655 replies to this topic

[Imran Ehsan]

Actually just re-read the rules and although its not too clear but I think its enough:

 

If a Cannibal night-kills another Cannibal, they take all of the bodies their target had, learning all the role/alignment information their target knew. This will include their target's night-kill target from that same night, if applicable.

 

So I guess night kills can be done even if the Cannibal himself is killed that night.

[Euclid of Alexandria]

Since he had the deciding vote in killgor vs KevinH I decided to have a look at all of Lyner's posts so far. This is what I found:

#16: RV killgor.
#19: Fluff.
#48: Defending KevinH. Attacking inactives.
#92: Fluff about the vig. Attacking inactives.
#107: Fluff. Avoiding to say who he suspects, even when prompted to do so.
#109: Fluff.
#118: Vote Xarastier for being inactive.
#132: Fluff.
#192: Defending KevinH again. Attacking inactives. Does this by quoting Imran and adding the word seconded.
#256: Unvotes. Says he will be away for 3 days. Promises to give his opinions when he returns.
#286: Fluff.
#328: Fluff.
#346: Fluff.
#374: Fluff.
#380: Defending Rafay. Attacking inactives.
#401Vote killgor to pressure him thus saving KevinH.
#415: Fluff.

A couple of things to note:
- Most of Lyner's posts are fluff.
- Not once does Lyner express suspicion of anyone specific. He just attacks inactives.
- Lyner never really questions anyone.
- Lyner attacks those that 'stay under the radar' but seems to pretty much stay under the radar himself as well.
- Lyner never keeps his promise in #256 to give his opinion, posting 4 fluff posts instead.
- At the end of the day Lyner suddenly votes for VT killgor giving no good reason and thus saving KevinH.

Would a townie act like this? I think not.

Vote: Lyner

[Rafay]

Sorry I was late guys.......RL!!!

 

Well now here's a problem.....Its either a brilliant strategy by the mafia or a blunder that they let me live. Anyway I wanna thank them......

 

As for the question whom I roleblocked, it was Nerau.

[Euclid of Alexandria]

Correction. In #192 Lyner was defending Rafay rather than KevinH. That does not change the overall picture of his behavior though.

It still looks like a scum posting fluff and attacking inactives to appear active himself. Meanwhile he never specifically suspects or questions anyone or anything. And where he defends KevinH and Rafay he mainly does so by quoting others and agreeing with them, i.e. not by actually saying anything substantial himself.

[Commander Shepard]

The vig probably didn't hit KevinH because he knew we had flawed reasons for voting, hence a townie got lynched.

There were (and are) excellent reasons to vote for KevinH. It is interesting to see for instance that both Martino and killgor, the latter a known townie, were voting KevinH at the end of the day and are now dead.

 

I thought the first reasons were terrible when Kaziocore tried to defend them so I seriously don't think they're better now.

However KevinH could be scum as could others, the only logically reason I can find for voting KevinH is that he could be scum based on the scum %.

Nothing is clear with Kev.

 

1 of the 4 people voting KevinH were nightkilled, hardly remarkable and the town(not entirely KevinH's fault) killed Killgor.

I would not draw conclusions from that.

[Commander Shepard]

Sorry I was late guys.......RL!!!

 

Well now here's a problem.....Its either a brilliant strategy by the mafia or a blunder that they let me live. Anyway I wanna thank them......

 

As for the question whom I roleblocked, it was Nerau.

 

Did you have any suspicions of Nerau or was it a random choice to block him?

[Lyner]

That escalated quickly Euclid

 

Alright here we go:

#419 : Kevin has been pro-town from the start for all I can see, while killgor was low on opinions, it's clear who I should vote for, and that was not a motivation nor reason to vote, it's addendum :|

 

Since he had the deciding vote in killgor vs KevinH I decided to have a look at all of Lyner's posts so far. This is what I found:

#16: RV killgor.
#19: Fluff.
#48: Defending KevinH. Attacking inactives.
#92: Fluff about the vig. Attacking inactives.
#107: Fluff. Avoiding to say who he suspects, even when prompted to do so.
#109: Fluff.
#118: Vote Xarastier for being inactive.
#132: Fluff.
#192: Defending KevinH again. Attacking inactives. Does this by quoting Imran and adding the word seconded.
#256: Unvotes. Says he will be away for 3 days. Promises to give his opinions when he returns.
#286: Fluff.
#328: Fluff.
#346: Fluff.
#374: Fluff.
#380: Defending Rafay. Attacking inactives.
#401Vote killgor to pressure him thus saving KevinH.
#415: Fluff.

A couple of things to note:
- Most of Lyner's posts are fluff. 1
- Not once does Lyner express suspicion of anyone specific. He just attacks inactives. 2
- Lyner never really questions anyone. 3
- Lyner attacks those that 'stay under the radar' but seems to pretty much stay under the radar himself as well. 4
- Lyner never keeps his promise in #256 to give his opinion, posting 4 fluff posts instead. 5
- At the end of the day Lyner suddenly votes for VT killgor giving no good reason and thus saving KevinH. 6

Would a townie act like this? I think not.

Vote: Lyner

 

1. Nothing to comment here, nothing to argue about

2. Yes, that is my rule for first day of mafia, nothing can be proven on first day and when inactives passed the first night they're almost useless because we can't read them

3. Look at number 1

4 & 5. Thanks to you and Shephard, we can observe people's reactions and giving our opinions when something smells, and don't say that I didn't give my opinion, at #107 I said mine, I think I made it clear I prefer short clear opinions, not everyone is like you, deal with it Also when I don't say anything then that means I don't have any useful opinion IMO, you can prompt me for response though, I'll clear everything

6. I'm asking for killgor's (and RoT's) opinion, and he gave a positive reaction(my "pressure" seems working). And nah I'm not defending anyone

 

At least I'm convinced that you're pro-town so I won't vote back (well for now)

 

 

 

 

 

Now that we know Rafay blocked Nerau, we can assume he's a townie, now that leaves us with:

Nerau: neutral, can't get any readings

KevinH: might be a townie

Rafay: not enough information, might be scum

Commander Shepard: probably townie if this is his first time

Lyner: cool townie

Imran Ehsan: might be a townie

Euclid of Alexandria: might be a townie

Xx Karl xX: See what I was talking about?

 

 

Each townies have their own roles, so I hope we can cooperate

Also I'd like hear everyone's opinions of everyone, what do you think of their allegiances?

[Lyner]

Now that we know Rafay blocked Nerau, we can assume he's a townie, now that leaves us with:

Nerau: neutral, can't get any readings

 

[Euclid of Alexandria]

1 of the 4 people voting KevinH were nightkilled, hardly remarkable and the town(not entirely KevinH's fault) killed Killgor.
I would not draw conclusions from that.

After people had unvoted Rafay it was KevinH that got the killgor wagon running. That could of course be easily explained by him not wanting to be lynched himself.

However, Lyner put the decisive vote on killgor, thus saving KevinH. Why did Lyner do that? He had not previously expressed any suspicion of killgor (not counting his RV). He did not join or even acknowledge Kazio when Kazio was pressing for a killgor lynch. So, yeah, why would Lyner vote killgor rather than KevinH? One explanation would be that Lyner read KevinH as town. But then why didn't he just say so when he voted killgor? Another explanation would be that Lyner is a goon and KevinH is his buddy.

[Imran Ehsan]

Thats a pretty strange set of assumptions

 

That escalated quickly Euclid

 

Now that we know Rafay blocked Nerau, we can assume he's a townie, now that leaves us with:

Nerau: neutral, can't get any readings

KevinH: might be a townie

Rafay: not enough information, might be scum

Commander Shepard: probably townie if this is his first time

Lyner: cool townie

Imran Ehsan: might be a townie

Euclid of Alexandria: might be a townie

Xx Karl xX: See what I was talking about?

 

 

Each townies have their own roles, so I hope we can cooperate

Also I'd like hear everyone's opinions of everyone, what do you think of their allegiances?

 

Thats a pretty strange set of assumptions. You are saying almost everyone looks scummy except Rafay who is assuredly confirmed townie? Why? Because he has claimed to role block Nerau. Unless Neraus and Rafay are scum together (which also has its set of drawback..you id one the other is doomed), why would Rafay say he role blocked Nerau. If he was scum masquerading as the role blocker he would have most assuredly claimed to have blocked one of the guys who were night killed.

 

Also we can not totally count out Nerau as scum. The only info we got from Rafay's role block is that he is not the Vig or the SK. He could be one of the scum who didnt send in the NK (but his partner did).

[Imran Ehsan]

I should have said "everyone looks townie to you" not scummy.

[Lyner]

1 of the 4 people voting KevinH were nightkilled, hardly remarkable and the town(not entirely KevinH's fault) killed Killgor.
I would not draw conclusions from that.

After people had unvoted Rafay it was KevinH that got the killgor wagon running. That could of course be easily explained by him not wanting to be lynched himself.

However, Lyner put the decisive vote on killgor, thus saving KevinH. Why did Lyner do that? He had not previously expressed any suspicion of killgor (not counting his RV). He did not join or even acknowledge Kazio when Kazio was pressing for a killgor lynch. So, yeah, why would Lyner vote killgor rather than KevinH? One explanation would be that Lyner read KevinH as town. But then why didn't he just say so when he voted killgor? Another explanation would be that Lyner is a goon and KevinH is his buddy.

 

Actually I intended to vote either RoT/killgor so I can see their reactions and apparently killgor has more votes so I picked him for more pressure, and you know the rest

 

 

 

Thats a pretty strange set of assumptions

 

That escalated quickly Euclid

 

Now that we know Rafay blocked Nerau, we can assume he's a townie, now that leaves us with:

Nerau: neutral, can't get any readings

KevinH: might be a townie

Rafay: not enough information, might be scum

Commander Shepard: probably townie if this is his first time

Lyner: cool townie

Imran Ehsan: might be a townie

Euclid of Alexandria: might be a townie

Xx Karl xX: See what I was talking about?

 

 

Each townies have their own roles, so I hope we can cooperate

Also I'd like hear everyone's opinions of everyone, what do you think of their allegiances?

 

Thats a pretty strange set of assumptions. You are saying almost everyone looks scummy except Rafay who is assuredly confirmed townie? Why? Because he has claimed to role block Nerau. Unless Neraus and Rafay are scum together (which also has its set of drawback..you id one the other is doomed), why would Rafay say he role blocked Nerau. If he was scum masquerading as the role blocker he would have most assuredly claimed to have blocked one of the guys who were night killed.

 

Also we can not totally count out Nerau as scum. The only info we got from Rafay's role block is that he is not the Vig or the SK. He could be one of the scum who didnt send in the NK (but his partner did).

 

That is the problem, I haven't seen any suspicious behaviour except rafay(and there's meta personality to consider, though I won't count on it)

And yes I'm open to any possibilities, I forgot to say "assuming rafay is honest", my bad there :|

[Lyner]

and no, I didn't suspect him for blocking Nerau, nothing suspicious about that, but the overall impressions

[Commander Shepard]

The SK also has 1 Night roleblock immunity so we can not confirm that Nerau is not the SK.

[KevinH]

Even without the explicit cannibal rules, it's standard that all kills take place.

See http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Natural_Action_Resolution and in particular the quote "Killing doesn't stop the actions of the dead player. (Imagine that all kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.)"

 

Going on the assumptions

1) Rafay and Nerau are townies

2) All townies got killed in the night

3) I'm townie (not really an assumption for me, but the other townies must assume)

 

Therefore 3 of the other 5 players are scum.

 

We need to lynch scum, but I think the odds are in our favor.

[Euclid of Alexandria]

#419 : Kevin has been pro-town from the start for all I can see, while killgor was low on opinions, it's clear who I should vote for, and that was not a motivation nor reason to vote, it's addendum :|

IIRC killgor was pretty vocal about his suspicions of and Kazio and me. Why would you say he was low on opinions? Especially since KevinH has IMO mostly been talking about game mechanics rather than having actual opinions of other players. So, not buying this.
 
 

- Most of Lyner's posts are fluff. 1
- Not once does Lyner express suspicion of anyone specific. He just attacks inactives. 2
- Lyner never really questions anyone. 3
- Lyner attacks those that 'stay under the radar' but seems to pretty much stay under the radar himself as well. 4
- Lyner never keeps his promise in #256 to give his opinion, posting 4 fluff posts instead. 5
- At the end of the day Lyner suddenly votes for VT killgor giving no good reason and thus saving KevinH. 6

 
1. Nothing to comment here, nothing to argue about
2. Yes, that is my rule for first day of mafia, nothing can be proven on first day and when inactives passed the first night they're almost useless because we can't read them
3. Look at number 1
4 & 5. Thanks to you and Shephard, we can observe people's reactions and giving our opinions when something smells, and don't say that I didn't give my opinion, at #107 I said mine, I think I made it clear I prefer short clear opinions, not everyone is like you, deal with it Also when I don't say anything then that means I don't have any useful opinion IMO, you can prompt me for response though, I'll clear everything
6. I'm asking for killgor's (and RoT's) opinion, and he gave a positive reaction(my "pressure" seems working). And nah I'm not defending anyone

1. So, we agree that most your posts were fluff.
2. So, we agree that you mostly attacked inactives. Of course it is hard to read inactives on Day 2. The same is true for fluff posters though. Oh wait, that's you.
3. So, we agree that you did not suspect or question anything or anyone.
4 & 5. Yes, I do say that, other than your inactives lynch policy, you didn't give your opinion. The #107 you refer to is just another example of you attacking an inactive, Xaras in that case.
6. You asked for people's opinion several times. Not with any specific questions though. You just call out their name. That's just fluff. You don't give your own opinions and try to hide that by directing attention to others. That's my take on that anyway.
 
 

At least I'm convinced that you're pro-town so I won't vote back (well for now)

Smart move. OMGUS would really look bad for you now.

 

Now that we know Rafay blocked Nerau, we can assume he's a townie, now that leaves us with:
Nerau: neutral, can't get any readings
KevinH: might be a townie
Rafay: not enough information, might be scum
Commander Shepard: probably townie if this is his first time
Lyner: cool townie
Imran Ehsan: might be a townie
Euclid of Alexandria: might be a townie
Xx Karl xX: See what I was talking about?

Fluff. Looks like you're just continuing your "we don't know anything" rhetoric from Day 1. Of course everyone *might* be a townie. Duh! And what do you mean not enough information on Rafay? Due to his claim we have more information on him than on anyone else. The above is just about as weak as a list of reads can get. It lacks almost all motivation and it contains only one watered down scum read (*might* be scum). We have 3 scum you know. Give me some actual reads please.

 

Each townies have their own roles, so I hope we can cooperate
Also I'd like hear everyone's opinions of everyone, what do you think of their allegiances?

Fluff. Or, looking at your emphasis, is this supposed to be a soft claim?

 

and no, I didn't suspect him for blocking Nerau, nothing suspicious about that, but the overall impressions

Well that's odd. In #380 you say "I'm still not convinced that rafay is a scum, he attracted too much suspicion into himself." Since then all Rafay did was claim RB and claim that he blocked Nerau. Since by your own word there is nothing suspicious about the latter it follows that your "overall impression" changed from not being convinced Rafay is scum to suspecting Rafay just over his (forced) RB claim. Care to explain why exactly that was suspicious? Also, why did you not mention those suspicions at the time?

[Rafay]

@Comm Shep: Her silence got to me. Maybe it was a bad move considering I was thinking Euclid and Kaz were scum....

[Commander Shepard]

There were many silent, is there any particular reason hers stood out?

What did Euclid and Kaz do to make you think they were scummy?

And do you still think Euclid is scummy?

[Commander Shepard]

What is the general opinion of Kaziocore's death? Kaz had one vote on him by Rafay.

As Rafay mentioned early by the strategies, this could be a scum strategy to avoid hitting Rafay and instead hitting those that believe he is indeed the Roleblocker, leaving more doubters than believers and in turn causing a rift having the town fighting each other.

[KevinH]

the Vigilante will most likely kill a townie. When it happens, I'll say, "I told you so."

 
I told you so.

How do I know the Vigilante killed a townie?

Because I am he.
 

vote KevinH
We've had this discussion countless times before. Until we have lost the game, the vig/lynch is always numerically more likely to target a townie. That does not mean that it is in our favor to sit around until we have lost.

I will be voting for whoever has the most votes between Nerau, KevinH and Euclid. There is no reason to still have your vote on Rafay. For now, that means I'm keeping my vote on KevinH.

I don't want him to claim a specific role, because it would make it easier for the scum to decide what to do.

Anyway, I am voting for KevinH because I suspect him more than anyone else.

I felt Martino was scum because of these posts. It was a weak reason to vote for me in the first place (I suggested the Vigilante shouldn't kill the first night). He kept his vote on me because I was voting for Rafay. He didn't want Rafay to claim specifically. He probably would have continued to vote for me during this day. For these reasons, I used the Vigilante kill and targeted him.

I felt Martino was scum, but I was wrong. He was a Vanilla Townie.

Why am I role-claiming? I'm taking a chance, but I am going to risk the game by believing Rafay is truly the Roleblocker. The scum now have to choose between two power roles to night kill. They might still prefer to try for the Dietician.

The Dietician might have investigated me and found Cannibal. Hopefully they'll believe my claim since I'm posting it first.

It's useful for the Townies to know Martino was a Vanilla Townie.

There are still at least 2 scum out there. The Serial Killer wouldn't die from one shot and at most one Mafia Goon was killed by the Serial Killer.

I'll use my kill tonight, too, so there will most likely be 4 more dead players after a lynch today and 3 kills in the night. That will bring it down to probably 4 players alive tomorrow and the lynch or lose scenario.

So ... Martino's scum-hunting was totally wrong ... I'm townie ... who should we lynch today?