535 replies to this topic

[captainjf]

Unvote

 

I want to see how this convo plays out and I don't want a hammer to interrupt.

[Velocity]

lww was flying pretty regular, and then voted to lynch COD when it was pretty sure he would die anyways, and I believe it was to cover his tracks. I think the “he was found innocent” thing was played up too much, I think it was part of a plan to get him tailored until he was found innocent by the claimed cop, and then have him carry out the kills. He played the “COD and Velocity haven’t claimed yet” pretty well, despite himself not having claimed...

So you're basically admitting that the only thing you're pinning on me as scum is...that I hammered what was probably the second to last scum with 8 players still alive. This legitimately makes zero sense to me. I can't see any situation where I'd jump to lynch someone for having done that unless there was some other stone cold evidence that they had to be scum, but you're admitting that there's not because, well, there isn't and I'm not. And you keep spinning this idea that he was going to die when HE WASN'T. There was a solid chance that TW would have died instead since they were tied for votes. Heck, your plan was probably to hope COD lived through the night to tailor you before captain shot him so you could make he look scummy for not voting for COD, but now you're going with this approach instead as a last ditch effort to win.

Either way, if he by some chance that I think is so small it doesn’t matter ends up being town and I am wrong, I’d rather have a bodyguard s who can stop a kill than a VT, especially this late into the game. That could just be me though.

Also I think it's funny that you pull this card after captain made a great point that there's no way to prove that your claim is actually true. You conveniently haven't protected anyone who was targeted, and there are no trackers or anything that can validate your movements, which you might have gambled on being true if it was only you, me, and COD left to claim. Also it was really smart to say that you're bulletproof since it would explain why you lived to today, which you even admitted would look suspicious.

I feel genuinely confident that you're the last scum, and I hope we can just end this game today instead of dragging it out one more day.

lmfao I’m sorry, “haven’t protected anyone who was targeted.”

You do realize that I can only protect 1 person a night, right? The chances of me not picking the right person are very high compared to the chances of me picking the right person.

You know that getting me lynched will drag it out another day, because I’m not the scum lol

Captain, if I get lynched you’ll see, and you’ll know what to do, any why I’m so confident in this. If you decide to listen to me, we will end the scum.

“There was a solid chance that TW would have died instead since they were tied for votes. Heck, your plan was probably to hope COD lived through the night to tailor you before captain shot him so you could make he look scummy for not voting for COD, but now you're going with this approach instead as a last ditch effort to win.“

I’m somewhat flattered you think I would be brave enough to try this, but I’m not a very proactive scum. I would have ended up voting for him if I were scum, to try and build town credit. It’s funny that you don’t mention me killing captain, there’s been a solid chance that he would shoot me, why do you think he would be alive if I was one of his two targets. It would have been better to kill him and play it off as scum just targeting him than me not killing him and risking getting shot.

“ And you keep spinning this idea that he was going to die when HE WASN'T.”
You can keep saying this if you want, but when it comes down to it, COD vs TW, it was going to be COD 98/100 times. TW was claimed town and helping search, and had a “confirmed” role, and people generally don’t like lynching him off. COD, on the other hand, hadn’t claimed, had nothing going for him, and the only reason I didn’t vote for him was as I said, I don’t like to vote for people if I’m not sure of their allegiance. Just because “they were tied in votes” means nothing, people change their votes at the last moment all of the time. You see if every game.

[Velocity]

And to add onto it, yes. I am saying that I think you’re scum for the sole reason that you jumped onto somebody who was going to die anyways who ended up being scum. That is all there is to go off of.

What you have to go off of against me is that my role claim is “convenient” and I “haven’t protected the right person any night.” Well, doing the math for my chances of protecting the right guy...

If my napkin serves correctly,

N1 - 12 alive. 1/12 = 8%
N2 - 10 alive. 1/10 = 10%
N3 - 7 alive. 1/7 = about 15%

It’s very possible that I could have just chose to protect who the scum didn’t target.

[lilweirdward]

“ And you keep spinning this idea that he was going to die when HE WASN'T.”
You can keep saying this if you want, but when it comes down to it, COD vs TW, it was going to be COD 98/100 times. TW was claimed town and helping search, and had a “confirmed” role, and people generally don’t like lynching him off. COD, on the other hand, hadn’t claimed, had nothing going for him, and the only reason I didn’t vote for him was as I said, I don’t like to vote for people if I’m not sure of their allegiance. Just because “they were tied in votes” means nothing, people change their votes at the last moment all of the time. You see if every game.

I'm ignoring the rest of it for a minute to say that this is a flat out lie. You do remember that whoever has the most votes goes to trial by combat if no one reaches the deadline day half majority (which that day was 3), right? And you remember how trial by combat works? You get 50/50 odds to die vs the other person, and although it does get rebalanced by post count, I'm pretty sure both of them had been fairly inactive, at least compared to me and captain, so it would've been close to even odds. Saying that he was 98% going to be lynched is legitimately a lie, and whatever weirdness you're coming up with about how someone else was going to switch their vote to him (which is ridiculous, the only person who hadn't decided their vote other than you was WP, who was completely inactive) does not make those numbers remotely true when I know you know how trial by combat works, since you did a version of it IN THE GAME YOU MODDED lol.

[lilweirdward]

And to add onto it, yes. I am saying that I think you’re scum for the sole reason that you jumped onto somebody who was going to die anyways who ended up being scum. That is all there is to go off of.

What you have to go off of against me is that my role claim is “convenient” and I “haven’t protected the right person any night.” Well, doing the math for my chances of protecting the right guy...

If my napkin serves correctly,

N1 - 12 alive. 1/12 = 8%
N2 - 10 alive. 1/10 = 10%
N3 - 7 alive. 1/7 = about 15%

It’s very possible that I could have just chose to protect who the scum didn’t target.

All these stats should be doubled because Dontavian has shot someone every night, and you also haven't stopped any of those. So it's not impossible that you've just been super unlucky, but it also makes it conveniently impossible to prove is actually an honest claim.

That being said, you already criticized me earlier today for saying that I think you're likely our last scum because your voting track record in this game has not benefited town in the slightest, and back then you made it seem like that was my only reason. Now you're latching onto this other argument of mine and making it seem like this one is my only reason. How many scummy things do you have to do before I'm allowed to call you out for being scum? Apparently all you need to do is bus your scum partner I guess lol.

[Velocity]

“ And you keep spinning this idea that he was going to die when HE WASN'T.”
You can keep saying this if you want, but when it comes down to it, COD vs TW, it was going to be COD 98/100 times. TW was claimed town and helping search, and had a “confirmed” role, and people generally don’t like lynching him off. COD, on the other hand, hadn’t claimed, had nothing going for him, and the only reason I didn’t vote for him was as I said, I don’t like to vote for people if I’m not sure of their allegiance. Just because “they were tied in votes” means nothing, people change their votes at the last moment all of the time. You see if every game.

I'm ignoring the rest of it for a minute to say that this is a flat out lie. You do remember that whoever has the most votes goes to trial by combat if no one reaches the deadline day half majority (which that day was 3), right? And you remember how trial by combat works? You get 50/50 odds to die vs the other person, and although it does get rebalanced by post count, I'm pretty sure both of them had been fairly inactive, at least compared to me and captain, so it would've been close to even odds. Saying that he was 98% going to be lynched is legitimately a lie, and whatever weirdness you're coming up with about how someone else was going to switch their vote to him (which is ridiculous, the only person who hadn't decided their vote other than you was WP, who was completely inactive) does not make those numbers remotely true when I know you know how trial by combat works, since you did a version of it IN THE GAME YOU MODDED lol.

I do absolutely remember. But where you’re missing what I’m saying is that NOBODY WAS 100% DECIDED. Everybody knows TW much better than they know COD and most people who still play believe that TW is one of or our best player, if there is another option that is as good or better than TW for a lynch it *will be taken.* When it came down to it I would have fucking voted for COD to not have TW be lynched, because I recognize the value he holds as a town aligned player. I’m not 100% on the vote count thing. I’m not sure who had more posts.

[lilweirdward]

Lol so now you're admitting that you would have bussed him if I hadn't? Or am I not allowed to say that you hammering scum would have been scummy? I'm getting really confused.

[Velocity]

Lol so now you're admitting that you would have bussed him if I hadn't? Or am I not allowed to say that you hammering scum would have been scummy? I'm getting really confused.

I’m saying that I think TW is a more valuable player that COD, and would have said exactly that when voting for him, if you hadn’t come in for whatever reason you did that wasn’t what I just said.

And to add onto it, yes. I am saying that I think you’re scum for the sole reason that you jumped onto somebody who was going to die anyways who ended up being scum. That is all there is to go off of.

What you have to go off of against me is that my role claim is “convenient” and I “haven’t protected the right person any night.” Well, doing the math for my chances of protecting the right guy...

If my napkin serves correctly,

N1 - 12 alive. 1/12 = 8%
N2 - 10 alive. 1/10 = 10%
N3 - 7 alive. 1/7 = about 15%

It’s very possible that I could have just chose to protect who the scum didn’t target.

All these stats should be doubled because Dontavian has shot someone every night, and you also haven't stopped any of those. So it's not impossible that you've just been super unlucky, but it also makes it conveniently impossible to prove is actually an honest claim.

That being said, you already criticized me earlier today for saying that I think you're likely our last scum because your voting track record in this game has not benefited town in the slightest, and back then you made it seem like that was my only reason. Now you're latching onto this other argument of mine and making it seem like this one is my only reason. How many scummy things do you have to do before I'm allowed to call you out for being scum? Apparently all you need to do is bus your scum partner I guess lol.

Ah right, I did forget to account for the vig shots. But also, Dontavian shot them?? lol

Let me add those to the napkin:

N1 - 2/12 = 16.6%
N2 - 2/10 = 20%
N3 - 2/7 = 28.5%

More likely, but still not something I would say is suspicious. It’s really not that uncommon for a bodyguard to not protect a single target from an attack.
It’s funny because you’re employing a tried and true brewers tactic of “attack the RC adamantly until they start saying things just to appease you and then jump on them for it.”

It can work to catch scum, but about 40-50% of the time you’ll just end up making a townie start to break apart.

Brewers has done it before and it worked when he was scum, and you’re trying it now. I admit, there are certainly a few things I have worded odd, especially since this is happening in such a short time span and I’m not one who usually gets heavily involved in debates here in mafia or in general.

[lilweirdward]

Lol this is getting ridiculous, I honestly can't believe you're still going with this.

So where did we end up again? The only thing I've done that has supposedly convinced you that I'm scum is the same thing you were about to do if I hadn't done it first? And I guess since I didn't say the exact words you are now thinking are valid, then I must be scum. There's nothing else I've done that's scummy, just the thing you were going to do anyway, and the thing I should've done. Got it.

[Velocity]

Lol this is getting ridiculous, I honestly can't believe you're still going with this.

So where did we end up again? The only thing I've done that has supposedly convinced you that I'm scum is the same thing you were about to do if I hadn't done it first? And I guess since I didn't say the exact words you are now thinking are valid, then I must be scum. There's nothing else I've done that's scummy, just the thing you were going to do anyway, and the thing I should've done. Got it.

You’re completely avoiding my reasoning. Completely and utterly.

I would have done it for the sake of saving somebody who I believe to be more valuable to the town, I had no inkling that COD was scum. I was thinking of it as and would have laid it out in truth as me picking one person who I think is more valuable to the town over another. You jumped on him for the sake of jumping on him. To my knowledge you never mentioned a word about doing it for the sake of TW.
I like how you’re saying I suspected you for one little thing when you suspected me for literally playing as I normally do and having a role that is “convenient.”

Your responses to me haven’t been anything town inclined, I’ve only gotten scum vibes and it’s solidified my stance against you. If my responses did it for you, yours did it for me. It’s the same thing.

[lilweirdward]

*sigh*

I don't really feel like doing this anymore. You're just going in circles and getting upset, and honestly I'm starting to have a hard time telling if it's because you're upset at being caught in a lie or because you're frustrated at realizing that you're not making sense. Or both I guess. Either way, I don't think this is really adding any value anymore. If captain hasn't made up his mind by now, idk what else we're supposed to say that would convince him, and I don't think it's worth continuing to tear each other apart in hopes that the other slips up first.

Your responses to me haven’t been anything town inclined, I’ve only gotten scum vibes and it’s solidified my stance against you. If my responses did it for you, yours did it for me. It’s the same thing.

Personally I'm fine leaving it at this. I'm convinced you're scum, you're convinced I'm scum. Captain will probably sort it out one way or the other between today and the upcoming night lol. Maybe we're all wrong and Rafay has pulled a blinder this whole game or something lol, idk. We will see.

[captainjf]

I want Rafay and Don to see this and comment before I make another vote.

[Velocity]

*sigh*

I don't really feel like doing this anymore. You're just going in circles and getting upset, and honestly I'm starting to have a hard time telling if it's because you're upset at being caught in a lie or because you're frustrated at realizing that you're not making sense. Or both I guess. Either way, I don't think this is really adding any value anymore. If captain hasn't made up his mind by now, idk what else we're supposed to say that would convince him, and I don't think it's worth continuing to tear each other apart in hopes that the other slips up first.

Your responses to me haven’t been anything town inclined, I’ve only gotten scum vibes and it’s solidified my stance against you. If my responses did it for you, yours did it for me. It’s the same thing.

Personally I'm fine leaving it at this. I'm convinced you're scum, you're convinced I'm scum. Captain will probably sort it out one way or the other between today and the upcoming night lol. Maybe we're all wrong and Rafay has pulled a blinder this whole game or something lol, idk. We will see.

If Rafay is somehow scum and pulls off a giant twist like this I will literally quit usque ultra arguit.

I’m not really upset at either of those things, I really just want people to see the truth and I know for 100% certain I’m not scum. I believe you are. I’ll say, if I’m wrong, go ahead and rub it in my face, I’ll have earned it, but I’m almost certain it’s you because it isn’t me, I don’t believe it’s Don, and captain/Rafay are basically cleared in my eyes.

I’m fine leaving it at this

[Dontavian]

All these stats should be doubled because Dontavian has shot someone every night,

LWW meant to say Captain shot, not me....easy mix up with the walls of text that have exploded over night. That’s almost more activity than the rest of the game combined, so thanks both of you for putting that much effort into supporting your case. There are even citations from the Wiki Tome of Mafia knowledge.
 

Rafay is absent, which has been his trend, so I doubt he’s going to show up in the next couple hours and I can’t keep checking back in just in the hopes something else useful is said. 
 

Arguments were based basically on V accusing LWW as potentially scum because he got on the end of the COD wagon knowing COD was likely lynched anyway. LWW is going after V because he didn’t pick the right player to protect. 
 

We’re out of time...it’ll come down to a best guess in the hope it’s the scum, if we miss, Captain will be the scum target to take out the Vig and Captain will have to pick from the remaining to shoot. 

[captainjf]

I've decided.

 

Vote LWW

[lilweirdward]

Care to at least explain why?

Unless Dontavian saves me or something, good luck I guess.

[captainjf]

Care to at least explain why?

Unless Dontavian saves me or something, good luck I guess.

 

I can't point to any one specific thing. Just all factors combined, I liked Velocity's statements a tiny but more than yours. However, I appreciate the argument by both of you.

[lilweirdward]

Eh whatever. Idk what else I'm supposed to do. Just don't lose lol, be careful out there.

[Dontavian]

Well, this complicates things now... 

 

. There's literally no chance that you're mafia since no one counter claimed you killing Kevin, so outside of the remote chance that you're an SK, I still don't have reason to believe you'd be anything other than what you claimed.

Even LWW in earlier post believes Captain is who he claims to be, so unless Captain has somehow manipulated the conversation all along, he’s not scum

 

captainjf is not guilty.

 

Just got the PM. What if he's the godfather tho? He said he did kill.

 

LWW and captain, I got "not guilty"

One of Rafay’s last posts was this eloquent explanation of the results he got, BL was he shows both LWW and Captain not guilty. Subject to interpretation I guess.

 

It has literally come down to a guess and as loathe as I am to put today’s vote in the hands of an inactive, if I vote Velocity as originally inclined, that makes it 2-2 and up to Rafay to either hammer someone, vote off on someone else, or not vote and it goes to combat.

 

so:

 

VOTE

Velocity

[Velocity]

Well, this complicates things now...

. There's literally no chance that you're mafia since no one counter claimed you killing Kevin, so outside of the remote chance that you're an SK, I still don't have reason to believe you'd be anything other than what you claimed.

Even LWW in earlier post believes Captain is who he claims to be, so unless Captain has somehow manipulated the conversation all along, he’s not scum

captainjf is not guilty.

Just got the PM. What if he's the godfather tho? He said he did kill.

LWW and captain, I got "not guilty"

One of Rafay’s last posts was this eloquent explanation of the results he got, BL was he shows both LWW and Captain not guilty. Subject to interpretation I guess.

It has literally come down to a guess and as loathe as I am to put today’s vote in the hands of an inactive, if I vote Velocity as originally inclined, that makes it 2-2 and up to Rafay to either hammer someone, vote off on someone else, or not vote and it goes to combat.

so:

VOTE
Velocity

You do realize that there was a tailor when Rafay got his investigation result on lww, right? There’s almost certainly *not* a godfather, because a game where there’s a tailor (who can make scum appear as not guilty and town as guilty) there’s almost certainly not going to be a godfather, because that makes investigation roles nearly irrelevant because they can only catch the tailor. That makes it extremely unfair to investigative roles, of which we only have 1. Throw in the existence of a Miller, too, and it makes it even worse. I sincerely doubt there’s a godfather. So I think captain is 100% cleared. lww was almost certainly tailored, since he was probably the ones carrying out the kills.

We can leave it up to chance if you would like.