78 replies to this topic

[Sister Midnight]

My friends, family, and I have spent the last year or so pondering the slogan "make America great again." In what era was it great, and why did it stop being great? I M asking the opinion of everyone here, American, or otherwise. Let's try to share opinions without denegrating other people's thoughts, please.

[SeaBeeGipson]

I feel it differs on peoples social and economic views.

To me, I feel our greatest time as a world power was the early-mid 1900s with a disgression after the 60s-70s. WW1 and WW2 were demonatrstions of our nations ability to conduct ourselves as a major player on the world stage. Not only with a massive, driven, ambitious military, but a large population at home that supported our efforts with everything they had. You had for the first time on the national stage (barring few examples like Harriet Tubman) women showing their ability to do things traditional views as male dominate. Women worked factories, served as nurses in war, ran businesses. You had minorities being given their first glimpse of rights. African American pilots that damn near put everyone else to shame. Immigrants flooded this country and produced marvels like the Manhattan Project. The 60s and 70s proved remarkable in our advancements in NASA technology but also art and music. Areas our country seemed to have lacked beforehand. The 60s and 70s, however, I felt was the beginning of our decrease in image. We were a world power, we influence every part of the world. We knew it and we took advantage with things like Vietnam. The civil rights battles of that time (granted I never live through it. I learned through others.) Show some true values of certain groups.

Without writing an essay, I'd say we were our greatest econominically and as a world power from 1910s to 1960s. As a social country, we didn't become grest until the 90s. And we keep improving. I feel the goal is to become that world power we were in the 40s and still hold the increase in civil rights we see today. The problem today is some have taken the view of equality as revenge. Every era has had its problems, our feel my generations problems is the need for revenge for problems we never caused/lived through. Why should I feel guilty for things I didn't cause?

Just my 2 cents.

[Fox Fire]

America has almost always been "great" and never stopped. "Make America great again" is just a nationalist slogan/rallying cry, implying a completely undefined problem. 

[DarkFox]

America has almost always been "great" and never stopped

 

 

Exactly this. I believe most people have unrealistic views on what we can achieve, and its not them overestimating. We shouldn't settle for great but instead go greater.

[Lysistrata]

Here's the answer to your question. This is the opening scene for the HBO series called "The Newsroom". Aaron Sorkin wrote this series, and after I saw this scene, I was in for the long haul. Because of this scene I watched this entire series from start to finish, even though it was entirely created to benefit the Democrats. The left slant of the show does not make this scene a lie. If you want to know what MAGA means... take the full 8+ minutes... and think about it before you begin to speak.

A few days ago... Aaron Sorkin wrote this hunk of shit. I guess the only thing he can still write are arguments with himself.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/aaron-sorkin-donald-trump-president-letter-daughter

[ccabal86]

That's a pretty bad article.

I guess I'm most upset about the hit the environment is going to take under a Trump administration, but in the end it might not matter much. At present rate the food chain could collapse in a century or so, and then things will be bad. Life on Earth will survive as it always have, but we as a species, or as a society will likely not. I doubt electing another president could have influenced that in earnerst, governments are not doing enough to avert the global catastrophe either way.

[onbekende]

some americans are just jealous that other nations are "gaining" on this preceived "greatness" they pocess.

 

can't call yourself "greatest" if others rival you, even if said rivaling is a good thing!

 

 

Here's the answer to your question. This is the opening scene for the HBO series called "The Newsroom". Aaron Sorkin wrote this series, and after I saw this scene, I was in for the long haul. Because of this scene I watched this entire series from start to finish, even though it was entirely created to benefit the Democrats. The left slant of the show does not make this scene a lie. If you want to know what MAGA means... take the full 8+ minutes... and think about it before you begin to speak.

A few days ago... Aaron Sorkin wrote this hunk of shit. I guess the only thing he can still write are arguments with himself.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/aaron-sorkin-donald-trump-president-letter-daughter

 

Seen that scene countless times already, only issue with you bringing "MAGA" to that scene is that most of the statistics being brought forward weren't all that "great" for the US whatever time in the past you wish to reminiscence about. Thinking about the past always goes with either pink or black shades.

 

also yes, that shows seems kinda democrat leaning, but thats cause it was rather easy to bash some tea party hicks then anything else .

[Lysistrata]

tea party hicks

Hey... watch who you're calling a "hick". We are the reason Republicans own the US Government now. It only took us 7 years. Starting January 20, you will begin to see what a proud and free USA can accomplish. It will be wonderful to have a full workforce again, with real affordable healthcare, earning 4% GDP once again.

 

I understand the fears about the climate change thing. It should have been obvious to everyone when science was suddenly getting mixed with politics... that it was a scam. Your governments have scared the daylights out of you for the purpose of global redistribution of wealth, and control of the population. I once saw a Jordanian pilot burned alive in a cage. I have seen a US soldier have his head cut off with a steak knife. These things should scare you more than a hockey stick graph, drawn by a guy paid by politicians, to draw hockey stick graphs.

[DeathMerchant]

I will withhold from writing some massive essay in regards to periods of greatness in our country, so I'm just going to stick to the basics and start at the 20th century.

 

To me, America became thrust into the global modern world immediately following World War 1. That is when our 'greatness' was achieved for the first time on a global scale. Modern society is all about globalization, which is why I feel this specific point in time is of the utmost importance in discussing America's power and greatness. From 1918 to 1929 America experienced growth, newfound wealth, and a great economy.

 

America loses some of its stature during The Great Depression, which hit in 1929 and lasted until 1939. While America itself was diminished, American citizens were still better off then most other countries throughout the world.

 

America enters World War 2, which we all know the Allies win. Into the 1950s America has a massive population growth, soldiers fresh out of the service are going to college, and modern society as we know it today is beginning.

 

Enter the 1960-1970s. We experience some downturn as a country, namely the Vietnam War and rioting. But also a lot of progress comes from those negative aspects. New technology, civil rights. While America isn't experiencing the rapid increase in greatness it did in earlier times, life for the average citizen is getting better.

 

The 1980s brings us better computers which are becoming more commonplace. We also begin to see the Warsaw Pact and USSR's influence beginning to fade. Times really got better once Reagan became President.

 

The 1990s were also good times for America as well as early 2000s.
 

It wasn't until 2007-present day when I felt America started going downhill again. Housing market crashed, people lost their retirement savings, health care cost went through the roof thanks to 'Obama Care', multiple terrorist attacks are happening in the US.

 

So to summarize, while I feel that America from time to time loses some of its influence and capitol, it still has been a phenomenally great country since 1918. All of this coming from a modern, globalization perspective.

[ccabal86]

I saw the videos you refer to in full graphic detail, and they are scary in their own right. It reaffirms that at its core human nature has't changed in the last few thousand years, even though we like to think we are past all that. The only thing keeping us from tearing eachother's throats out is our relative well-being

The graph is scary because it points in the direction of a global cataclysm not yet experienced by humanity. If such things can happen in time of relative stability, you really don't want to know what will happen under more extreme circumstances.

[Canik]

I understand the fears about the climate change thing. It should have been obvious to everyone when science was suddenly getting mixed with politics... that it was a scam. Your governments have scared the daylights out of you for the purpose of global redistribution of wealth, and control of the population. I once saw a Jordanian pilot burned alive in a cage. I have seen a US soldier have his head cut off with a steak knife. These things should scare you more than a hockey stick graph, drawn by a guy paid by politicians, to draw hockey stick graphs.

So what if it terrorism scares us more? Can a world without much terror and without much pollution not co-exist? We definitely do have to pollute some, sure, but are you saying we shouldn't worry at all about minimizing it? You do believe that pollution is a thing that exists and can happen, right?

I guess I'm most upset about the hit the environment is going to take under a Trump administration, but in the end it might not matter much. At present rate the food chain could collapse in a century or so, and then things will be bad. Life on Earth will survive as it always have, but we as a species, or as a society will likely not. I doubt electing another president could have influenced that in earnerst, governments are not doing enough to avert the global catastrophe either way.

Yeah that is one of my biggest concerns too. I really hope he doesn't void too many regulations concerning things like environment and consumer protection. I think there is hope he will be reasonable though. He used to be a democrat and can't be a total moron to get where he has. He already seems to be softening a bit on some of the extreme stances he took during the campaign. Like for one, now he says he has great respect for Obama.

I don't worry so much about our food supply getting destroyed though. That was predicted before by some scientist back in the day, forget his name, but he couldn't imagine the world supporting the current population we have, not even close.. yet here we are. Humans are very creative and food is very important. Though, if pollution does get too bad and water runs dry, etc.. yeah it might get really bad. I'd prefer to avoid finding out.

[ccabal86]

Agreed Canik, I think we'd have it way worse with some of the other Republican candidates. I believe Trump himself can be reasonable, despite his horrible personality, but he will have to cut a deal with the Republican establishment. He will have to be pro-establishment in some areas to be anti-establishment in others. Pundits are guessing he'll take a hard line on environmental issues to win favors for his protectionist economic policies, but we'll just have to wait and see.

My biggest concern is that environmental relations are not nearly as well understood as they should be and therefore making predictions are nearly impossible. What we DO know is that change is happening and it's bad. At this point we also know what's causing it. Exactly how it will play out is still a mystery, but understanding how oceans work will be key.

What's very worrying is the continuously rising temperature of the oceans, as they affect the planet the most including weather AND thesource of food

[Lysistrata]

The graph is scary because it points in the direction of a global cataclysm not yet experienced by humanity. If such things can happen in time of relative stability, you really don't want to know what will happen under more extreme circumstances

Don't think for a second that I am saying there will be no such thing as "global cataclysm", because there will be. This planet we live on has come to life, destroyed itself, come back to life, and destroyed itself... no less than 4 times in the last few billion years. What I am saying is it will happen again, and there is nothing we can do about it. It's not "climate change"... it's "planet change". We need to invest in a way to live off this planet before it dies again. NASA was pretty damn good at things like that.

 

At any time, the crust can burst open and fill our atmosphere with methane gas and kill everything. At any time, the sun can burp a flare and burn everything up... this is just a couple things that can go horribly wrong. Just be happy while you're here. No one ever thinks about how damn lucky we are to even be alive.

 

Canik... you are talking to me about pollution? You should have seen the Los Angeles basin in the early 70's... it was like trying to see through pea soup. We cleaned it all up for you. We did that. Now everyone says we didn't do enough. Yes we did.

[onbekende]

 

tea party hicks

Hey... watch who you're calling a "hick". We are the reason Republicans own the US Government now. It only took us 7 years. Starting January 20, you will begin to see what a proud and free USA can accomplish. It will be wonderful to have a full workforce again, with real affordable healthcare, earning 4% GDP once again.

 

 
.
The "hick" thing is something I picked up from american TV, blame them

 

The Republicans "owned" the US Government for like 4y already, the gridlock being a prime example.

 

"Full workforce"? You going full communist on us and giving everyone "a job"?

"real affordable healthcar"? Another full socialist idea, guess you want to slash "corporate" in 1 fell swoop. (unsure how you want ^^ to go then thou)

"earning 4% GDP"? With or without inflation adjustments for all? Also I hope you gonna put those 4% into diminishing your debt!
.

I understand the fears about the climate change thing. It should have been obvious to everyone when science was suddenly getting mixed with politics... that it was a scam. Your governments have scared the daylights out of you for the purpose of global redistribution of wealth, and control of the population. I once saw a Jordanian pilot burned alive in a cage. I have seen a US soldier have his head cut off with a steak knife. These things should scare you more than a hockey stick graph, drawn by a guy paid by politicians, to draw hockey stick graphs.

.

Science didn't ask to become political, it was the politicians that like to shun science that started making it political. The other side didn't help cause they suddenly saw a new $$ pit needed to be filled

 

Global warming won't end humanity, of that we can be fairly certain, but it sure will screw up our ecosystem AND mean though times ahead if we can soften the blow by both stopping "the hockey stick graph" AND make sure we can deal with ecological puzzles, related AND unrelated, to it.

 

A (muslim) terrorist scare me on a personal matter, global warming scare me on a societal level!

[Lysistrata]

The Republicans "owned" the US Government for like 4y already, the gridlock being a prime example.   "Full workforce"? You going full communist on us and giving everyone "a job"? "real affordable healthcar"? Another full socialist idea, guess you want to slash "corporate" in 1 fell swoop. (unsure how you want ^^ to go then thou) "earning 4% GDP"? With or without inflation adjustments for all? Also I hope you gonna put those 4% into diminishing your debt!

We have had the House for the last 6 years, and the Senate for the last 2 years. You can create Bills in Congress, but they can't sign them into law by themselves... only a President can do that, and a veto over-ride is a steep climb. Now a President can't do anything without a Congress, except Executive Orders... and that is why most everything Obama has done since 2010 will be easily eliminated. Don't go too far with that workforce/healthcare thing... the Republican Government will create the environment for growth, but our Capitalist society combined with our free market will do the heavy lifting.

[onbekende]

"free market"? This is new.

[Fox Fire]

 

The graph is scary because it points in the direction of a global cataclysm not yet experienced by humanity. If such things can happen in time of relative stability, you really don't want to know what will happen under more extreme circumstances

Don't think for a second that I am saying there will be no such thing as "global cataclysm", because there will be. This planet we live on has come to life, destroyed itself, come back to life, and destroyed itself... no less than 4 times in the last few billion years. What I am saying is it will happen again, and there is nothing we can do about it. It's not "climate change"... it's "planet change". We need to invest in a way to live off this planet before it dies again. NASA was pretty damn good at things like that.

 

At any time, the crust can burst open and fill our atmosphere with methane gas and kill everything. At any time, the sun can burp a flare and burn everything up... this is just a couple things that can go horribly wrong. Just be happy while you're here. No one ever thinks about how damn lucky we are to even be alive.

 

Canik... you are talking to me about pollution? You should have seen the Los Angeles basin in the early 70's... it was like trying to see through pea soup. We cleaned it all up for you. We did that. Now everyone says we didn't do enough. Yes we did.

 

The bigger concern is the Holocene extinction event which is entirely in our hands. And just because climate change is more outside our hands, doesn't mean we should ignore it. India took an ass whooping with heat waves this year. Not sure how many people died but I believe it's at least over 1,000. When pavement starts turning into soup, that's not good.

[Lysistrata]

This is currently the headline of The Drudge Report. Hilarious.

[ccabal86]

I will admit, that video is amusing

[Lysistrata]

Ted Cruz was seen at Trump Tower today. I doubt very seriously they were getting together to reminisce about their enjoyable primary adventure. There could only be two reasons for his visit with the incoming President. He is probably a leading choice for the Supreme Court vacancy... or could be the choice for Attorney General since Rudy Giuliani has said he will not be the AG.

 

Senator Ted Cruz would be a phenomenal choice for either position. I'm sure he would skate through Senate confirmation for SCOTUS, because the Senate would love to get rid of him... for life. I was thinking Trey Gowdy would be the best choice for AG, but Ted would be a valuable ally in Justice, and it would help Ted a lot in the future if he wanted to run again for President. Things are starting to look very good for this administration.