You reloaded Robert last night correct, ABT?

 

Yes, I did.

 

We need Jazzy to show up and confirm he'll indeed visit Samus at night.

 

 

I'm fine with that 

@ABT - If I remember correctly I think Rhizo said that he was somehow "blocked" from killing Rafay at night with the faction kill, not roleblocked while trying to perform his night action. I don't think that a roleblocker blocks the nightly faction kill. I am almost certain that Rafay will turn up as a 2-shot bulletproof SK. It was Rafay's bulletproof modifier that blocked Rhizo's kill, not a roleblocker.

Hmm.. as tempting as it is for me to continue not roleclaiming, because the longer I do the funny it's gonna be when it is revealed. I think it's best for town if I roleclaim now. (and already checked with Kevin to make sure it wouldn't cause mass roleclaim problems)

​I am Admiral Gial Ackbar, a Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie. (a Miller essentially)

I didn't roleclaim early because, basically; I wasn't sure it's that much better for town, lets scum know to target someone else. Though it is probably better statistically and stuff to roleclaim off the bat.. I wanted to believe I could get away with not doing that somehow. Then not long into the game others started claiming, AbT said if there is a Miller he should claim now and I dunno, just felt town would still be very suspicious of me and potentially lynch me anyway. Plus by not claiming Miller I thought a scum might try it then I could counter-claim. 

​Anyway, believe me or not, now you don't have to waste a investigation on me because you know I'll give a guilty result. That's how this helps town and why I am claiming now.

​I like to think Rhizo's D3 track was on me and I made him waste that track.

​ 
 

@ABT - If I remember correctly I think Rhizo said that he was somehow "blocked" from killing Rafay at night with the faction kill, not roleblocked while trying to perform his night action. I don't think that a roleblocker blocks the nightly faction kill. I am almost certain that Rafay will turn up as a 2-shot bulletproof SK. It was Rafay's bulletproof modifier that blocked Rhizo's kill, not a roleblocker.

 

yeah, but even so, you're still accepting Rhizo's word for it that scum attacked Rafay last night. I think they probably DID hit Rafay, but I wouldn't conclude that with certainty if I were you.

 

Hmm.. as tempting as it is for me to continue not roleclaiming, because the longer I do the funny it's gonna be when it is revealed. I think it's best for town if I roleclaim now. (and already checked with Kevin to make sure it wouldn't cause mass roleclaim problems)

 

​I am Admiral Gial Ackbar, a Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie. (a Miller essentially)

 

I didn't roleclaim early because, basically; I wasn't sure it's that much better for town, lets scum know to target someone else. Though it is probably better statistically and stuff to roleclaim off the bat.. I wanted to believe I could get away with not doing that somehow. Then not long into the game others started claiming, AbT said if there is a Miller he should claim now and I dunno, just felt town would still be very suspicious of me and potentially lynch me anyway. Plus by not claiming Miller I thought a scum might try it then I could counter-claim. 

 

​Anyway, believe me or not, now you don't have to waste a investigation on me because you know I'll give a guilty result. That's how this helps town and why I am claiming now.

 

​I like to think Rhizo's D3 track was on me and I made him waste that track.

 

​ 

 

 

fwiw I believe you. this rings true to me. But I'll be keeping an eye on you (metaphorically of course, not with a PR power. I'm not claiming to have or not have a PR power at this point.)

@@KevinH Can we get the entire werewolf faction to get disqualified if another dead member of their faction talks again here?

Warning to Yehom for whining.

 

 

If so, and if Robert targets Samus and Rhizo, I'm inclined to believe that his action only "works" if both Samus and Rhizo survive the night: "One-shot Gladiator (Target two players at night; if both alive at daybreak, they are the only two lynch candidates that day)".

 

I read that description to say that the action only works if both targets are alive at daybreak. We should definitely get clarification from Kevin but that's how I read it.

I'm not confirming that anyone in particular is a Gladiator, but if a one-shot Gladiator were to target 2 players and one of those players died in the night, then the Gladiator's one shot would be used up and the town would be free to lynch whomever they choose.

And one more thing that came up to my mind. Rhizo admitted he was somehow blocked - which means that roleblocker is in play. I don't think town roleblocker would haphazardly block random people (which would be extremely stupid, for instance hitting his own cop). That indicates we might have a werewolf roleblocker in play, which would mean that PGO scenario is not happening here.

 

 

I said i got a no result on my one night action, got a did not target someone on another.  I got the no result when tracking Yehom N2 because I thought be maybe SK (he's obviously not now).

 

Hmm.. as tempting as it is for me to continue not roleclaiming, because the longer I do the funny it's gonna be when it is revealed. I think it's best for town if I roleclaim now. (and already checked with Kevin to make sure it wouldn't cause mass roleclaim problems)

 

​I am Admiral Gial Ackbar, a Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie. (a Miller essentially)

 

I didn't roleclaim early because, basically; I wasn't sure it's that much better for town, lets scum know to target someone else. Though it is probably better statistically and stuff to roleclaim off the bat.. I wanted to believe I could get away with not doing that somehow. Then not long into the game others started claiming, AbT said if there is a Miller he should claim now and I dunno, just felt town would still be very suspicious of me and potentially lynch me anyway. Plus by not claiming Miller I thought a scum might try it then I could counter-claim. 

 

​Anyway, believe me or not, now you don't have to waste a investigation on me because you know I'll give a guilty result. That's how this helps town and why I am claiming now.

 

​I like to think Rhizo's D3 track was on me and I made him waste that track.

 

​ 

 

 

 

You guessed right, i wasted it on you last night and found you didn't target anyone

I don’t understand why a miller should role claim early. Anyone willing to explain?

I don’t understand why a miller should role claim early. Anyone willing to explain?

 

I suppose it looks more credible than potentially getting busted by a cop or PR role and then trying to use that as a defence.

Yeah. The whole daybreak thing. When Kevin was explaining it and there was 3 kills a night, I figured the longer I waited the less likely my role would be sucesfully used and take effect. It makes sense though, say I target samus and Rhizo tonight, if I didn't lose it and Rhizo was killed and still went through it be broken of samus or no Lynch.

 

I'm trying to see Ali plan and how it would help the town.

 

I don’t understand why a miller should role claim early. Anyone willing to explain?

 

I suppose it looks more credible than potentially getting busted by a cop or PR role and then trying to use that as a defence.

 

Basically this. A miller is essentially an anti-town TOWN role. A miller has no benefit to the town and in fact only detriments the town because he would investigate as if he were guilty.

 

There are a couple schools of thought about the Miller role:

1) Role claim immediately as the Miller as soon as the game starts. This would pre-empt a guilty investigation result from later in the game and the town is more likely to believe you are actually a Miller rather than a scum who got caught and tried to defend themselves by claiming Miller after the fact.

2) Don't role claim when the game starts because then the scum won't know that you are essentially a worthless townie and look elsewhere for more powerful roles to night kill. This strategy is the one Canik is claiming to be using here and it is incredibly risky for the Miller to play this way. The longer the game goes and that a Miller is alive they become much more suspicious that they are actually a scum member claiming to be a Miller to defend themselves.

Well. It's interesting he's claiming now.

Thank you, TW.

So at this point most of the dialogue is coming from a few people with occasional interjections from the rest. I'd really like to hear more from Lachiton/LordSunday/Jazzy and would like to continue to see SM, KitKat, and Canik commenting.

@ABT - If I remember correctly I think Rhizo said that he was somehow "blocked" from killing Rafay at night with the faction kill, not roleblocked while trying to perform his night action. I don't think that a roleblocker blocks the nightly faction kill. I am almost certain that Rafay will turn up as a 2-shot bulletproof SK. It was Rafay's bulletproof modifier that blocked Rhizo's kill, not a roleblocker.

I wasn't thinking about Rafay, but his tracker investigation on D2 when he got "no result" response.

Hmm.. as tempting as it is for me to continue not roleclaiming, because the longer I do the funny it's gonna be when it is revealed. I think it's best for town if I roleclaim now. (and already checked with Kevin to make sure it wouldn't cause mass roleclaim problems) ​I am Admiral Gial Ackbar, a Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie. (a Miller essentially)

 

At first I thought it's not good, because yet again we're facing a role Werewolf can have (miller returning mafia result) ... however you can be confirmed by Jazzy. If you're in fact universal Miller, Jazzy will get guilty out of you (unless both of you are scum). 

 

@KevinH just a question to be sure: Does universal miller apply only to alignments (like different cop roles returning true / false results) or does it also apply to other roles (like on mafia wiki I can see a Tracker Miller example)?

 

Yeah.

The whole daybreak thing. When Kevin was explaining it and there was 3 kills a night, I figured the longer I waited the less likely my role would be sucesfully used and take effect. It makes sense though, say I target samus and Rhizo tonight, if I didn't lose it and Rhizo was killed and still went through it be broken of samus or no Lynch.

 

I'm trying to see Ali plan and how it would help the town.

I was hoping that in case of Rhizo's death your role will have no effect. I don't want to lynch Samus, I just want 3 people visit him at night to rule out the possibility that he's a PGO (which most probably he's not but it's better to be 100% sure).

So at this point most of the dialogue is coming from a few people with occasional interjections from the rest. I'd really like to hear more from Lachiton/LordSunday/Jazzy and would like to continue to see SM, KitKat, and Canik commenting.

 

At this point we know that:

 

- Rafay is most likely SK

- Rhizo is most likely our final mafia

- Robert is 100% town

- AbT is 100% town

- Jazzy is an FBI Agent (could be Werewolf/Town though)

- TW is a Cop (could be Werewolf//Town though)

 

 

With that, I think both Jazzy and TW are town. TW made a very logical inference that looking at the other investigative roles lost (Town Cop-of-all-Trades, Town Seer), it makes sense that there would be one investigative role for the other remaining factions present (i.e. Town Cop, Town FBI Agent). So unless a counter-claim surfaces I'm going to mark both as most likely confirmed

 

Looking at the Samus situation, I honestly have no idea. AbT has laid out enough reasoning that it really doesn't even matter if he's reloaded or not since we have the same amount of mislynches before we lose anyways

 

I don't remember who brought up that Rhizo could be faking his results, but I doubt he would be simply because there's nothing really for him to gain from lying

 

AbT already gave a good plan for confirming Canik that if Jazzy and TW both get a guilty result tonight then he would be proven

 

The only other thing I've been thinking about is how no kills happened last night. Assuming all parties shot, then there would've been 3 attempted kills last night. We already know that one was directed at Rafay (per Rhizo's information) and was blocked either by a bulletproof or immune to mafia modifier. But there would have been 2 others, which means either there was inactive scum between both the werewolves and SK or there was a doctor/roleblocker role that saved said individuals

And to summarize current events and the discussion results, the way I see us right now:

 

Town:

- Robert2424

- Ali bin Turban

- Brewersalliance (probably)

 

RC'ed, we need confirmation:

- Samus (can be confirmed)
- Canik (can be confirmed)

- The Warrior (can be a Werewolf cop and cannot be confirmed)

- Jazzy95 (can be a Werewolf FBI cannot be confirmed)

Scum:

- Rafay
- Rhizoctonia

I don't know:
- Lachiton

- LordSunday

 

Rest I don't trust

- Yehom

- Kitkat16

- Sister Midnight

 

We know why mafia didn't delivered a kill. We still don't know what stopped Werewolves and Rafay. Werewolves can potentially have a roleblocker (who could target Rafay). As for town there's a possibility for a Doctor or Jailer. Anyway, unless somehow we get some results during nighttime after taking Rhizo out we can start lynching unknown folks from the bottom of the list.

 

 

With that, I think both Jazzy and TW are town. TW made a very logical inference that looking at the other investigative roles lost (Town Cop-of-all-Trades, Town Seer), it makes sense that there would be one investigative role for the other remaining factions present (i.e. Town Cop, Town FBI Agent). So unless a counter-claim surfaces I'm going to mark both as most likely confirmed

 

Thing is they won't be counterclaimed. Werewolf FBI Agent or Werewolf cop are real roles that can appear in our setting. And obviously if for example Werewolf FBI agent was rolled for us then we won't have town FBI Agent (well, yeah KevinH can do anything he pleases, but that would be unneeded retention). And those scum with investigative roles will seriously hunt SK and mafia down, just as any other townie would do.

Just a thought: Rhizo knows he is dead tomorrow. That means that scum will probably nominate him as the guy to deliver the kill. If we have a one-shot PR who can find out stuff about another player (e.g. watcher, tracker) I wouldn't use that power tonight unless your power allows you to find out stuff about werewolves. Even then, whatever you do don't waste it on Samus (not that I think anyone would be QUITE that dumb, haha.)

Still don't see the logic to not killing Rhizo tonight.

 

Lynching Rhizo tomorrow, is almost a wasted lynch imo that doesn't bare any fruit, we literally don't find out anything new from that lynch.

 

But carry on, i'll play your game.

Still don't see the logic to not killing Rhizo tonight.

 

Lynching Rhizo tomorrow, is almost a wasted lynch imo that doesn't bare any fruit, we literally don't find out anything new from that lynch.

 

But carry on, i'll play your game.

 

And how exactly would we get more info from lynching him tonight than from lynching him tomorrow? This way, as I've said, we have one fewer kill tonight because we take out the serial killer.

 

*looks suspiciously at Samus*

"My worthy apprentice, son of darkness, heir apparent to Lord Vader. Where there was conflict, I now sense resolve. Where there was weakness, strength. Complete your training, and fulfill your destiny." -Supreme Leader Snoke

 

@KevinH just a question to be sure: Does universal miller apply only to alignments (like different cop roles returning true / false results) or does it also apply to other roles (like on mafia wiki I can see a Tracker Miller example)?

 

In this game, I only took roles from the Greater Idea List and made minor interpretations. I did not make any dramatic shifts in the roles. So no, there is not a Tracker Miller.
 
 

Vote count:

Rafay (6): Jazzy95, Lachiton, LordSunday, Kitkat16, Brewersalliance, The Warrior,
The Warrior (1): Rafay,
Yehom (0):  
Canik (0):
Brewersalliance (0):
Jazzy95 (0): 
LordSunday (0):
Rhizoctonia (0):
Samus (0):
Robert2424 (0):
Ali bin Turban (0):
Kitkat16 (0):
Sister Midnight (0):
Lachiton (0):

No Lynch (0): 

Not voting:  Rhizoctonia, Ali bin Turban, Yehom, Sister Midnight, Canik, Samus, Robert2424,   

 
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch, or 4 at deadline.
Deadline is Saturday, March 3, at 07:00 EST.

 

Still don't see the logic to not killing Rhizo tonight.

 

Lynching Rhizo tomorrow, is almost a wasted lynch imo that doesn't bare any fruit, we literally don't find out anything new from that lynch.

 

But carry on, i'll play your game.

 

And how exactly would we get more info from lynching him tonight than from lynching him tomorrow? This way, as I've said, we have one fewer kill tonight because we take out the serial killer.

 

*looks suspiciously at Samus*

 

I don't expect to get any more info from Rhizo.

 

Killing Rhizo tonight, takes him out of tomorrow's game plan. Our attention can be focused on finding out the rest of the wolves and if anything should pop up, lynch one instead. 

 

Allowing Rhizo to stay alive tomorrow, means in the best of scenarios if we are able to gather information that confirms a player as a wolf, we won't be able to lynch them until the following day.

 

We're focusing too much on worst case scenario's we're forgetting to even consider best case scenarios.

@Samus - AbT has a plan that involves him visiting you which means you'd be reloaded.

 

We need 3 people to visit Samus at night: Me, Jazzy and Robert. 1. If we all die, the only explanation is that Samus is a Werewolf PGO and that means that TW is also a scum. We win the game. 2. If at least one of us survives (Rhizo and Werewolves can still target two of us and kill them) that means Samus is not a PGO. If Samus is not PGO, than the only plausible explanation is that he's indeed a Vigilante (he wouldn't ask for a reload in any other scenario as it would not be reasonable). If Samus is Vigilante than at the same time he's town. Vig is a town alignment and KevinH mentioned that he's not swapping alignments - so the only way for Vig to be a scum is when it's mentioned on the Greater Idea Mafia list. And as we see there it's indeed mentioned, but as a possible role for Mafia and not for Werewolves. Therefore by sending 3 people we either win the game or (which is most probable) confirm Samus as a town.

​Looks like a reasonable plan so long as PGO would kill everyone who visits. A big risk tho and I'm not sure it'd win us the game.. are we sure there is only 1 scum left?

​Also if Jazzy investigates me she can't do this too. Not in the same night.

So at this point most of the dialogue is coming from a few people with occasional interjections from the rest. I'd really like to hear more from Lachiton/LordSunday/Jazzy and would like to continue to see SM, KitKat, and Canik commenting.

I have made my observations one or two pages ago, nothing more to add.

 

@Samus - AbT has a plan that involves him visiting you which means you'd be reloaded.

 

 

We need 3 people to visit Samus at night: Me, Jazzy and Robert. 1. If we all die, the only explanation is that Samus is a Werewolf PGO and that means that TW is also a scum. We win the game. 2. If at least one of us survives (Rhizo and Werewolves can still target two of us and kill them) that means Samus is not a PGO. If Samus is not PGO, than the only plausible explanation is that he's indeed a Vigilante (he wouldn't ask for a reload in any other scenario as it would not be reasonable). If Samus is Vigilante than at the same time he's town. Vig is a town alignment and KevinH mentioned that he's not swapping alignments - so the only way for Vig to be a scum is when it's mentioned on the Greater Idea Mafia list. And as we see there it's indeed mentioned, but as a possible role for Mafia and not for Werewolves. Therefore by sending 3 people we either win the game or (which is most probable) confirm Samus as a town.

 

 

​Looks like a reasonable plan so long as PGO would kill everyone who visits. A big risk tho and I'm not sure it'd win us the game.. are we sure there is only 1 scum left?

 

​Also if Jazzy investigates me she can't do this too. Not in the same night.

 

Didn't see this. But such a plan!

 

I'd hate to be scum playing against ABT lol