288 replies to this topic

[Curufinwe]

Captain it was just a random vote im sorry, you are the person I know least about and for now, until you post more that is the way it stands.

[molestargazer]

If they won't vote for the mafia, then the rest of the town will have to do the lynching and then the ones that didn't vote to lynch would be targeted as drug lords.

It's certainly a Wine In Front Of Me situation. But if I were a drug lord, I would really, really, really want the mafia eliminated first.

Massive WIFOM, that doesn't get us anywhere.
Let's move on.

I think the drug dealers have something to ride on with the random voting stage. They can vote "randomly" but in reality are voting for Mafia and hopefully create a trend of votes. So as of now any "random" vote could actually be not random at all. Hopefully this will give us hints as to who are druggies and scummies.

Possible breadcrumb? Either way, we're getting more WIFOM. And I'm not liking that.

Right, RVS is over.
So.
Unvote
Vote: Falzis

[Electric Mango]

Massive WIFOM, that doesn't get us anywhere.
Let's move on.


Possible breadcrumb? Either way, we're getting more WIFOM. And I'm not liking that.

Right, RVS is over.
So.
Unvote
Vote: Falzis

I'm not sure what to think about this post to be honest. My initial instinct told me that you're a drug dealer and Falzis is mafia since you just put vote #2 on him. Are you trying to to tell us something because I don't see what he said as being scummy and you said yourself that RVS (Random Voting Stage) is over. Maybe you're the breadcrumb. Also if you don't like WIFOM (<-click for description new guys) then this game isn't for you. This whole game is cloak and dagger.

[molestargazer]

I understand the game's cloak and dagger. But trying to guess what the dealers will DO isn't going to get us anywhere but lead to wild speculation which will distract us from finding the dealers / scum.
What we CAN do is analyse what happens after some discussion, lynches, and nights.

[Falzis]

So that's what WIFOM is! Lol. Shmancy word for reverse psychology. And my brain just exploded on the section on WIFOM Game Theory. What's breadcrumbs by the way (clues?)?

---

Did you vote for me because I created a WIFOM? But what about Kevin?

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer. But I know I'm not scum, so it's either:

1) You are a drug dealer putting a lynch trend towards a townie so you will have better chances of winning late game (instead of trying to get mafia killed early on, which in late game you will be killed for by the townies).

2) You are mafia pretending to be a drug dealer by posturing as you are certain of your vote so that either a drug dealer or townie gets lynched, thus more chances of winning for you (lynch + NK). You're taking high risks maybe thinking you won't get killed early to ruin your faction's chances since townie will go for the "mafia" kill first before a drug dealer kill.

You can't be a townie since townies won't put a trend vote early on and with such certainty given the lack of information and basis for suspicions. Mere WIFOM cannot be grounds since everyone will be making WIFOM statements to prod discussion and maybe preempt scum actions by reverse psychology. And a townie pretending to be a drug dealer to push mafia into a corner or bait them is too risky since you can be perceived as a genuine drug dealer and will get lynched later on.

So concluding that you can't be a townie (except for a very very small chance), my safest bet would be to vote for you.

Vote: molestargazer

[molestargazer]

So that's what WIFOM is! Lol. Shmancy word for reverse psychology. And my brain just exploded on the section on WIFOM Game Theory. What's breadcrumbs by the way (clues?)?

---

Did you vote for me because I created a WIFOM? But what about Kevin?

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer. But I know I'm not scum, so it's either:

1) You are a drug dealer putting a lynch trend towards a townie so you will have better chances of winning late game (instead of trying to get mafia killed early on, which in late game you will be killed for by the townies).

2) You are mafia pretending to be a drug dealer by posturing as you are certain of your vote so that either a drug dealer or townie gets lynched, thus more chances of winning for you (lynch + NK). You're taking high risks maybe thinking you won't get killed early to ruin your faction's chances since townie will go for the "mafia" kill first before a drug dealer kill.

You can't be a townie since townies won't put a trend vote early on and with such certainty given the lack of information and basis for suspicions. Mere WIFOM cannot be grounds since everyone will be making WIFOM statements to prod discussion and maybe preempt scum actions by reverse psychology. And a townie pretending to be a drug dealer to push mafia into a corner or bait them is too risky since you can be perceived as a genuine drug dealer and will get lynched later on.

So concluding that you can't be a townie (except for a very very small chance), my safest bet would be to vote for you.

Vote: molestargazer

My first instinct: Wow, OMGUS.
But let's look at this in more detail.

Did you vote for me because I created a WIFOM? But what about Kevin?

1) I can only vote for one of you.
2) I thought you're more likely to be scum or a dealer from the breadcrumb.

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer. But I know I'm not scum, so it's either:

You knowing you're scum can't prove anything to anyone but yourself.
I think, at this moment in time, you're most likely to belong to anti-town faction than anyone else in the game.

1) You are a drug dealer putting a lynch trend towards a townie so you will have better chances of winning late game (instead of trying to get mafia killed early on, which in late game you will be killed for by the townies).

No.

2) You are mafia pretending to be a drug dealer by posturing as you are certain of your vote so that either a drug dealer or townie gets lynched, thus more chances of winning for you (lynch + NK). You're taking high risks maybe thinking you won't get killed early to ruin your faction's chances since townie will go for the "mafia" kill first before a drug dealer kill.

No again. What makes you think I'm pretend to be / am a drug dealer? Just because I voted for you? Don't like this.

You can't be a townie since townies won't put a trend vote early on and with such certainty given the lack of information and basis for suspicions.

A 'trend vote'? Do explain.
I'm not certain you're scum. I think, so far, you're most likely to be. I'm going off everything I have so far, and what you posted came up as most scummy. Why is this so hard to believe?

Mere WIFOM cannot be grounds since everyone will be making WIFOM statements to prod discussion and maybe preempt scum actions by reverse psychology.

WIFOM helps no-one but scum by getting us bogged down.
No, everyone will NOT be making reverse psychology posts to try and pre-empt scum. That's stupid, and leads to even more WIFOM.

And a townie pretending to be a drug dealer to push mafia into a corner or bait them is too risky since you can be perceived as a genuine drug dealer and will get lynched later on.

Once again, I'm not pretend to be a drug dealer.

So concluding that you can't be a townie (except for a very very small chance), my safest bet would be to vote for you.

So, to summarise, your case on me is that you think I'm a drug dealer because I'm voting for you with what I have so far, and not making WIFOM statements?

This post seems to be mere OMGUS, and it's persuading me more that my vote was a good idea. I'm not certain, but I'm more sure than I was before.

[KevinH]

What makes you say that Kevin?

Drug dealers know who the mafia are.

What I meant to say was that if we lynch a drug lord then there is only one drug lord that could want to lynch a townie.

Also, if there is one mafia and one drug lord, the drug lord would still want to lynch the mafia.

Furthermore, if the one remaining mafia correctly suspects the one remaining drug lord, the mafia would night-kill the drug lord.

I'm convinced our best course of action is to lynch a mafia, then lynch a drug lord.
The devil is in the details: who are they?

[CanucksDynasty]

1st of all I'm on an iPod so typing limited. 2nd wth? Ever heard of random voting? I'm pretty sure you have.

Also cd I agree with what narsis said. I can elaborate more tomorrow if u want me 2.

From what I can see so far keV looks good

Please eloborate.


PS: Damn forum still giving me that stupid 403 problem.

[CanucksDynasty]

What I meant to say was that if we lynch a drug lord then there is only one drug lord that could want to lynch a townie.

Also, if there is one mafia and one drug lord, the drug lord would still want to lynch the mafia.

Furthermore, if the one remaining mafia correctly suspects the one remaining drug lord, the mafia would night-kill the drug lord.

I'm convinced our best course of action is to lynch a mafia, then lynch a drug lord.
The devil is in the details: who are they?

Ideally we would want to lynch a mafia on D1 and hope mafia NK a drug dealer on N1.

[Falzis]

Ughh mole I was expecting more from you honestly. From your post it will seem like a deadlock because I am sure I am townie and you are saying you're not drug dealer/mafia.

But let's look at your post.

1) I can only vote for one of you.
2) I thought you're more likely to be scum or a dealer from the breadcrumb.

Again, what is that bread crumb? Kevin and I both WIFOMed so where is the nuance that is so scumtelling?

You knowing you're scum can't prove anything to anyone but yourself.
I think, at this moment in time, you're most likely to belong to anti-town faction than anyone else in the game.

Me knowing I'm scum? Ugh no I said I know I'm townie. Did you even read my post or are you purposely trying to mislead me or the others? Why would I likely belong to an anti-town faction? Again, no basis except for a weak argument for a "distracting" WIFOMing, which again, KevinH did more than me.

"No" statements

It doesn't add much to the discussion, does it?

A 'trend vote'? Do explain.
I'm not certain you're scum. I think, so far, you're most likely to be. I'm going off everything I have so far, and what you posted came up as most scummy. Why is this so hard to believe?

Hello? Have you been reading? A trend vote because I am someone people can persuade easily to lynch off even if I am a townie because of my "noobishness". A trend vote because your basis is weak and even baseless (WIFOM? Kevin just made more WIFOMs). A trend vote because, ugh, duh, you're trying to make a trend?

WIFOM helps no-one but scum by getting us bogged down.
No, everyone will NOT be making reverse psychology posts to try and pre-empt scum. That's stupid, and leads to even more WIFOM.

Why would it get us bogged down? Where's the analysis? Furthermore, I didn't say everyone will post WIFOMs to preempt scum, I said everyone will most likely post WIFOMs this early in the game EITHER to initiate discussion or preempt scum. Misrep. =.=

Once again, I'm not pretend to be a drug dealer.

Your word. Much like your stand against me, no one can prove it except yourself at this point.

So, to summarise, your case on me is that you think I'm a drug dealer because I'm voting for you with what I have so far, and not making WIFOM statements?

This post seems to be mere OMGUS, and it's persuading me more that my vote was a good idea. I'm not certain, but I'm more sure than I was before.

My case on you is that I think you cannot be a townie for sure. I didn't say it was because you are NOT making WIFOM statements (another misrep >.>).

I'm more likely sure that you cannot be a townie since no townie will SURELY vote for someone. You said RVS is over, maybe for you. But that would only mean you are CERTAIN with your vote. But at this stage, no one can be certain except for drug dealers, or pretend drug dealers. Townies who have no certain information will NEVER vote for CERTAIN at this early in the game.

You just outed yourself mole. An experienced player like you would not hastily vote for someone for SURE. And vote for someone who is an easy picking. I'm more sure than before that you CANNOT be a townie given your actions.

If you recant later and said it was all a bluff to try and pressure me and see my reactions, then I don't know what to think but look at you distrustfully.

My vote stays because you, dear sir, CANNOT be townie. Hastily CERTAIN, bandwagon, and weakly grounded (maybe even baseless) vote on me smells scum.

You've dug yourself a hole. (I just can't resist the pun )

[Narsis]

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer.

i'm sorry to say it but that doesn't make him a drug dealer. not 100%. the drug dealers could be laying low for all we know. you could be a drug dealer and mole the mafia for all we know. but we don't. thus we must go by what we do know. and what we know is that mole suspects that you placed a breadcrumb. looking at your post myself...it could very well be a breadcrumb. the interesting part...: you never actually voted meaning that if it is a breadcrumb then you are saying your partner is laying the vote. thus either:

1. you are a drug dealer and your partner has placed a vote on a mafia and you are trying to draw attention to it.
2. you are townie and that post wasn't a breadcrumb.
3. you are mafia and that post wasn't a breadcrumb.

so is it a breadcrumb or not? we will only know when Falzis dies. the interesting point is that if he is a drug dealer then we should be able to easily guess who his partner is out of those who voted in the RVS. if he is mafia...then the likelyhood of mole being a druggie increases. if he is town...well...that would suck.

[molestargazer]

Again, what is that bread crumb? Kevin and I both WIFOMed so where is the nuance that is so scumtelling?

Dropping a hint that you're going to do something / have done something.
For instance, in your case, you could have said the Random voting thing because you HAVE done it, hence you're a drugdealer.

Me knowing I'm scum? Ugh no I said I know I'm townie. Did you even read my post or are you purposely trying to mislead me or the others?

Typo. My bad. Calm down.

Why would I likely belong to an anti-town faction? Again, no basis except for a weak argument for a "distracting" WIFOMing, which again, KevinH did more than me.

From what I've seen of you, you look the scummiest. My reasons have been outlined.
Your breadcrumbing as well as your WIFOM puts you above KevinH in my books.

It doesn't add much to the discussion, does it?

It states my opinion on that case. There's nothing I can say other than no, it's all based on the idea that i'm a dealer. Which I'm not.

A trend vote because I am someone people can persuade easily to lynch off even if I am a townie because of my "noobishness".

That certainly isn't the reason I'm voting for you.

Hello? Have you been reading?

Please, let's skip any ad hom or incredulous insults and get down to it?

A trend vote because your basis is weak and even baseless (WIFOM? Kevin just made more WIFOMs). A trend vote because, ugh, duh, you're trying to make a trend?

You could say everyone was trying to form a trend when they vote - they're trying to get others to vote for the same person, therefore lynch scum, surely?

Why would it get us bogged down? Where's the analysis?

It would get us bogged down discussing whether the scum / dealers would bother doing this or that, which is, at this stage of the game, pointless.

I said everyone will most likely post WIFOMs this early in the game EITHER to initiate discussion or preempt scum. Misrep. =.=

Same applies. WIFOM gets us nowhere with discussion.

Your word. Much like your stand against me, no one can prove it except yourself at this point

Precisely. You can't prove you're pro-town any more than I can.

You just outed yourself mole. An experienced player like you would not hastily vote for someone for SURE.

Please quote me where I said I was sure you were scum.

And vote for someone who is an easy picking. I'm more sure than before that you CANNOT be a townie given your actions.

I'm not voting for you 'cos you're an easy picking. I'm voting for you because I think you might be scum.

My vote stays because you, dear sir, CANNOT be townie. Hastily CERTAIN, bandwagon, and weakly grounded (maybe even baseless) vote on me smells scum.

You vote me for being 'certain' that you're scum (Once again, please quote where I've said that), and yet you're so certain I'm scum. Hypocritical?
This still smells very much of OMGUS.

[Electric Mango]

Which is....

Please eloborate.

So you want to know why my vote was quasi based off of his last game? Well here goes. It's basically what I've already stated but I'll clarify it one more time so everyone knows my position.

1st of all, I typically throw out a random vote to start the game. History will prove me right here. Now since I'm going to vote for someone anyway I may as well take my best stab in the dark. Why Falzis? Last game we played I, as well as several others, thought we had a really good plan that would help the town win. Falzis did not agree with the plan even though it gave us the best chance of winning. He instead chose his own path and the town lost the game. So I figured with my vote on Falzis I have a 57% chance of hitting scum (4/7 since I'm townie) or at the very worst taking out a townie that could make another mistake.

[Falzis]

More misreps. I didn't say that he was 100% a drug dealer. Omission of the further paragraphs will make it seem so. But I gave a lot of scenarios of what he could be and couldn't be. For sure, he can't be townie making that vote because his vote wasn't random as he buttressed with his own statement that RVS is over. (refer to previous posts for elaboration on what his nonrandom vote means don't want to type it all again).

Again, what is the bread crumb you guys are referring to? Because if it's the one WIFOM statement I made versus the WIFOM statements that Kevin has made, I want to know why the spotlight is on my "breadcrumb".

Ugh I just don't get you guys. When KevinH is making hypotheticals and behavioral analysis of mafia / drug actions, it's not WIFOM or breadcrumbing.

mole, you are sure on your vote because you said that RVS is over. Which means your vote is deliberate, intentional, and calculated. Means you're sure. And if you're townie and it's just based on WIFOM, again I point to Kevin. I cannot stress enough how there's a double standard. I'm not certain you're scum, I'm just certain you cannot be a townie as of now.

Also, if there is one mafia and one drug lord, the drug lord would still want to lynch the mafia.

Furthermore, if the one remaining mafia correctly suspects the one remaining drug lord, the mafia would night-kill the drug lord.

Isn't this a WIFOM?

[molestargazer]

Last post before I'm off for the night.

Again, what is the bread crumb you guys are referring to? Because if it's the one WIFOM statement I made versus the WIFOM statements that Kevin has made, I want to know why the spotlight is on my "breadcrumb".

THIS POST:

I think the drug dealers have something to ride on with the random voting stage. They can vote "randomly" but in reality are voting for Mafia and hopefully create a trend of votes. So as of now any "random" vote could actually be not random at all. Hopefully this will give us hints as to who are druggies and scummies.

I explained why in my last post:

Dropping a hint that you're going to do something / have done something.
For instance, in your case, you could have said the Random voting thing because you HAVE done it, hence you're a drugdealer.

Ugh I just don't get you guys. When KevinH is making hypotheticals and behavioral analysis of mafia / drug actions, it's not WIFOM or breadcrumbing.

Incorrect.
It is. But I find you scummier.

mole, you are sure on your vote because you said that RVS is over. Which means your vote is deliberate, intentional, and calculated. Means you're sure.

No, no, no, and more no.
Just because RVS is over doesn't mean I have to be 100% sure in everything I do. Votes can be used to gain reactions, or simply put pressure on someone who you think looks scummy.

And if you're townie and it's just based on WIFOM, again I point to Kevin. I cannot stress enough how there's a double standard. I'm not certain you're scum, I'm just certain you cannot be a townie as of now.

Why so certain? How can you be 100% sure?

[CanucksDynasty]

So you want to know why my vote was quasi based off of his last game? Well here goes. It's basically what I've already stated but I'll clarify it one more time so everyone knows my position.

1st of all, I typically throw out a random vote to start the game. History will prove me right here. Now since I'm going to vote for someone anyway I may as well take my best stab in the dark. Why Falzis? Last game we played I, as well as several others, thought we had a really good plan that would help the town win. Falzis did not agree with the plan even though it gave us the best chance of winning. He instead chose his own path and the town lost the game. So I figured with my vote on Falzis I have a 57% chance of hitting scum (4/7 since I'm townie) or at the very worst taking out a townie that could make another mistake.

I don't agree with this logic.

The random vote thing is fine as even I have done it and will continue to do so in future games. What I disagree with is that you are voting him based on poor judgement in a past game rather than his gamestyle/gameplay. Falzis is still pretty new and I'm willing to cut him some slack while he learns the game (same goes for Cur and captain8track). We have a 50% chance of hitting scum not 57% (cuz everyone else will claim townie anyways). Taking out a townie is not an option given that the ratio is 4:2:2. Lynching is the only power the town has and can ill afford to lynch a townie.

[KevinH]

Isn't this a WIFOM?

I don't mind WIFOM-type analysis, so I won't condemn anyone for it.

To answer the question: In this case I would say no, this is not WIFOM.
First, the drug lord will want to lynch the mafia in a subtle way such that suspicion is not arised.
Second, the mafia will night-kill the drug lord without revealing himself.

[Falzis]

1st, that WIFOM aka "breadcrumbing" was merely an observation. As in previous games, I like to post the first thing on my head. I'm a very intuitive and spontaneous person. That's why when it comes to strategies and calculation, I leave it to Kevin and the gang.

2nd, why do I look scummier based on one WIFOM compared to Kevin's plurality of WIFOM posts? There's no comparative analysis. You're just lumping me without much thought. And townies don't do that.

For instance, in your case, you could have said the Random voting thing because you HAVE done it, hence you're a drugdealer.

3rd, I haven't voted before voting for you. So how could that be breadcrumbing. Again, you're just reeking of illogical contentions.

---

Well then, why did you have to mention that RVS is over? When clearly it wasn't we're just on day 1 of Day 1! That was the implication of your "RVS is over" statement. Ugh yeah I understand the pressuring or eliciting reaction thing but your vote coupled with an "RVS is over" looks very very suspicious and points me to untownieness on your part. (reason has been stated in previous posts why he's likely not a townie by voting and saying RVS is over)

---

Last post too. Hope to read good posts later when I awake (I hope I'm not dead I don't want to die early like Aquinas T_T) Nyt!

[Narsis]

More misreps. I didn't say that he was 100% a drug dealer. Omission of the further paragraphs will make it seem so. But I gave a lot of scenarios of what he could be and couldn't be. For sure, he can't be townie making that vote because his vote wasn't random as he buttressed with his own statement that RVS is over.

you just contradicted yourself. you said you never said that he was 100% a druggie. yet you say that he 100% can't be town. which leaves him as being either mafia or druggie. however you also say that he voted you for being scum. thus out of those two scenarios he can only be a druggie if he was voting you as scum.

the only other option is that he is mafia voting you an that he thinks you are a druggie. thats what i think personally. mole thinks you are a druggie due to the breadcrumb. since you throw that he is town out of the window...he must be mafia since he cant be your partner. however in the post i quoted(quoted again below for reference) you only give two scenarios: 1) that he is a drug dealer or 2) that he is mafia pretending to be a drug dealer.

yet neither work for the simple reason that he believes you to be a druggie. if he believes you to be a druggie then he cant be a druggie or be pretending to be a druggie since that's what he's pinning on you.

thus the only option is that he is town.

tl;dr: go back and read it!

So that's what WIFOM is! Lol. Shmancy word for reverse psychology. And my brain just exploded on the section on WIFOM Game Theory. What's breadcrumbs by the way (clues?)?

---

Did you vote for me because I created a WIFOM? But what about Kevin?

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer. But I know I'm not scum, so it's either:

1) You are a drug dealer putting a lynch trend towards a townie so you will have better chances of winning late game (instead of trying to get mafia killed early on, which in late game you will be killed for by the townies).

2) You are mafia pretending to be a drug dealer by posturing as you are certain of your vote so that either a drug dealer or townie gets lynched, thus more chances of winning for you (lynch + NK). You're taking high risks maybe thinking you won't get killed early to ruin your faction's chances since townie will go for the "mafia" kill first before a drug dealer kill.

You can't be a townie since townies won't put a trend vote early on and with such certainty given the lack of information and basis for suspicions. Mere WIFOM cannot be grounds since everyone will be making WIFOM statements to prod discussion and maybe preempt scum actions by reverse psychology. And a townie pretending to be a drug dealer to push mafia into a corner or bait them is too risky since you can be perceived as a genuine drug dealer and will get lynched later on.

So concluding that you can't be a townie (except for a very very small chance), my safest bet would be to vote for you.

Vote: molestargazer

[Narsis]

EBWOP: in my enthusiasm i forgot to mention that mole could also be mafia, but not mafia pretending to be a druggie.