1091 replies to this topic

[The Warrior]

I obviously cannot speak for what was going through SBG's mind when he made his case against Imran. All I can say about that was that as I watched it from the sidelines, I thought that he raised some interesting points, but I thought that what followed after his vote on Imran was embarrassing for the town. It's fine if you agree with what another player says but you should still maintain your own unique thoughts. People who blindly followed the vote by saying "I agree with SBG" and nothing else were not helping the town. This is a game of interpretation and manipulation. If you are going to vote for someone at least add your own thought to it.

 

I was not surprised to see a post like SBG's however. It seems like one of those happens every single game. Someone does things just scummy enough that it causes a more analytical player to dig into everything that they have done/said for the entire game and make a big post about it. I just did this to Canik in the XY game in fact. Canik and I both turned out to be town there.

 

Townies are almost always the ones that make posts like that, especially early in a game. And doing so usually leads other townies to bicker with one another. Scum players almost always sit out those arguments. They have no reason to speak when the town is going at one another and risk exposing themselves. They would much rather let the town kill off their own while skating by under the radar. Therefore, I would be most concerned about the people who completely avoided the Imran/SBG et al argument.

[Canik]

​It would be good for town if more people at least gave their thoughts on remaining players/gave suspect lists. Here's mine:

​Most Scummy:

​Rafay - need I say more? He no voted yesterday too which past D1 I generally frown upon. Although I must say with all the power roles.. maybe we should've gone no lynch D2 but it wasn't as clear then and if that was his reasoning would've been nice of him to post it. So I doubt that was his reason. More likely just wanting to lay low.

​Kitkat - Is Kitkat really still alive? Quiet and says some questionable thing but this is not far from the norm for Kitkat so who knows? Voted for Brewers yesterday and even tho I lean towards Brewers being town I give a little town point to Kitkat for that. Appears to be trying more than Rafay at least.

​Jazzy - New player so it's hard to say if scummy mistakes are a result of newness or scumminess. Still, can't ignore the scummy mistakes. Plus Jazzy no voted yesterday.

Somewhat Scummy:

​Lord Sunday - just helped us out a bit clearing up the Supersaint role but scum will look for ways seem helpful. Him no voting yesterday is suspicious to me though.

​The Warrior - SBG started the wagon on Imran leading to his mislynch. His reasoning seemed somewhat weak to me but then Imran's response (roleclaiming and advertising he "definitely" had a strong role rather early) seemed so fake and scummy to me I joined in. (plus it looked like a no lynch may happen and generally you want to lynch after D1)

Anyway, grabbing a little scummy thing and making a case for it and letting town join in on the lynch is not a bad strategy for scum. I worry this may be what SBG was doing. Though I list him (now TW) as only 'somewhat' scummy because at least he appeared to by trying. And Imran did seem scummy to me too in the end.

​Sister Midnight - Voted at the end on the Imran wagon.. could be a good move to seem town, why would scum join a wagon they know is town and the lynch is already sealed? But I'm a little doubtful SM would make that gambit.. more or less neutral on SM.

​Yehom & Lachiton - Both voted on Brewers. Neutral on them both.

​Rhizo - Voted on Brewers. Quite a bit of analysis and talking. Leaning slightly town towards him but Rhizo will post a lot even if scum so gotta keep an eye on him.

​Least Scummy:

​Brewers - while the roleclaim by him seems like a mistake to me, I think it's probably legit. He seems geniunely unafraid to be lynched too. Could be scum and playing it well but leaning towards him being town. Keeping an eye on him but for now he's in my less scummy catagory.

​Lego & Samus - ^ same reasoning as Brewers tho they haven't shown as much willingness to be lynched. Haven't had as much opportunity to do so perhaps, so I don't count it against them too much. However, I would say they seem slightly more suspect than Brewers.

​Robert - confirmed town by Mod so if he's not, gonna be real upset with Kevin.

​I think that's it.. went back to the ending votes yesterday to analysis that but didn't read through all 28 pages to analysis all their posts. 

[Kitkat16]

Canik How exactly am I any more scummy than Yehom or Lachiton, when as you rightly observe I voted for the same person as they did yesterday? (i.e. Brewers.) Aren't the people who voted for an actual townie (Imran) scummier? What exactly have I said which is more dodgy than Yehom or Lach's posts? Yeah, I've been quiet today. So has everyone. I haven't had much to say, and I don't make posts saying that I have nothing to say because I know from experience that I am then accused of trying to get my post count up with fluff. I HAVE stirred stuff up though where I can, e.g. boldly being the first one to accuse Lego of fakeclaiming, and later Brewers too.

[Canik]

Hmm.. I did consider moving you down because I knew you had been involved in some discussion. Accusing Brewers/Lego isn't a huge positive tho for me when I lean towards them being town. 

I will revise my list a bit and say I do rate you lower than Rafay/Jazzy. Closer to Yehom/Lachiton but still find you a bit scummier personally. No offense but I just find your posts a little less convincing. 

Aren't the people who voted for an actual townie (Imran) scummier?

​Not really, it doesn't seem to be a great indication of who is scum or not. In the Pick Your Power game the 2 scum we've killed stayed off the town-lynching wagons. Doesn't mean there won't ever be scum on town wagons we know one scum (Lord MK) was on the Imran wagon but there's a good chance many of them are town. We also know one scum (iSoc) was no voting. 

[Kitkat16]

 

Hmm.. I did consider moving you down because I knew you had been involved in some discussion. Accusing Brewers/Lego isn't a huge positive tho for me when I lean towards them being town. 

I will revise my list a bit and say I do rate you lower than Rafay/Jazzy. Closer to Yehom/Lachiton but still find you a bit scummier personally. No offense but I just find your posts a little less convincing. 
 

 

Aren't the people who voted for an actual townie (Imran) scummier?

​Not really, it doesn't seem to be a great indication of who is scum or not. In the Pick Your Power game the 2 scum we've killed stayed off the town-lynching wagons. Doesn't mean there won't ever be scum on town wagons we know one scum (Lord MK) was on the Imran wagon but there's a good chance many of them are town. We also know one scum (iSoc) was no voting. 

 

 

I do agree that not all the scum are likely to be on Imran's wagon. But as you say iSoc wasn't voting.

[KevinH]

... gonna be real upset with Kevin.

 
For the record, all I'm confirming is

 

Roles were taken from the list at Greater_Idea_Mafia

That list includes

 

One-shot Gladiator (Target two players at night; if both alive at daybreak, they are the only two lynch candidates that day)

 

That is a town role.

 
Draw conclusions at your own risk.

[KevinH]

Ali bin Turban replaces Legoboyvdlp.

 

In his previous role as jack-of-all trades, he was killed before he used any power so he has no extra information.

[brewersalliance]

Yehom seems pretty set on trying to paint me as a liar.  I know the SK cant kill me, and the only way the SK can get rid of me is with a lynch on me, so it makes sense to me that the sk would push for me to be lynched.  I dont get why Yehom and kitkat would push me to role claim when i virutally did already.  are you asking me to say the specific name and hoping i say something different to trip me up?  you do know that if i was lying i would just get the role name off the list and pick a star wars character name that fit the role, so I dont get what u are trying to accomplish here 

[Kitkat16]

Yehom seems pretty set on trying to paint me as a liar.  I know the SK cant kill me, and the only way the SK can get rid of me is with a lynch on me, so it makes sense to me that the sk would push for me to be lynched.  I dont get why Yehom and kitkat would push me to role claim when i virutally did already.  are you asking me to say the specific name and hoping i say something different to trip me up?  you do know that if i was lying i would just get the role name off the list and pick a star wars character name that fit the role, so I dont get what u are trying to accomplish here 

 

OK. On second thoughts, I believe you. You're coming across as town to me.

[Rhizoctonia]

I obviously cannot speak for what was going through SBG's mind when he made his case against Imran. All I can say about that was that as I watched it from the sidelines, I thought that he raised some interesting points, but I thought that what followed after his vote on Imran was embarrassing for the town. It's fine if you agree with what another player says but you should still maintain your own unique thoughts. People who blindly followed the vote by saying "I agree with SBG" and nothing else were not helping the town. This is a game of interpretation and manipulation. If you are going to vote for someone at least add your own thought to it.

 

I was not surprised to see a post like SBG's however. It seems like one of those happens every single game. Someone does things just scummy enough that it causes a more analytical player to dig into everything that they have done/said for the entire game and make a big post about it. I just did this to Canik in the XY game in fact. Canik and I both turned out to be town there.

 

Townies are almost always the ones that make posts like that, especially early in a game. And doing so usually leads other townies to bicker with one another. Scum players almost always sit out those arguments. They have no reason to speak when the town is going at one another and risk exposing themselves. They would much rather let the town kill off their own while skating by under the radar. Therefore, I would be most concerned about the people who completely avoided the Imran/SBG et al argument.

 

SBG who you replaced is an obvious suspect in my book for being on the lynch of Imran and pushing for it.  I agree what followed with people just using what SBG said as a reason to vote is not something anyone should like to see.  Not only did most just say SBG made good points, most didn't elaborate on what points exactly he made stood out most to them.  Now I gain a little bit of town feel with SBG's continuous effort to get him lynched.  Most scum aren't going to be the major one pushing a lynch, especially D2.  But then again, he might of merely tried to look townish by scum hunting and didn't suspect to gain so many people to follow him on the lynch.  But he didn't wavier on his thoughts Imran was scum, continuing to put himself in the spotlight of pushing for the lynch.

Imran didn't do himself any favors, it seems he got busy before end of the day and couldn't post anything to change anyone's mind, but its obvious now knowing his role he was looking to do what he could to keep his identity and role under wraps which I would of did as well if I was the seer, so can't really blame him.  Just more the fact people didn't think it was odd when a bunch of people voted him without any of their own thoughts...that alone is a warning sign.

You're certainly not off the hook in my eyes.  SBG is a smart player, and doing something a scum normally wouldn't, would not surprise me if he did.  But I'm more suspicious of those who went onto Imran's wagon using SBG as seemingly the scapegoat if/when Imran turned up town.  It's more likely to see scum jump on the wagon of someone that another person is the main one pushing for and they're just tagging along.

I don't think all of scum were on that wagon though, and you have two different factions and a SK.  We know 1 werewolf was on that wagon now that we know who MK was, and we know 1 scum was not on it, Isocialism who didn't vote.  If mafia now with 2 dead are not completely eliminated (don't know if Kevin would reveal that), the other scum could be apart of it, and/or SK.  A possible other werewolf could be as well, but not sure if they'd commit 2 or more werewolves on the lynch of a town.  

 

You're not my top suspect, but you certainly remain a suspect for Sea's vote/push prior to you taking over.  Hard to gather yet if Sea/you are not apart of town, if he'd push as hard as he did, but again, i doubt he suspected so many to jump and stay on Imran from merely what he said.  
 

 

Yehom seems pretty set on trying to paint me as a liar.  I know the SK cant kill me, and the only way the SK can get rid of me is with a lynch on me, so it makes sense to me that the sk would push for me to be lynched.  I dont get why Yehom and kitkat would push me to role claim when i virutally did already.  are you asking me to say the specific name and hoping i say something different to trip me up?  you do know that if i was lying i would just get the role name off the list and pick a star wars character name that fit the role, so I dont get what u are trying to accomplish here 

 

 

That was my whole point of yesterday.  Again, I still think you were the better lynch yesterday from a standpoint your power was pretty much over, and Imran we weren't positive on.  Much rather risk losing at the worst a VT then an unknown and possible more important role in Imran (we now know was more important) that others followed SBG too easily on.  We would have tested your claim, as well as if you came up retired Marine which you seem to basically hint at, then we may have an idea of who the SK would of been because they'd want you dead.  That obviously would thus included me, but knowing I'm town, my focus would of been on the 3 on you prior (Yehom/Lach/Kitkat).  I eliminated Kitkat some from that list as after you roleclaimed, he did not instantly change his vote to you, and instead kept it on Lego at the time which he would of not likely done if he was the SK and needed you dead by lynch.  He did however eventually change it, but him waiting to gives him a little less suspicion in my eyes that he's not the SK.  My gut is telling me the SK lies between the 3 of Yehom/Lach/you, just merely based on the votes and you possibly using a fake RC.  It's a lot easier for the SK to push a lynch on you yesterday/now, then it will if you establish yourself with everyone else as a townie and the rest believe your RC.  Once it gets to that point, it's going to be hard for the SK to push a lynch with the remaining players needed for him to lynch you and win.  

It's not that I don't/didn't necessarily believe your RC as we know there's a SK, and we know we had a role already immune to werewolves so you very well could be a retired marine immuned to a SK.  I just felt given circumstances of you RCing and your ability no longer of much help and the circumstances around the wagon on Imran you were the best option yesterday for what we'd lose compared to what we'd gain from your lynch, be it SK suspects if you were telling the truth and proving there was a SK (we know now there is with 2 nights of 3 deaths) or you possibly being the SK using a fake RC.   Now that were in D3 and we mislynched once and only have 2 options with this Gladiator role, I have to decide if I believe your RC or not.  I'm leaning towards believing you, especially considering now we know basically for sure there's an SK with 3 deaths again last night.

 

And uhhh Samus...what was that vote?  You can't vote for Rafay, so what was that?

 

his notion to end the day early is scummy to me. I know my vote doesn't count though

 

 

 

I gotcha.  Not a bad idea, as just because we have only two options to lynch today, people should still put forth names they suspect for later days in case they'e killed tonight.  Though it's not possible to lynch anyone outside of Brewers/Canik today, suspicion of others outside of those two should be brought forward.  Seems a few have at this point, so that's good

[Yehom]

Yehom seems pretty set on trying to paint me as a liar.  I know the SK cant kill me, and the only way the SK can get rid of me is with a lynch on me, so it makes sense to me that the sk would push for me to be lynched.  I dont get why Yehom and kitkat would push me to role claim when i virutally did already.  are you asking me to say the specific name and hoping i say something different to trip me up?  you do know that if i was lying i would just get the role name off the list and pick a star wars character name that fit the role, so I dont get what u are trying to accomplish here 

I've yet to see why you're so reluctant then to fully role claim. You've already stated your powers, so why not make it official? There is zero downside to you now fully role claiming unless you have something more to hide. The SK wasn't going to target you anytime soon and mafia/werewolves are probably gunning for more powerful people

[Robert2424]

Apparently Rafay always looks scummy. It may just be his play style going to land him in hot water more often then not though. I think people just place people in category because of there experience with them. Like I personally see it might be hard for anybody to truly make a case on somebody very liked. Say Sister Midnight. So dose that mean She has a advantage then as Rafay has a disadvantage just for who they are? 

[Ali bin Turban]

Hi there

 

vote Canik

 

- For his mild analysis, where RC are towns, lurkers have scummy feeling and the rest are "I'm not sure". It's like he's not trying to scum hunt to much. 

- For jumping on Imran's wagon. His motive was not convincing to me and could be just an excuse to get someone lynched at the deadline (post here: https://ironcentral.org/community/topic/61143-kh-19the-last-jedi-mafia-day-3/page-23#entry937566). Also with 2 scum teams it wouldn't be uncommon to find 2 scums sitting in one wagon.

[Canik]

Apparently Rafay always looks scummy. It may just be his play style going to land him in hot water more often then not though. I think people just place people in category because of there experience with them. Like I personally see it might be hard for anybody to truly make a case on somebody very liked. Say Sister Midnight. So dose that mean She has a advantage then as Rafay has a disadvantage just for who they are? 

 

Yeah, pretty much. Although I try to take those things into account, the thing is I'm still going to tend to want to lynch a non-talkative player over one who talks. Because talking is an essential part to this game and those who do talk give more to analyze. Why kill them first? Unless there is good evidence against them. Sucks for Rafay and I do try not to pick on the quiet ones TOO much but at the end of the day, it seems like the better strategy to me. So, sorry Rafay, don't take it personally I'm just doing the logical thing as I see it. 

vote Canik - For his mild analysis, where RC are towns, lurkers have scummy feeling and the rest are "I'm not sure". It's like he's not trying to scum hunt to much. - For jumping on Imran's wagon. His motive was not convincing to me and could be just an excuse to get someone lynched at the deadline (post here: https://ironcentral.org/community/topic/61143-kh-19the-last-jedi-mafia-day-3/page-23#entry937566). Also with 2 scum teams it wouldn't be uncommon to find 2 scums sitting in one wagon.

​Sorry I don't have unreasonable confidence in who is scum and who isn't and that I was rather consistent and not all over the place. My bad. xD

​If my thoughts on who is scummy should be more extreme because of evidence go ahead and share that evidence please. Even if you keep voting for me, I'd like to hear it and I'm sure the rest of town would too.

​As my motive for voting Imran.. I think my motive was the best personally. Most others just bandwagoned. It is true there could be a 2nd scum on the Imran wagon but the odds of picking the right one is still low. There were 7-8 people on that wagon. Also find it kind of funny you may no mention of Brewers being on that wagon.. and what was his reasoning again?

​Honestly AbT, it's like you're not even trying to scum hunt too much.

[KevinH]

"Oh, such spunk!" -Supreme Leader Snoke

Vote count:

Brewersalliance (1): Robert2424,
Canik (1): Ali bin Turban 


No Lynch (2): Brewersalliance, Rafay,

Not voting: Jazzy95, LordSunday, SeaBeeGipson, Canik, Sister Midnight, Yehom, Lachiton, Kitkat16, Rhizoctonia, Samus,

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch, or 4 at deadline.
Deadline is Wednesday, February 14, at 23:00 EST

[Ali bin Turban]

One never has confidence, but he tries to uncover the truth. I don't see you trying, just blending in. Other than night actions, evidence is being created by talking and pressuring others, and not by making mild statements.

 

Imran's wagon jumping motives were poor across the board, so saying yours were the best is still nothing to be proud of. I rather find them as an excuse to jump in than a real cause. Secondly I don't find the odds of finding the second scum on Imran's wagon to be that low:

 

Imran Ehsan (7): SeaBeeGipson, Brewersalliance, Lord MK, Canik, Robert2424, Legoboyvdlp, Sister Midnight,

 

If a scum (and to be precise Werewolf team) saw wagon forming but not reaching the limit yet, it's very possible they'd fell the pressure to "help":

 

Robert is apparently a town,

Lego's (me) is most probably one too.

Brewers - I don't think scum would have make such reckless move - should Imran be more active, Brewers would get lynched on D2 instead. So he's most probably a town who just has made a bad move.

Lord MK turned out to be a mafia.

Sister Midnight comes a little to late to have any impact

SBG (TW) seems townish to me, also I'm not so sure that he'd pick on Imran if he was a scum - there are easier targets around and I believe Imran's lynch was in the end just an accident caused by his lack of time.

I'm just left with you...provided there were any Werewolves on that wagon.
 

I'm also very curious, why do you find it funny that I've not mentioned Brewers? Do you have anything against him? Maybe that he's not as experienced as you?

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

My other scum suspects are (I don't have much time to elaborate):

 

- Jazzy (for his D1 acting)

- Yehom (just a gut feeling)

- Rafay (especially for his call to end this day as quickly as possible)

- Kitkat (general behaving - gut feeling)

[brewersalliance]

There were 7-8 people on that wagon. Also find it kind of funny you may no mention of Brewers being on that wagon.. and what was his reasoning again?

 

 

honestly my reasoning was:  ehh im not ver motivated for this game cause im pissed i didnt get a dark side role (still mad about that ) and sbg made somewhat of a good argument, so thats good enough for me lol 

My other scum suspects are (I don't have much time to elaborate):   - Jazzy (for his D1 acting) - Yehom (just a gut feeling) - Rafay (especially for his call to end this day as quickly as possible) - Kitkat (general behaving - gut feeling)

 

If i had to guess I would guess Yehom is the sk with how Yehom wanted me lynched yesterday as thats the only way the sk can kill me  

[Canik]

One never has confidence, but he tries to uncover the truth. I don't see you trying, just blending in. Other than night actions, evidence is being created by talking and pressuring others, and not by making mild statements.

 

Imran's wagon jumping motives were poor across the board, so saying yours were the best is still nothing to be proud of. I rather find them as an excuse to jump in than a real cause. Secondly I don't find the odds of finding the second scum on Imran's wagon to be that low:

 

Imran Ehsan (7): SeaBeeGipson, Brewersalliance, Lord MK, Canik, Robert2424, Legoboyvdlp, Sister Midnight,

 

If a scum (and to be precise Werewolf team) saw wagon forming but not reaching the limit yet, it's very possible they'd fell the pressure to "help":

 

Robert is apparently a town,

Lego's (me) is most probably one too.

Brewers - I don't think scum would have make such reckless move - should Imran be more active, Brewers would get lynched on D2 instead. So he's most probably a town who just has made a bad move.

Lord MK turned out to be a mafia.

Sister Midnight comes a little to late to have any impact

SBG (TW) seems townish to me, also I'm not so sure that he'd pick on Imran if he was a scum - there are easier targets around and I believe Imran's lynch was in the end just an accident caused by his lack of time.

I'm just left with you...provided there were any Werewolves on that wagon.
 

I'm also very curious, why do you find it funny that I've not mentioned Brewers? Do you have anything against him? Maybe that he's not as experienced as you?

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

My other scum suspects are (I don't have much time to elaborate):

 

- Jazzy (for his D1 acting)

- Yehom (just a gut feeling)

- Rafay (especially for his call to end this day as quickly as possible)

- Kitkat (general behaving - gut feeling)

vote Canik - For his mild analysis, where RC are towns, lurkers have scummy feeling

Your list looks a lot like mine so far. The lurkers Jazzy, Rafay, Kitkat are among your top suspects. The roleclaimers Brewers & Lego you think are town.  Only differences are you find SBG/TW less suspicious and Yehom more suspicous but only due to 'gut feelings'.. the latter almost seems like it was added so you're top scums were the exact same listed as mine.

One never has confidence, but he tries to uncover the truth. I don't see you trying, just blending in. Other than night actions, evidence is being created by talking and pressuring others, and not by making mild statements.

​If blending in was a primary concern of mine I wouldn't have hammered Imran. Also I've been talking plenty and applying pressure about as much as I always do. Maybe a bit less this game due to circumstances but in general, I don't tend to go around randomly applying extreme pressure all over the place it's just not my style.

I'm also very curious, why do you find it funny that I've not mentioned Brewers? Do you have anything against him? Maybe that he's not as experienced as you?

​I found it curious you didn't mention he was on the wagon and his reasoning was at least as bad as mine if not worse. From his reply on the matter it seems a lot worse to me. But you used those same things to accuse me of scumminess. That's what I found funny and why.

​*****

​Anyway, looks like we have another supposed scum hunting expert. After mostly mislynching lately I find a lot of joy in seeings others fail when they are acting all confident and being critical of my own scum hunting style. So lynch me if yall want or don't, doesn't matter, it's a win-win for me.

[Kitkat16]

I am *SO* not a lurker. :v

[Ali bin Turban]

Where's the love Canik? You were supposedly so happy to see me here: https://ironcentral.org/community/topic/61143-kh-19the-last-jedi-mafia-day-3/page-3#entry933722

Now when I'm doing things I normally do and you happened to be the target, you suddenly put on a "I'm better than you and I don't care" mask. Just having a single vote on you is enough to shift you into a drama queen mode?