1091 replies to this topic

[Canik]

We may still support it, although shooting Yehom would not be the most elegant thing for town to do. Also Samus should decide himself who to chose.

​Hehe right, the shooting Yehom part must be altered of course. I'd suggest Lach, LS, Kitkat, or SM instead. Particularly Lach & LS, their efforts don't feel as genuine to me. 

[LordSunday]

 

We may still support it, although shooting Yehom would not be the most elegant thing for town to do. Also Samus should decide himself who to chose.

​Hehe right, the shooting Yehom part must be altered of course. I'd suggest Lach, LS, Kitkat, or SM instead. Particularly Lach & LS, their efforts don't feel as genuine to me. 

 

 

I apologize, I've been hitting the end of pre-spring break work and it takes a toll moreso than other times

[The Warrior]

I just noticed that there are still 5 days left till deadline and I honestly don't see this discussion going anywhere other than town and 'townies' following Ali's strategy, which I could care less about, but since I feel that my power would be more productively used, I'll come forth. Town already had a suspicion that there was a role blocker in play, which is only half true. I'm Lieutenant Kaydel Ko Connix, a Town Jailkeeper. 

 

I've used my ability every night and these were my targets:

N1: Kitkat

N2: Rhizo

N3: Samus

N4: Rhizo

 

Note: I do not get a result from Kevin, so there is no way of determining whether or what I blocked from either side.

 

N1 I just fished, seeing how Kitkat was acting kind of fishy D1 (which he has been doing the entire game). Seeing as there were 3 kills nevertheless, it's safe to say that Kitkat didn't kill anybody, but it doesn't rule him out from a scum perspective. N2 I targeted Rhizo as I saw that he called some inactive people out, so I guessed he'd be a viable target to be killed (this was also before it was really confirmed that there were multiple anti-town factions). D3 there were still 3 deaths, but Samus said he Vig-killed MK which could be possible if I blocked the mafia kill that night, but Rhizo already dismissed that theory (which is why I brought it up in the first place, seeing as I knew I blocked Rhizo that night whilst protecting him). N3 is the most tricky one to figure out. I targeted Samus because he came out as the Nurse, so I decided it would be best to keep him protect him. My reasoning would be if he was telling the truth, anti-town factions would probably want him dead, even though he's just a Nurse, he's a protective role nonetheless. If he was lying and he was scum, I would block him anyway and maybe block a kill. Lo and behold that night nobody died. We already know that the mafia kill bounced off of Rafay, but that leaves us with 2 other kills. It leaves us with couple of scenarios: 1) both Rafay and werewolves targeted Samus and I successfully blocked 2 kills at once, 2) l only blocked the kill from one source and the other kill was either on Rafay again or something else prevented it in another way, 3) Samus is a werewolf and I blocked a kill that way. It's food for thought, but it at least dismisses again the claim that Samus would be a Werewolf PGO as I've visited him before, however it doesn't completely rule him out as a werewolf just quite yet. N4 was a no-brainer, stopping the mafia's kill means at least 1 person more to survive the night and most likely more time for town to figure out the werewolves. 

 

So Ali are you still on board for your plan, or do you really want me to just block the supposed vig, or even you from reloading? I know for a fact that werewolves are coming for me after this, so I really hope that there is a doctor in the room.

 

Also just going back to Ali's comment about TW and Jazzy having equal chance of being werewolf, reading back I kind of agree with the sentiment, however I do feel more that a SK is so much more niche and anti-everything that it would make more sense for an anti-town faction to have the FBI agent, as it also serves as a kind of cover townie role. The same could said for the Town/Werewolf Cop, but I personally think that it would make more sense seeing for the cop to be pro town as there has been also been a Town Seer, town kind of needs all those investigate roles to stand a chance against the onslaught.   

Thank you for the information, Yehom. This is helpful. Now the question is what other roles exist that could have prevented a kill? Do we have a doctor? Is there still a roleblocker present (town or werewolf)?

 

The existence of a Jailkeeper does put ABT's plan back in play since he is most likely a more pressing target for the werewolves than ABT or Samus. If we decided to try the plan it would mean:

 

-ABT reloads Samus.

-Samus takes an educated guess and picks a target to shoot off of the short list of "unhelpful people".

-Yehom picks a target to jail off of the list. He would have to make sure it's a different target than Samus chooses to shoot though so as not to block Samus' shot.

-A Doctor (if present) should protect Yehom.

 

What are everyone's thoughts about this? Pros? Cons?

@Samus - Do you have a shortlist of people you would use your action on if you were reloaded?

[Ali bin Turban]

My guess would be that remaining roles are: Doctor, Watcher, Roleblocker, and maybe a Hider? The scum should at this point be almost certain on who the doc is. The con of Samus/Yehom focusing on intercepting scum is that they may hit the doctor.

 

Now, if the scum are indeed among the remaining four, it's easy game now, as we can just lynch them one by one in any order we like (we can miss 2 times). Problem is, what to do if the scum are not among the unknown 4. Then they can be everywhere, like even the exotic one of Canik can be a werewolf miller and at the same time Jazzy being a Werewolf FBI agent (Unless we know the second Werewolf role this scenario is possible). Still, trying to backtrack to the people with the known roles won't be viable...we don't have tools to be honest.

 

I think we need to focus on the remaining ones until we make more discoveries. I propose we write our types on who might be the remaining 2 scum to create some pressure and let Samus know what are our thoughts. He shouldn't vote so that the scum won't know who will he target (I know this way he'll be probably blocked, but at least we'll have a discussion and a preparation for the next day).

We need everyone to share their thoughts on the remaining four and who the scum is (if you suspect scum is outside of the unknown 4, tell us)

 

Starting from myself:

 

Kitkat: Whatever he may say about that, I don't find him helpful. I don't see him prodding or asking questions, just commenting on the situation with one-liners. He's active but his activity is not bearing any fruits. Hasn't told us who the scum might be.

 

Lachiton: Not very active, but has more thoughts to share than Kitkat. Yet the most dominant thought he shares is "remember, all those peopled that RCed are not confirmed". While it's true, it feels like he's trying to distract town. Especially since he does not try to push into any direction. Hasn't told us who the scum might be, even though he promised such analysis few days ago.

 

Lord Sunday: I have nothing against him, except that he's to silent. When he shows up he adds value to the conversation.

 

SM: Can't say anything about her, as she just reports current situation: "People that RCed seems townish (except for Samus) and the rest gives her no reads". Surely, she might be town trying to help, but it's not really working.

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

Assuming there are 2 scum among them, I don't think it will be Kitkat - Lachiton team (it sometimes feels as if they share the same thoughts and I guess scum would try to create some distance). My guess would be one of them and then SM or LS.

[Yehom]

-Samus takes an educated guess and picks a target to shoot off of the short list of "unhelpful people".

I would like to point out though that this is all assuming that Samus is actually a Vig, or even actually town. I'm still not entirely convinced he's town and him begging Ali to reload him could just as easy be a X-shot Werewolf asking to be reloaded as well 

[The Warrior]

Am I remembering incorrectly or didn't Kevin say somewhere that the alignment of roles listed in the "Greater Ideas" list was not changed?

 

If Kevin did not change the alignment of any roles listed than Samus could not be a werewolf Vigilante. These are the possible werewolf roles listed:

1. Werewolf
2. Werewolf
3. Werewolf
4. Werewolf
5. Alpha Werewolf
6. Werewolf Roleblocker
7. Werewolf One-shot Bulletproof
8. Werewolf Cop
9. Werewolf Mason
10. Werewolf Watcher
11. Werewolf FBI Agent
12. Ninja Werewolf
13. Werewolf One-shot PGO
14. Werewolf Miller (investigates as Mafia)
15. Werewolf Supersaint
16. Werewolf Godfather (essentially a named werewolf)
17. Werewolf Gravedigger

So if Samus is a werewolf asking to be reloaded one of the following would have to be true:

• Samus is a 1-shot bulletproof werewolf
• Samus is a 1-shot werewolf PGO
• Samus just wants ABT to waste his action by "reloading" a non-reloadable role

[Canik]

So if Samus is a werewolf asking to be reloaded one of the following would have to be true: Samus is a 1-shot bulletproof werewolf Samus is a 1-shot werewolf PGO Samus just wants ABT to waste his action by "reloading" a non-reloadable role

​Assuming this is accurate the risk of reloading Samus if rather low and it seems we could gain significant info from it.

​For example if Samus is reloaded and there are two kills at night and Samus claims he made one of them he's probably telling the truth since there shouldn't be a werewolf vig. If he successfully kills a werewolf he's DEFINITELY legit.

​There may also be some potential for false info to be created. Say Samus is really a werewolf, which means he should not be vig, and claims he got roleblocked to explain why there was no night kill. Then we might assume we were on the right track with our suggested targets (the 4 unknowns) and target them while it's Samus who is really the werewolf. But all we need to do is not assume that and be aware that it could be a false flag.

​@Samus the day is going to be over soon hope to hear from you soon otherwise I guess we shouldn't do it.

[The Warrior]

Assuming Kevin did not change any alignments of the listed roles we could very quickly learn a lot about Samus.

 

The question about whether or not Samus was/is a 1-shot werewolf PGO *could be* answered right now. If any person alive claims to have visited Samus on night 1 it guarantees that Samus was not a 1-shot werewolf PGO. You wouldn't have to role claim necessarily to do so, you would only have to claim to have visited Samus on night 1. If you are town and you visited Samus on night 1 claiming to have done so will eliminate the possibility entirely that he was a 1-shot werewolf PGO and therefore ABT reloading him carries virtually zero risk for the town.

 

Of course it is possible that a dead player could have visited Samus on night 1.. whether or not Samus was a 1-shot PGO that killed them though we don't know.

 

The risk to town of reloading a 1-shot werewolf PGO is relatively low though. If the PGO would use his shot the same night that he is reloaded it would just mean that ABT would die at night for reloading him. But if ABT is the only town member who visits Samus at night, we would only lose one townie before we could just lynch Samus the next day.

 

The werewolves could choose to take advantage of this action though by killing ABT tonight. That would essentially frame Samus as a werewolf PGO and cause us to look his way tomorrow. However, in this case, if there is a second kill at night (other than ABT) it would mean that Samus was indeed reloaded as a town Vig and managed to shoot his target. At the very least this would clear Samus as being town.

 

If Samus was/is a 1-shot bulletproof werewolf and is reloaded that doesn't really hurt us that much either because we can always lynch him during the day to get rid of him later if we have to.

 

If Samus is any other werewolf role just trying to waste ABT's reloading ability we would obviously only see 1 night kill (by the werewolves assuming our Jailkeeper doesn't block them) and have a good idea that Samus is a werewolf since otherwise he would have tried to shoot someone as a Vig. Now again, the werewolves could take advantage of this by choosing to not kill someone (and let Samus make the only night kill). They could use this to make us think that it was actually the werewolf faction that made the kill and that Samus didn't do anything and only wasted ABT's action. In this case though there would in theory still only be one night kill so the town is no worse off except for having to keep a slightly closer eye on Samus moving forward.

 

 

@Kevin - Can you please confirm that you did NOT change the alignment of any of the clearly listed roles from the Greater Ideas Mafia list?

[KevinH]

@Kevin - Can you please confirm that you did NOT change the alignment of any of the clearly listed roles from the Greater Ideas Mafia list?

Confirmed.

[Jazzy95]

Vote: Rhizo

[The Warrior]

 

@Kevin - Can you please confirm that you did NOT change the alignment of any of the clearly listed roles from the Greater Ideas Mafia list?

Confirmed.

 

Because of this I am reasonably comfortable with ABT reloading Samus at night. The risk is minimal.

 

So if ABT reloads Samus (assuming he is a town Vig), we need to make sure that Yehom does not jail Samus' target since it would protect them. Any ideas about the best way to go about this?

 

I also want to note that I am concerned with the lack of participation from certain people. Again, I understand real life stuff comes up but we could really use input from everyone here. I would really like to see everyone start contributing. I'd like to hear Samus' thoughts before the game goes to night and we put any plan into action. I'd like to hear the thoughts that Brewers promised us several days ago. I'd also like to hear more from anyone who has not role claimed up to this point. You are the one's that are still "hiding" something (and no I'm not saying that anyone who hasn't role claimed is scum).

 

As it stands now Rhizo has received the 4 votes necessary to be lynched at tomorrow's deadline. I'd really like to see everyone contribute before deadline tomorrow..

[The Warrior]

Bump. Anyone care to chime in? We are ~24 hours away from deadline.

[brewersalliance]

Here are my thoughts.  I personally do not trust Samus's claim since he did lie at first, however he also did claim a player name and no one has countered the player name, so it makes it likely that his name was at least true, but I do agree that I think there is more to gain than there is to lose with this strategy.  Worst case, we lose ABT but then it outs Samus as a ww, which in turn, would let us lynch him and therefor make it more likely we would win the game.  while I have not been very active over the last two weeks or so, I am going to try to get back into the swing of things.  I am guessing we will have a ww in the group of LS, SM or Lachtion, as I have not really been able to get a read on any of them (at least back when I somewhat was paying attention)

also vote: rhizo

 

just in case someone unvotes and no one notices

[The Warrior]

Just to make it clear, a name claim is utterly useless. It is highly likely that any scum player was given a "safe claim". Having said that I stand by what I said earlier, I think the risk of having ABT reload Samus is minimal and the reward is potentially great.

 

Keep in mind that if ABT is killed at night it does NOT mean that Samus is scum. It could mean that but it also could mean that the werewolves chose to kill ABT to try to frame Samus as a 1-shot werewolf PGO. But again, if any living player visited Samus on night 1 it guarantees that Samus is NOT a 1-shot werewolf PGO. In that case, I actually hope that that person speaks up and tells us that they targeted Samus on night 1.

[The Warrior]

There are currently 5 votes on Rhizo. It only take 4 to lynch him. I will of course be voting for him but I am not going to officially cast my vote right now to put him at L-1 because we don't want to see him hammered before deadline. We need people to check in here and share thoughts before the game goes to night.

 

@Samus - Your thoughts about the plan being discussed? Do you have a list of people whom you would choose to kill from?

@ABT - Do you want to go through with the plan?

@Yehom - Do you have an idea of whom your would choose to jail?

@Anyone who hasn't role claimed and is quiet - Anything else you'd like to share?

[brewersalliance]

if any living player visited Samus on night 1 it guarantees that Samus is NOT a 1-shot werewolf PGO.

 

did I miss something?  how does that guarantee he is not a 1 shot PGO? 

wait never mind, found it 

[Ali bin Turban]

So if ABT reloads Samus (assuming he is a town Vig), we need to make sure that Yehom does not jail Samus' target since it would protect them. Any ideas about the best way to go about this?

 

If we chose targets then scum will know them. If they know they're targets, they'll block Samus/Yehom. If they don't know they will still block someone (why shouldn't they?). That means, as long as Roleblocker exists reloading Samus might not give us any benefits.

 

That being said I'll go and reload Samus. At the same time I'm going to ask Yehom or our Doctor to consider me as one of their possible night targets (just consider, in the end you may chose another target). This way scum will have to risk getting blocked if they try to frame Samus and kill me.

[Kitkat16]

There are currently 5 votes on Rhizo. It only take 4 to lynch him. I will of course be voting for him but I am not going to officially cast my vote right now to put him at L-1 because we don't want to see him hammered before deadline. We need people to check in here and share thoughts before the game goes to night.

 

@Samus - Your thoughts about the plan being discussed? Do you have a list of people whom you would choose to kill from?

@ABT - Do you want to go through with the plan?

@Yehom - Do you have an idea of whom your would choose to jail?

@Anyone who hasn't role claimed and is quiet - Anything else you'd like to share?

 

I don't have much to say. What I will say is that if I'm VT, it wouldn't be wise for me to say that because scum will know not to kill me and to target someone else. If I'm a powerful PR, I don't want to out myself and have scum know to target me. If I'm a weak PR, I don't want scum to know to target someone else. All in all, it's not worth roleclaiming until I have to. Because of that, it limits what I can say. The rest of you have known PR roles which means that you have a lot more freedom to say whatever you like. I can assure you that if any brainwaves strike, you'll be the first to know.

[Yehom]

As long as there are 2 werewolves, I agree with Ali that it would be stupid for me to announce who I'm going to target at night. Also I'm pretty sure that if there is not a Doctor in this game, I'm not going to make the next day

[KevinH]

Snoke: I did not expect Skywalker to be so wise. We will give him and the Jedi Order the death he desires. After the rebels are gone, we will go to his planet and obliterate the entire island. [Rey tries to use the Force to take back her lightsaber, but Snoke uses it to hit her on the head] Such spunk. Look here now. [uses the Force to move Rey toward the viewport to show her the Resistance transport ships being destroyed one by one] The entire Resistance on those transports. Soon, they will all be gone. For you, all is lost. [Rey uses the Force to take Ren's lightsaber] Oh, and still that fiery spit of hope! You have the spirit of a true Jedi! [Rey charges at Snoke with Ren's lightsaber. Snoke picks Rey up with the Force and she lands in front of Ren. His lightsaber spins around and stops in front of him] And because of that, you must die. [uses the Force and turns Rey toward Ren] My worthy apprentice, son of darkness, heir apparent to Lord Vader. Where there was conflict, I now sense resolve. Where there was weakness, strength. Complete your training...and fulfill...your...destiny!
Ren: [picks up his lightsaber] I know what I have to do.
Rey: Ben...
Snoke: [laughs] You think you can turn him? Pathetic child... I cannot be betrayed; I cannot be beaten. I see his mind; I see his every intent. Yes! I see him turning the lightsaber to strike true! [without Snoke knowing, Ren uses the Force to face Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber toward him] And now, foolish child, he ignites it...and kills his true enemy!
[Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber ignites and Snoke is cut in half at the waist; the lightsaber flies back into Rey's hand; Ren ignites his own lightsaber and he and Rey fight Snoke's Praetorian guards]
 

Vote count:

Rhizoctonia (5): Kitkat16, Canik, Sister Midnight, Jazzy95, Brewersalliance, 
The Warrior (0): 
Lachiton (0): 
Yehom (0):  
Canik (0):
Brewersalliance (0):
Jazzy95 (0): 
LordSunday (0):
Samus (0):
Ali bin Turban (0):
Kitkat16 (0):
Sister Midnight (0):

No Lynch (0): 

Not voting:  Rhizoctonia, Yehom,  Lachiton, LordSunday, The Warrior, Samus, Ali bin Turban,

 
Rhizoctonia, Supreme Leader Snoke, Mafia Tracker has been lynched.

It is now Night 5.
Please send all actions to me by Monday, March 19, at 19:00 EDT.