1091 replies to this topic

[Kitkat16]

 

Samus is sketchy as all hell. First he claims Nurse, now claiming town Vig. Town Vig is not that important of a role tbh, and to claim nurse to steer possible scum/werewolves/SK away from lynching him is no way beneficial to town as now the 3 bad faction are likely to go after someone else, putting the likes of more important town roles in jeopardy. Not including the fact that he supposedly already used his ability, was out of shots, and yet still looked to fake RC to save a used up role that he couldn't reuse unless he actually came forward with his real one. Yet, he didn't come forward when he was out of shots D3 with his real role, he didn't come out D3 saying he killed Rafay, and now suddenly he has. You know what's easy to claim.....a werewolf claiming town Vig saying he killed MK. Whose going to call him out? If him and his other werewolves killed MK, it's not like scum or SK would come out and say, no he didn't. Let alone, the mere fact a Vig would use their ability N2, with little to go on besides a wagon on Imran, and risk killing a town member, for which he even admits MK was not anymore suspicious then the 6 other people on the wagon. A vig, picking 1 out of 7 possible people N2 to kill and risk killing off a good town member? Who does that. I bet he's not even a Vig at all, just a 1 shot type Werewolf character.

​Did he really roleclaim Nurse after? Wow..

​He would've already known there is a re-loader so he could say that's why but still.. it's all very odd. Combined with the risks of reloading Samus you laid out, it's an very compelling case for not relading him.

​A little wary of taken advice from scum but it seems like good, logical analysis to me.

 

Military - Delta Officers 1,102 posts Resources: Nation ID:593353 Souls Baptized:∞ Squadron:Alpha Rhizo's analysis of TW and Samus is bang on, I think. The only thing I have to add is that I still don't want to lynch Rhizo today. Rafay first, imo. If we wait to leave Rafay til tomorrow, we risk three kills tonight instead of two. We need as many people alive as possible. So my vote remains on Rafay, but Rhizo is dead tomorrow. To be make sure this is not overlooked: imo AbT PLEASE DO NOT RELOAD SAMUS TONIGHT.

​Lynching Rhizo today eh? Hmm.. that's an interesting idea. He is the only one we absolutely know for sure is scum.. but you do bring up a good point that Rafay could get more kills in. And Rafay not posting isn't helping his case.

​I guess lynching Rafay first is the better thing. I agree. 
​

 

 

Yes, that occurred to me too. (The fact that he's the only one we know with absolute certainty is scum.) But I stick by what I said about Rafay getting an extra kill in.

[Samus]

wow

[Ali bin Turban]

 

 

Night 1, there were 3 kills - supposedly 1 mafia, 1 werewolf & 1 SK? Night 2, there were 3 kills. But I used my action to target MK and kill him and so that means either 1 of the 3 scum faction were either inactive, an x shot SK or a faction's action was blocked. Night 3, inclined to think Rafay is an x shot as I don't believe all 3 actions got blocked last night

 

 

Can I assume from this that you are a 1-shot Vig and only used your power on N2 when you killed MK?

 

yes.

 

and ABT how don't we gain anything?

 

If Rhizo dies tonight, we have an extra day to lynch scum?

In addition, you don't think your third scenario is a VERY risky move to make from the point of view of a werewolf?

 

There are 10 towns, 4 scums at this moment. Assuming worse case scenario (no kills blocked all lynches are bad):

 

Scenario 1: If you're Vig and I reload you: We lynch Rafay and then 3 people die at night

- D5 there are 8 towns and 2 scums...we misslynch + 1NK

- D6 there are 6 towns and 2 scums...we misslynch + 1NK

- D7 there are 4 towns and 2 scums...we misslynch + 1NK

- D8 there are 2 towns and 2 scums - we lose

 

Scenario 2: If I don't reload you: We lynch Rafay and then 2 people die at night

- D5 there are 8 towns and 3 scums...we lynch Rhizo + 1NK

- D6 there are 7 towns and 2 scums...we misslynch + 1NK

- D7 there are 5 towns and 2 scums...we misslynch + 1NK

- D8 there are 3 towns and 2 scums - we misslynch + 1NK

- D9 there are 1 town and 2 scums - we lose

 

That's the math: worst case scenario we don't gain anything from reloading you. We actually get one more day to think and act if I don't reload you.

In scenario 1, f we manage to block a kill then we'd gain additional  misslynch chance, but getting that block is not something we can count on. 

 

To summarize, there's not much to be gained and I don't like the risk, especially considering your story and the coincidences that happened on N2...unless you can see some benefits?

Samus, on 24 Feb 2018 - 01:33, said:


In addition, you don't think your third scenario is a VERY risky move to make from the point of view of a werewolf?
 

Yeah, w can talk about it too. What are your thoughts about that?

[brewersalliance]

so I havent had the time to read everything since Ive been busy AF, but one thing just does not make sense to me.  I dont get why Samus would lie about being the vig and claim nurse.  It is way to convenient to say "oh I am actually the vig and I rolled the dice and got lucky and killed MK"   

to me it just sounds like bait, and Samus is trying to get an extra kill as a PGO

 

if he was the vig and used his shot, why claim nurse after the shot is used?  He could have just claimed vig and said he killed MK right away and got his shot reloaded.  I do not really see any benefit from lying as town

[Samus]

if he was the vig and used his shot, why claim nurse after the shot is used?  He could have just claimed vig and said he killed MK right away and got his shot reloaded.  I do not really see any benefit from lying as town

 

 

i've explained this already. fake claim was to avoid being early NK'd. Nurse is pretty much just a vanilla town. If I RC'd my real role initially, you don't think I would've been dead earlier on in this game?

 

I mean I get that you guys are trying to be analytical and whatnot, but the PGO scenario and TW being wolf is extremely risky to come out with from the point of view of a werewolf at this point of the game atleast. The whole game everyone's had me in their "townie" book, it would be stupid for me "as a werewolf" to pull a move like that now and change the whole narative. It would be something maybe I would do if there were any heat on me.

 

In addition ABT, you only point out worst case scenario's. I hear you, but the best case scenario is truly to kill Rafay & Rhizo today. Your scenario with mis lynches should be a last resort strategy not the initial. Not realistic, but the primary goal should be to lynch scum daily. Killing Rafay & Rhizo tonight should be the goal.

[brewersalliance]

Personally I am finding it hard to believe you.  You lied about being a nurse, and you admit it, so IMO anything you say becomes suspect and I hold almost no weight to your statements.  Rhizo still needs to die but I think you should be next 

[Robert2424]

 

I'll say the following. If samus isn't dead by tomorrow we have really dumb scum or he is scum.

 

is the objective of all mafia games to kill samus asap

 

Wait, now your a Vig, your too flip floppity. Samus has landed in my top suspects now. 

[Samus]

Personally I am finding it hard to believe you.  You lied about being a nurse, and you admit it, so IMO anything you say becomes suspect and I hold almost no weight to your statements.  Rhizo still needs to die but I think you should be next 

This sounds scummy as hell. A player lying about their role doesn't automatically mean they are scum, there are other motives to deceiving the players other than to form a wagon.

 

I lied partly because I wanted to stay alive longer, but also to see how that would influence others decisions.

 

So tell me who killed MK? And tell me why what reason I would be asking for a reload, if I were not town vig, other than to kill Rhizo tonight.

 

You can vote for me and push a wagon (doubt it will work though), but you'd just be doing the werewolf's work for them. We're on the same team >_>

 

Well maybe if you do decide to lynch me, then werewolves won't have to waste their kill on me, maybe they'd just kill TW instead and we'll be 2 town down.

 

 

 

I'll say the following. If samus isn't dead by tomorrow we have really dumb scum or he is scum.

 

is the objective of all mafia games to kill samus asap

 

Wait, now your a Vig, your too flip floppity. Samus has landed in my top suspects now. 

 

Maybe if you didn't ignore my posts, and actually read them, you'd understand what's happening

 

This is playing right into werewolves hands, you guys not seeing this. 

[Robert2424]

Thats just bad play Samus. 

[Sister Midnight]

 

Night 1, there were 3 kills - supposedly 1 mafia, 1 werewolf & 1 SK? Night 2, there were 3 kills. But I used my action to target MK and kill him and so that means either 1 of the 3 scum faction were either inactive, an x shot SK or a faction's action was blocked. Night 3, inclined to think Rafay is an x shot as I don't believe all 3 actions got blocked last night

 
 
Can I assume from this that you are a 1-shot Vig and only used your power on N2 when you killed MK?
 

yes.
 
and ABT how don't we gain anything?
 
If Rhizo dies tonight, we have an extra day to lynch scum?In addition, you don't think your third scenario is a VERY risky move to make from the point of view of a werewolf?

You still haven’t explained why you targeted MK. If you are a 1shot townie vig why would you use your one shot on night 1?

[Samus]

 

 

 

Night 1, there were 3 kills - supposedly 1 mafia, 1 werewolf & 1 SK? Night 2, there were 3 kills. But I used my action to target MK and kill him and so that means either 1 of the 3 scum faction were either inactive, an x shot SK or a faction's action was blocked. Night 3, inclined to think Rafay is an x shot as I don't believe all 3 actions got blocked last night

 
 
Can I assume from this that you are a 1-shot Vig and only used your power on N2 when you killed MK?
 
 

yes.
 
and ABT how don't we gain anything?
 
If Rhizo dies tonight, we have an extra day to lynch scum?In addition, you don't think your third scenario is a VERY risky move to make from the point of view of a werewolf?

You still haven’t explained why you targeted MK. If you are a 1shot townie vig why would you use your one shot on night 1?

 

maybe read the thread?

Y'all seem to be more focused on my reason behind lying when it's quite clear i'm town more than finding who the next scum are.

 

Wolves are probably jumping for joy behind the scenes.

 

Not going to bother re-explain myself lol, if y'all want to lynch me - go ahead.

[Ali bin Turban]

If I were to guess who you're, Samus, I'd say you're indeed a town Vig, but other scenarios are possible and cannot be ignored. There are other roles (like JOAT) that can be scum aligned and can be reloaded, but none of them would allow nasty tricks to be pulled, so I think they're out of the picture.

 

The only one that allows to trick the town is PGO. He could be confirmed as a Vig in a scenario when a scum is discovered, if he manages to lure someone to visit him. At the same time, if Reloader dies, Vig turns into a simple townie so it's easy to explain why he's not being targeted.

I admit it's not a strategy without risk, but in case of success it almost equals mafia victory (mafia confirmed as town with so many other players being unknown and just 2 misslynches available). That's why no matter the odds it's a great risk.

 

A weak point here is TW's statement that he visited Samus (which in case he's PGO, condemns both of them). It could be mistake, it could be meant to assure visiting Samus is safe, but still it's putting the fate of the whole faction on one bold move, which wouldn't be wise.

 

I want to believe you're Vig, but all you can give is your word. Assuming you made that lucky shot at MK, how can you prove it? It can be easily explained other way (like a normal situation where every scum faction delivers a kill). If for example Rafay turns out to be an "odd night Serial Killer" (I mentioned it some post ago, but messed it up then) it will be a strong proof that there were other kill sources on N2...but for now there are no such indicators.

[Samus]

If for example Rafay turns out to be an "odd night Serial Killer" (I mentioned it some post ago, but messed it up then) it will be a strong proof that there were other kill sources on N2...but for now there are no such indicators.

 

Fair play.

 

When Rafay is lynched, we'll get to find out before the night starts if he had a modifier like x shot or "odd night". Hopefully that will 100% confirm my role.

 

A lot of people have chimed in on this situation I have presented, some have kept entirely quiet.

[Ali bin Turban]

 

I can reveal other information but will hold onto it until I talk to Mod, as I don't want to feel like I'm "ruining" the game or be unfair, though I don't think my revealing it would do so, as I planned on revealing it anyway when I claimed, but in fairness to game I'll ask Kevin first.  Nothing I've said is me ruining the game, as it's my fair input on who I think possible werewolves are for which I was trying to find and my love for the game.

I have an interesting idea, but first I'd like to hear if Rhizo is going to reveal some information as he mentioned.

[Rhizoctonia]

 

Personally I am finding it hard to believe you.  You lied about being a nurse, and you admit it, so IMO anything you say becomes suspect and I hold almost no weight to your statements.  Rhizo still needs to die but I think you should be next 

This sounds scummy as hell. A player lying about their role doesn't automatically mean they are scum, there are other motives to deceiving the players other than to form a wagon.

 

I lied partly because I wanted to stay alive longer, but also to see how that would influence others decisions.

 

So tell me who killed MK? And tell me why what reason I would be asking for a reload, if I were not town vig, other than to kill Rhizo tonight.

 

You can vote for me and push a wagon (doubt it will work though), but you'd just be doing the werewolf's work for them. We're on the same team >_>

 

Well maybe if you do decide to lynch me, then werewolves won't have to waste their kill on me, maybe they'd just kill TW instead and we'll be 2 town down.

 

 

 

I'll say the following. If samus isn't dead by tomorrow we have really dumb scum or he is scum.

 

is the objective of all mafia games to kill samus asap

 

Wait, now your a Vig, your too flip floppity. Samus has landed in my top suspects now. 

 

Maybe if you didn't ignore my posts, and actually read them, you'd understand what's happening

 

This is playing right into werewolves hands, you guys not seeing this. 

 

 

 

Who killed MK?  You and your fellow werewolves?  Now you could just be using that to use for your story, and whose going to say different?  Not like werewolves are going to come out and say you're lying if you're one.  Not saying 100% you're, but you act as if you claiming that makes you somehow locked in town.

 

I already explained why.  You very well could be a werewolves player with a 1 shot and already used it.  Now you want reloaded, and you and your other werewolf will in fact kill me, but not because of a reloaded vig town, but because it'll just be the normal werewolf kill, or you could be a werewolf vig and want reloaded so you get two kills tonight, you claiming you killed me while your other werewolf kills another.  Or you could be a Werewolf vig, who still hasn't used it, and maybe bank another shot?  Not sure if AbT reloads someone who hasn't used it if they still get an extra shot, meaning they have 2 to use.  

I haven't heard from Mod if ABT reloads you tonight if you even could use it.  I don't see how you could use it the same night you're reloaded, as at the start of the night you had no power as you claim, so don't see how, and to me would have to wait another night.  Thus reloading you is absolutely pointless and a total risk.  But have to see if Kevin will answer, or maybe he did and I missed.

 

Lying about your role is one thing, though don't find strategy smart for town to use is you'll always have this surrounding suspicion you are switching claims.  But the fact you fake claimed after you were basically a VT make absolutely zero sense and quite harmful to town.  And you guessing right, out of 7 people, with nothing more then MK being on the lynch of Imran is not convincing, the same as anyone else, and at the end of day before your supposed Vig kill you voted CoD.  
 

 

 

I can reveal other information but will hold onto it until I talk to Mod, as I don't want to feel like I'm "ruining" the game or be unfair, though I don't think my revealing it would do so, as I planned on revealing it anyway when I claimed, but in fairness to game I'll ask Kevin first.  Nothing I've said is me ruining the game, as it's my fair input on who I think possible werewolves are for which I was trying to find and my love for the game.

I have an interesting idea, but first I'd like to hear if Rhizo is going to reveal some information as he mentioned.

 

 

 

Still waiting a response from Kevin about it.  I left that up to him, as even though I gave up, I don't intend to ruin his game if he rather thinks it would make it unfair, or make it unfair for one side or the other.  I care about the integrity of the game, be it I'm all but dead, and don't want to ruin it.  That being said, my information I don't necessarily believe only favors Town or Werewolves, and in fact could be useful to both.  But again, I'm leaving it up to him.

[Sister Midnight]

I was initially going to wait to I saw an obvious time to use it.
 
Nothing specific about him that I couldn't say about others.
 
My suspected list of scum were the ones that voted for Imran with no real context apart from "YEAH I AGREE WITH SBG. VOTE!". And when he was eventually killed and found not to be scum, I knew I was going to use my action on one of them.

Sorry I didn’t see this. This really is shady as hell! A one shot vig just semi-randomly picks a target on the first night, then pretends to be a nurse so he won’t get NKed, because scum is less likely to kill a nurse than a person who used his one shot, then announces his role and asks to be reloaded? Nope. Not working for me at all!

scum:
Rhiz
Afay

Looking scummy:
Samus

Town:
Me
Robert2424 - RC'ed and confirmed by Kevinh
Ali bin Turban - RC'ed and confirmed by Robert


Looks townie, but can’t rule out werewolves:
Brewersalliance - confirmed by TW (but could be a werewolf)
Jazzy95 - there's still possibility for him to be Werewolf FBI Agent
The Warrior - there's still possibility for him to be Werewolf Cop

Not sure / no clear reading
Canik
Kitkat16
Lachiton
LordSunday
Yehom

Because I’m on iPad mini it is hard for me to count posts, but some peeps in the not sure category, are hardly posting at all.

[Kitkat16]

Samus' posts are super weird. Is there some sort of category of player where they win if they get lynched?

[Lachiton]

Samus fake claiming nurse after he fired his shot is I guess what raised the red flag. The only possible reason Samus decided to use his shot was because Reloader was revealed. But still killing MK on N2 was a huge gamble and could have backfired easily. Only thing I find weird is that you were already on the good books of AbT, why would you make such a bold play if you're scum? 

 

Anyways I dont envy the choice that AbT has to take tonight. But you are already weighing in the pros and cons so I guess you will take the right decision. Just dont reveal your final decision here, make the wolves guess lol.

 

Ok a crazy thought - what if Samus is second SK? I know it sounds bit of a stretch as that would mean around 8 anti town players but as Rhizo said the set up is not favorable for scum as well with different factions killing each other. @Jazzy, can you please investigate Samus tonight, just for my peace of mind? With Rafay dead, theres not much to do for you with your role anyways.

 

 

Samus' posts are super weird. Is there some sort of category of player where they win if they get lynched?

Jester

 

But this role doesn't exist in the Greater Mafia wiki so I guess not present in this game.

[Robert2424]

Jester better not be a role. The most trolley role there is. 

[Ali bin Turban]

@KevinH just to be sure there's a place for this discussion at all. Can a Reloader reload 1 shot Vig and then Vig kill his target, during the same night?