A real RC can have holes in it, especially from a player who isn’t copying it word for word from the mod. Some of them have before, even when they were the truth. I take care to avoid it, but it’s possible.

 

One unlikely thing I see is your lack of results any night, you would think you’d have gotten at least one. You being you, I doubt you would pick to investigate TW, and CoD is an easy cop out answer. Ferastical I have to say would be a good choice, but it’s still convenient. You’re a master of words among us, if you suspected Ferastical, you could get him lynched. You’re more likely to investigate somebody who could be scum that wouldn’t be suspected much, such as myself.

Your RC is very convenient. Both of your RC’s are convenient.

Brewer’s, to me, seems like a bid to get out of getting lynched for the first time, even though it would be him getting caught and lynched for being scum.

 

We still have time to consider, so I ask for us to not rush votes past a deadline vote, so we don’t prematurely end the day.

Right now, independent of anything brewers has said, I believe Velocity is the SK.  I say this based on how he instantly backed TM's RC and inferred he knew if the cop was switched on or not.  The only person who can switch the cop back on if the mafia switch turned him off (which, if I were mafia, would be switched off every night) is the SK.

 

I do not pass judgement on either TMs or Brewers RC right now.  I'm still evaluating all of it.

 

That said, if we can get rid of the SK now, as a town we should, because it eliminates 1 night kill and keeps the town alive longer, delaying LYLO.

 

VOTE:  Velocity

also one other problem i just realized with Tony's RC

 

 

 

.

 

 

one problem with this.  since the cop can also get a result on the sk, he would either get a result of guilty or not guilty, or town/not town.  tony would just know that I was guilty, he would not know which faction i belong to. a cop result does not tell you the faction or role that someone has, just if they are town or not town.  this is a VERY important distinction when you have multiple scum factions in play, and tony clearly screwed that one up.  obviously being a newer player he would not realize this with his once again FAKE role claim.    his RC has some holes and issues with it.  a real RC would not.  

THis doesn't change anything. I still got a not town result. You are mafia. 

Right now, independent of anything brewers has said, I believe Velocity is the SK. I say this based on how he instantly backed TM's RC and inferred he knew if the cop was switched on or not. The only person who can switch the cop back on if the mafia switch turned him off (which, if I were mafia, would be switched off every night) is the SK.

 

I do not pass judgement on either TMs or Brewers RC right now. I'm still evaluating all of it.

 

That said, if we can get rid of the SK now, as a town we should, because it eliminates 1 night kill and keeps the town alive longer, delaying LYLO.

 

VOTE: Velocity

Neither the SK or the scum would know if the cop was active on any given night, only the cop would know when they got their results.

 

I said it’s unlikely that the cop got blocked all three nights so far, since there’s a good chance the scum and SK were trying to read into each other and at least one group did something different front the other and turned it on when it was off.

 

I never said it was impossible, or that I knew, simply unlikely and convenient.

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll reiterate it now, I’m surprised you think lowly enough of me to pull something like that as an SK.

 

I’m no brewers or TW, I don’t have amazing RC skills or manipulation ability, if I was the SK I would be backing myself into a nigh unsinkable corner, when I was set up to pretty much win or get a lot further than I have. So you might ask, “them why do it?” I wouldn’t. I’m not the SK, but I know that at least one of Tony and brewers is scum, and I believe it’s brewers at the moment, despite Tony’s attitude.

Nigh un-winnable, not nigh unsinkable, in that above post. Autocorrect threw me a boat.

Ah, the "I'm too dumb to play SK."

 

I was too dumb to play SK in Brewers GoT game, but the SK faction won.  So, its absolutely possible that you're attempt to deflect here.

 

Additionally, the SK would now know that he was effective, assuming the cop switch turned the cop off every night but TM claims he had 2 good investigations.  That means only the SK could turn it back on, and with your immediate approval of TM's RC after Brewer's RC I just find it to be more than suspicious.  It helps you to have the cop doing investigations so you can know who to kill. Plus, being immune to  night kills makes you very strong.

 

So, I'm convinced you're the SK.  I can't find fault with playing it the way you are.

 

As I said, I am not sure which RC I do believe.  I have my suspicions but nothing I'm ready to voice yet.  However, lynching the SK takes priority over resolving the dueling cop RCs as eliminating the SK helps the town live longer.

 

also one other problem i just realized with Tony's RC

 

 

 

.

 

 

one problem with this.  since the cop can also get a result on the sk, he would either get a result of guilty or not guilty, or town/not town.  tony would just know that I was guilty, he would not know which faction i belong to. a cop result does not tell you the faction or role that someone has, just if they are town or not town.  this is a VERY important distinction when you have multiple scum factions in play, and tony clearly screwed that one up.  obviously being a newer player he would not realize this with his once again FAKE role claim.    his RC has some holes and issues with it.  a real RC would not.  

THis doesn't change anything. I still got a not town result. You are mafia. 

 

Except you have no idea if I am sk or mafia with your result.  you screwed up your RC, and that is a fact.  you didnt get a result of mafia on me and the reason you said you did is because youre not the cop.  if you were the cop and i was actually scum (which i am not) you would have known that "mafia" was not my result.  instead you would just know im not town via guilty or "not town".  you would have ZERO idea if im the mafia or if im the SK.  you are sticking to me being mafia here too, even tho u have no way of knowing which it would be if you are actually the cop.  but it makes sense you would get the result wrong, since you are a newer player, and would not realize that you are faking the incorrect result.  

 

 

also one other problem i just realized with Tony's RC

 

 

 

.

 

 

one problem with this.  since the cop can also get a result on the sk, he would either get a result of guilty or not guilty, or town/not town.  tony would just know that I was guilty, he would not know which faction i belong to. a cop result does not tell you the faction or role that someone has, just if they are town or not town.  this is a VERY important distinction when you have multiple scum factions in play, and tony clearly screwed that one up.  obviously being a newer player he would not realize this with his once again FAKE role claim.    his RC has some holes and issues with it.  a real RC would not.  

THis doesn't change anything. I still got a not town result. You are mafia. 

 

Except you have no idea if I am sk or mafia with your result.  you screwed up your RC, and that is a fact.  you didnt get a result of mafia on me and the reason you said you did is because youre not the cop.  if you were the cop and i was actually scum (which i am not) you would have known that "mafia" was not my result.  instead you would just know im not town via guilty or "not town".  you would have ZERO idea if im the mafia or if im the SK.  you are sticking to me being mafia here too, even tho u have no way of knowing which it would be if you are actually the cop.  but it makes sense you would get the result wrong, since you are a newer player, and would not realize that you are faking the incorrect result.  

 

But I know you're not town.

 

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll reiterate it now, I’m surprised you think lowly enough of me to pull something like that as an SK.

 

 

that is not a defense.  thats WIFOM.  you cant just go "hey this cant be true because im not that dumb therefore I would not do it"  

 

 

 

also one other problem i just realized with Tony's RC

 

 

 

.

 

 

one problem with this.  since the cop can also get a result on the sk, he would either get a result of guilty or not guilty, or town/not town.  tony would just know that I was guilty, he would not know which faction i belong to. a cop result does not tell you the faction or role that someone has, just if they are town or not town.  this is a VERY important distinction when you have multiple scum factions in play, and tony clearly screwed that one up.  obviously being a newer player he would not realize this with his once again FAKE role claim.    his RC has some holes and issues with it.  a real RC would not.  

THis doesn't change anything. I still got a not town result. You are mafia. 

 

Except you have no idea if I am sk or mafia with your result.  you screwed up your RC, and that is a fact.  you didnt get a result of mafia on me and the reason you said you did is because youre not the cop.  if you were the cop and i was actually scum (which i am not) you would have known that "mafia" was not my result.  instead you would just know im not town via guilty or "not town".  you would have ZERO idea if im the mafia or if im the SK.  you are sticking to me being mafia here too, even tho u have no way of knowing which it would be if you are actually the cop.  but it makes sense you would get the result wrong, since you are a newer player, and would not realize that you are faking the incorrect result.  

 

But I know you're not town.

 

 

obviously you are going to say that.  You faked a RC and screwed it up multiple times.  First with Don/robert when you tried to say Don was robert and u got no result on him so u think he could still be scum and I am trying to bus him again.  Then you posted the wrong results for what you should have gotten if you were the cop.  

 

and more lies from tony:  claims he had a come to jesus moment and is deciding to actually try now in mafia.  called out on how in the other game he is playing he is still not trying.  claims "that one is different"  so whats the difference?  his partners clearly told him he actually needs to try since hes mafia in this game.

 

so here are the reasons to trust tony: 

• its tony, he couldnt possibly make this up

 

reasons to not trust him: 

• claims he investigated Don and tries to use that to tie him with me, when in reality it was velocity
• claims wrong result for his investigation
• contradicts/lies about actually wanting to play mafia seriously

 

i think its pretty clear who is lying here...

I drop all charges on Don once I realised my mistake. It happened, it was a mistake. Town please realise it was a simple mess up. 

 

The RC is completely real, but that's just a back and forth between you and I. 

 

And I know you are not town, the focus of the smallest detail doesn't take away you are some evil faction

I drop all charges on Don once I realised my mistake. It happened, it was a mistake. Town please realise it was a simple mess up. 

 

The RC is completely real, but that's just a back and forth between you and I. 

 

And I know you are not town, the focus of the smallest detail doesn't take away you are some evil faction

 

except the details are important.  the details are how you can figure out if a RC is legit or it is a fabrication.  youre basically asking everyone to ignore the fact that you have incorrect info and mistakes in your rc and to still accept it as the truth. 

It's just a misinterpretation of MK's results. Please remember that I am new to being a PR. 

and obviously you backtracked on Don, you didnt have a choice, you were called out for it.  

and obviously you backtracked on Don, you didnt have a choice, you were called out for it.  

Which is a good thing. I realised I was wrong as Dontavian was not Robert. 

It's just a misinterpretation of MK's results. Please remember that I am new to being a PR. 

 

you are new to being a scum player.  tried to fake a RC, and used the wrong verbage/terms/results for it. 

 

if it was real, you would not have known if i was mafia or a sk.  yet you stated that you KNOW i am mafia.  i know youre not gonna admit you made up the RC, but its pretty crystal clear that you did

Not made up at all. I do know you are some sort of evil, to say it was mafia was a mistake. 

 

I am cop, you are not. I am town, you are not. 

I was really busy at work today and have just been half-keeping up with my thread subscription. I'm gonna spend some time going back and analyzing the game to see if I can get a more educated idea of whose story is more believable, but a few quick thoughts:

• It's low of brewers to bring play from currently-ongoing games into play, especially when he's the mod of said game and has specific information that the rest of us except Tony don't have. Cornering Tony with information only the two of them can know is really dirty IMHO and it really shouldn't be a talking point anymore.
• The whole "Tony confused Dontavian with Velocity" seems like a really unimportant discrepancy. I honestly forgot while reading it that Velocity was the one who replaced Robert in this game when I was first reading his post, and I feel like the core action he was trying to describe is that he investigated Robert before Robert was replaced. Not saying whether the claim is true or not, just that I don't think this is a big gotcha in my view.
• The recent confusion about whether Tony knows that brewers is mafia or just scum generally is EXTREMELY important. My reading of the initial claim is that he was told specifically that brewers was mafia, which is not impossible - I'm sure I recall MK clarifying that the cop would get specific results if applicable, although I need to go back and quote it and such. If Tony is now backtracking and saying that he only knows brewers is "Guilty" then that changes his claim a lot in my mind. Tony, if you're reading this: please clarify exactly the result you got on brewers as it will just about make or break whether or not I believe your claim.

I'll post more about which way I'm actually leaning later tonight hopefully when I get a better sense of what's led up to this. 

 

Oh also, @Finster your vote on Velocity (really anyone except brewers or Tony) is absolute insanity. If you're town then there's simply no excuse for doing that - there's effectively a 100% chance that either Tony or brewers is scum since they can't both be the cop and wouldn't lie about it if they weren't scum (if they are lying townies then we deserve to lose lol), and while there are other people making themselves more or less suspicious by how they respond, there's zero way to be as confident about anyone else being scum as you should be that either brewers or Tony are.

Oh also, @Finster your vote on Velocity (really anyone except brewers or Tony) is absolute insanity. If you're town then there's simply no excuse for doing that - there's effectively a 100% chance that either Tony or brewers is scum since they can't both be the cop and wouldn't lie about it if they weren't scum (if they are lying townies then we deserve to lose lol), and while there are other people making themselves more or less suspicious by how they respond, there's zero way to be as confident about anyone else being scum s you should be that either brewers or Tony are.

Look at it like this: If Velocity is the SK, lynching him helps the town immensely. Lynching the liar out of the RCs still leaves the town in a perilous situation of facing 2 night kills, one by scum, one by the SK.

 

That said, Brewer's pointing out of TM's results about brewers does give me pause and gives credence, at least in my eyes, that TM may be the one lying here. Results matter, and reporting those results accurately matters just as much.

 

I'm not ready to change my vote yet. But I am watching this play out.

This game blew up

 

Yeah I did recall MK saying that at certain point in time the result would be distinct (scum/cop)

 

Oh also, @Finster your vote on Velocity (really anyone except brewers or Tony) is absolute insanity. If you're town then there's simply no excuse for doing that - there's effectively a 100% chance that either Tony or brewers is scum since they can't both be the cop and wouldn't lie about it if they weren't scum (if they are lying townies then we deserve to lose lol), and while there are other people making themselves more or less suspicious by how they respond, there's zero way to be as confident about anyone else being scum s you should be that either brewers or Tony are.

Look at it like this: If Velocity is the SK, lynching him helps the town immensely. Lynching the liar out of the RCs still leaves the town in a perilous situation of facing 2 night kills, one by scum, one by the SK.

 

That said, Brewer's pointing out of TM's results about brewers does give me pause and gives credence, at least in my eyes, that TM may be the one lying here. Results matter, and reporting those results accurately matters just as much.

 

I'm not ready to change my vote yet. But I am watching this play out.

 

 

So, if we're only thinking about it in terms of what we gain by lynching correctly, here are the possible outcomes:

 

1. Vote brewers/Tony, and get mafia
   1. 1 mafia lynched, (likely) 2 town night-killed
   2. Remaining 3 town, 1 mafia, 1 SK
   3. Town in LYLO, control their own destiny
2. Vote Velocity, and get SK
   1. 1 SK lynched. Doc cannot be switched off anymore
   2. If doc does not stop NK, then 1 town night-killed
      1. Remaining 4 town, 2 mafia
      2. Town in LYLO, control their own destiny
   3. If doc stops NK, then 0 town die
      1. Remaining 5 town, 2 mafia
      2. No longer LYLO

 

So yes, if we're just thinking about what possible outcome is the most beneficial, I definitely agree that getting rid of the SK is better for town than getting rid of one of the mafia, or at worst just as good.

 

The catch is that mislynching anyone (brewers, Tony, or Velocity) essentially ends the game as far as Town is concerned, outside of one of the scum factions getting greedy and going for the solo win (which is super unlikely since they gain nothing by doing that). So while successfully lynching the SK is the best possible outcome, we have nothing except play styles to go off of to know who that SK is. Velocity could just as easily be mafia or a VT or maybe even the doctor - he hasn't RCed and neither of the potential cop RCs included any sort of confirmation about Velocity, so despite all the clues people are picking up on, we don't know anything outside of our reads. In contrast, with both brewers and Tony claiming cop (especially with Tony claiming to be able to confirm that brewers is scum), it's essentially a 100% certainty that one of them is scum. Obviously we don't know which one it is, but if we're basically treating this like a LYLO situation, then we should 100% pick between the two known quantities rather than ignoring them completely and shooting in the dark.

What LWW said

 

Picking between Tony/Brewers is our best bet here

LWW, I just want to confirm that I just got a result saying he was not town. 

 

I got a little over-excited and instantly reported it as mafia. 

 

Also, slight rule edit

The Cop will return a result clearly indicating the alignment of their target, if they are successful.

(Town, Mafia, Sk)

 

For future reference while I'm going through posts.

This was in D2

LWW, I just want to confirm that I just got a result saying he was not town. 

 

I got a little over-excited and instantly reported it as mafia. 

 

Still going through posts but you sure this is your final answer? Lol I literally just quoted the mod confirming that the cop would get a clear alignment on successful (not switched off) investigation, and this directly contradicts that.

Well, this is certainly interesting.

 

To me so far Tony seems quite genuine with his posts, meanwhile Brewers comes off as desperate to save his skin. Either that claim is fake or not, kudos to Tony, it looks very real in either case.

 

FB trying to redirect our attention from the fight going on was confusing, to say the least. i don't know what he was doing, possibly like a last minute attempt at defending or just a wild accusation for Velocity... in any case, I think FB will have to start talking soon, as it's not looking good for him.

 

 

 

Yeah I did recall MK saying that at certain point in time the result would be distinct (scum/cop)

 

 

This I remember as well.

 

Vote -> Brewersalliance 

 

If I remember correct, this totals for Brewers at 4 votes... leaving us at L-1. I hope. So we could possibly chat a bit more.   

@LWW if through error or not, I am not sure but the MKs post to me does not indicate a faction. I’ll ask in my PM if I can get one