894 replies to this topic

[Electric Mango]

I am just someone. You must want the town to lose.

Not a very strong defense.

I consider you a very intelligent player. We have always strongly disagreed about lynching on Day 1 but I still have thought of you as a strong asset to the town because you have been very good at breaking things down later in the game. I haven't seen that style of play from you this game, as Falzis has already said.

I really expected more detailed analysis from you as we are nearing a very critical time for the town. Your above quote is far less than what I am used to seeing from you. Why the difference in playing style?

VOTE COUNT
Falzis (3): KevinH, Theophilos, CanucksDynasty
KevinH (3): Falzis, Sir Jesus, Narsis
Sir Jesus (1): Electric Mango
Electric Mango (1): Martino

Not Voting (2): Kaziocore, Aquinas

DEADLINE IS IN 2 DAYS.

Edited by molestargazer, 21 July 2009 - 03:36 PM.

[KevinH]

You could be really a townie but really, I haven't heard a systematic or comprehensive defense from you. When a suspicion is thrown your way you either shrug it off or give a short post.

Plus if I remember correctly your meta games, you post quite succinctly possible scenarios that could arise from different actions. I haven't seen that anywhere during this whole game.

Not a very strong defense.

I consider you a very intelligent player. We have always strongly disagreed about lynching on Day 1 but I still have thought of you as a strong asset to the town because you have been very good at breaking things down later in the game. I haven't seen that style of play from you this game, as Falzis has already said.

I really expected more detailed analysis from you as we are nearing a very critical time for the town. Your above quote is far less than what I am used to seeing from you. Why the difference in playing style?

Anyone's suspicion on me is just like mine on anyone. There's not much upon which to go.

Want a stronger defense?

Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm a townie and you just have to believe me. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm the one trying to find the scum while everyone else is doing nothing. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm a townie! Please, please, please don't vote for me. I didn't vote to lynch a townie while others have. Please, please, please don't vote for me. If you lynch me, you'll be sorry. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I am trying to win the game for the town and those that oppose me must be scum. Please, please, please don't vote for me!

Is that better?

I find it interesting that the two players that voted for Sojourner the townie on day 1 are the ones saying they expect more from me.

One more time, here's my analysis:

Day 1
Sojourner (2): Falzis, Electric Mango
Day 2
Sojourner (6): Falzis, Narsis, Electric Mango, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Sir Jesus

Sojourner was townie. Draw your own conclusions.

[KevinH]

3 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
3 Members: KevinH, Electric Mango, Falzis

:read:

[Falzis]

Anyone's suspicion on me is just like mine on anyone. There's not much upon which to go.

Want a stronger defense?

Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm a townie and you just have to believe me. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm the one trying to find the scum while everyone else is doing nothing. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm a townie! Please, please, please don't vote for me. I didn't vote to lynch a townie while others have. Please, please, please don't vote for me. If you lynch me, you'll be sorry. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I am trying to win the game for the town and those that oppose me must be scum. Please, please, please don't vote for me!

Is that better?

I find it interesting that the two players that voted for Sojourner the townie on day 1 are the ones saying they expect more from me.

One more time, here's my analysis:

Day 1
Sojourner (2): Falzis, Electric Mango
Day 2
Sojourner (6): Falzis, Narsis, Electric Mango, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Sir Jesus

Sojourner was townie. Draw your own conclusions.

Two answers. Trivializing our comment, and simplistic finger pointing.

You could defend yourself the same way I've defended myself when I came back. Plus, I could actually say the same thing to you and Theophilos.

But in my defense, and not of EM's, all of my actions are independent of his. Although I have noticed his conspicuous and suspicious timing of reinforcing what I do or say. Rest assured if you do turn out to be townie, EM is the next on my chopping block.

[CanucksDynasty]

Wasn't it between Falzis and KevinH on D2 until soj became the flavoured target?

[Electric Mango]

I'm leaving my vote where it is for now. If it becomes a two horse race between Falzis and KevinH I will be switching my vote to Kevin.

Rest assured if you do turn out to be townie, EM is the next on my chopping block.

Well that wasn't very nice

3 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
3 Members: KevinH, Electric Mango, Falzis

:read:

Why did you post this?

[Electric Mango]

VOTE COUNT
Falzis (4): Martino, Theophilos, KevinH, sojourner
KevinH (3): Sir Jesus, Aquinas, Narsis
Nerau (1): Electric Mango
sojourner (1): Falzis

Not Voting (3): Nerau, partyin01, Kaziocore

VOTE COUNT
sojourner (6): Falzis, Narsis, Electric Mango, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Sir Jesus
Falzis (4): Martino, Theophilos, KevinH, sojourner

Not Voting (2): Nerau, partyin01

With 12 alive, 7 votes are needed to lynch.
4 needed to lynch at deadline.

Wasn't it between Falzis and KevinH on D2 until soj became the flavoured target?

Yes it was

[Electric Mango]

I find it interesting that the two players that voted for Sojourner the townie on day 1 are the ones saying they expect more from me.

One more time, here's my analysis:

Day 1
Sojourner (2): Falzis, Electric Mango
Day 2
Sojourner (6): Falzis, Narsis, Electric Mango, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Sir Jesus

Sojourner was townie. Draw your own conclusions.

You've been voting for Falzis a lot also. By your logic, if Falzis is lynched and found to be a townie, should we then conclude that you are scum?

[CanucksDynasty]

Now I'm really confused...

This doesn't help.
Why bother posting this unless you want to portray as a newbie?
In fact...I'm more certain that you are scum by you posting this.

[CanucksDynasty]

Vote: KevinH

And the reason is because....

[CanucksDynasty]

@Kaziocore & Aquinas - it seems that it will come down to Falzis and KevinH. Out of those 2...who would you vote for and give reasons why.

[CanucksDynasty]

@mole - what time is deadline on Thursday....I want to make sure I read up on all the posts before then...just in case there is some new development that may change my mind/vote.

[KevinH]

Why did you post this?

I thought it was interesting that the three of us were active at the same time.

You've been voting for Falzis a lot also. By your logic, if Falzis is lynched and found to be a townie, should we then conclude that you are scum?

Possibly.

I've given rationale for my votes. It might be wrong but it's the best we have at the time.

My votes that lynch townies should be held to the same scrutiny as everyone elses'. At this point, I have zero wrong votes. What's your score?

[Falzis]

Oohh I just noticed from EM's quote of voting patterns on D2 that Kaziocore was the only one who didn't vote for KevinH amongst those who voted for sojourner. If KevinH turns out to be scum, we can look towards the direction of Kaziocore.

[Aquinas]

@Kaziocore & Aquinas - it seems that it will come down to Falzis and KevinH. Out of those 2...who would you vote for and give reasons why.

Hey there sorry. Well, I've been on KevinH's back this entire time. The first day I came very close to lynching him, although in retrospect that would have been silly. I disagreed with him but, he did nothing scummy. On Day 2 He had a hard time defending himself against Falzis's accusations. He broke down into some short and quick posts that said basically, "I'm not scum, believe me because its true." Falzis pointed that out recently,

You could be really a townie but really, I haven't heard a systematic or comprehensive defense from you. When a suspicion is thrown your way you either shrug it off or give a short post.

However, I am no longer convinced. I think I just have some issues with KevinH's play style non of which are scum tells. I don't like his defense and smugness here,

Anyone's suspicion on me is just like mine on anyone. There's not much upon which to go.

Want a stronger defense?

Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm a townie and you just have to believe me. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm the one trying to find the scum while everyone else is doing nothing. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I'm a townie! Please, please, please don't vote for me. I didn't vote to lynch a townie while others have. Please, please, please don't vote for me. If you lynch me, you'll be sorry. Please, please, please don't vote for me. I am trying to win the game for the town and those that oppose me must be scum. Please, please, please don't vote for me!

Is that better?

And other such cases. Also, we have some strategy differences. However, this doesn't make him scum. He is much more experienced than me and I should keep that in mind. Further, I do not like the cases brought against him. I don't think there is sufficient evidence to lynch him thus, why I haven't actually voted for him thus far. The arguments that have been made against him as far as I can tell are

You could be really a townie but really, I haven't heard a systematic or comprehensive defense from you. When a suspicion is thrown your way you either shrug it off or give a short post.

and

I believe he has a greater chance at being scum. He was misleading with his quote from mafia scum, as well as the little incident where he was accused of misleading the town again by Falzis.

This is not evidence as far as I am concerned. We need to get passed gut checks at this point in the game, seeing as we've lynched two townies. Falzis, maybe KevinH has nothing to defend. Maybe he has no need for a long dramatic post to prove his innocence because he is afterall innocent until proven guilty which your long dramatic posts have not done. What is it exactly he is defending? I think he play style has reflected throughout this game as "I am townie. Believe it and deal with it". I don't think there has been a legitimate attack on his scumness to warrant a high magnitude defense. Especially if the only evidence that we have on him is what Electric Mango has pointed out. The quote he mislead with was incredibly insignificant. There are much more convincing arguments for others, which I will get to. he linked the whole page and used an excerpt to prove his point. He point of citing that source was so you could examine it yourself and disagree with it. Thats not misleading. The second incident you are referring to is not misleading either. It was just Falzis and KevinH disagreeing about inactive players.

Falzis, thus far has impressed me. I'm not convinced he is town in the least but, he has built quality arguments that have been able to guide the town. Where he is guiding the town I am not sure. We had this debate Day 2 between Falzis and KevinH and I took his side because he was more articulate, but thats no longer relevant. I have dismissed this as a criteria because KevinH just doesn't post home run posts, hes a contact swinger and I like that. However, if I'm not convinced of KevinH as scum than I'm not convinced of Falzis for the same reason. I said there isn't enough evidence against Falzis to lynch either. I have not seen a convincing argument for his execution. What is your reasoning CannucksDynasty? You've got a vote on him and I am not sure of your reasoning.

Your poor reasons for voting soj.
That you, Kaziocore and SJ are somehow linked.

Nothing you have said and done has dissuaded Theo and KevinH vote on you.
And it hasn't changed my opinion on you as well.

In response he asked

Also, you don't state what the link between the three of us is. Is it because we all voted for soj?

It would really help to be more clear with what you say. I'm not liking short posts from you or Kevin.

You never answer from what I could find. You asked again for who he would vote for. I don't think you or anyone has provided adequate evidence against Falzis.

I reject your intention of my vote for either KevinH or Falzis because I can not find evidence for either. If I had to choose? I'd flip a coin.

However, I do intend to vote for someone as the night draws near. I like Martino am not satisfied with Electric Mango. His proposal to have the strong doctor role claim was very strange. I didn't see any validity in it and if it were a player who wasn't aware of the faults of the strategy they could have just bowed down and said it. I believe that was the intention. Electric Mango has defended, agreed with and used Falzis to assert his arguments the entire game. He was reluctant to weigh in on his proposed reveal of the doctor about whether it was a good idea or not. He asked us to say whether it was a good idea or not without all the information and then refused to do it himself without substantial pestering. I think Falzis and Electric Mango are scum. If there is a third I am unsure of who that might be. I find that the only person with more than a "he said she said" accusation or defense on their head is Electric Mango. Their consistent targeting of Sojourner which i fell victim to on Day 2 is another tie which binds their interests. There was so little evidence for him on day one I don't understand how its a coincidence they happened upon their votes together. Then, Electric Mango voted for him again on Day 2 with Falzis' direction. It seems these two are playing a game together. I have not seen enough evidence to pin a lynch on Falzis however, I am suspicious. Electric Mango's voting record for Sojourner, his arguments with Falzis and his discussion of a strategy which had obvious flaws his experience should have detected put him at the top of my list.

Vote: Electric Mango
FOS: Falzis

[Aquinas]

Oohh I just noticed from EM's quote of voting patterns on D2 that Kaziocore was the only one who didn't vote for KevinH amongst those who voted for sojourner. If KevinH turns out to be scum, we can look towards the direction of Kaziocore.

You and Electric Mango voted and built a case against Sojourner twice. He was a townie. I'll keep my eyes on the two of you for now.

[Falzis]

This is the second time you have confused me Sir Aquinas (I posted a while back early on D3 about one of your posts that confuse me).

First you said you're not convinced of my scuminess when compared to KevinH yet in the same breath and post you say that I you think me and EM are scum. So which is which really?

And if you think EM is scum for doing everything I've done, shouldn't I be the first one you vote for instead of him?

And your defense of KevinH not defending himself is simplistic as well. You say maybe he has nothing to defend for, that we should presume everyone innocent until proven guilty. I say otherwise. Everyone is presumed scum except for themselves and should prove their townie alignment as the days progress. Plus, even if a townie is innocent, quality defenses could still be given.

All I ask is an analysis from KevinH why he couldn't be scum based from his actions, non-actions, and voting patterns. I think it's a fair demand since I did the same when I came back from V/LA. I posted three reasons, one of which perfectly absolves me even if I voted to lynch a townie (the cost-benefit analysis it's on page 24-26 I think).

KevinH didn't answer his internal contradiction stating he agreed my defense of my innocence was solid, and he really couldn't argue against it but in the same breath say I'm still scum. It's one or the either.

Much like your own contradiction. It's either you believe there's not much evidence I am scum enough for you to vote for me OR you believe I am scum by association with EM. You can't believe both.

FOS: Aquinas

[Falzis]

However, if I'm not convinced of KevinH as scum than I'm not convinced of Falzis for the same reason.

I think Falzis and Electric Mango are scum.

EBWOP: Evidence of Logical Implosion

[Aquinas]

First you said you're not convinced of my scuminess when compared to KevinH yet in the same breath and post you say that I you think me and EM are scum. So which is which really?

I am not convinced of your scuminess. Thats why I am not voting for you. I am convinced of Electric Mango's scuminess. I am voting for him. I think you are both scum. I think you are both scum but as I go on to say I have no concrete evidence that you or KevinH are convincingly scum. That is not the case with Electric Mango, as I pointed out in the end of my previous post. I leave room to question the actions of both you and KevinH. To rephrase,

I am not satisfied with the evidence for the lynching of Falzis or KevinH.
Although I think both have demonstrated scummy actions I can not be convinced by their arguments.
I am satisfied with the evidence to lynch Electric Mango.
I am convinced Electric Mango is scum.
There is more than one scum.
Falzis and Electric Mango have an argumentative and voting relationship.
I think Falzis is in league with Electric Mango.
I think Falzis is scum.

I think you are having trouble understanding that when I used the phrases "I think" and "I am convinced" I did not mean them to indicate the same degree of knowledge.

And if you think EM is scum for doing everything I've done, shouldn't I be the first one you vote for instead of him?

I do not think he is scum for that reason. You did not purpose that doctor reveal strategy which is a big part of my voting for him. His actions in relation to that discussion are his own, entirely. You have no further scum tells except for your dealings with Electric Mango and your general aggressiveness to make accusations. This is not a scum tell. Before you go on a rant about how you're the only one benefiting the town because you are so aggressive remember I never said that makes you scum. It just makes you specific as you well know. Sticking your head out their makes you a target. Now that you have done that and Sojourner turned up scum my spotlight is on you as you no doubt knew it would be.

And your defense of KevinH not defending himself is simplistic as well. You say maybe he has nothing to defend for, that we should presume everyone innocent until proven guilty. I say otherwise. Everyone is presumed scum except for themselves and should prove their townie alignment as the days progress. Plus, even if a townie is innocent, quality defenses could still be given.

I disagree with your process of scum hunting. Thats irrelevant and would distract our scum hunting, however we go about it. Its a difference in strategy not a scum tell. Yes, a solid defense can always be made to a solid argument. I don't think anyone has pinned more than a "you did this and it seems scummy" argument on KevinH. He has built logical deductions to his innocence when necessary but they are not necessary to quell your feelings.

However, if I'm not convinced of KevinH as scum than I'm not convinced of Falzis for the same reason.

I think Falzis and Electric Mango are scum.

I think you're just trying to make me sound like a fool here. I may have been unclear, I am not convinced of your scuminess although I think it is likely. I meant to convey that "I think" and "I am convinced" are two different degrees of certainty.

[Narsis]

[KevinH] has built logical deductions to his innocence when necessary but they are not necessary to quell your feelings.

logical deductions? where?


on a side note: why is it only CD that asked for my reasoning behind my vote on Kevin?

on another side note: why hasn't Martino posted lately? i would like to hear his opinions of what's going on. sitting in the background won't do much good now.