Plus obligatory i told you so, if velocity flips scum.

 

If Velocity is scum why hasn't anyone come out and disputed his name claim.

 

What confuses me is Brewers pushing people to name claim on top of just role claiming. What benefit would this be to the town? I can only see it being beneficial for scum.

 

 

how can that only benifit scum?  lww hid his full claim and died.  if he fully claimed and u knew he had a stone u could have chosen to protect him instead of velocity since it would have been cop with a stone.  so yeah, it actually does benefit the town. 

 

 

 

To be honest I was torn between who to protect, Velocity confirmed stone carrier and LWW confirmed cop. 

 

Your own post is literally the reason why u should fully claim and how it can benefit town lol  you were torn who to protect.  if LWW gave us all the info instead of hiding his name and stone status you more likely than not would have protected him and we still would have a cop.

 

 

i also asked people to name claim because why on earth would you hide it?  its standard practice to claim in full.  Sometimes mod make the characters and roles fit together (like a lot do here) so you can get information based on it.  

 

 

i actually had a post written up suggesting who to protect but when i clicked post TW locked the game already haha.  either way too late now.  

 

 

I get it for LWW specifically it would have been helpful as not all town have stones.

 

But at this point, for me to name claim, where is the benefit for town?

Zacch, whom did you protect n2?

 

Although one (1) of my outside the box ideas, IRON scum, could still in play.

 

 

while im not sure if the actual reason imran and company killed tony was the conflict... you are right that scum has at least one member from iron- Imran lol

 

 

One thing that can be said, there is not set order for scum kills.

 

If there was they would have had to kill Velocity (vision) first meaning my BD target would have kicked in and I would have died.

Zacch, whom did you protect n2?

 

Imran

 

Plus obligatory i told you so, if velocity flips scum.

 

If Velocity is scum why hasn't anyone come out and disputed his name claim.

 

What confuses me is Brewers pushing people to name claim on top of just role claiming. What benefit would this be to the town? I can only see it being beneficial for scum.

 

 

how can that only benifit scum?  lww hid his full claim and died.  if he fully claimed and u knew he had a stone u could have chosen to protect him instead of velocity since it would have been cop with a stone.  so yeah, it actually does benefit the town. 

 

 

 

To be honest I was torn between who to protect, Velocity confirmed stone carrier and LWW confirmed cop. 

 

Your own post is literally the reason why u should fully claim and how it can benefit town lol  you were torn who to protect.  if LWW gave us all the info instead of hiding his name and stone status you more likely than not would have protected him and we still would have a cop.

 

 

i also asked people to name claim because why on earth would you hide it?  its standard practice to claim in full.  Sometimes mod make the characters and roles fit together (like a lot do here) so you can get information based on it.  

 

 

i actually had a post written up suggesting who to protect but when i clicked post TW locked the game already haha.  either way too late now.  

 

 

I get it for LWW specifically it would have been helpful as not all town have stones.

 

But at this point, for me to name claim, where is the benefit for town?

 

 

i mean i didnt ask you to fully claim right now lol but i hope you can see how withholding info can be damning and it could benefit town.  so while voting me is your right, im really hoping you realize the asking for someones name is a super weak reason to vote someone.   ive literally presented actual evidence of imran directly lying and trying to misrepresent what happened....  surely someone lying and trying to manipulate things with misrepresentations has to be more scummy in your eyes than me asking someone their character name lol

I am Captain America, an Avenger Bodyguard.

 

N1: Brewers

N2: Imran

N3: Velocity

 

 

Although one (1) of my outside the box ideas, IRON scum, could still in play.

 

 

while im not sure if the actual reason imran and company killed tony was the conflict... you are right that scum has at least one member from iron- Imran lol

 

 

One thing that can be said, there is not set order for scum kills.

 

If there was they would have had to kill Velocity (vision) first meaning my BD target would have kicked in and I would have died.

Zacch, whom did you protect n2?

 

Imran

 

 

 

correct- scum can pick and chose who they want to kill. no set order they have to kill

unvote

 

Vote: Imran

also scum clearly has a role blocker.  we need to hopefully get them with todays lynch, since they will most likely block zacch, and then kill velocity to get the mind stone.  

 

also zacch is now confirmed town 10000000%

 

pretty sure he copied and pasted from his role pm cause it carried over the hyperlink for his character lol 

also scum clearly has a role blocker.  we need to hopefully get them with todays lynch, since they will most likely block zacch, and then kill velocity to get the mind stone.  

 

also zacch is now confirmed town 10000000%

 

pretty sure he copied and pasted from his role pm cause it carried over the hyperlink for his character lol 

 

u got lucky with your role.  

 

you got America's ass

Ok so where do we stand

 

There are 2 wagons right now.

 

Robert and Imran

 

Where is Preston, Lyner, Isoc and the rest of you?

Ok so where do we stand

 

There are 2 wagons right now.

 

Robert and Imran

 

Where is Preston, Lyner, Isoc and the rest of you?

3 actually lol imran voted for me as well

 

but yeah we need everyone to be active now. 

 

scenerios.  

 

10 players alive

 

If four scum:

 

6 town 4 scum

Mislynch today: 5 town, 4 scum

night kill sucessful:  4-4 scum wins

 

if 3 scum:

7T 3S

mislynch today 6T 3S

NK  5T 3s

Mislynch 4T 3s

NK 3t 3s scum wins

 

So we either have 1 or two mislynchess left depending on the number of scum. 

 

if somehow we are at lylo, scum could rapid fire four votes and out someone with just 1 vote to hammered lynch and win.  so if u see rapid fire voting on someone and youre town and the first vote on that person, it migh be a good idea to unvote on them to prevent a hammer and insta win just in case.  if we still think they are scum you can always re cast your vote later

scenerios.  

 

10 players alive

 

If four scum:

 

6 town 4 scum

Mislynch today: 5 town, 4 scum

night kill sucessful:  4-4 scum wins

 

if 3 scum:

7T 3S

mislynch today 6T 3S

NK  5T 3s

Mislynch 4T 3s

NK 3t 3s scum wins

 

So we either have 1 or two mislynchess left depending on the number of scum. 

 

if somehow we are at lylo, scum could rapid fire four votes and out someone with just 1 vote to hammered lynch and win.  so if u see rapid fire voting on someone and youre town and the first vote on that person, it migh be a good idea to unvote on them to prevent a hammer and insta win just in case.  if we still think they are scum you can always re cast your vote later

 

I got a feeling like there is 4 scum.

 

So this may be our last chance.

 

I think everyone should present a case for why they are not scum.

4 scum usually are in 16 player games. so there could be 4 scum but we are 1 short of the 16.  i think its more likely we have three but def plausible we have 4

i guess its not lylo technically, its MYLO.  a mislynch is a loss.  technically we could no lynch and survive aniother day if there are 4 scum, but i dont like no lynch

Okay apparently the active time for this group is in the middle of the day, and you people have been going at it like crazy since my last post @.@

I'm going to limit the sheer number of multiquotes I pick and respond to some others for brevity trying to track all the back and forth you lot have had. And I say "back and forth" because it feels like there's some personal grudges at play here beyond just game analysis. 

 

We now know Zacch's protection targets (Brewers, Imran, Velocity) and that Velocity watched LWW and saw nothing, which supports theory of a scum roleblocker. With the actual cop dead and velocity known/blockable, I can only assume they'll keep him blind the rest of the game. However if they want to finish getting stones then Zacch will actually give them a problem - they'd have to spend a night kill on Zacch to remove his Bodyguard unless they block him in order to get Velocity. 

 

Which leads me to MK's post that I'll trim for brevity - mingled kill/role information is great, amused you're calling LWW "Lily", but then we have this:

 

I'm curious about what MK posted before the day ended - you DONT believe Velocity's Vision claim with mind stone, even now after everyone did an emergency wagon shift from Velocity to Jazzy yesterday? Brewers/LWW have made a strong point that TW could have given main character Avenger roles as safeclaims, but then heavily backed off of Velocity on the theory that stone roles shouldn't be fakeable - can you elaborate on why you don't think Velocity is who he says he is? This would be a VERY bad thing to get wrong.

I don't believe his claim at all.

Look at his results
N1, no result
N2, Didn't see anything
N3, No result

A bit too convenient for me.
As for vision not countering, well that's one thing. Thus why I'm not voting for him currently.

Killed Tony? Oh really? That's news to me. You going to claim Tracker and supposedly tracked me visiting Tony on any night? Please. Go ahead. Cause if you do, I know you are lying because I never visited Tony. Nor am I a vig. So please. Back up your claim so I jump all over you. How did I kill Tony? Through my mind because I believe he was scum?

There it is, folks.
He got really defensive as predicted.
So you didn't make the kill, your buddy did?
Well regardless you orchested it

 

I won't disagree that Velocity's watcher has provided us relatively little in terms of scumhunting, but if it's confirmed a roleblocker that's at least SOMETHING? ... except as I write this, I have to say that he hasnt CONFIRMED a roleblocker, just stated he's getting No result. 

 

Devils' advocate to satisfy my OCD:

If I assume that per MK Velocity is actually scum and has Vision as a safeclaim - Vision isnt ACTUALLY one of the original 'avengers' - but neither was Dr. Strange. We also didn't expect Star-Lord to have the Reality stone vs The Collector, so TW could be taking some creative liberties here - maybe to prevent the idea that someone claiming a stone role would instantly prove them town? That is also EXACTLY what happened on D3, we all rapidly pivoted from Velocity onto Jazzy as soon as 'Vision' was mentioned. Giving one such role to scum MIGHT make sense, but it still feels a stretch. 

 

And then we have the beginning of MK and Robert going back and forth. MK did say that Robert killed Tony as if it's been proven, which is a big statement - though Robert's reaction is basically a challenge to back it up and delivered not exactly calmly. And then your response is instead saying someone else made the kill? Literally speaking that IS changing your story, but moreover it reinforces that this whole mess between you two feels to be personality/history based instead of game content related. 

 

Somewhat out of order, but next we have Brewers - who overall thus far in the day seems to be going back and forth between Robert and Imran in a similar manner as MK.

Before things get personal, you have some good analysis of your town/scum list to help us narrow down who remains. I kindof blinked a bit at your statement that refusing to take a vote off Velocity is just something Town MK does... I'll just chalk that up to history, since I don't see MK as scum.

 

 

Therefore focusing on these:

 

Robert

Lyner

Imran

Isoc 2

 

 

Robert, ive detailed my susoicsions of him before

 

Lyner:  

 

And Dark Fox, brewers mentioned that he knows you are town, and that for some reason you know that he knows. Can you confirm this?

 

Feels like this could be fishing to get dark fox to give out some info to know if he is a good target for scum or not

 

Isoc 2... yeah someone else needs to jump into him for me, idk who he even replaced...

 

Imran

 

This is no good for us.

An extremely common scum move is commenting on how much a night kill hurt the town, or if a kill is blocked how good that is.  And im thinking that might be the case here

 

Vote imran

 

 

In order:

• At this point in the day Robert is just a continuation of yesterday, which seems predicated on him being early to jump on Kevin and then his OOC dislike of Tony being treated as a reason the scum killed him.
• Lyner merits a listing here for calling out something Brewers said earlier, aside from just his inactivity that had been suspicious enough in itself, though today he is posting. 
• iSoc2... I had him as my #2 suspect yesterday before Velocity claimed; none of that sank in? Not even the part where on D2 and D3 both he picked out LWW as his target? I guess I"ll be the 'someone else' at the end of this post and bring all that up again. 
• Imran - this surprised me a lot when I got to this point. So far Imran's posts have read as fairly even-mannered, and I am failing to see the logical contradiction in what Brewers quoted here - just "This is no good" as the basis for a vote, not taking into account anything else like voting at this point in time? Maybe I"m not up on Scum Tells 101 but this felt like a D1 or D2 rationale.

And of course Imran calls that out immediately:

 

 

An extremely common scum move is commenting on how much a night kill hurt the town, or if a kill is blocked how good that is.  And im thinking that might be the case here

 

 

wow..thats very thin.

 

I am actually very leery of any assumptions you make, because you have led and organized the lynch of tow townies so far. You were also about to lynch Velocity before Velocity claimed stone. I am at the this point wondering your outrage at the death of TM was not all a show or not. If you are scum you have led the town on a merry chase. 

 

And here again a quick jump on the Robert wagon. Lets remember we may be at a LYLO situation as Lyner had commented earlier. But you seem to want to end the day early basing your votes on one line of what I had said.

 

Vote: brewers

 

On one level this is an OMGUS vote. On the other, this does indeed feel 'thin' from Brewers - it matched my reaction when I read these posts. However from here things took a dive off the deep end because Imran said that Brewers has "led and organized the lynch of [two] townies so far". My first thought was that Imran wasnt FULLY wrong - Brewers owns that he STARTED the Kevin wagon, and he remained a forceful voice on D3 if not 'THE' driving voice on his own. 

 

Before that though Imran addressed DF and myself, and that merits a look.

 

 

Terrible play by scum. lilweirdward was a prime suspect after Jazzy was lynched. 

 

I am confused with this comment. lww claimed cop and then said he found zacch to be "not guilty". Are you trying to say you didnt think he was the real cop?

 

 

Given that Jazzy flipped town we can treat his report of Zacch's bodyguard as proven and thus he's likely town, despite his random flailings

 

Dont get this also. lww admitted to being cop and said he found Zacch to be not guilty. He was killed and was confirmed as real cop. What am I missing? Why do you still think he is "likely" town? 

Per later posts DF seemed confused about cop results - but the most basic cop (which LWW was) returns guilty or not guilty. I think what's going on at this point is losing track of the sequence of events at the end of D3, which is crazy enough to read back on:

• Jazzy claimed as Role Cop, which gets results of who has what role. Said that Zacch is Bodyguard and LWW is Cop (normal cop)
• Jazzy gets lynched and flips town, which means his results can be treated as accurate - so at THAT point we knew LWW was a normal cop
• There is no use for scum to have a normal cop unless they are hunting another faction or SK or something, so this means that everybody would have treated LWW as proven town today, and so he would not have been a prime suspect

Imran also nitpicks my post. Per the same rationale as above, we had proof that Zacch is a Bodyguard, but it's not as definitive as a normal cop's Guilty/NotGuilty result. I didn't give the Zacch-as-scum theory much weight because I think it'd be a stretch, but it IS possible. I believe in that same post I openly questioned whether it made sense for scum to have a Bodyguard - given that we've already seen a JoaT, that is at least one killing role to have prospectively defended against. 

 

In the midst here we now have so many quotes from Brewers, and I can't quote those in their entirety because otherwise I might find the limit to how long a post is able to BE. The overarching emphasis looks to be pointing out that he was not first on Jazzy on D3, and thus not the leader against TWO town, just Kevin - and using that as a reason to double down on Imran.

 

In the midst of this though Brewers brings up the idea that Kevin's wagon was 100% town, listing everyone that has since been revealed - with himself and DF on the list and unproven. Obviously everyone assumes their own towniness and per what Lyner is bringing up, Brewers apparently has some proof about DF so he is not questioning there.

 

If we assume Brewers is town and his proof on DF is legit, then the Kevin wagon really WAS all town - however by sheer numbers a part of me calls out the oddity that not a single scum would have gotten in on the wagon early to make sure it happened, especially since it was D2 and Kevin gave such a perfectly awkward claim to rally around. Brewers was very proud of having started the Kevin wagon.

 

If Brewers is scum, he started the wagon early and then let everyone else bandwagon and then feel contrite about it on D3. Devil's advocate for my OCD, Brewers was very strong to dismiss my returning reaction that Kevin's Black Widow claim should have carried weight, wondering aloud why we were talking about this at all. This ironically came back with Velocity's claim on D3. However it's also true that LWW supported Brewers' statement that TW has given main character safeclaims before. I probably wouldnt even be considering Brewers as potential scum without his own logic of claiming the wagon was all town, and without him being one of the last few unproven so we have to start sifting the remaining players. So I could see this going either way, but he's at/near the bottom of my list - or will be once I condense all these thoughts. May require a followup post, this is getting insanely long.

 

 

I disagree. A cop should receive the primary protection. Especially with Jazzy being lynched and turning cop. The stones I agree should be protected, but not at the cost of a cop that can literally confirm town and confirm scum via there actions. It's too powerful. I get the feeling 2 are a theme here. 2 cops.

It's not defensive. It's calling you out MK. Prove I killed Tony. You said I did. I said prove it. But bam. I call it out and now it switches to "it had to be your scum buddy." I guess you don't really have anything. Please. Keep making these statements that you believe are true without evidence.

Then Surprise surprise. Brewers wants to lynch me again. Then lashes out at Imran for not agreeing with him. Let me guess, next he's going to say Imran and me are on a team because we don't follow you Brewers blindly like some people? I understand you think your helping but bad play dosen't = town points for you. You've been on two town lynches. The first was idiotic wagon. The only fair point you have is you didn't start the Jazzy wagon. You got off my wagon(if we want to call it that), when it was clear you hade nothing to lynch me with and your reasoning razor thin as you flip flop vote today.

I have to wonder if Darkfox is the new Lyner with his past statement.

Irman now suspects Brewers and pushes him to vote cause he votes for me? There is other things to go after Brewers for then that. I have to wonder if that's an attempt to get me over to your side with a chance to lynch Brewers.

For as much as Preston talks, you certainly aren't taking a lead on anything. You just seem to passive to me. Are you trying to seem super active with analysing things but not pressing anybody's buttons to stay under the radar?

 

Robert comes back to attack Zacch's choice for protecting Velocity's Stone over LWW's Cop. Both could have been scum targets last night, but the stones could be an instant game over so I can't fault Zacch's choice here. It feels odd Robert wants to be THIS critical however.

 

Robert doubles down on attacking/challenging MK - basically not letting go of MK's initial claim that Robert killed Tony and then changing story - and then calls out Brewers for going back and forth. 

 

And then Robert calls me out for my style. Feels a little like he's covering all the bases here. You're not wrong that I haven't posted since last night, and now I've spent way too long reading and composing THIS mess since you all posted multiple pages during the day This kind of analysis is kindof my thing, and as for not pushing peoples' buttons - Given how much of this game so far seems to be driven by personality and grudges and history, I'm wondering if just not being part of that makes me look like I'm avoiding buttons. 

 

I think this is the most Lyner's had in a single post thus far, and actually lays out a list of people. Good to see more activity, as lurking made him seem more scummy - this also applies to iSoc2 as I'll get to it later. He could still be scum and just putting in a showing today.

 

 

The night kills so far have been a bit bizzare to me. Usually as scums you would try to go for the active/experienced ones first, but scums killed low profile players (iSoc/Tony) on N1 and N2, suggesting that scums are part of the active players or they like to play it safe. However, they still went for a risky target on N3 (LWW the cop), despite the fact that there are bodyguard and watcher in play. I think we have a veteran schemer in the mafia team.

 

Out of those alive, I think these players fit the bill:

- Brewers, classic brewers, can be any. 

- Imran, a bit different play style this time. Feels like laying low so far.

- MK, has been very different from his usual play style so far. The fixation on Velocity is a bit sus.

 

As for their friends:

- Dark Fox, can't get a read since they have been avoiding making a strong opinion so far. Brewers said he can confirm that Dark Fox is town, and Dark Fox knows? that Brewers knows? DF afaik didn't respond so I think at least they aren't scum partners.

- iSoc2, inactive lol

- Preston, has been scum hunting properly. Probably at the bottom of my suspect list.

- Robert2424, has been very grumpy the whole game. No strong read as he plays like usual.

- Velocity, I agree with MK that his results are very sus. The stone thing is interesting, but it might as well be meaningless flavor. Otherwise it's basically innocent child, which is game breaking as we probably still have more stone holders. Unless scum can instant win if they get all stones?

- Zacch, bodyguard. Town confirmed by LWW.

• So shortlist Brewers/Imran/MK for scum as the scum 'lead', and calls out Brewers knowing something about DF again
• iSoc2 gets a blithe pass with "Inactive lol"... why is he just being allowed to skate by unchallenged by seemingly everyone?
• Robert is just 'grumpy' - seems a lot more attack mode today with MK and Brewers, and lashing out at nearly everyone - not playing it quiet at ALL now
• Velocity gets suspicion, which is funny because that MK's thoughts and seemingly nobody else's, and MK is on Lyner's mastermind shortlist. Also some interesting theories about whether the stones are as unquestionable as they appear.

Who knows. You might actually find scum if your not scum yourself eventually Brewers. Even an clock with hands is right twice a day. Just keep throwing shit at the board till it eventually sticks.

If I hade to guess a scum team. Brewers and Preston could be a scum team. He's the only one one who hasn't just went willy nilly with you that you haven't thrown large suspicions at yet.

I don't deny Lyner could be scum with how he's played. He finally showed up today for a change.

Isoc is so quiet who know where he'll land.

Snipped this bit from Robert out of the back and forth between him and Brewers because he calls out the potential for Brewers and I to be a team. Again it may just be that I'm not bringing in history and grudges into this game. He also lashes out some more at Lyner and - surprisingly - iSoc2. If he is just in attack-everyone mode today, I'm not sure if that makes him more town or more scum. As scum he could be trying to land /any/ hit that he can. As town he could just be unafraid to speak his mind and snap back against everyone. 

 

 

I am confused with this comment. lww claimed cop and then said he found zacch to be "not guilty". Are you trying to say you didnt think he was the real cop?

 

I was under the impression that there was only one type of cop. Also I was pretty suspicious of Zacch

Not sure why I multiquoted this anymore, been writing too long. This gets clarified by Brewers too but for completeness - we have had multiple investigative and tracking roles in this game, but every one has been slightly different in what it returns. Normal cops return guilty/not guilty; role cops tell you the role but not guiltiness, which makes you guess scum affiliation based on roles. Watchers like Velocity can watch a person to see who visited them but not what they did. Kevin's voyeur says what happened, but not who did it. Etc. In a Role Madness game like this one, TW appears to have dropped a bunch of potentially conflicting roles and hoped that we would start cross-accusing each other. A JoaT like Tony had is usually a scum role, as is Jazzy's role cop - ways for scum to find people for their kills. It's also critical to have multiple kinds of cops because it's not uncommon for scum to be immune to one kind of investigation or another - immune to normal cop but not to being watched, immune to being watched but normal cop can ID them, etc. 

 

 

To be honest I was torn between who to protect, Velocity confirmed stone carrier and LWW confirmed cop. 

 

Its not like anyone made any suggestions before going into the night and once that happened I couldn't discuss with anyone so I flipped a coin and the outcome was to protect Velocity.

 

This was my list from the end of day 3:

 

1. ISOC (1): Town Doctor

2. KevinH: Town Voyeur

3. Tony: Town Jack of All Trades

4. Velocity: Town Watcher

5. Jazzy: Town Rolecop

6. Zacch: Town Bodygaurd

7. IWW: Town Cop

 

With 3 or 4 of the following people as scum:

 

1. Lord MK

2. Brewers

3. Robert

4. Lyner

5. Imran

6. Preston

7. darkfox

8. Isoc(2)

 

 

What confuses me is Brewers pushing people to name claim on top of just role claiming. What benefit would this be to the town? I can only see it being beneficial for scum.

 

Vote: Brewers

Although one (1) of my outside the box ideas, IRON scum, could still in play.

 

I'm less sure about how is scum now then I was yesterday, but I know my time won't last much longer, I will likely get role block tonight with Velocity being killed and then I will be killed tomorrow night as the last remaining confirmed role.

Zacch comes back and posts/votes critical of Brewers for pushing claims yesterday. 

 

Condensing several posts of conversation for brevity, Brewers explains himself that full claiming would have helped more people previously, and Zacch swaps to join Brewers instead. This underscores both Brewers' persuasive nature that would make this an utter terror if he's really been scum all this time, since he gets Zacch with him so easily. I'm not sure if name claiming Star-Lord would have relayed that LWW had a stone though, without seeing it as part of the role itself - consensus appeared to be that we were thinking The Collector was in the game. It might not have changed Zacch's protection choice though - even if recognized and there were two stones known, it would have been 50/50 to guard the right one.

 

Ok so where do we stand

 

There are 2 wagons right now.

 

Robert and Imran

 

Where is Preston, Lyner, Isoc and the rest of you?

And this is where I started posting You've got this much from me for now. I'm going to get dinner, then will do the second half to post my own list presently. 

Results so far
N1, iSoc 1.0 (doc) killed
velocity (watcher) brewers, no result
Zacch (Bodyguard) brewers
Jazzy (role cop) - zacch - bodyguard
Lily (Cop) on zacch - not guilty
N2, Tony (joat) killed
Velocity (watcher) on Preston, didn't see anything
Lily (cop) on jazzy - not guilty
Jazzy (role cop) on lily (cop)
N3, lily (cop) killed
zacch (bodyguard) protected velocity
Velocity (watcher) on lww - no result
 

I'm curious about what MK posted before the day ended - you DONT believe Velocity's Vision claim with mind stone, even now after everyone did an emergency wagon shift from Velocity to Jazzy yesterday? Brewers/LWW have made a strong point that TW could have given main character Avenger roles as safeclaims, but then heavily backed off of Velocity on the theory that stone roles shouldn't be fakeable - can you elaborate on why you don't think Velocity is who he says he is? This would be a VERY bad thing to get wrong.

I don't believe his claim at all.

Look at his results
N1, no result
N2, Didn't see anything
N3, No result

A bit too convenient for me.
As for vision not countering, well that's one thing. Thus why I'm not voting for him currently.

Killed Tony? Oh really? That's news to me. You going to claim Tracker and supposedly tracked me visiting Tony on any night? Please. Go ahead. Cause if you do, I know you are lying because I never visited Tony. Nor am I a vig. So please. Back up your claim so I jump all over you. How did I kill Tony? Through my mind because I believe he was scum?

There it is, folks.
He got really defensive as predicted.
So you didn't make the kill, your buddy did?
Well regardless you orchested it

 

 

 

Also there's one duplicate multiquote at the end, but when I hit 'preview' it emptied the editing window so I couldnt cut it out x.x I think I was reading/editing for too long, lol. But yeah, back after dinner. 

I haven't had time, but I will post details on why I think brewers is scum and I am pretty confident. Posting this as a placeholder to stop brewers accusing me of ducking. I am not as active as I used to be when I last played mafia.

Also TW, can we get an updated vote count? Otherwise I'll be re-skimming this prior to my next post. 

I haven't had time, but I will post details on why I think brewers is scum and I am pretty confident. Posting this as a placeholder to stop brewers accusing me of ducking. I am not as active as I used to be when I last played mafia.

Good luck because im def not scum lmfao.

 

But hey, you are scum so you have to try something to survive.

 

@preston, on mobile so can’t quote you’re thing about the tells but the scum tell is called look at me im so town, or congratulating the doctor. It’s a very common scum tell for a scum player to make a comment about the night kills- pointing out how bad it is that the cop died or saying good job if a kill is blocked. Anyone who is actually town knows it’s bad the cop died or good the kill was blocked. The only reason to say something like that is to try to highlight how u feel about the results, and make people think u are disappointed the cop died or happy the doctor blocked a kill

Per the wiki on scum tells and scum Hunting:

 

Day 2+ mafia errors

Gloating (any form of "complaining" about how bad the previous night was, how the doctor/cop was killed, etc.) Similar to "congratulating the doctor".

For me what seals the deal on imran being scum is how he has multiple times commented on the outcome of actions:

 

He states the night kicks are weird/strange. Only purpose of a statement like this is to try to make it seem like you don’t understand the kills when in fact you planned them.

 

He comments about the coo being killed. No shit the coo dying is bad. Again the only reason to point out how bad it is would be to try to look like a townie. If you’re actually town you don’t need to point this out.

 

And then sprinkle in the misleading comments he made today about me, how he defends Kevin, when only a scum player would know Kevin was actually town, and then tries to put the focus of our attention on Kevin’s wagon… which if I am town and so is dark fox (hint, we both are) then the wagon was all town… and who would know that? A scum player. Gets them a free lynch and it’s easy to do. Scum didn’t need to join Kevin’s wagon. Kevin fucked up and deserved his lynch. Scum could just sit back and watch. Which is what imran did lol

 

Maybe he will come up with this elaborate story and convince y’all I’m scum, but if he does and there aren’t four scum and we get another day, make sure to lynch him.

 

Even if we lynch imran and get one scum, we will probably lose our watcher tonight. Zacch can just be locked down by the rolebloxker so he won’t be able to stop the scum kills. They can get th mind stone then start hunting for the other players without threat of being watched or blocked by a BG….

 

Watcher and voyer in play… tw did something similar in his iron game once. Had a tracker and motion detector too in that one. If he did that, I’m guessing cum might have a ninja ability we might have to deal with too…

 

Either way night planning can wait. For now, we need to lock down the lynch (hint, imran) and then we can figure out the night phase

I haven't had time, but I will post details on why I think brewers is scum and I am pretty confident. Posting this as a placeholder to stop brewers accusing me of ducking. I am not as active as I used to be when I last played mafia.

One last thing- this feels weird too. Saying he’s going to respond but can’t and just is trying to prevent me from saying he’s ducking… blames RL… look I get it, rl can make things hard for mafia but at the same time, I get vibes of stalling here/ an attempt to buy some time so imran can come up with a lie/story of why I’m scum and he’s town.

 

 

iSoc2 gets a blithe pass with "Inactive lol"... why is he just being allowed to skate by unchallenged by seemingly everyone?

 

 

It's a tough situation, it's easier to dig more by engaging with active players. Which is why I always advocate for lynching the inactives early in the game. I'm all for pressuring him to be more active.

 

 

 

If Velocity is scum why hasn't anyone come out and disputed his name claim.

Mafia side could be given safe name claims

 

need more time to think of Imran

Doing this in steps, but for now have an unofficial vote count

 

Brewersalliance (0): Imran Ehsan

Darkfox (0):

Imran Ehsan (0): 

iSocialism2.0 (0): Brewersalliance, Zacch

Lord MK (0):

Lyner (0):

Preston (0):

Robert2424 (0): Lord MK

Velocity (0):

Zacch (0): 

 

Votes In Order

MK -> Robert

Brewers -> Imran

Brewers -> Robert

Imran -> Brewers

Brewers -> Imran

Zacch -> Brewers

Zacch -> Imran

 

Correct me if I missed anything. 

Is there a scum role where if you investigate them they kill the investigator? 

I like how I come across as "grumpy". I could be seriously grumpy if I wanted to be. I mainly state facts. Going full grumpy maybe I should just vote for Brewers till people wise up and just lynch him. "Dulusions". The argument of somebody who lost exhausted everything he has and lost the argument.

 

Preston again posted allot but no vote?

 

Zacch flips flops more then Brewers now.

 

Lyner standing in the sidelines.

 

Isoc is MIA.

 

DarkFox is being extra cautious.

 

MK and Brewers now being themselves.

 

Imran trying to goat me voting Brewers I think.

 

So therefore. Fuck all you guys and being useless.

 

VOTE ISOC

 

Wakey wakey, participate in the game, no free ride for scum not wanting to participate. I'll go down my list of not committal people worse offenders to greatest. Isoc, then Lyner, to Darkfox, to Preston.

Is there a scum role where if you investigate them they kill the investigator? 

as far as I know. No.

Even at this hour after doing CN update attacks, people are posting! Let's handle these few and get current...

 

@preston, on mobile so can’t quote you’re thing about the tells but the scum tell is called look at me im so town, or congratulating the doctor. It’s a very common scum tell for a scum player to make a comment about the night kills- pointing out how bad it is that the cop died or saying good job if a kill is blocked. Anyone who is actually town knows it’s bad the cop died or good the kill was blocked. The only reason to say something like that is to try to highlight how u feel about the results, and make people think u are disappointed the cop died or happy the doctor blocked a kill

Per the wiki on scum tells and scum Hunting:

Day 2+ mafia errors
Gloating (any form of "complaining" about how bad the previous night was, how the doctor/cop was killed, etc.) Similar to "congratulating the doctor".

This is an interesting concept. I ended up googling "congratulating the doctor" and it took me to JEEP's Tells for Finding Mafia. I can see the logic behind some of it, but it also appears sorta thin and based on the assumption that people generally know what they're doing but also forget themselves?Where is the line between "posting it to act like town by stating the obvious" and "actual town acting like town stating the obvious"? After all my time spent reading and posting today I dont want to go back and review the beginning of every day looking for these tells, so I'll take this category of content with a grain of salt for now and try to focus on more concrete in game actions like votes, activity, and contradictions.

 

For me what seals the deal on imran being scum is how he has multiple times commented on the outcome of actions:

He states the night kicks are weird/strange. Only purpose of a statement like this is to try to make it seem like you don’t understand the kills when in fact you planned them.

He comments about the coo being killed. No shit the coo dying is bad. Again the only reason to point out how bad it is would be to try to look like a townie. If you’re actually town you don’t need to point this out.

And then sprinkle in the misleading comments he made today about me, how he defends Kevin, when only a scum player would know Kevin was actually town, and then tries to put the focus of our attention on Kevin’s wagon… which if I am town and so is dark fox (hint, we both are) then the wagon was all town… and who would know that? A scum player. Gets them a free lynch and it’s easy to do. Scum didn’t need to join Kevin’s wagon. Kevin fucked up and deserved his lynch. Scum could just sit back and watch. Which is what imran did lol

Maybe he will come up with this elaborate story and convince y’all I’m scum, but if he does and there aren’t four scum and we get another day, make sure to lynch him.

Even if we lynch imran and get one scum, we will probably lose our watcher tonight. Zacch can just be locked down by the rolebloxker so he won’t be able to stop the scum kills. They can get th mind stone then start hunting for the other players without threat of being watched or blocked by a BG….

Watcher and voyer in play… tw did something similar in his iron game once. Had a tracker and motion detector too in that one. If he did that, I’m guessing cum might have a ninja ability we might have to deal with too…

Either way night planning can wait. For now, we need to lock down the lynch (hint, imran) and then we can figure out the night phase

I haven't had time, but I will post details on why I think brewers is scum and I am pretty confident. Posting this as a placeholder to stop brewers accusing me of ducking. I am not as active as I used to be when I last played mafia.

One last thing- this feels weird too. Saying he’s going to respond but can’t and just is trying to prevent me from saying he’s ducking… blames RL… look I get it, rl can make things hard for mafia but at the same time, I get vibes of stalling here/ an attempt to buy some time so imran can come up with a lie/story of why I’m scum and he’s town.

 

Much of this second post appears to be doubling down on the same kind of behavioral cues. Maybe this is just next-level play and par for veterans, but I have difficulty putting TOO much stock into it. 

 

I also have trouble understanding why someone defending Kevin was inherently such a scum tell on Day 2. Obviously scum would /know/ he is town and thus be free to proclaim Kevin's innocence to make themselves look good, but beyond the sheer awkwardness of Kevin's claim was also the idea that it made very little sense for him to have preemptively thrown himself out there for no benefit if he were scum. The only rationale - which both he and Brewers acknowledged - was explaining himself /just in case/ he was tracked/watched/etc. But there were no claims forcing him, and no attack line he was pursuing with his claim. While I seem to have been the only one to react to his role name of Black Widow, I don't inherently find it odd that at least SOME people would have erred on the side of "There is no reason for kevin-as-scum to have done this." 

 

I'm also going to net-neutral Imran's last post since I myself have had to post in broken parts today, and Imran has posted enough times today that I don't think he's trying to be inactive or avoid notice. If he has something to say then I'll parse it when he says it, but he only hurts himself by delaying so if you've got some logic to argue your position then get it out here. Granted I probably won't get to read it til tomorrow afternoon again, but such is life. 

 

 

iSoc2 gets a blithe pass with "Inactive lol"... why is he just being allowed to skate by unchallenged by seemingly everyone?

 

It's a tough situation, it's easier to dig more by engaging with active players. Which is why I always advocate for lynching the inactives early in the game. I'm all for pressuring him to be more active.

 

If Velocity is scum why hasn't anyone come out and disputed his name claim.

Mafia side could be given safe name claims

 

need more time to think of Imran

Lyner - I'll cover iSoc2 here more presently, but SERIOUSLY??? "engaging with active players" reads the same to me as "ignoring scum pretending to be inactive"!! One of the main reasons you drew notice was seeming inactivity and trying to avoid attention. The same logic was applied to Jazzy and Velocity in turn when their wagons were being considered. Seem it would be a scum dream to just sit out the discussion entirely with everyone fighting over the ACTIVE players while you coast by unchallenged.

 

Responding to Lyner's response to Zacch - the concept of a safe name claim is that TW gave the scum a name that nobody else has, so that they don't instantly give themselves away when claiming a role. This is a point Brewers and LWW made to me very strongly on D2, that just having a main character name like Black Widow shouldn't be taken as proof. I was skeptical about this at the time, and then on D3 the general consensus shifted to instead say "name claims done mean anything UNLESS it's a stone role which shouldn't be able to be faked." We have yet to see a fake stone name claim (or fake ANY name claim), but just because there is no counter name claim doesn't mean the name is real. It is possible that TW split things up so that scum would have a few choice safe name claims, but there is no way of knowing if "stone names are safe" has exceptions. At THIS point I don't want Velocity to die just to test that theory, despite his lackluster Watcher results that would otherwise be VERY easy for scum to fake - i.e. "I have a role but I never actually saw anything."

 

Is there a scum role where if you investigate them they kill the investigator? 

After a brief search I found references to Weak modifier roles, but that is less something where it's a scum power and more a modifier on the town role that investigates them. If a 'weak' town acts on a scum player, it kills the town. I also saw reference to (ironically) an Avenger bodyguard role that kills the one who kills their target, but I think that would only apply if scum had their own bodyguard and were using it to ward off a vigilante kill - where vigilante is a town role that gets a night kill of their own.

 

I'll ask the obvious question of being curious why you would ask about this, since you've opened the topic? At this point just about all theories and arguments need to come out.

 

Okay - now down to the actual list of those who remain, that are not otherwise proven. 

 

1. Lord MK - likely town, despite continued aggression against Velocity/vision and changing his "robert killed/orchestrated killing of Tony" story

• Voted Velocity early, still maintains doesnt believe Velocity's claim, but despite this he voted for Robert instead of Velocity today
• Brewers saying leaving his 'vote' there is just what Town MK does - I guess that's history, though I dont like considering it
• Included in a post that Robert 'killed Tony' then walked it back by saying it was his buddies after Robert challenged it - story changing inconsistency

2. Brewers - overall neutral, could see as leaderly town or very experienced scum manipulating newer players

• Aggressive/forceful leader that pushes for his target but also clearly experienced. Up til today I didnt even consider him as potential scum, but with about half the game proven I now need to reconsider that he could be scum leading us around
• Started Kevin's wagon on D2, part of wagons on D3 but less a driver
• Pushed for claims on D3 - this is both a pro and a con as it got Velocity to speak up and defend himself, was a bit late to save Jazzy, and it outed LWW/Zacch's roles
• D4 seems more based on behavioral cues than actual content, waffling between Imran and Robert and back again. 
• Unanswered question from clue that Brewers dropped about DF - Lyner has called this out and Brewers attacked Lyner for even asking the question. Brewers is using this as seeming proof that DF is town.
• DF and Brewers were on the Kevin wagon. If both are town then the entire wagon had no scum on it, but per sheer numbers it feels strange that there wouldn't even be ONE scum on there at all. That could actually be the case, but 

3. Robert - neutral, aggressive today, seems to have OOC issues with MK and Brewers that is being used to supplement his 'early on Kevin' status 

• Early/earliest defender of Kevin on D2 - this was taken as a scum tell, though I don't fully see it
• OOC attacks on Tony prior to Tony's death - I don't like considering this as a factor because it would mean he could be throwing the game for the scum based on something personal.
• Voted for Tony with Kevin prior to Tony's death; when Tony was killed this gave appearance of Robert being framed because everything lined up and felt TOO obvious
• Antagonism with Brewers and MK, which broke out into Robert being a LOT more aggressive today
  • Robert attacked/challenged MK for having said Robert "killed Tony", and then MK revised his statement
  • Brewers calling out behavioral posts by Robert today that per the "congratulating the doctor" theory indicate he was scum trying to show fake sympathy/shock/outrage

4. Lyner - leaning scum due to trying to avoid notice and giving iSoc2 a pass

• On Tony wagon with Robert and Kevin on D2
• No vote at end of D3
• Generally inactive until today, flying below radar and seeming distracted/not paying attention or scumhunting. voted iSoc1.0 who had just died, for example.
• Gives iSoc2 a very vague pass as 'inactive lol' - despite that being the definition of someone trying to avoid attention
• Provoking Brewers with an unanswered question that Brewers apparently "dropped a clue" about DF, to the point that Brewers attacked him back. Pending how that question/situation resolves it may affect whether Lyner was actually being observant about something.

5. Imran - neutral, seemed even-tempered and analytical on earlier days but now squabbling with Brewers

• Similar to Brewers I wouldn't have been considering Imran possible scum until I've had to rebuild my suspect list today. It's possible that means he's scum and playing a good game to keep himself from tripping flags
• Got more into an argument with Brewers today, including what is effectively an OMGUS vote right after Brewers voted for him
• Not on Kevin's wagon on D2, on argument Kevin wouldn't be that stupid as scum
• Voted Jazzy on D2 instead of Kevin's Tony wagon based on 'gut feeling' - could be vote spreading
  • Kevin admitted his own Tony wagon was thin at the time, so this is not completely a scum move 
  • Jazzy was doing a "reluctant voting" thing that drew attention and FoS from others as well
• Much of the argument for him today looks based on the same "congratulating the doctor" reading into posts, which I do not fully put stock in.
• Pending when we find an actual scum to start mapping between them this may change, but for the moment I think he isnt the strongest lynch target

 

6. Preston - This is me. Town, as every townie will say is the basis of their analysis

• Trying to focus on what people have actually done in terms of voting/choices made/inconsistency
• Don't have the history/beef with some players in this game so attempting to disregard OOC influences that others are fixated on
• Apparently my post lengths are practically a meme
• Voted/started Zacch on D2 in an attempt to shift wagon to something more solid than Tony (the wagons didnt move/consolidate), and then emergency shift to Jazzy on D3 to save Velocity/Vision

7. darkfox - Questionable, linked to Brewers?

• Overall seems interested in scum hunting but less frequently posting - not that I'm a huge poster either
• Several newer-player questions but actually seems engaged in the game
• On Kevin's D2 wagon with Brewers
  • If Brewers and Df are town, no scum at all on Kevin's wagon - but if by sheer numbers there were SOME scum on the wagon, they could be a self-reinforcing pair together
• Not voting at end of D3
• Biggest unanswered question is whatever is going on between him and Brewers. I missed when this first showed up in the thread, but apparently Lyner caught it and it got a reaction from Brewers. Brewers has been saying DF is 99.9% town, unknown the basis or if it's reciprocated or what. Because it's been repeated so much I think it needs to be explained.

8. Isoc(2) - strong scum feel due to inactivity, isolated D2 wagon, twice singling out LWW for no reason, staying on Velocity after vision claim

• Replaced Bryan who had gone inactive
• Appeared at end of D2 and voted LWW out of nowhere on gut feeling - vote spreading away from all other wagons, no rationale given
• Semi inactive/hiding throughout D3. When I pressed about his D2 LWW vote he repeated that he suspected LWW but it was still gut feeling. 
• Kept vote on Velocity through end of D3 - stayed off Jazzy wagon and/or hoped Velocity/Vision would get lynched anyway? Also questioned in an odd way if Velocity actually had the stone, which drew attention
• With LWW flipping town cop and stone role, this puts iSoc2's earlier no-reason attacks in a different light
• Somehow his inactivity and actions keep getting ignored by EVERYONE it feels like. I am starting to wonder if this is a sign of collaboration
  • Lyner gave him a pass as "inactive lol", which seems farcical in a game like this. 
  • Brewers all but skipped him in his suspect list, acting like he didnt care about iSoc2 and left it to someone else to get into why - despite my prior day posts going into some detail about why :-/ (feels great for my analysis efforts to be noticed/remembered I swear -.-)

 

UPDATED SCUM THEORY LIST

1. iSoc2.0 - Per above he is my first choice. Too much he has done has seemed deliberate to avoid notice, he has been given a pass by Lyner and Brewers both, but I dont think it would be limited to those two if I did a re-read of the rest of the thread. 
    
2. Lyner - similarly inactive and seeming to cover for iSoc2, but with the added unresolved aspect of the question he is posing to Brewers about DF. Something like that needs to shake out, but that failing if iSoc2.0 flips scum then I would be 75% convinced Lyner is as well
    
3. Brewers/DF - For the moment I am treating these two as a unit, because of whatever is going on between them that has had Brewers confidently selling DF as town since D2. Looking for scum options I am considering the potential that they are a self-reinforcing pair, each vouching for the other but nobody independently vetting either. It's also possible Brewers-as-scum is latching onto DF-as-town to prove himself. 
    
4. Imran - While I am mostly neutral about this due to his seeming helpfulness, if the Brewers/DF situation resolves to where both appear town then Imran will be next on the list due to how forcefully Brewers is pushing for him. I cannot ignore the potential that Imran is a skillful scum player who has managed to avoid notice by seeming to be helpful throughout
    
5. Robert - The other wagon today, and the "Too obvious" wagon of D3 before Velocity was nearly lynched. My disinclination to believe all the OOC beef about Tony and between Robert/Brewers/MK has reduced much of his culpability down to being early on Kevin's Tony wagon, but similar to Imran if the Brewers/DF situation resolves then he will move up in the ranking. I'll go back and comb his posts for giving iSoc2 a pass later, but for now it's nearly 4 AM and I'm about to pass out.

 

So with this in mind:

 

Vote: iSoc2.0

 

I think the actual events surrounding iSoc2 are more compelling than the behavioral/OOC beef that are tied up in the Brewers/Robert/Imran wagons, that his selective hiding and caginess about having attacked LWW is an issue, and that testing him will potentially chain/confirm Lyner as scum. It is not hard to imagine iSoc2 got replaced instead of modkilled as Bryan because he is an important scum role that TW could not let just die, and that since then he has been laying low to preserve himself - boosted by the fact that since he is a replacement his early game history/etc got disrupted. 

 

I'll check in with the thread tomorrow afternoon when I get home to see where this has led us!