The Warrior

We're potentially in a LYLO situation depending on the number of remaining scum factions. If you have something to share that can help fill in some of the puzzle we should probably consider it.

It looks like Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince will likely be my next game. I'm looking forward to the last couple games in this series.

It’s not up to you to tell me what I “need”. I’m doing my due diligence to help put the town in the best position possible to win the game. In a game with few power roles and little chance to get actual evidence, questioning people and analyzing their response is our best weapon. Surely you understand.

Tony, you provide no additional context when you post. I’m pushing you because mafia is a game where you oftentimes need context or additional explanation for actions taken so you can effectively judge a player’s actions. You explained that ending the day early yesterday benefited the town more than the scum. I was questioning you to get an explanation for how you believed that was the case. All you then said was “It doesn’t”. So you backtracked without providing any reason for it, hence my additional follow up question.

How does ending the day early hurt the scum more than the town? it doesn't. Then why did you say it? How does ending the day early hurt the scum more than the town?You know, tw. You did suggest the forced voting Yet you haven't voted yet. Any reason why? The day just started. Deadline isn't until the 29th and if you go back and look at my play style I almost never vote until the last two days of a game day.

Did some people know what was going to happen? I was online all the way up until deadline yesterday and posted right at the very end of the day that I wasn't comfortable voting considering the arguments against both Tony and Finster. Tony voted for Finster because he got roleblocked on the night he tried to visit him and based on an interpretation of flavor text that he thought would mean Finster was a strongman. That is too flimsy for me to base a vote on. You, yourself, even claimed that you believed Finster was Vanilla (but could be a Goon) and yet you did not change your vote or give any alternate reason for your vote after you followed that original strongman accusation. What was your actual reason for voting for him? On the other hand, Finster apparently voted for Tony because Tony pushed for him to be lynched with no other information than he was role blocked. Also, too flimsy for me to base a vote on. At the very end of the day my vote wouldn't have mattered anyway. After Kevin voted Finster had enough votes to be lynched at deadline and Tony was only at 3. And even if I thought Tony was more scummy voting for him at the end of the day wouldn't have changed the outcome either. It only would have given him 4 votes and Finster still would have been lynched. Now, an interesting thing to note was that Finster had 5 votes at the end of the day but with only 4 people voting for him: So we were right that there was still vote manipulation going on here somewhere. Can anyone explain that? As for my role: I am Sansa Stark. I began the game as a town FBI Agent. My character name was interesting to me when we started to see Lannister aligned characters end up as town because Sansa is obviously no Lannister fan.. However, as I started researching Sansa’s involvement in “Feast for Crows” I saw that she was off in the Vale and not really working against the Lannister’s in the south at that time. This is why I was very specific when I said that I believed scum would be characters who were directly opposed to the Lannister’s in Feast for Crows (I.e. the Martells and the Faith Militant) when I was discussing character alignment. Of course my character theory ended up proving false anyway when kevin1.0 died as a Martell. I didn't outright role claim because it was still early in the game and I didn't have any information for the town yet but I tried to drop hints about it on the day that ABT was accusing me of killing MK: In response to ABT accusing me of being a SK: And this is further arguing against ABT's accusation of me as a SK. You'll notice it isn't my normal post style. Here's why: -On night 0, I investigated Canik and was told “Not a serial killer”. -On night 1, I investigated KevinH1.0 and was told “Not a serial killer.” -On night 2, I also investigated MK and received “No Result”. This is obviously the night ABT accused me of killing MK which we now know Torres actually did. -On night 3, I investigated Finster and was told “Not a serial killer”. And then something interesting happened. Right before the start of day 4 I received a separate message telling me that my role had changed. I was no longer a town FBI Agent but became a town Jack-of-all-Trades. I’m not sure what caused it but we’ve seen so many other crazy things happen that I’m just chalking it up to “Brewers”. On night 4, I investigated Finster again, this time with a JOAT Role Cop ability, because he managed to survive the lynch and I thought I could find out his role and verify or dispute his role claim but I must have been role blocked or something because I received “No Result”. I’m assuming that I was actually role blocked not only because of the no result but also because it sounds like Torres and Dontavian both got results so he wasn’t jailed or anything. I still have a couple JOAT abilities left to choose from but I’m not going to disclose them ahead of time and make the remaining scum’s decisions any easier tonight. That brings us to what’s left: - Dontavian: Claimed Cop, Has several “Not mafia” results. - Finster: Claimed VT, has investigated as “Not mafia” to a cop, “Not a Serial Killer” to an FBI Agent, and was told to be Town to Torres apparently. - Kevin2.0: No claimed role at this time. Confirmed town by the mod. - Lyner: No claimed role at this time. Claims to have circumstantial evidence that I'm town though. - Rafay: No claimed role at this time. Investigated as “Not Mafia” to a Cop. - Torres: Claimed Vig, Alignment not verified by additional source, Killed MK, Killed Velocity (claims it was redirected or misfired). - TW (me): Claimed JOAT, Confirmed as not being mafia by Cop, Lyner says he has circumstantial evidence that I'm likely town. Even though there are several players remaining whose roles are unknown, there are only two players left with no alignment verification of any kind: Lyner and Torres. We had three deaths last night. Two of which it seems might have killed one another - STP (mafia) and WP (Town) if the flavor text reflects accurate information. Torres tried to shoot Finster and was unsuccessful so that leaves one currently unexplained death.

How does ending the day early hurt the scum more than the town?

How do you figure that? The scum kill at night. Ending the day early doesn’t affect them negatively in any way.

This sounds reasonable to me. And as suggested yesterday I think we need to “force” everyone to vote for someone today and maybe even give some sort of actual reason for their vote. Granted, the reasoning will be highly limited and may just be gut feeling but that will at least give us more to analyze than just “Vote: Player X”.

All, There are still several games going on and a couple more in the queue but I’m going to get into the queue again now as well with my next two games. For the next two I will be picking back up where we left off in the Harry Potter series with Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince and starting a new series of Avengers games. I’d like for you to vote for which theme you’d like me to run first: Harry Potter or The Avengers. Please vote.

I had never seen an Elite Bodyguard used before but that seems to fit.

After going back and reading the flavor text it seems like Dontavian is probably right. The skirmish is between STP and Wolfpacks and according to the text they kill each other. If that is what happened it’s clear that Wolfpacks was not a standard Bodyguard. Maybe he had some sort of Vengeful/Supersaint modifier that was applied to anyone who killed him at night.

There were 3 kills. I assume you can account for one of them since you have a killing role and we’re running out of players. Is that an unreasonable assumption to make?

This has been a strange game. We’ve seen vote manipulation, lynches fail, multiple night kills, role changes, and a ton of wasted time. I had a feeling one of our quiet players was scum. Good job whoever shot STP. How in the world were there 3 kills last night though? It couldn’t have been Torres didn’t since Brewers would’ve told us. @Torres - Who did you shoot? @Dontavian - Did you get a night result?

Vote: Lord MK Let’s see if it was a lie.

I have to admit that I haven't been following this game very closely recently. As I understand it Lord MK claims that Rafay "has a gun" and Rafay claims that he has no idea what MK is talking about. Is that right? If so, one of them is definitely lying. However, the gun being referred to could be a cop or something and not necessarily indicative of scum. @MK - How do you suppose you were informed of Rafay's gun if you're a Bodyguard?

I took some more time to think about it but I still don't have a strong feeling one way or another. I think the case against Finster is weak honestly. Finster has claimed he is a VT and no one has damning evidence to the contrary. It's a convenient claim to make to try and save himself but he also made the claim not having any knowledge whether or not any other roles had visited him at any point which would be incredibly risky if he wasn't actually vanilla. The result Tony received when he blocked Finster doesn't make sense to me. A roleblocker would not (or at least should not) have received a result that gave any indication as to Finster's role. If Tony roleblocked a Vanilla player there wouldn't have been any result returned to him since no action would have been taken. So either Tony is reading too much into the flavor text or something else occurred that obscured his result. I am not comfortable with voting for either at this point and will abstain as well.

Nothing further than the strong feeling that it was 4 townies that lynched a mafia: Vote: Finster Baby Maybe or someone could have been from a competing scum faction. I don’t know what to do. I still don’t have a strong feeling one way or the other at this point and deadline is in ~7 hours. I’m going to sleep on it and try to vote before deadline.

@Kevin - You aren’t currently voting either. Do you have any further thoughts about Tony and Finster?

We have a little over 12 hours until deadline and it’s basically down to Finster or Tony for today barring some other major reveal here at the end of the day. I’m torn on what to do. I don’t necessarily think that Tony’s result from the night he claims he visited Finster means what he thinks it means. I don’t believe a roleblocker would be given that kind of information if it actually meant what Tony thinks. At least I wouldn’t have given him any sort of result like that as a mod. If that’s the only reason we have to lynch Finster, it’s not great in my opinion. On the other hand it doesn’t appear that anyone has information that can confirm Finster’s alignment yet while Ferastical seems to have at least confirmed he was roleblocked. What remains to be seen however is if it was actually Tony that did it and if it was him we don’t know his alignment. While the majority of the last several days have been focused on Finster and Tony I’m also worried about the people who haven’t really weighed in on this and have been pretty quiet. I’d really like to hear more thoughts from STP, Wolfpacks, and Dontavian since you are the others who haven’t voted yet (other than Rafay who isn’t sure if he’s going to vote). Do you have any thoughts about what’s going on?

Makes sense to me. Everyone good with that? It’s not the fact that you voted no lynch that I have a problem with. It’s how and when you did it that I take exception with.

It isn’t a waste. We still have until Kevin locks the game thread at least. Since this day is ending in a no lynch what do we want to do tomorrow. @ABT - you’ve asked that question a lot of the no lynchers. What do you suggest now that it’s happening?

Town should certainly know better than to allow a vote count to get to L-1 with so many days left. Honestly though, I don't even care if every single person here just sat around with their thumb in their ass for the next 4 days. Intentionally ending a day this far in advance is reckless. We were still debating possible strategy. Don't you agree that doing that is at least a better idea than wasting that time and allowing the scum to act before we've made up our minds about anything?

Tony, Why?

I know you back tracked on this but I still don't understand why you're so comfortable saying things like this? Do you even care if the names you offer up turn out to be town? But on D2 youll have no information like on D1, so lynch will be as random as on D2. So why you believe lynch on D2 is better than D1 lynch ? As ive already written: D1 no lynch D2 lynch gives us 4 lynch opportunities and if we miss all we lose on D6. D1 and D2 nolynch gives us one more day and 4 lynch opportunities: if we miss all we lose D7 D1 and D2 lynch gives us 5 lynch opportunities and if we miss all we lose D6 D1 no lynch D2 lynch is literally the worse option we can take. Then we either go with: 1) D1 and D2 no lynch. Give our JOAT's two nights to hopefully come up with something. In the meantime encourage everyone to actively post and discuss whatever ends up happening on these first two nights. 2) D1 and D2 lynch. Take the risk that we hit a JOAT or force them to have to role claim and have vote patterns to discuss as well even though they will be taken with a grain of salt. If we go for option 2 I think we need "force" everyone to vote for someone. Not voting shouldn't be allowed so we can at least get a read on what everyone is doing. I forgot to add one more thing, but it should be obvious to everyone. Passing two days with no lynch, to wait for JOATs is risky also because they can be killed by mafia. Today's 17% chance and tomorrow 18%. So in total there's 32% chance that after 2 nights mafia will kill at least one JOAT (compared to 20% chance of JOATs finding scum redhanded). Its really not favorable to wait (and that's why all those mafia experts decided always to go with lynch) Then if we decide to start lynching I want to see an actual vote from everyone each day. Anyone who fails to vote will get my vote (and I encourage others to as well) the next day unless a JOAT actually catches someone and comes out.