1065 replies to this topic

[Falzis]

Falzis and Sir Jesus - Do you still think that Carl Vincent is still the most suspicious? What, if anything, has changed your mind.

Junkahoolik, same question.

I already cleared him in my D2 posts. Please review what I have said.

The "Oh so Few" VC

Kaziocore - 1 (angel of doom)
angel of doom - 2 (CanucksDynasty, Falzis)

Not voting - 8 (Falzis, Theophilos, molestargazer, Electric Mango, junkahoolik, Sir Jesus, Kaziocore, Carl Vincent

Edited by Narsis, 01 September 2009 - 11:14 PM.

[junkahoolik]

on a whole, i don't think he's scum. but he is being awfully quiet. lurking even, although he posted his reasons.

the way i see it, martino was lynched cause of the whole advice in the PM thingy. i think it alluded for the scum that he had a power role. so i suspect EM now for trying to cover up this reason in the first post of today.

[junkahoolik]

EBWOP: the way i see it, martino was nk'd......

[CanucksDynasty]

Vote: angel of doom

For voting KevinH with the disproven scenario of a "Weak Doc", voting 5th making it less likely for any unvote to save KevinH (this vote of mine is also applicable to Carl Vincent but I perceive his vote as superfluous). And to catalyze discussion.

@Narsis - Falzis voted for AOD but I didn't see him unvote. Just to make your VC correct.

[CanucksDynasty]

on a whole, i don't think he's scum. but he is being awfully quiet. lurking even, although he posted his reasons.

the way i see it, martino was lynched cause of the whole advice in the PM thingy. i think it alluded for the scum that he had a power role. so i suspect EM now for trying to cover up this reason in the first post of today.

Do you suspect enough to place a vote on him?

[junkahoolik]

Do you suspect enough to place a vote on him?

if i did i'd have put a vote on him. truth is i have more suspicions. but right now i'll keep them to myself. when is the day coming to an end btw??

[CanucksDynasty]

if i did i'd have put a vote on him. truth is i have more suspicions. but right now i'll keep them to myself. when is the day coming to an end btw??

September 8th.

We have only a week left and very little discussions and suspects. Where is everyone???

[angel of doom]

unvote

vote:Carl Vincent

lets get some discussion here

also for those who want a reason, bandwagoning on just about every vote he's made

[Falzis]

I will be away on 5-8 so I can only change my vote until the 4th. Give me new perspectives guys!! Share your suspicions junk. It's not good to keep things to yourself.

[Sir Jesus]

Sorry about such a long time since I've responded in here. I've been running the Stimulus, moving into college, blahh blah blah....

So I've reread the whole thread, and throughout the whole thing I've gotten a really bad feeling about Electric Mango. As soon as KevinH hinted at possibly being a power-role (mage in rage in a cage), EM was the the first to vote for him. I feel like this could have been a move to eliminate a rival power-role that was anti-mafia. Not concrete evidence, but enough to keep my eye on him.

As the game progresses I feel like EM has let several things slip that folks caught onto well. I quote them for significance:

It's ok to change game styles but I think it's not ok to want to appear townie at the expense of your convictions or beliefs of lynching someone. Actually, that is partially the reason why KevinH was lynched by you guys, because he was inconsistent with No Lynch and a harmless Lynch vote, the purpose of which he said was to appease anti-No Lynch crowd. You're doing the same.



I get what you're saying. Everyone wants to reach the end and play a critical/heroic role. But if you're really town, your goal first and foremost should NOT be lynching for the sake of appearing townie but lynching for the sake of killing scum, which would entail a strong conviction despite possible misperceptions.

I feel exactly the same way, I feel like EM's main priority this game is keeping his head low and avoiding problems at personal expense. Definitely not town-friendly.

Re-read the posts.
I firmly believe 2 mafia voted for KevinH. It was their best chance to remove a pro-town power role without using a NK. Cuz a doc may have been able to protect KevinH if he didn't get lynched.

6 people voted for KevinH.

Electric Mango, molestargazer, Martino, Theophilos, angel of doom, Carl Vincent



Out of the list...
EM and AOD stands out the most for me.
EM left his vote on KevinH cuz he didn't want to appear scummy so he could reach the end game.
AOD faulty logic on losing a doc if KevinH was protected which was clarified by several other posts but he still kept his vote on KevinH.



I'll take it with a grain of salt and believe in KevinH insight on this one.

KevinH Townies
Falzis
Sir Jesus

Townies (my gut feeling)
Junkahoolik
mole

Undecided
Theopolis
Carl Vincent
Kaziocore

Who I think are probably scum
Electric Mango
angel of doom

With that...

Vote: angel of doom

I feel almost exactly the same as pronounced here, except I believe the vote should have been placed on EM. Your inital logic matches mine on EM's move to eliminate a possible powerrole. I implore that you reconsider your decision.

Mole and Martino were one of the biggest pushers for Kevin's death. Martino's death scene is proof of his innocence, leaving Mole as the only one left alive who built the case against Kevin. It would seem that Mole would be the next rational choice for suspicion but Mole haven't drawn any suspicion from anyone. I tend to think that Mole is most likely townie since he stuck his neck out but I tend to think a little different from most. If I had lead the charge instead of Mole, I would expect people to start pointing fingers at me.

Is it weird that I tend to give him townie points for sticking his neck out and giving his opinion, but I find it odd that no one else thinks he's suspicious?

More evidence that EM is keeping his head low to avoid fingers being pointed toward him. This is not his usual gameplay, and is inherently anti-town. I also do find it suspicious that you give him townie points for sticking out his neck, since you would have carried out the action yourself were you "townie-point-worthy." However, I strongly believe you are scum.

Falzis and Sir Jesus - Do you still think that Carl Vincent is still the most suspicious? What, if anything, has changed your mind.

Junkahoolik, same question.

My vote was mostly random, and the target mostly of no consequence. I have to assume Falzis was doing the same; trying to get alternative discussion going that was not against KevinH. [proved to be pro-town]

I believe this a distraction question: formulated to bring attention away from the faults found in your logic and make you seem like the friendly town investigator.

With conviction,
Vote: Electric Mango

[molestargazer]

Bloody hell, only a week left?
I figure a good start would be going through everyone's reasonings (or lack thereof) for voting KevinH. People who don't give solid reasonings for their vote are likely to be just jumping on the bandwagon and therefore scummy.

i've had some time to consider the possible outcomes.

1.) we dont lynch kevinH and he turns out to be a power role, he helps us.

2.) we dont lynch KevinH and he turns out to be scum, and if the doc decides to help him the doc will end up dead and we'll be down 3 people before the 2nd day even starts.(lynch, doc, and the mafia target)

3.) we lynch him and he's a power role. doesnt cripple the town but does hurt none the less.

with that in mind

unvote
vote:KevinH

AoD uses a kind of setup-esque reasoning for his vote, saying that not lynching him would hurt us more than lynching him as a possible PR would - his second scenario, however, is very outlandish. it relies on a Weak Doc (Uncommon in games, I find), and the doc protecting KevinH, and the scum killing someone else. The chances of this are pretty low.

After reviewing all the posts that I have missed, I understand now why a no lynch is not helpful. Therefore:

Unvote

Vote: KevinH

I am voting this way because he has the majority of the votes thus far and is most likely the only person able to be lynched.

This is really the textbook definition of a bandwagon vote.
This is where we enter the murky area, once again, of the Newbie Card and how much it can be used. Whilst he may have been busy, I see no reasonings given here, and no real opinions towards whether or not KevinH looks scummy.
Carl Vincent - I understand that during D1 you admitted the bandwagoning. Which is fair. When you placed the vote, did you have a read on KevinH? Did you think he was scummy / pro-town / neither?

Now I don't think Kevin is scum, but I do agree it's better if we all vote and lynch and maybe even catch scum with it! Add to that the possible implications for future reference down the line and yeah ... it's a win-win situation even if we lynch a townie.

@Kevin, your probably not scum, that said ...

Unvote
Vote: KevinH

Says KevinH looks pro-town, then goes ahead with the vote anyway.
I can't give Theo flak for this - since I claimed a gut town on KevinH the post prior to this one (Which I gradually began to ditch as KevinH continued to be absurdly scummy and evasive). At the time, some of believed we were one day 'til lynch, so this is OK in my books.

That wasn't a problem before so why now?

Unvote
Vote: KevinH

This was in response to KevinH saying he was just "trying to get along".
I can understand this vote. It does at least have a reason.

vote KevinH

You're all over the place. You've played mafia long enough to know that it is not about pleasing the other players. Yet, whenever someone even gives the impression that they might like you doing something, you've done it.

Fair enough. Nothin' to see here.

You're right.

Unvote
Vote KevinH

This is in response to Martino claiming EM's strategy was anti-town, so he switches to voting for KevinH. Whilst I'm not against switching strategies, this was the first vote on KevinH - without a reasoning given.
I don't think it can be seen at all as an attempt to start a wagon.
Do I think it's scummy?... No, not particularly.

On a side note,

For some reason I get a good townie feeling from KevinH. I can't really point it out, just my intuition. I feel like lynching him may be a bad move. However, someone needs to get lynched.

Garrr.

...
"Intuition" defence of KevinH could very well be distancing himself from a lynch that he knew would turn up town.

So what do I think? Stay tuned to find out.

[Electric Mango]

I told everyone before the game even started I was going to change my style so I could try to make it to the end. My change of style therefore should not be a surprise for anyone.

My vote on KevinH was random at first and I never changed it because no one else had more evidence against them.

It's funny how I said that there are more people who are scum that did not vote for Kevin that did. Now two people that did not both find me suspicious.

[Theophilos]

unvote

vote:Carl Vincent

lets get some discussion here

also for those who want a reason, bandwagoning on just about every vote he's made

So just to start playing again, before I start re-reading that is ...

Per above post, Carl V. could you explain your supposed bandwagoning and/or offer more towards explaining you reasons for your voting!?

[CanucksDynasty]

And it's quiet again.

@SJ - your post is compelling. I may reconsider to change my vote from AOD to EM but I will leave it on AOD for now.

[Falzis]

I shall be away for the weekend and a day probably, I have a tournament to attend to.

[junkahoolik]

i actually believe that anyone who didn't vote for Kevin is scummy... well after the whole "my role doesn't matter so i won't roleclaim" business at least... and falzis, i'll write a long post as soon as i'll take a pencil and piece of paper in my hand and start rereading everything... that should be in 8-9 hours i hope... if the rl drama queen won't put it's paws on me again that is... :flail:

[junkahoolik]

well, i'll take all that "i think CV is inno" stuff and put it in the trash from now. at first he tried to be defensive and and not kill anyone d1. but as soon as he saw that that route is open for business, he went straight for it, hopping on the biggest wagon. so he actually looks like a newbie scum in my eyes.

vote: Carl Vincent for the above reasons and for lurking afterward.

i find post 67 i think (hope i noted everything right) most conclusive to this.

[junkahoolik]

next on the list that i don't trust from now on:

Falzis


let's begin: post 82: he defends kazio with weak reasons after he voted mole "just because" after mole voted for kazio.

112: he's appearing to try to get more people to vote for Kevin without committing. next he tries to defend him...

173: i got the impression while reading this post that he FOSed everyone who made a case against him... OMGus??

174: plants seeds of mistrust in Kevin's possible roleclaim.

182: he wants to vote but he won't commit yet. huh??

183: i give him townie points for this one though: he thinks for 5 minutes of game strategies.



on D2, he seems to try to give people more options for the lynch without committing again.




that's mostly it for now about him. will post more a bit later.

[Kaziocore]

oh just noticed that CV hasn't posted anything on d2

[Falzis]

I've only voted three times. One random for junk, one semi-random semi-serious for mole, and one serious for Carl Vincent. He hasn't posted since my vote yes? He's inactive and I'm not liking that as we've seen how inactivity only hurts the game for everyone.

And we've only played like 3-4 mafia games. And each game had a different twist (like the Texas shootout) so I don't think you can generalize my meta during D1, which I'm assuming you've generalized from the previous one (because of my singular determination for sojourner or KevinH).

FOS: Electric Mango for grave misrepresentation (saying I've voted for 1/2 the people here is a big big misrep)

---

Ok so Kevin has roleclaimed defacto. I'm not sure as to the soundness or the viability of this strategy since it would rely on a Doc role always protecting him. And that's assuming he is a pro-town power role and not a scum power role (which would kill the Doc right? like in mole's game?)

But assuming Kevin is a pro-town power role, we can safely assume he is not a Doc or a protector type since he basically relying on protection from nightkills now that he has hinted he is a power role.

---

Still reading the whole thread...

How is this an FOS of everyone? It's only an FOS of EM for misrepping me.

As for commitment, KevinH looked scummy but I had doubts. That's why I couldn't commit because even though he looked scummy I felt he was town.