635 replies to this topic

[lilweirdward]

Reluctant voting is pretty consistent to how I've always played this game. But keep teasing me with those fingers

Well then you've played with a style that is detrimental to the town, and you should knock it off lol.

Does five fingers equal a jazz hand?

Also, Tony doth protest too much, methinks.

Tony has only actually tried like this once, and he was town, so for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Robert2424]

If we are going to be honest with ourselves, most the time I've been voted off has been for shitty reasons with no matter what Role I was or if I was scum or not, or if I said the right things or not. So your not going to Garner sympathy from me. My opinion is my own. I'm not the Mod. If I was things would be different. If you don't like it, tough luck. I realize you think our arguments are weak. Well. Guess what, if find the argument for Kevin's lynch weak. I vote for my reasons

Brewers is actually correct. However unsure if we can about that with the game rules not talking about previous games.

Therefore I can release a who my suspects are currently.

In Order from my strongest suspect to least: Tony, Lilwierdward, Lunar, Zach, MK.

Others I either don't have a good read on or is mad mainly Neutral. I also don't really have any good town reads.

[lilweirdward]

In Order from my strongest suspect to least: Tony, Lilwierdward, Lunar, Zach, MK.

Can you explain why Tony would be your strongest suspect? You haven't given any real reasons for voting him at all except that you think he's a better candidate than Kevin (and also OOC reasons that I don't think are fair). That's fine and a semi-valid reason to vote someone, but it's a big leap to go from "no better candidate available" to "strongest scum suspect" seemingly overnight.

[Lord MK]

Who's lunar?

[Imran Ehsan]

Either Kevin is playing pretty badly as town or he got caught trying to be to smart as scum. I am saying badly because the reasoning for the vote on tm was extremely weak. I kind of get why he rushed to a role claim if he was town, though I don't agree that it was a smart move if he is town. So basically I have been thinking about which one is more possible. Kevin is a really experienced player and I don't really buy that he will get caught so easily as scum. If it was a noob player it would have been understandable. So I am not going to vote for him he should be given another day or two to prove himself.

But I also don't see why tm should be lynched. He hasn't been around for most of this game for no fault of his, and I have no scummy vibes from him from his posts.

So I am just gonna go with my gut on this one and vote for the guy who is acting the most scummy imo

Vote jazz

He made a party on D2 which means he wasn't inactive and then completely went silent after Kevin role claimed, as if he wanted to see his others take his role claim before saying something one way or other. He only showed up after I put out the list of inactives and made one of the scimitar posts I have seen in mafia (I don't t have to mention which). I have some suspicions on some others as well, but I will vote for him now, even though its unlikely that he will get lynched today.

[The Warrior]

Vote Count
 

KevinH (5): Brewersalliance, lilweirward, Darkfox, Zacch, Tony Maurice

Tony Maurice (3): KevinH, Robert2424, Lyner

Brewersalliance (1): Lord MK

Jazzy95 (1): Imran Ehsan

Bryan93 (0):

Darkfox (0):

Imran Ehsan (0):

lilweirdward (0):

Lord MK (0):

Lyner (0):

Preston (0):

Robert2424 (0):

Velocity (0):

Zacch (0):

 

No Lynch (0):

 

Not Voting: Bryan93, Jazzy95, Preston, Velocity

 

With 14 players alive it takes 7 to lynch or 4 at deadline.
Deadline will be at 5:00PM CN Server time on Thursday, August 18th.

[Robert2424]

In Order from my strongest suspect to least: Tony, Lilwierdward, Lunar, Zach, MK.

Can you explain why Tony would be your strongest suspect? You haven't given any real reasons for voting him at all except that you think he's a better candidate than Kevin (and also OOC reasons that I don't think are fair). That's fine and a semi-valid reason to vote someone, but it's a big leap to go from "no better candidate available" to "strongest scum suspect" seemingly overnight.

I think you misunderstand. Scum list is mainly who I find scumny. It's in order to biggest to smallest but how strong those feeling are are entirely different. Tony at the top for a few reasons. Dose not mean other candidates don't share the same reason. The Kevin wagon personally the main thing that stinks in this game. I'm at a firm belief he has too much of a deciding factor role to have been mod killed as well as him on the wagon. Witch is likely a scum role. If it was a town role you could shuffle a weak Townie role to the more powerful townie role for balance. But dosen't work that way for scum.

So your on the list because of the Kevin Wagon. You currently have nothing additional. Not that I'm putting it on a actual point system. +3 for being on the current Kevin wagon or some bullshit. Could TW being overly nice sure. TW is an awesome guy and I don't think anyone would not want him in your corner on any issue but honestly the best way to find out and currently only other option unless a new wagon comes up. I don't really suspect Jazzy at this time and Brewers is either playing smart or isn't scum as I'm still alive. So LWW. If I think the Kevin wagon is bad reasoning, what option do you think I have other then Tony's? Am I missing something critical? Is there a different option I'm not seeing? Kevin put himself purposely in a bad position, with a role that visited who died. So if Kevin is scum, he either 1 lying about his role and actually the one who killed Isoc. Or 2, Mafia used a kill action and a voyerger action on Isoc instead of trying to use to hunt town power roles? Black Widow is one of the main characters and I imagine is in the game. So it's hard to imagine TW left out Black Widow and made her a fake claim. That's like taking out Wonder Woman in a Justice League theme game. So call me crazy or just "Kevin's scum partner". I'm simply not convinced and do what Kevin did to actually hopefully help the town. If a tracker saw me and claimed before I did. I'd probably be fucked. The same situation would apply to any player in this game. If you think keeping quiet is better. By all means. Sharks are in the water looking for any weakness or reason to vote. At the same token, I don't see what other options say you have if you didn't want to vote Tony or Kevin at this current point. So it's moot.

[Preston]

I am finally back online! Sorry for the extended silence, I did give the thread warning and my timetable. A lot has happened today as well, and I've got the perspective of reading it all at once instead of a bit at a time. I'll do a more detailed re-read later tonight, but here's my first impressions from a single pass through Day 2  (apologies if some of this is duplicative, still fresh for me):

 

• Losing the doctor is going to make any future claims very risky; scum got lucky there. Wonder why iSoc out of everyone drew their attention?
• The time stone mechanic sounds interesting - prompts a WHOLE series of questions and theories!
  • Appears like stones are tied to certain named roles - Vision is suggested, who else might have one?
  • Thanos could be a NPC condition that procs if all stones are collected
  • Thanos could be a SK-equivalent - what would that mean? Could they be a JoAT that gets powers depending on stones collected?
    • As a subset of this, there was no second death last night - when I last played SK I was given an even-night mod on my killing. 
    • Also maybe the potential Thanos SK doesn't have a killing power yet - power stone?
    • I'm probably speculating too heavily into this, but this feels really interesting and nobody really talked about it beyond the first few posts
• Mk *immediately* votes for Brewers with little preamble. I was already curious why he'd voted Velocity on D1, that was never really explained. Abrupt start to D2. 
• KevinH's claim was a huge surprise - doubly so because it doesn't really seem to ADD anything at first pass?
• Brewers actually makes a strong point that Kevin may have claimed preemptively to give an excuse for if he was tracked. 
• Zacch REALLY drew my attention for trying to set up another role reveal to confirm Kevin. With the doctor dead this feels like all worlds of a bad idea 
• KevinH acknowledges Brewers' logic that he claimed to explain if he was tracked, as part of his claim explanation. Later elaboration is in the vein of saying he has a weak role and lynched he's not a huge loss
• I don't really follow KevinH's logic for why Tony - feels like a stretch, especially with Imran's point the Velocity -> Tony vote that Kevin uses as a logical basis was so early in D1.
• Robert kinda ties himself to Kevin by supporting Tony and leaving a vote there even after Tony starts posting for himself to show he's got access again
• I really dont know what to say about Lyner's derp voting for the dead iSoc... Imran calls this out as maybe a cover post, but I dont think scum would intentionally be that stupid. He retargets onto Tony afterward as a competing wagon instead of taking the easy out of jumping onto Kevin - curious.
• I had to look up the "Innocent Child" role that MK referenced. It COULD be interesting to get a wagon against him and then get mod-confirmed to turn it around, but that's a bit convoluted and doesnt thematically match the claimed name.
• Jazzy comes back and draws everyone's attention by avoiding voting

Okay - wow. A lot so far alright. We have until Thursday afternoon to make a decision. 

 

After reading the whole day with fresh eyes, the thing that stands out to me the MOST is: why is NOBODY talking about the fact that KevinH claimed BLACK WIDOW of all names???? Seriously people - that is one of the actual Avengers that the game is named after; an INCREDIBLY brazen name for someone to try and fakeclaim! Hell, on Day 1 Kevin added a note that his No-Lynch vote is what the Avengers would do. 

 

Maybe I missed it skimming the thread to catch up, the the closest I see to discussion about KevinH's name was Jazzy's post. Jazzy notes that Voyeur is thematic with Black Widow (It is), but then also goes on to comment that the name could also be fake - which again runs into my point that even TRYING to fake a name that central to the Avengers plot feels like an utterly wild and insane risk that no scum would want to take. 

 

With all of that said as my strong first impresson, let me now consider the other side of the coin.

 

Kevin claiming early felt very strange since it offered so little beyond the name itself. This was one of the first posts of the day so the town hadn't even gotten started on things to talk about yet, and this certainly took the focus off discussing whatever Thanos and the stones implied. Similarly the logic of "prove mod was not killing people" feels like it was a response to Zacch's speculation about a predetermined order of death by mod kill... the idea feels ludicrous for a Mafia game, so why would Kevin have felt the need to refute it?

 

If Kevin is scum and is for some reason using such a central script name for his fakeclaim, I would put high odds that someone else has the *actual* Black Widow role (again one of the titular Avengers) and thus *knows* Kevin is scum. To hard counter Kevin they would have to name claim, which is a very dangerous prospect with the Doctor now dead. However they would go the rest of the game knowing that Kevin outed himself as scum on Day 2 for seemingly no gain other than fooling a tracker that might not have been tracking him in the first place. Also if that person ever died then Kevin would immediately be on the chopping block. 

 

Considering this, I briefly entertained the idea that Kevin is actually a Jester and TRYING to get lynched... but mafiascum wiki says that's a Bastard mod role and it doesnt feel like easy/early out is a way that TW would want this game to play. 

 

So TLDR right now I am of the mindset that Kevin is town, albeit with an extremely awkward claim that painted a huge target on his own back. 

 

We've got 5 votes on Kevin right now. I'd want to say that scum are weighing that wagon down, but due to the awkwardness of Kevin's claim I can't fully blame town for joining them. Per my above statement Brewers made the point about Kevin claiming to explain his role to a tracker before anyone else, and that logic Kevin himself later acknowledged. 

 

Tony is the other wagon that has more than one person right now. Per above I'm not sure I follow Kevin's logic there, even if I think Kevin is town. 

 

The one that has stood out to me the most so far today is Zacch. His proposal to test kevin by baiting another role claim to prove him on D3 was a red flag for me. This comes after his D1 performance that I already thought was notable (i.e. claiming to have been baiting reactions)

 

As a secondary I am also now watching Jazzy: his two-sided discussion of Kevin's role name feels like it's coming from guilty knowledge; i.e. he both talks about voyeur being a fit and then says the name could be fake. Zacch's D1 vote for Jazzy suggests that the two are not aligned, but could have been distancing.

 

As it stands I am more suspicious of Zacch trying to bait a second claim with the doctor dead than Kevin's vote-chain theory that is justifying the Tony wagon, so here's my money where my mouth is. I'd rather test Zacch than Tony at this juncture, while there's still time to swap wagons to what I think is a more promising subject.

 

Vote: Zacch

 

At minimum I encourage more discussion about the nature of Kevin's claimed name and my theory that it's just too obvious/brazen to be fake. I'd rather not be proven right by Kevin flipping town. 

 

[brewersalliance]

Saying because the name is black widow he has to be town is flawed. I’ve used main characters as fake claims for the sole purpose of throwing off the town. And I know TW has done that before too. TW would give the scum a fake claim that is safe so that does not mean if Kevin is scum there is actually a black widow out there. So the whole Kevin has to be town because he wouldn’t make that fake claim doesn’t hold any water and should not even be part of the discussion

FoS on Jazzy: the way he is claiming to play is in no way helpful to the town and it him highlighting it feels like potential cover

Also FoS on Mk: usually one of the most active posters he has said a total of like two words since this whole thing started, feels like he is trying to avoid taking a side. Maybe he doesn’t want to be In the middle of the wagon and would rather drop the hammer to try to say well I wouldn’t hammer my partner etc. idk

[Jazzy95]

Vote jazz He made a party on D2

I don't know what this means so I don't know how to respond

 

watching Jazzy: his two-sided discussion of Kevin's role name feels like it's coming from guilty knowledge; i.e. he both talks about voyeur being a fit and then says the name could be fake

 

This was simply to get ahead of someone responding to me to say a name could be faked, as Brewers basically did right above this comment.

 

I’ve used main characters as fake claims for the sole purpose of throwing off the town.

 

which again runs into my point that even TRYING to fake a name that central to the Avengers plot feels like an utterly wild and insane risk that no scum would want to take. 

 

I think the point Preston is making is that in an Avengers themed game, someone will likely be Black Widow, so Kevin risked someone else role claiming to out him as scum.

[Zacch]

Zacch REALLY drew my attention for trying to set up another role reveal to confirm Kevin. With the doctor dead this feels like all worlds of a bad idea 

 

No malice intent, just being a noob. 

[Preston]

Saying because the name is black widow he has to be town is flawed. I’ve used main characters as fake claims for the sole purpose of throwing off the town. And I know TW has done that before too. TW would give the scum a fake claim that is safe so that does not mean if Kevin is scum there is actually a black widow out there. So the whole Kevin has to be town because he wouldn’t make that fake claim doesn’t hold any water and should not even be part of the discussion

Bolded emphasis mine. Very much news to me - in my memory of games TW ran, he promoted/encouraged speculation about the flavor/lore's effect on the game setup. I'll accept that this creates a way that Kevin's claim could be fake, but it still feels like that'd be a bastard mod thing to do. 

 

 

 

I think the point Preston is making is that in an Avengers themed game, someone will likely be Black Widow, so Kevin risked someone else role claiming to out him as scum.

This is indeed exactly the point I made. Brewers has opened the door for this being less solid than I had thought on my first reading. It would require scum being given an explicit safeclaim for Black Widow - an Avenger main character - to negate the risk that I describe here. 

 

 

 

No malice intent, just being a noob. 

I dont know how to respond to this - claiming noob can be abused to mask missteps regardless of whether the person is scum or not. I'm reluctant to simply take this at face value.

 

Per my prior post it struck me as a huge red flag to suggest we coordinate a test that would involve another roleclaim at this point, now that the doctor is dead. This remains the most notable thing I saw in today's readthrough beyond Kevin's claim, which per above I feel is more likely town than not.

 

I dont think this is enough to shift my vote. Brewers' information makes it possible for Kevin to be false without confirming it to be the case, and Zacch remains more notable to me than the Tony bandwagon.

 

What does everyone else think about this - black widow and the likelihood of it being a scum safeclaim, etc? 

[lilweirdward]

What does everyone else think about this - black widow and the likelihood of it being a scum safeclaim, etc?

TW has definitely done it before. I'm pretty sure he gave me a safe claim in https://ironcentral.org/community/topic/64644-tw-12-agents-of-shield-mafia-hydra-wins'>his last game where I was mafia, but I don't have the role pm anymore to confirm, at least from mobile.

This doesn't mean that Black Widow definitely is a safe claim - I agree that TW likes mixing up his setups and keeping everyone on their toes - but I also don't think it should be dismissed as a very real possibility.

[KevinH]

I totally admit that the vote chain thing is the flimsiest of the flimsy.

But I was trying to do some vote analysis and that's the best I could find.

[Jazzy95]

Vote: KevinH

It just feels very, “oh well” at this point.

[Imran Ehsan]

I don't know what this means so I don't know how to respond

 

I meant he made a "post" on D2..... posting on phone is crap. 

 

Anyway way to bypass my post on you by hanging on a single word. 

[Imran Ehsan]

What does everyone else think about this - black widow and the likelihood of it being a scum safeclaim, etc? 

 

Its possible. I seem to remember a game where scum were given fake names as well, but I dont really remember if they were central characters or not. 

 

Anyway, me not voting kevin is not because of the name claim, I just think it unlikely he will take such a big gamble to go out there and false claim, with apparently no good theory lined up about who the townies should lynch on D2. If he planned the whole thing as scum, I would think he would have planned with his scum buddies to set someone else up for the lynch on D2 as well. Otherwise what was the point of claiming? He is too experienced to make such a half-baked move on D2 with a really flimsy vote on another player. 

[Imran Ehsan]

I'm probably speculating too heavily into this, but this feels really interesting and nobody really talked about it beyond the first few posts

 

Reagrding Thanos and stones thing, I posted regarding this initially. TW specifically mentions Thanos getting a stone after Dr. Strange dies. So it brings up a question on what happens if the scum gets all the 6 stones. He also mentions that Thanos has sent out his lieutenants to find the stones. So I would say Thanos is a Mafia Godfather role with the other scum working for him.

[Tony Maurice]

Look Imran are you posting separate to get your post count up orr? 

[brewersalliance]

You usually don’t do character names without safe claims otherwise it’s not fair to the scum. Everyone could just name claim and the ones who pick someone who are duplicates are scum. Would just break the game so 10000% there are safe claims in this game. And let’s be real, black widow isn’t THAT main of a character… idk why we are focusing on this of all things… it literally is irrelevant and pointless to debate this when we have actual game play to discusss

@tony I’ve done that before, sometimes you get new thoughts after you post. Imrans are separated by like 15-20 min so I don’t think he’s just trying to increase his post count. Plus imran has been thoughtful and not contributing so he really wouldn’t need to inflate his post count.

Mk where are u at? Your silence is weird
Idk why I said “not contributing “ I meant to say not fluff posting and is contributing lol