864 replies to this topic

[Rhizoctonia]

 

 

1. Low chance of an investigation to target a framed person. Isn't that like the point of a framer role? A small chance is still a chance nonetheless, if I were scum and my scum friend got shot by a random investigation I'd also say this. Not cool, Rhizo.

 

It's a little more then .5% chance, the fact you're experienced player and are being this ridiculous is telling of itself.  You know damn well the likelihood of this, and also know the chances of a framer are higher if there a few targets that are either arguing or disputing one another that a cop would likely pick....for which didn't happen D1.  I don't care to continue to argue with someone who is being purposefully obtuse. 

 

It's okay to say that the probability is low, but using it as the main reason for suspicion? Now that is suspicious.

 

 

 

2. iSoc's baiting town PRs to role claim, such as Doctor or SBG's role. Very unlikely. Scum team is already down by one person this early and their current priority is to make sure at least one person looks like a credible townie. Sacrificing yet another scum member to get some mere information on town PRs aren't very useful.

 

Wait, so not but a few sentences above you talk about scum killing one of their own to help others...and then shortly thereafter, you write this and say they wouldn't do this they're down a person already.  So you're suggesting they would sacrifice their own to help a fellow scum, while then saying they wouldn't sacrifice their own to force people to RC, gain a lot of intel, and at the minimum narrow down the cop.  Nice logic.

 

You've already made your bed with Isocialism Lyner.  Better hope Isocialism is telling the truth.

 

It makes perfect sense in my mind because I'm open to the possibility that both you and iSoc are scums, with you bussing iSoc. Suppose iSoc the scum deliberately fake an RC, and you're doing your best to kill him. What happened when iSoc is revealed as scum? Boom! town credential for Rhizo. Unlikely scenario? Yes. Is it possible? Also yes.

 

Anyway, what does it matter? The point stands that iSoc has no reason to RC even if he was scum. Doctor, really? He'd have a better chance by claiming as a one-shot Cop so scum can pinpoint the true cop. And roleblocked SBG? He practically kills himself if SBG turned out to have an active role that receives actual, proofable result last night. Wanna help me calculate the chance of scum hitting a VT?

 

The only potential benefit for scums is that town might mislynch one townie, before town kills the exposed scum. Not a very good investment.

 

 

Yeah your threat sounds precisely like MK's.

 

 

 

You're open to both being scum, then you go right back into defending him.  You're the one protecting him, but I guess at this point you have to have a plan B in case he does get lynched and found to be scum for trying to shift suspicion away from you.  In regards to SBG, scum could of quite as easily have a role cop and investigated SBG N1, thus knowing he's a safe spot to claim such.  And the chances of scum hitting a VT...I don't know that, as I am unaware of how many VT's are present.  But we have now 2 claimed VT's basically, as WP said he doesn't have another role outside neighbor and now SBG claims to be....so going off just that and excluding that their might be more, 1/6..16% chance, still a whole lot more then .5%.

[SeaBeeGipson]

Just be aware of the votes being casted as we don't want to end the day early.

Isocialism. You can't just state your results and expect people not to realize a RC. Beyond that, You state LS was guilty (but say he might not be a scum) and I was roleblocked the same day a kill didn't occur (which indicates I'd be a scum.) Then you try to say you never said either of us were scum. While that's true you didn't outright say it, it was implied. You can't hide behind loopholes to save yourself.

We have a few scenarios on what happened.

1. Isocialism is a JoAT and LS is scum who was correctly investigated N1 and I'm scum who had a kill blocked N2. My input on this out of over 10 possible targets at any given occassion, You expect us to believe you were lucky enough to use both roles correctly? A random shot to find scum had about a 20-25% chance on N1 and blocking a kill, even lower.

2. Isocialism is a JoAT and LS was framed. As far ss blocking me in this situation it would mean I was blocked from a kill, we have an extremely inactive scum team, a doctor protected the correct target, or we have another roleblocking/bulletproof ability in play, or even a travelling role. (I forgot the name to the role that can travel away at night, but I had it Game 1. So TW has used it in the first HP game.)
This leaves a number of reasons on why the kill didn't happen, but I'm only sure one isn't the reason. The more important part of this is LS being framed. It would mean both Isoc and the scum framer hit the same exact target, on a rushed N1, with no indication or evidence that LS had any reason to be framed or investigated. It was 2 shots in the dark that matched. This is about as believable as Isocialism hitting 2 targets in a row correctly with 2 roles.

3. Isocialism is lying, and is trying to force role claims. We all are pretty sure WP and FS are town due to the neighbors event yesterday and us hitting the correct neighbor. Why he would target LS and myself however, I'm not really sure. My late switch would add scum points in my book. I explained my late switch, but it wasn't until after Isocialism came out. So how would he have known my reasoning. LS on the otherhand, I'm not sure. Maybe he seen a vulnerability we havent. On top of this, he knew LS was guilty from D2 and never EVEN hinted to it. His behavior today has even marked more suspicion as far as his reasoning to these accusations.

Maybe there are more possibilities that exist. To me, I really feel Isocialism is lying. The bonus is were in an extra good spot. No kill and a scum strongman killed. This strongman role is why I mentioned the possibility of a bulletproof. Maybe SLMK was claiming it to see if a bulletproof would show himself. Again these are all speculations at this point.

Also a side note, just as I seen a previous note about it. Rhizo usually increases activity (along with others) over the weekend. I don't feel anyone should be getting heat for an increase in activity on a weekend (A weekday would be suspcious.) However, multiple members silence on a weekend is pretty damning in and of itself. You guys know who you are..

[iSocialism]

No, LS is scum. Never have I said he's not. Dare you to find where I did. I never said your were when I posted my results. Just saying that I role blocked you. As for my comment about RCing. I realize my results implies heavy what my role is. Bit I still haven't REALLY RCed. Because I don't need to. So again LS is scum you were role blocked or at least I targeted you.

LS is open to the idea of there being a framer, but also to the notion that he was framed. How do you feel about my results of SBG. You haven't talked about that yet.

As to WP I blended my days together in that post. I voted for you, because at that time I had my n1 results. LS was scum and was voting for slmk. You were not innocent IMO at that time. You are now along with FS. With LS voting for SLMK furthering the gap between you and him in the wagon race. It look to me LS was coming to save you. What was I supposed to do?

[LordSunday]

No, LS is scum. Never have I said he's not. Dare you to find where I did. I never said your were when I posted my results. Just saying that I role blocked you. As for my comment about RCing. I realize my results implies heavy what my role is. Bit I still haven't REALLY RCed. Because I don't need to. So again LS is scum you were role blocked or at least I targeted you.

LS is open to the idea of there being a framer, but also to the notion that he was framed. How do you feel about my results of SBG. You haven't talked about that yet.

As to WP I blended my days together in that post. I voted for you, because at that time I had my n1 results. LS was scum and was voting for slmk. You were not innocent IMO at that time. You are now along with FS. With LS voting for SLMK furthering the gap between you and him in the wagon race. It look to me LS was coming to save you. What was I supposed to do?

 

You again completely disregard the possibility that you, iSoc, were wrong in the results you received. I ask you, if I were scum, why would I have placed my vote onto MK (my only vote of the day) when he had less votes then WP? I believe my vote even caused the count to become a tie again. If I were a scum, would it not be more logical that I'd hide in the front or back of the wagon, where my vote has less impact on the scheme of things?

 

Once again, the fact that you completely refuse to acknowledge all the possibilities just shows me you are desperately trying to get me lynched. I wonder, general question to others; is there a type of role who has a win condition that they must get a certain player lynched? If so, is that role possibly in effect for this game? It would possibly make sense why the sudden target of me, and desperation to lynch me while refusing to acknowledge other scenarios.

[iSocialism]

Don't want to talk about sbg? It's easy WP would have been lynched and proven a town. While SLMK would have not.

[Lyner]

You're open to both being scum, then you go right back into defending him.  You're the one protecting him, but I guess at this point you have to have a plan B in case he does get lynched and found to be scum for trying to shift suspicion away from you.  In regards to SBG, scum could of quite as easily have a role cop and investigated SBG N1, thus knowing he's a safe spot to claim such.  And the chances of scum hitting a VT...I don't know that, as I am unaware of how many VT's are present.  But we have now 2 claimed VT's basically, as WP said he doesn't have another role outside neighbor and now SBG claims to be....so going off just that and excluding that their might be more, 1/6..16% chance, still a whole lot more then .5%.

 

I'm keeping that possibilty open in the air if iSoc is truly scum and for some reason I got lynched the next day.

 

Oh so 16% chance is an acceptable risk for a totally useless RC?

And again, assuming scum role copped SBG on night 1, then why would iSoc the scum claimed to have roleblocked SBG last night? We can just lynch SBG and when he is turned out VT it is game over for iSoc. It's much better to claim cop and found out SBG is guilty so the true cop might show up.

[Rhizoctonia]

And again, assuming scum role copped SBG on night 1, then why would iSoc the scum claimed to have roleblocked SBG last night? We can just lynch SBG and when he is turned out VT it is game over for iSoc. It's much better to claim cop and found out SBG is guilty so the true cop might show up.

 

 

Because there was no kill?  Claiming he roleblocked SBG on a night there was no kill then puts heat on SBG, and brings forth the possibility that his RB stopped the kill from happening.  If scum team knew SBG had no role then they know he's a safe place to claim such on, as he doesn't have an action he could of used to prove him wrong.  

[iSocialism]

I still haven't claim SBG to be scum. I could have role blocked anyone and if the doc pick was right... SBG should live and shouldn't be our concern right now. LS came up as a death eater. He's the one we should be talking about/me as well. Anything else is an unnecessary distraction and shouldn't be looked at right now. My only thing is don't believe anyone when they say I acted scummy after my lynch. I've done nothing but provide talking. When I could have been silent. Make your choice and stick with it. It will be the choice you have to defend tomorrow, and be judge by.

[Rhizoctonia]

And again, assuming scum role copped SBG on night 1, then why would iSoc the scum claimed to have roleblocked SBG last night? We can just lynch SBG and when he is turned out VT it is game over for iSoc. It's much better to claim cop and found out SBG is guilty so the true cop might show up.

 

 

 

To add to this, you're suggesting doing something that once again avoids knowing for sure if Isocialism is scum or not.  Suggesting we lynch SBG helps us figure out absolutely nothing if he comes up VT, or maybe a limited role he did not use last night.

 

Say we lynch SBG and he does come up VT?  What does that prove?  I know what Isocialism's next play is going to be...he's going to state he only said he Roleblocked SBG not that his roleblock stopped the kill last night, and that well it must of been out doctor who guessed right and continue to claim he's town.  Lynching SBG doesn't mean game over for Isocialism and you know this, it leaves plenty "unknowns" out there that Isocialism can claim is he's scum from doctor must of guessed correct, or someone else roleblocked the right guy, or someone had a bulletproof ability, or so on.  If we lynch SBG and he comes town, we're back to the same deliemma we're at now tomorrow, who is the scum, Isocialism or Ls.  

 

The only option at this point that should be looking at is either voting Isocialism or LS.  Who people want to go with, they can pick, but the only way we're going to know is by lynching either of them and examining the fallout the next day.  

 

Lynch Isocialism:  

 

Town - We know LS is scum.  LS will claim framer.  SBG is not necessarily proven scum or town, but leaves the possibility Isocialism picked right on his RB

 

Scum -  We know LS is town, SBG likely as well

 

Lynch LS:

Town - We know Isocialism is scum.  He will claim framer.  SBG is likely town

 

Scum - Isocialism is likely town, SBG could be scum.

[FS108]

 

And again, assuming scum role copped SBG on night 1, then why would iSoc the scum claimed to have roleblocked SBG last night? We can just lynch SBG and when he is turned out VT it is game over for iSoc. It's much better to claim cop and found out SBG is guilty so the true cop might show up.

 

 

 

To add to this, you're suggesting doing something that once again avoids knowing for sure if Isocialism is scum or not.  Suggesting we lynch SBG helps us figure out absolutely nothing if he comes up VT, or maybe a limited role he did not use last night.

 

Say we lynch SBG and he does come up VT?  What does that prove?  I know what Isocialism's next play is going to be...he's going to state he only said he Roleblocked SBG not that his roleblock stopped the kill last night, and that well it must of been out doctor who guessed right and continue to claim he's town.  Lynching SBG doesn't mean game over for Isocialism and you know this, it leaves plenty "unknowns" out there that Isocialism can claim is he's scum from doctor must of guessed correct, or someone else roleblocked the right guy, or someone had a bulletproof ability, or so on.  If we lynch SBG and he comes town, we're back to the same deliemma we're at now tomorrow, who is the scum, Isocialism or Ls.  

 

The only option at this point that should be looking at is either voting Isocialism or LS.  Who people want to go with, they can pick, but the only way we're going to know is by lynching either of them and examining the fallout the next day.  

 

Lynch Isocialism:  

 

Town - We know LS is scum.  LS will claim framer.  SBG is not necessarily proven scum or town, but leaves the possibility Isocialism picked right on his RB

 

Scum -  We know LS is town, SBG likely as well

 

Lynch LS:

Town - We know Isocialism is scum.  He will claim framer.  SBG is likely town

 

Scum - Isocialism is likely town, SBG could be scum.

 

We never know to we all do an investigation 

[LordSunday]

We're a decent way into the day if possible could we get an updated vote list?

 

The only option at this point that should be looking at is either voting Isocialism or LS. Who people want to go with, they can pick, but the only way we're going to know is by lynching either of them and examining the fallout the next day. Lynch Isocialism: Town - We know LS is scum. LS will claim framer. SBG is not necessarily proven scum or town, but leaves the possibility Isocialism picked right on his RB Scum - We know LS is town, SBG likely as well Lynch LS: Town - We know Isocialism is scum. He will claim framer. SBG is likely town Scum - Isocialism is likely town, SBG could be scum.

 

I don't exactly agree with this, and the fact you're trying to make it black and white like this makes me a little suspicious of you Rhizo. If you were scum, you would know for sure if iSoc/myself were town or not. Since you've placed your vote on iSoc, I'm led to believe you know he's town.

 

After this, you led forward stating probabilities to set up this frame that one of us MUST be scum, however you may very well know both of us are town. You're in a prime position to call for two townies to get lynched on D3 and D4.

 

I agree that iSoc and myself are in a big spotlight right now, but you're trying very hard to make it appear one of us must be scum, when you very well might know we're both town and are using this to your advantage and get us both killed.

 

FoS: Rhizo

[KevinH]

Here are my thoughts.

 

Anything that "a scum wouldn't do" is exactly what the scum should do so I am not convinced by any of those arguments.

 

Regarding probabilities, there's always a chance an event will occur, no matter how small the probability, just ask any lottery winner.

 

I normally like to quantify things giving townie points and such, and maybe I will later, but there is one thing that really stands out that I can't ignore.  iSocialism claims to have found scum during Night 1 but gives no hint of it during Day 2.  That just doesn't seem right.

 

Vote: iSocialism

[iSocialism]

I don't need the attention, and a free floating scum would provide better info than a pressured one. I done it before heavy pressure someone, and got quiet and didn't provide any leads. It's a win win for scum if LS is town. You lynch me, and get another freebie. Right now though you're voting for a JOAT (there's my actual non-implying role claim), Versus his accused. In which as it stands could be scum could be town, though scum.

LS you have defended me, and pretty much claimed me as town, so what about my results on SBG. How do you feel about that? Why haven't you added pressure to someone if you believe we are both town.

[Rhizoctonia]

We're a decent way into the day if possible could we get an updated vote list?

 

 

 

The only option at this point that should be looking at is either voting Isocialism or LS. Who people want to go with, they can pick, but the only way we're going to know is by lynching either of them and examining the fallout the next day. Lynch Isocialism: Town - We know LS is scum. LS will claim framer. SBG is not necessarily proven scum or town, but leaves the possibility Isocialism picked right on his RB Scum - We know LS is town, SBG likely as well Lynch LS: Town - We know Isocialism is scum. He will claim framer. SBG is likely town Scum - Isocialism is likely town, SBG could be scum.

 

I don't exactly agree with this, and the fact you're trying to make it black and white like this makes me a little suspicious of you Rhizo. If you were scum, you would know for sure if iSoc/myself were town or not. Since you've placed your vote on iSoc, I'm led to believe you know he's town.

 

After this, you led forward stating probabilities to set up this frame that one of us MUST be scum, however you may very well know both of us are town. You're in a prime position to call for two townies to get lynched on D3 and D4.

 

I agree that iSoc and myself are in a big spotlight right now, but you're trying very hard to make it appear one of us must be scum, when you very well might know we're both town and are using this to your advantage and get us both killed.

 

FoS: Rhizo

 

 

Ok, so the more you talk the more you're not helping yourself with me.  This is not because you FOS, that I don't honestly care about because what you're suspicious of me is what I've been saying this whole time, but the fact that you again continue to bring up this framer.  We've already been over this, I've stated my opinion a million times already, I am not believing that not only scum picked you to frame N1 the same night Isocialism also picked you.  

 

I've already said there's a 1/180 chance that a framer and isocialism picked you the same night.  I don't know how many times I've said this, so I don't know why suddenly this getting through to you from my last post.  Which means, if I don't believe you were framed, that either means Isocialism is lying or you're scum.  Those are the only two options in regards to my feelings, and again, I've been saying this the whole damn time, just that I felt Isocialism is likely lying.  

 

But the mere fact every time you post you keep bringing up the possibility of this framer, and insist this is a likely option is becoming more and more scummy.  You continue to want to push the idea both you and Isocialism is town and I am not buying the .5% chance that it would be possible.  Every post, same thing...you're like MK constantly saying the same thing, but you about framer and him about how much he posts.

 

I am trying to figure out why you continue to be so set on a .5% chance.  If i was town and someone just said I was scum, I would certainly not be stuck on the possibility of a framer hitting N1 the same night a cop did.  I would be actively be trying to prove the fake claim by the scum.  And to me, if you're scum it makes a whole lot more sense for you to keep this framer posbility going.  You know if you're scum and isocialism is lynched, you're a dead man come D3.   But if you can push this narrative you were framed and somehow neither of you are killed, you may last longer.

 

 

At this point, I really don't know who out of the two to go for.  The more you open your mouth, the more I am thinking Isocialism could be telling the truth.  

 

Unvote

[Rhizoctonia]

Dead man come D4*

Not D3

[Wolfpacks]

No, LS is scum. Never have I said he's not. Dare you to find where I did. I never said your were when I posted my results. Just saying that I role blocked you. As for my comment about RCing. I realize my results implies heavy what my role is. Bit I still haven't REALLY RCed. Because I don't need to. So again LS is scum you were role blocked or at least I targeted you.

LS is open to the idea of there being a framer, but also to the notion that he was framed. How do you feel about my results of SBG. You haven't talked about that yet.

As to WP I blended my days together in that post. I voted for you, because at that time I had my n1 results. LS was scum and was voting for slmk. You were not innocent IMO at that time. You are now along with FS. With LS voting for SLMK furthering the gap between you and him in the wagon race. It look to me LS was coming to save you. What was I supposed to do?

 

Now thats a answer that i can work with, i always said that i would expect a scum to be in MKs wagon, to try and distance themself from my wagon and remove suspicion from himself,  if isoc is telling the truth then LS is scum and thats the way we need to vote, personally not trying to defend him but as we did have 3 suspects for day 2then i would have save my results for another day,  but like i said personally thats what i would have told you all once i had RC

[FS108]

 

No, LS is scum. Never have I said he's not. Dare you to find where I did. I never said your were when I posted my results. Just saying that I role blocked you. As for my comment about RCing. I realize my results implies heavy what my role is. Bit I still haven't REALLY RCed. Because I don't need to. So again LS is scum you were role blocked or at least I targeted you.

LS is open to the idea of there being a framer, but also to the notion that he was framed. How do you feel about my results of SBG. You haven't talked about that yet.

As to WP I blended my days together in that post. I voted for you, because at that time I had my n1 results. LS was scum and was voting for slmk. You were not innocent IMO at that time. You are now along with FS. With LS voting for SLMK furthering the gap between you and him in the wagon race. It look to me LS was coming to save you. What was I supposed to do?

 

Now thats a answer that i can work with, i always said that i would expect a scum to be in MKs wagon, to try and distance themself from my wagon and remove suspicion from himself,  if isoc is telling the truth then LS is scum and thats the way we need to vote, personally not trying to defend him but as we did have 3 suspects for day 2then i would have save my results for another day,  but like i said personally thats what i would have told you all once i had RC

 

True we only can act on how to go which ever way, and if Isoc is telling the truth then LS is scum then i will feel bad for hanging him

[Sister Midnight]

Gotta say that LS seems pretty scummy ATM. I don't feel good about his responses at all. His weird defense of iSoc could mean that he's a cop and investigated iSoc, and found him town. But if he's scum and he's defending iSoc, then if we lynch iSoc and it turns out iSoc is town, LS can point to his townie behavior, thus giving him believable cover. His defense of being framed is very weak. As Rhizo says the odds of an investigation and a framing of the same person on N1 are very low.

The fact that iSoc didn't hint he had proof of scum on day two is troubling, but not terribly so. MK practically waived a flag that said he was scum, there was good reason to delay giving out the info and avoiding being a mafia target.

And again, assuming scum role copped SBG on night 1, then why would iSoc the scum claimed to have roleblocked SBG last night? We can just lynch SBG and when he is turned out VT it is game over for iSoc. It's much better to claim cop and found out SBG is guilty so the true cop might show up.
 

 
 
To add to this, you're suggesting doing something that once again avoids knowing for sure if Isocialism is scum or not.  Suggesting we lynch SBG helps us figure out absolutely nothing if he comes up VT, or maybe a limited role he did not use last night.
 
Say we lynch SBG and he does come up VT?  What does that prove?  I know what Isocialism's next play is going to be...he's going to state he only said he Roleblocked SBG not that his roleblock stopped the kill last night, and that well it must of been out doctor who guessed right and continue to claim he's town.  Lynching SBG doesn't mean game over for Isocialism and you know this, it leaves plenty "unknowns" out there that Isocialism can claim is he's scum from doctor must of guessed correct, or someone else roleblocked the right guy, or someone had a bulletproof ability, or so on.  If we lynch SBG and he comes town, we're back to the same deliemma we're at now tomorrow, who is the scum, Isocialism or Ls.  
 
The only option at this point that should be looking at is either voting Isocialism or LS.  Who people want to go with, they can pick, but the only way we're going to know is by lynching either of them and examining the fallout the next day.  
 
Lynch Isocialism:  
 
Town - We know LS is scum.  LS will claim framer.  SBG is not necessarily proven scum or town, but leaves the possibility Isocialism picked right on his RB
 
Scum -  We know LS is town, SBG likely as well
 
Lynch LS:
Town - We know Isocialism is scum.  He will claim framer.  SBG is likely town
 
Scum - Isocialism is likely town, SBG could be scum.

At this point if we lynched LS and he came up town, iSoc signed his own lynch order for day 3.

LS I'm currently fingering you a lot more than iSoc.

[Lyner]

To add to this, you're suggesting doing something that once again avoids knowing for sure if Isocialism is scum or not.  Suggesting we lynch SBG helps us figure out absolutely nothing if he comes up VT, or maybe a limited role he did not use last night.

 

Say we lynch SBG and he does come up VT?  What does that prove?  I know what Isocialism's next play is going to be...he's going to state he only said he Roleblocked SBG not that his roleblock stopped the kill last night, and that well it must of been out doctor who guessed right and continue to claim he's town.  Lynching SBG doesn't mean game over for Isocialism and you know this, it leaves plenty "unknowns" out there that Isocialism can claim is he's scum from doctor must of guessed correct, or someone else roleblocked the right guy, or someone had a bulletproof ability, or so on.  If we lynch SBG and he comes town, we're back to the same deliemma we're at now tomorrow, who is the scum, Isocialism or Ls.  

 

The only option at this point that should be looking at is either voting Isocialism or LS.  Who people want to go with, they can pick, but the only way we're going to know is by lynching either of them and examining the fallout the next day.  

 

Lynch Isocialism:  

 

Town - We know LS is scum.  LS will claim framer.  SBG is not necessarily proven scum or town, but leaves the possibility Isocialism picked right on his RB

 

Scum -  We know LS is town, SBG likely as well

 

Lynch LS:

Town - We know Isocialism is scum.  He will claim framer.  SBG is likely town

 

Scum - Isocialism is likely town, SBG could be scum.

 

 

For some reason I thought we can confirm how last night's killing got blocked via RCs, my mistake 

 

Lynching either LS or iSoc seems like the simplest way, I agree. 

[Finster Baby]

Unfortunately for him, LS has moved himself ahead of iSoc in way of suspicion, and could be confirming what might be the strangest RC I've seen in quite a while.

FOS: LordSunday

Also, vote count please?