never change Florida. Never change.

Just finished watching the debate. Much better than the first Presidential Debate. I thought the questions and moderators presented fair inquires and held both candidates in relatively equal light.

 

If I would have to pick a winner for tonight's debate, I would have to go with Trump. He deflected a lot of criticism in a decent manner. Trump handled it much better than his first debate. Hillary just laughed or told people to check her Fact Checking Website when Trump would say something negative toward her or ask her to answer his question. It comes across to me as not caring about someone's question. My workplace includes many people asking me questions I find to be absolutely ridiculous, ones that go against all forms of common sense, but nevertheless I answer them with respect because the question is important to them.

 

I do have to say, the best line of the night was Hillary saying "it is a good thing that Mr. Trump is not in charge of the laws in the country". Trump then replied, “Because you’d be in jail,”. Cheers could then be heard from the crowd.

I hear a loud sigh of relief all over the country. If everyone saw the same debate I did, you have to believe right now Donald Trump is picking pieces of pant suit out of his teeth... because he had Hillary for a snack tonight. Excellent issue driven debate completely on point. I'm a very happy Conservative tonight. Can you believe we got that from CNN and CBS? The race is still alive!

I hear a loud sigh of relief all over the country. If everyone saw the same debate I did, you have to believe right now Donald Trump is picking pieces of pant suit out of his teeth... because he had Hillary for a snack tonight. Excellent issue driven debate completely on point. I'm a very happy Conservative tonight. Can you believe we got that from CNN and CBS? The race is still alive!

I was extremely impressed. Hillary had very few comments besides "he lies" or same rethoric we hear from her. Even the compliments, her sounded like a staged backhanded compliment and Trump sounded sincere. I expected a more fair moderator experience with Anderson Cooper being there than what we recieved but Trump did outstanding and calling them out on their bias, calling Hillary on her lies, and even ignoring the unimportant issues the moderators kept trying to press to push the actual issues at hands.

 

Hillarys points on things make no sense to me. Arm the Kurds? Has she forgotten a very decent amount of these Kurdish fighters are Iranian, a nation that continues to have growing hostility and is in a position that escalation could result in WW3 FROM HER AND OBAMA'S ACTIONS. Her issues with Obamacare, her response to the Muslim woman's question didnt really answer anything at all, her taking credit for how the aftermath of 9-11 was handled when a majority of that was Giuliani not her. The entire debate the only thing she mentioned I can give her any credit for is her and Bill allowing 8million.children to be covered. Granted in 30+years in the government, you'd hope she would do something right. Her blant disregard for the handling of classified intel and her emails. Did she not say in the beginning that her emails on a private, unsecure server were not hacked so no harm no foul, THEN at the middle she blames Russia for hacking her emails? Maybe I misheard but i'm fairly sure I didn't. Ill have to check Hillary.com to be sure. We all know the best source of factual information is from Hillary herself. Right?

To me it seems very much like Trump said all the things that his base wanted him to say. However overall he lost.

 

4 weeks from election day, a six point deficit in the polls, a campaign being abandoned by the party...merely saying what your base wants to hear is losing, especially if you have a fairly small base to start eith.Polls after the debate showed him the loser. Polls after the debate show a continued downward trend. The Republican Party is not going to drum out voters for him and he doesn't have the infrastructure to do it himself, and he failed to rally the party back to him.

 

His only saving grace is his advisors seem to have changed his twitter password to stop him trying to re fight the debate as he did after round 1.

To me it seems very much like Trump said all the things that his base wanted him to say. However overall he lost.

 

4 weeks from election day, a six point deficit in the polls, a campaign being abandoned by the party...merely saying what your base wants to hear is losing, especially if you have a fairly small base to start eith.Polls after the debate showed him the loser. Polls after the debate show a continued downward trend. The Republican Party is not going to drum out voters for him and he doesn't have the infrastructure to do it himself, and he failed to rally the party back to him.

 

His only saving grace is his advisors seem to have changed his twitter password to stop him trying to re fight the debate as he did after round 1.

There have been no polls released that were taken after the debate yet. There are 2 daily tracking polls... Rasmussen that tracks the previous 3 days which had Clinton +7 yesterday and has Clinton +5 today... and the L.A. Times poll that still has Trump +2 today... that poll tracks the same 3000 people to show who has momentum. Polling has been all over the place, and honestly it's not been very reliable. The only poll I saw that had Clinton winning that debate was the firmly in the tank for Clinton CNN poll... that 58% of the people polled were Democrats... throw in about 20% Independents and you can see how real it is.

 

It's an uphill climb for sure, but it's not as bad as it was on Saturday. The Republican Party will go where the Republicans take them. Don't buy into what the media wants to push... they have an agenda and only trying to influence soft minds. The establishment Republicans have never been with Trump, and they will jump off the train whenever the opportunity presents itself, but will jump back on when their own constituents tell them to.

 

From what it looks like to me... I still think Trump is losing this, but if he can get the message out that a vote for Trump is a vote to put Hillary Clinton in prison, that would be a winning campaign. He could stand on his desk in the Oval Office and scream locker room talk all he wants, and I would just smile... if he could succeed in that one small task.

 

He's still on Twitter so that's bullshit... I hate social media, but you're just making shit up. He's still filling stadiums. We will know more in a few days, and I'll be here to tell it like it is.

Both Yougov and CNN had Clinton winning the debate. There are no other polls, the "open access" polls might as well be ignored (although they keep Trump happy I suppose). Given that there are more democrats than Republicans atm, and given the crossbreak also had Clinton winning undecideds, however you cut the weightings, Trump did not win. You end up at best (for him) a draw, at worst a loss. Which given his current situation is bad. (for him)

 

As for shouting "you'd be in jail," reminding everyone that he has the opinions of a 3rd world dictator is not going to swing undecideds to him. You have to remember that people don't like Clinton....but they hate Trump more. 

 

 

You have to remember that people don't like Clinton....but they hate Trump more.

 

I don't know that that is as true as you seem to believe it is (based on this statement alone, maybe I'm reading more into than there really is).  There's a lot of hate for both in general, but I'm the exact opposite of what you stated.  I dislike Trump, but I despise Clinton and the things she has done.

 

In the end, it's going to depend on who can get people mobilized to go to the voting booth and check the box for them.

 

I'd say there's a pretty good chance that Trump can win that, looking at the public conferences he's had, seems like Trump supporters mobilize well.  But I also know that there are a lot of people that vote solely based on the letter after their name (R or D), and, if there are more democrats than republicans as you say (I don't look at statistics like that), then Hilary also has a chance.

 

 

I feel the names after (R or D) wont affect much. The mass majority of voters have always been undecided. As for the polling data, lets not forget that CNN has been exposed a few times in rigging their polls in favor of Hillary. A quick google search will pull up several articles on that.

 

I have to agree with hilowe though, the race is close and the winner is going to be whoever can mobile their support the best. Granted Trump can mobilize for massive rallies, so could Sanders and his voter turnout was not as good as his rally turn out. Hillary has a larger dedicated crowd in my opinion than Trump, so the more important aspect here is the undecided voters leanings that actual show up at the polls in battleground states. Those are roughly split down the middle, so I dont believe its a for sure win for anyone at this point as both candidates supports are flucuating this month. Really, at this point, there is enough evidence on both sides for the undecided to choose their version of lesser of two evils and a majority dont vote in these polls but rather the election itself. We'll know for sure after the 8th. Be sure though to go to hillary.com to hear about how 99% of the undecided support her. (Joke)

 

You have to remember that people don't like Clinton....but they hate Trump more.

I don't know that that is as true as you seem to believe it is (based on this statement alone, maybe I'm reading more into than there really is). There's a lot of hate for both in general, but I'm the exact opposite of what you stated. I dislike Trump, but I despise Clinton and the things she has done.

 

In the end, it's going to depend on who can get people mobilized to go to the voting booth and check the box for them.

 

I'd say there's a pretty good chance that Trump can win that, looking at the public conferences he's had, seems like Trump supporters mobilize well. But I also know that there are a lot of people that vote solely based on the letter after their name (R or D), and, if there are more democrats than republicans as you say (I don't look at statistics like that), then Hilary also has a chance.

Trump's favourability is worse than Clinton's than by a long way.

 

As for turnout Trump's organisation is pretty weak. Clinton has a much better network, and the full party organisation to back her. Trump is threadbare and has been ditched by his party.

I don't know who you have been talking with, but watching that misogynistic stink weasel stalk around the stage, hovering over Hillary, like he was going to mug her was profoundly disturbing to me and almost every woman I've talked with (including republican women). 

 

He performed better than he did in the first debate, which isn't saying much, but he was still incoherent at times, and he blatantly lied, brought up irrelevant topics like stuff about Hillary's husband's cheating on her (for which he apparently blames Hillary - bat poo crazy) whined that he Hillary's emails weren't brought up by the Mods, when they had already been brought up by the Mods, changed the subject in that slippery manner that all politicians seem to engage in when someone pins them down on things they don't want to discuss (HRC did this too). 

 

I don't know what debate you watched, but I felt sickened and ashamed by the man the republican party nominated to be the most powerful person in the world.

 

On another, related note, I'd like to ask you men in this thread how often you've bragged about attempting and failing to seduce a married woman while you were married?  Have any of you bragged about grabbing women by the vagina and/or grabbing women and kissing them?  Do you think this is locker room talk?  Have you heard this stuff in a locker room?  Also, are you aware that Trump made these remarks while at work, NOT in a locker room.  Does that matter? 

 

I am indeed sick to my stomach since yesterday -- not a joke, I'm home from work -- and I do hope you will not make me even sicker, but please be honest.

Oh one more thing:

 

http://www.vulture.com/2016/10/samantha-bee-breaks-down-the-debate-slams-trump.html?mid=facebook_nymag

Never said or heard similar in a locker room. Ever.

Canned memorized rhetoric about how much she cares, and directing any uncomfortable questions to her website, does not win a debate. Clinton got crushed. The tax return angle was totally neutralized. He didn't hover over Hillary, she walked in front of him, and someone had a good camera angle. Calling out the corrupt Justice Department doesn't make him a dictator... it makes him a hero.

 

This is a choice between a billionaire with a nasty mouth, and a career criminal that never tells the truth. Most of this country votes on emotion, fear, and personal greed. Because of this, I don't believe Trump can win this, but there is a few weeks to go and miracles sometimes happen. It's turnout on November 8th that will determine this.

 

Hey Icewolf... pick a state... call the DNC... tell them you're an American citizen living in the UK... I bet they send you a ballot. With Democrats, the ends justify the means. They love to cheat, and they never pass up a vote.

 

If anyone has 20 minutes and want to know who Hillary Clinton is, you can watch this.

If you just blindly support her, then no one can help you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kypl1MYuKDY

Canned memorized rhetoric about how much she cares, and directing any uncomfortable questions to her website, does not win a debate. Clinton got crushed. The tax return angle was totally neutralized. He didn't hover over Hillary, she walked in front of him, and someone had a good camera angle. Calling out the corrupt Justice Department doesn't make him a dictator... it makes him a hero.

 

This is a choice between a billionaire with a nasty mouth, and a career criminal that never tells the truth. Most of this country votes on emotion, fear, and personal greed. Because of this, I don't believe Trump can win this, but there is a few weeks to go and miracles sometimes happen. It's turnout on November 8th that will determine this.

 

Hey Icewolf... pick a state... call the DNC... tell them you're an American citizen living in the UK... I bet they send you a ballot. With Democrats, the ends justify the means. They love to cheat, and they never pass up a vote.

You didn't respond to my question.  I'll ask again:  I'd like to ask you men in this thread how often you've bragged about attempting and failing to seduce a married woman while you were married?  Have any of you bragged about grabbing women by the vagina and/or grabbing women and kissing them?  Do you think this is locker room talk?  Have you heard this stuff in a locker room?  Also, are you aware that Trump made these remarks while at work, NOT in a locker room.  Does that matter?

 

 

Calling out the corrupt Justice Department doesn't make him a dictator... it makes him a hero.

 

Promising to throw your political opponent in jail and sigh, whatever.  This says so miuch:

 http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/9/13222826/donald-trump-debate-clinton-jail-dictator

Trump now melting down again on Twitter...so even supposing that he gained some positive news spin from the debate (doubtful but supposing) he has now turned the media cycle back on himself, the Republicans that are disowning him, and by extension, the video that is crucifying him. And therefore neatly spinning Clinton out of the picture of the scandals. 

 

This, right here, is why he is going to lose. His grasp of basic political strategy is so weak. I used to think maybe there was some master plan, some clever trick or spin that was behind this...not since the general election campaign started in earnest. He is bleeding out.