Aquinas

I think SinKon is a good lynch candidate, but something about it just doesn't feel right. His actions could be interpreted as scummy. I understand why hes our best candidate but, it doesn't feel like he is scum. Anyone share in that sentiment? Also, I'm impressed with Martino's retort so I'll have to see more on that from either Electric Mango or Sir Jesus. As for suspicions and accusations, I'm fresh out. At this point I think my vote on SinKon is out best option only because I'm really not getting scum vibes from anyone else. I'll be paying close attention to any commentary between Electric Mango and Martino, I think they'll be getting at some useful information if they keep up their dialogue.

MOD: If the day ends with an inactive player are they allowed to camp without being randomly assigned to a room? They are, after all, inactive so I want to make sure of the scenario in that case before we assume a random placement is the case. No. Anyone who doesnt choose a room will be randomly assigned.

Hey, if you're innocent make me believe it. In my first mafia game on these forums we all had one bullet to kill anyone we wanted. I threatened someone and they turned around and killed me outright. It was funny but, you're lucky to have the luxury of people actually voting to kill you. Plus, you have 3ish votes on you now? Its more than that to get a majority. Convince everyone else but, please do not withdraw!

MOD: Could we get a vote count now that we have some votes in here instead of waiting until the top of page 21? I don't think we're anywhere near a lynch but, just in case I've overlooked a vote and to see who has or has not voted it would be very beneficial. VOTE COUNT SinKon (4): Sir Jesus, CanucksDynasty, Electric Mango, Aquinas KevinH (1): Firkked Sir Jesus (1): SinKon crazyemolad (1): Kaziocore Not Voting (6): Narsis, Junkahoolik, KevinH, crazyemolad, Falzis, Martino

Alright, I'll get on board with this. I think SinKon is the best candidate to be scum. I've had an FOS on him now, and seeing that we're actually getting down to voting I might as well put the hammer down. In addition to the reasons I FOSd him for and the reasons other players have voted for him my specific reason is that he continues to promulgate strategies that do not benefit the town. We're talking about more than the general lynch/no-lynch debate. Unlike in other games, with the advantage of rooms here we can show that it is undoubtablely the best strategy to go for the lynch here. With that: Vote: SinKon

EBWOP FOS: SinKon VOTE COUNT KevinH (1): Firkked Sir Jesus (1): CanucksDynasty crazyemolad (1): Kaziocore SinKon (1): Sir Jesus No Lynch (1): SinKon Not Voting (8): Narsis, Junkahoolik, Electric Mango, KevinH, crazyemolad, Falzis, Aquinas, Martino

I don't have any suspicions to speak of yet. A suspicions being someone I suspect to be scum. However, I don't much trust Sinkon being mindful of Sir Jesus' prior post to this (which is to long to justify a quote, just scroll up) and I don't necessarily suspect him to be scum just yet however. I believe him to be actively working to forward a strategy just like everyone else. Although he may be misguided and statements like "I'd lynch a townie anyway" deeply concern me. At this point: FOS: SinKon This is where my vote would go if I was forced into a vote at this time (thankfully we aren't). Furthermore, if it comes down to a decision between SinKon, Sir Jesus (and KevinH, has there been some implication of him as well?) and there is no further development besides a similar back and forth, I'd be voting SinKon to be lynched.

Yeah, reading that again I realize that I am tired of it. I don't find it fun to do all this number crunching at all. Theoretically, I still think we'd find the best advantage using the Hybrid Method I asserted earlier (for the same reasons). Gaining as much information as possible to make the most educated lynch vote I can is my priority. If we use the full list method which seems to be the case at the moment, thats fine I suppose. Its better than random assignments anyway. I think we've thrown this discussion around as much as is necessary. Can we finalize a strategy and implement it at this point?

Right, lynching today is necessary. We need that information. If we are going to officially go with the list strategy instead of anything else, that information is even more valuable because gaining information is not a benefit of that strategy in my opinion. However, I agree with Falzis when he says we've exhausted that discussion already. I haven't had much more to say on the subject, my position hasn't changed. I'm going to go back and skim through the last few pages again now, but I think we need to close that up and move on.

Narsis is up first for picking a room. I suppose you can do that whenever you are comfortable kicking us off. @Electric Mango: Seeing as you're becoming our non-mod resident list maker, would you mind being in charge of keeping record of who has picked what room and our order going? If not I'd do it although I can't guarantee any timeliness. Otherwise CannucksDynasty would also be a good record keeper in my opinion. Do people think we should choose room assignments and then start thinking about who to lynch? If we've got that info before those debates really open we'd have even more info to work with. I'm sure we've all thought about possible scum targets but, if we silence the majority of that debate until after we get room assignments in we'd have a better shot at nabbing a scum on D1. Sounds smart to me. What do people think of this?

I'm right with the both of you on this point.

EBWOP Of course, I like this too. What do other people think? If we are okay counting it an option (and I don't see why not since I'm not the only loon that thinks this is a good idea ) No longer ANTI LIST PRO HYBRID Thanks for the support Falzis.

Of course, I like this too. What do other people think? No longer ANTI LIST PRO HYBRID Thanks for the support Falzis.

The Hybrid Plan: The plan is that we would follow the sign up list in order and in that order choose our room order. The first four people would be forced to pick the four separate rooms. Then the fifth person would pick a room to double up in and the next three would follow suit and not until the ninth person would pick to be the third person in the room. I think this would be the best strategy because it would allow us the rigid scum control of the list and the ability to extrapolate from peoples room selection. At this point we have 3 PRO LIST and 1 ANTI LIST votes. I'll cast my vote with the ANTI LIST team for now. The anti list choice is a risk, that I grant you but, I don't see how we can expect to gain nearly as much information from assignments off a list. That said, I think we can dramatically reduce that risk by using the Hybrid Plan. I'm going to vote ANTI LIST because we need to chose but, I am stating right now that I think a random choice strategy does not help the town. We need to have an order to the votes to prevent a scum take over. The best way to do that I can see is to use the sign up sheet. I think the lesser of two evils is choosing because although the scum will get an edge in being fast acting if its random, we need the information that only assignments without a list can provide. Concurring opinion for ANTI LIST. I'd still like some more feedback on using the aforementioned plan.

As far as a couple FOSs in my direction, I don't lend much credence. I threw out a strategy to get people talking and ignite discussion. As you can see from the shortness and qucikness of the post it wasn't considered much beyond surface examination of the strategy. I am glad we've come up with better plans. If anyone is convinced I'm scum from that behavior there isn't much I can do. As to being quiet, I'm sorry. I've been keeping busy but, I get on when I can. Anyway, I think the essence of my last post was that I wanted to do a choice strategy over room decisions. I think it lends more information to the town. Sure, with a list we might thwart a scum or maybe two but, we're not as close to catching them as we could have been if we would have had their motivations. Furthermore, if we end up with three people in a room we're looking at two targets. If only one of those is scum it'd be way easier to identify the scum from those two if we had ascertained intentions prior to the night kill. The list in my previous post served a purpose to organize things. If we choose rooms in a predetermined order we still retain some of the scum damage control that a total list strategy offers. I think randomness favors the scum over the town. If we can control the order in which we pick we limit scum viability for room decisions and influence over how the randomness is carried out. We could go down the list today and up the list tomorrow. That would give us even a greater advantage because we could still get some overlap which would get is closer to identifying scum and some polarity where if we see less actions than we think were possible we can target those rooms. As far as lynching today goes, I am for it. We're looking for information and we're not going to get it from not acting. As a townie I am fully aware that all the power in my role comes from using my lynch vote. We need to get those scum. If we're not acting we're limiting our chances to lynch the scum. Its our only innate offensive ability. We might lynch a townie on day one, sure but, that gives us a better chance to get a scum on day two. Remember, Electric Mango's cases were worst case scenarios. We could do a lot better at getting scum from vote counts and room positions than day four. I think that is actually pretty likely. If we think about how the scum will be night killing they are going to be very aware of what rooms they are killing in. We can use the information from why a room with a night kill was used in was picked by the people using that room in conjunction with voting patterns (especially by day three and beyond) we're looking at a lot of information to find scum and rule out the scuminess of townies. I'd say these two choices work together for getting townies information than the conjunction of any other two strategies. I am again entering my list/choice hybrid here. I'd like to get some feedback on it as well. If we can control the choice but, also demand reasoning on votes I think the town is in a good position. Again, I'll being staying as active as I can. I read everything as it happens so if we encounter some dire situation I'll do my best to reroute my schedule.

You guys are burning this thread up. Sorry I couldn't keep up. I follow on my phone but I am tied down pretty regularly between class and work so you have to excuse my interjections rather than continuing discussion. For my two cents anyway, I think we should make a list/picking hybrid. I think it would give us more information. Remembering: Therefore when a night action is carried out we can look at who was assigned to specific rooms and why they deviated etc. Furthermore: We can see where people choose to move no matter what. All moves that are not night kill related get posted in thread. So we have a master list of where everyone was supposed to be and if we see them resting somewhere else over night we can allege that its doubtful anyone was stupid enough to not copy and paste their room assignment from our master list. If we can look at an individual basis of people deviating from the plan we are in good shape. If we have people choosing their own rooms I would say it gives the mafia a greater advantage to get themselves into the room they would like. If we have people pick we allow for the first four people to pick one of four rooms without replacement. Those choices are pretty arbitrary considering we do not yet know the benefits of each room. Then we have people stacking. Who decides the order we choose to pick our rooms is? If we go by the signup list we can target what the options were of the person who selected the room that the night action took place in. For example if 1. Narsis 2. Junkahoolik 3. Electric Mango 4. KevinH pick our four rooms in that order and we find that there is a night kill on Electric Mango we know that one of the other two people in his room are scum. However, we also know that the scum that picked that room had a better reason to pick that room than the others. So, we can say that if in the second room drafting round Sir Jesus moved to Electric Mango's room we can conclude that the other rooms may have been filled with other scum known to Sir Jesus. If someone is in the situation multiple nights, (especially if we have a similar map of the island) we can speculate why they may not be targeting a certain individual. If we continue down the sign up list (manifest-for flavor?) each night it might help us to use process of elimination on the scum targets. Also, I wonder how night kills will be delegated by the scum. I've never been scum so I might have the mechanics wrong here but don't "vanilla scum" come to a consensus about who they are going to kill and that must be sent to the moderator. So if we know that the scum can only carry about an action in a room they are in that night could they kill in any number of rooms that they are located in because they made the decision together? Would they all have to be in the same room? Or, can we assume their is a Godfather role that commits the night kill in a room he is in. As far as a lynch goes I don't think we need worry about that just yet. I don't think anyone has given a serious enough rational to be voted for. (Obviously Electric Mango disagrees with me - ) I think it would be more appropriate to draft a solid plan, one that we all can agree to and then target dissenters of that plan etc. etc. etc. It seems we might have enough numbers to get away with a no lynch on D1 and then not regret it later in the game when we needed one more turn to lynch a known scum. Thats WIFOM obviously - what if we had lynched an extra townie on D1 etc. etc. etc. Anyway, that is where I stand for now. I'll be on as often as I have significant information to relate. I doubt i'll be getting into as much back and forth as you all seem to have thus far however. P.S. If you all find that to be considerably impossible to follow, let me know and i'll get to rephrasing. I changed my mind about something half way through so, I'll fix any inconsistencies I missed if they are seriously detracting from your understanding of my point.

I think we should make an effort to spread out as much as possible each night. If we are grouped we would loose information on zones and diverse benefits and possibly suffer extra losses if the scum occupy those zones (implied that if there are benefits their are also very likely penalties). I would say we spread out and discover as much as we can on night one about each zone and then adjust for proper benefits (penalties?) on night two and so forth.

I don't think you have any real grounds to threaten me here. I've voted for a self aligned power role controlled by the non-town summoner every time. I've missed one lynch on Crazyemolad where his voting record did indeed indicate him to be the summoner. I have barely accused you in the entire game and at times come to your defense. Although, at this time I am out of fresh ideas. You've been a concern the entire game however. I am not pushing hard for your neck at all. I am simply working with those who I believe to be townie to find the summoner. They joined with me to lynch Crazyemolad, now I'll be party to CannucksDynasty's hunch and vote for you. I think it is as good of a shot as any. Especially sense he has been on you the whole game. If he was non-town looking to lynch townies he would have been able to rally for an extra vote here or there and lynch them instead of hunting you the whole game. I'm still suspicious about both CannucksDynasty and Junkahoolik though. I suppose that doesn't matter if you turn out to be the good wizard though and I lose because I helped lynch my own summoner... However, my win condition seems to imply that a win for me (and thus the town) does not require the summoner to be alive at the end of the game. So, I'll take a chance here. If we lynch you and you are town that would leave myself and Sir Jesus as townies and CannucksDynasty and Junkahoolik as scum candidates. Junkahoolik doesn't say much anymore. I wonder if he is just sitting back waiting for the town to crumble upon itself. My foresight (as near sighted as it may be) tells me that if we kill you Junkahoolik would probably go next. If he turns out to be scum that leaves myself, CannucksDynasty and SirJesus Between me and CannucksDynasty then (who would be forced to vote against each other) I would hope that SirJesus would side with me sighting my voting record against non-townie personal as much as possible. So, my vote on you stays.

Alright well, call me a flip flopper if you want. Maybe I am. I'm not surprised anymore to hear scum feeling threatened to start to make really long winded speeches in their defense. I'm not saying its scummy to write a long post but, it just seems like the norm. Also, CannucksDynasty has been good to me the whole game and I owe him one for backing me up on Crazyemolad. Sir Jesus, I owe you too. You also switched over to who I thought the summoner was. Now, I'd like to return the favor. Unvote Vote: Falzis

Count me in please!

Post 1000 for good measure!

oops...edit thinking with OUR guts.

I'm right there with you. My logical conclusion is out the door and at this point it seems like we are all thinking with out guts. In that case... Vote: CanucksDynasty

I don't get it. Why am I the only one critical of Crazyemolad? He is the only one who did not vote for a single self aligned power role. If you consider Falzis to be the sage he is up to two votes on pro town power roles. Even if you don't consider him to be pro town, he did not vote for a confirmed self aligned on the same day. This is clear non-town behavior and no one is even throwing him the mix. For my money, I'll bet on him over your gut feelings about Falzis any day. Until someone comes up with some solid evidence to indict Falzis...(even Junkahoolik for that matter, although that would be a harder case to make in my opinion.) Vote:Crazyemolad

I see. Thanks.