288 replies to this topic

[KevinH]

I'm convinced our best course of action is to lynch a mafia, then lynch a drug lord.

It would be equally acceptable to lynch a drug lord, then lynch a mafia.

when it comes to strategies and calculation, I leave it to Kevin and the gang.

Thank you for the complement!

[captain8track]

captain8track, have you played mafia online before?

Nope. Getting the hang of it. Thanks for the links everybody.



unvote: curufinwe


Not random vote, but pretty close to it-

Vote: molestargazer

Just a hunch so far. Short version: methinks you doth protest too much.
Not exactly iron-clad reasoning. This may be revisited.

[Electric Mango]

I don't agree with this logic.

The random vote thing is fine as even I have done it and will continue to do so in future games. What I disagree with is that you are voting him based on poor judgement in a past game rather than his gamestyle/gameplay. Falzis is still pretty new and I'm willing to cut him some slack while he learns the game (same goes for Cur and captain8track). We have a 50% chance of hitting scum not 57% (cuz everyone else will claim townie anyways). Taking out a townie is not an option given that the ratio is 4:2:2. Lynching is the only power the town has and can ill afford to lynch a townie.

So if I just picked a name out of a hat you would agree?

Also I said "I" have a 57% chance that he is scum. If I know I'm a townie then I have a 4 out 7 chance of killing a scum.

I'm willing to cut Falzis some slack, heck, I even said I admire his courage to believe in himself and not follow for the sake of following.



captain8track, sorry I said "wth" I thought that you've played before. I've seen your name so many times on the forum that I thought you must be a mafia player. I probably got you mixed up with globalfanatic who's avatars is from the same show as yours. Please excuse the harshness

[Falzis]

you just contradicted yourself. you said you never said that he was 100% a druggie. yet you say that he 100% can't be town. which leaves him as being either mafia or druggie. however you also say that he voted you for being scum. thus out of those two scenarios he can only be a druggie if he was voting you as scum.

the only other option is that he is mafia voting you an that he thinks you are a druggie. thats what i think personally. mole thinks you are a druggie due to the breadcrumb. since you throw that he is town out of the window...he must be mafia since he cant be your partner. however in the post i quoted(quoted again below for reference) you only give two scenarios: 1) that he is a drug dealer or 2) that he is mafia pretending to be a drug dealer.

yet neither work for the simple reason that he believes you to be a druggie. if he believes you to be a druggie then he cant be a druggie or be pretending to be a druggie since that's what he's pinning on you.

thus the only option is that he is town.

tl;dr: go back and read it!

Narsis narsis narsis... my dear narsis. Saying that he can't be a townie 100% is not a contradiction with saying he is not 100% druggie as you have proven in your post. He could be a mafia pretending to be a druggie which I've already stated beforehand. Why do misreps abound in this game?

Why can't neither work for the simple reason he believes me to be a druggie?

First question is, is his belief that I am a druggie based on a WIFOM, which I've already explained, an unimpeachable belief? Meaning is this something other people should go by? No because only mole can prove to himself what he believes so I don't get why you believe him more than me.

Second question is, if he believes I am a druggie, why can't he still be a druggie or a pretend druggie? If he is a druggie, he would want to kill a townie first than a mafia so to have better chances of winning later. If he is a pretend druggie, but is really a mafia, he wants to kill a townie and take the risks of being genuinely perceived as a druggie in the hopes that he will be lynched much later in the game, where his faction will have an upperhand.

So how can the only option be that he is town? Because if he was truly townie, it would be an ultimate risk for mole to pretend he is a druggie just to pin a vote on a player he thinks is scum because he will be genuinely perceived as a druggie and he will not be able to change the perception later on and he will die. Townies don't vote for certain at a very early stage of the game. Townies don't risk life and limb for an uncertainty.

Aahh but a new question comes up with your staunch advocacy of mole's logic, which I've already torn asunder along with yours. Why are you singing in unison with mole? Usually I would think you would give me some slack based on a weak WIFOM, which I've done in previous games because I post intuitively my observations spontaneously, but it seems you are concertedly pushing for my demise.

So it's either you are a townie who doesn't believe in me more than mole and are willing to take the risk that I am a townie who will die, since I have "more" propensity to throw the game OR you are mole's partner, whether a druggie or mafia, and pushing for the same agenda as a mole, OR you could be not mole's partner, but you are still scum, and wants to jump along killing an easy picking like me to lessen one townie (or "drug dealer" if you are mafia).

Have you just revealed your alignment Narsis?

[KevinH]

The whole exchange between Narsis and Falzis makes my head spin such that I'm not going to really try to understand it.

However, I think the following logic is wrong.

If he is a druggie, he would want to kill a townie first than a mafia so to have better chances of winning later.

No, a druggie would want the mafia dead so he could get the power to night kill.
Is this a deliberate attempt to mislead?

[Falzis]

Nope it's just more of my alleged "WIFOMs" (previously posted but for sake of clarification I'll repeat it). I know druggie would want to take out Mafia immediately but leave them open to lynch later in a disadvantaged position (since townie would have deduced by then who the druggies were "breadcrumbing" to lynch thus making them druggies once the mafia were dead).

So knowing that we know, they might change strategies and opt for a townie kill on Day 1 so as not to out themselves as druggies very early on (and also protect them from mafia NK).

mole will scream "more WIFOM = scum" after this I bet lol.

[Electric Mango]

The whole exchange between Narsis and Falzis makes my head spin such that I'm not going to really try to understand it.

I second this for the record.

[molestargazer]

Not random vote, but pretty close to it-

Vote: molestargazer

Just a hunch so far. Short version: methinks you doth protest too much.
Not exactly iron-clad reasoning. This may be revisited.

I protest too much when he was the first to protest my vote on him, and has continued to do so, constantly calling me scum?
I don't think so.
Best of luck in your first game, anyway!

I'm willing to cut Falzis some slack, heck, I even said I admire his courage to believe in himself and not follow for the sake of following.

Whilst i'm not willing to cut slack, I will say he certainly isn't playing like the new player he proclaims himself to be.

Before I go back and go through what Falzis has said.. by god, you seem to be pushing hard.

[Falzis]

I say it's fair to protest a vote if it's not random omgforthelulz. I'm not a new "new" player per se but I am a new player relative to you guys. I'm maturing or growing into this game. And I'm articulate... and have lots of time... and take games seriously. So you will see me playing hard and to the best of my current abilities.

If I may brag, I'm relatively new in CN but I was well prepared for this war with nukes, wonders and a good warchest to boot. I learn quickly and try to be better asap. Ok I'm talking too much again.

[CanucksDynasty]

So if I just picked a name out of a hat you would agree?

Also I said "I" have a 57% chance that he is scum. If I know I'm a townie then I have a 4 out 7 chance of killing a scum.

I'm willing to cut Falzis some slack, heck, I even said I admire his courage to believe in himself and not follow for the sake of following.



captain8track, sorry I said "wth" I thought that you've played before. I've seen your name so many times on the forum that I thought you must be a mafia player. I probably got you mixed up with globalfanatic who's avatars is from the same show as yours. Please excuse the harshness

I'd be OK if it was just a RVS.

But you said the following...
As for my initial vote, it's going to Falzis. He didn't follow the plan last game and the town lost. Since everyone has an equal chance of being scum I might as well vote for the person that has a higher chance of throwing a wrench in the town's plans.

To answer Mole's question, my vote on Falzis was a random vote but based off of something I seen from him in his last game(s).

You gave basis for your vote...hardly a random vote...but whatever.

[Narsis]

ok so let's see...

mole could not be pretending to be a druggie because he thinks you are a druggie. although he never actually said it himself, the only faction in this game that would drop the perceived breadcrumb of yours is a druggie. so yes you are right that in my enthusiasm my logic slipped slightly in that mole could very well be a druggie, however he still cannot be a mafia pretending to be a druggie, a druggie pretending to be a druggie, or a townie pretending to be a druggie. why? simply because he is saying you are a druggie. now if he was pretending to be a druggie...what would be the point of using that argument since it would appear he's trying to kill his partner. if he was indeed a druggie, he'd be better off trying to pin you as mafia alone, of which there was little at the time.

so the point is...mole cannot be pretending to be a druggie since he claims that you are a druggie(indirectly). however he could very well be any of the factions.

[Narsis]

EBWOP: I must applaud your deductive reasoning though Falzis. you are definitely getting better at this game...and it would seem very quickly.

[molestargazer]

1st, that WIFOM aka "breadcrumbing" was merely an observation. As in previous games, I like to post the first thing on my head. I'm a very intuitive and spontaneous person. That's why when it comes to strategies and calculation, I leave it to Kevin and the gang.

WIFOM doesn't equal breadcrumbing. Two different things from the same post, hence why I voted you over KevinH.

Falzis, you seem to be placing a lot of emphasis and protesting on this vote which was, after all, not an attempt to get you lynched right now, but a first vote.

3rd, I haven't voted before voting for you. So how could that be breadcrumbing. Again, you're just reeking of illogical contentions.

Didn't know that. But same applies, could be for a partner.

Well then, why did you have to mention that RVS is over? When clearly it wasn't we're just on day 1 of Day 1

I said that to hopefully stop any further random votes. I want to get on with the game, as we clearly are doing now.

Ugh yeah I understand the pressuring or eliciting reaction thing but your vote coupled with an "RVS is over" looks very very suspicious and points me to untownieness on your part.

Uhh.. why?
Saying RVS is over has NOTHING to do with how sure I am of your scuminess.

EVERYONE - I'd love you to read over the whole Falzis/Me debate and give your opinions. It could really help sort this out. Take some time out, it's not that difficult to follow.

First question is, is his belief that I am a druggie based on a WIFOM, which I've already explained, an unimpeachable belief?

I've already stated several times. I am not SURE.

Second question is, if he believes I am a druggie, why can't he still be a druggie or a pretend druggie?

If I were a druggie, it would be incredibly stupid to try and out my partner with such vigour.

So how can the only option be that he is town? Because if he was truly townie, it would be an ultimate risk for mole to pretend he is a druggie just to pin a vote on a player he thinks is scum because he will be genuinely perceived as a druggie and he will not be able to change the perception later on and he will die.

I'm getting a little lost here. Why am I pretending to be a druggie?

Aahh but a new question comes up with your staunch advocacy of mole's logic, which I've already torn asunder along with yours.

And I'm tearing yours back, yet this wasn't acknowledged.

So knowing that we know, they might change strategies and opt for a townie kill on Day 1 so as not to out themselves as druggies very early on (and also protect them from mafia NK).

WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM. Yeah, you're right.
This helps NO-ONE. We don't know what the scum / druggies will do. You can't say you're right, you might not be. We need to find scum. And I'm increasingly believing I've found one. (Scum = Member of an anti-town faction in this context)

The fact you're shouting my scumminess from the mountaintops, all this stemming from a vote on you by me, simply screams of OMGUS.

[Falzis]

Alright but the question is why do you believe him when he says I am a druggie? Because of the weak WIFOM? And if I WERE a druggie, why did I give the WIFOM before I made a vote? So where was the breadcrumbing?

He could still be a druggie pretending to be a druggie because you CANNOT be sure I am a druggie until I am dead so you can't buy hook, line, and sinker mole's stance that I am a druggie. You're cutting mole too much slack Narsis. The logical holes abound in his and your statements. I thought you were more critical than that... unless you're in cahoots with him.

[Narsis]

an interesting thing i just noticed: Falzis keeps pointing to mole being a druggie or pretending to be a druggie. imo he's more likely to be mafia then druggie at this point. so why keep saying he is a druggie or pretending to be a druggie? maybe Falzis is mafia? although the information would point to him being a druggie otherwise so it might be totally off...i'm just throwing it out there but it is something odd.

[Narsis]

Alright but the question is why do you believe him when he says I am a druggie? Because of the weak WIFOM? And if I WERE a druggie, why did I give the WIFOM before I made a vote? So where was the breadcrumbing?

He could still be a druggie pretending to be a druggie because you CANNOT be sure I am a druggie until I am dead so you can't buy hook, line, and sinker mole's stance that I am a druggie. You're cutting mole too much slack Narsis. The logical holes abound in his and your statements. I thought you were more critical than that... unless you're in cahoots with him.

indeed i'm cutting mole slack. mainly because: a) i know him and how well he plays the game, and i think is point/argument is a good one. or at least better then anything i have yet to see.

[Falzis]

It was a second vote mole, after EM's. Too many misreps from you already.

So let me tl;dr your vote on me mole. I gave a WIFOM and a breadcrumb and an OMGUS (btw what's the full meaning of this) vote.

Multiple responses:

1. WIFOM =/= scum. I've done this in previous games and that's just me. Plus, Kevin does it too.

2. Breadcrumb - I couldn't possibly have done it that early if I were a druggie. I didn't vote for anyone yet during RVS. If you say it was for a partner, let's look at the people who voted before my WIFOM. EM for me. Mole for EM. CD votes for Narsis. Curu for captain8track. And captain8track for Curu.

So my partners would either be mole, CD, Curu, and captain. Mafia could be EM, Narsis, Curu or captain. EM can't be a druggie because he voted for me I couldn't be breadcrumbing against myself. Mole could still be a druggie even if we're at each other's throats since I know I'm townie so we're not killing each other's "partner". CD and Curu and captain don't make sense don't it?

So how could I have been breadcrumbing for a partner? >.>

3. OMGUS vote - I'm a reactive person. So sue me. But as more and more posts are made, it's becoming less of an OMGUS vote and more of a "mole could really be scum" vote because of your logical inconsistencies, misrep tendencies, and persistence without reinforcement of your arguments.

Ok mole hammered.

I think I made my case enough against mole. I'm even willing to remove my vote and let others push the vote on mole if they compare our posts.

Unvote

[Falzis]

an interesting thing i just noticed: Falzis keeps pointing to mole being a druggie or pretending to be a druggie. imo he's more likely to be mafia then druggie at this point. so why keep saying he is a druggie or pretending to be a druggie? maybe Falzis is mafia? although the information would point to him being a druggie otherwise so it might be totally off...i'm just throwing it out there but it is something odd.

He most likely could be either because as I've said, I'm an easy picking even for the townies to vote since I'm "more likely to throw this game". Killing a townie on D1 is more advantageous to both scum factions so they want to kill me.

indeed i'm cutting mole slack. mainly because: a) i know him and how well he plays the game, and cool.gif i think is point/argument is a good one. or at least better then anything i have yet to see.

The only basis of his vote was the WIFOM and "breadcrumb". Which I've debunked so many times. How is that a good one? How is that better than anything you have seen? If I die and vindicated, remember it was Narsis and mole dancing the tango.

[KevinH]

EVERYONE - I'd love you to read over the whole Falzis/Me debate and give your opinions. It could really help sort this out. Take some time out, it's not that difficult to follow.

My opinion is that it confuses me. If I have to take a side, it would be for Mole.

For example:

He could still be a druggie pretending to be a druggie because you CANNOT be sure I am a druggie ...

I'm really missing the concept of why anyone would want to claim they are a druggie (whether true or not). It screams "Lynch Me!" to the townies and "Night Kill Me!" to the mafia.

[molestargazer]

1. WIFOM =/= scum. I've done this in previous games and that's just me. Plus, Kevin does it too.

Why do you keep mentioning that KevinH did it too? I'm not going to cut you slack because of it.
WIFOM =/= Scum, but it does = scummy.

2. Breadcrumb - I couldn't possibly have done it that early if I were a druggie. I didn't vote for anyone yet during RVS. If you say it was for a partner, let's look at the people who voted before my WIFOM. EM for me. Mole for EM. CD votes for Narsis. Curu for captain8track. And captain8track for Curu.

So my partners would either be mole, CD, Curu, and captain. Mafia could be EM, Narsis, Curu or captain. EM can't be a druggie because he voted for me I couldn't be breadcrumbing against myself. Mole could still be a druggie even if we're at each other's throats since I know I'm townie so we're not killing each other's "partner". CD and Curu and captain don't make sense don't it?

1) What makes you say that Mafia could be EM, Narsis, Curu or Captain?
2) Why can't CD / curu / c8t be your druggie partner?

3. OMGUS vote - I'm a reactive person. So sue me. But as more and more posts are made, it's becoming less of an OMGUS vote and more of a "mole could really be scum" vote because of your logical inconsistencies, misrep tendencies, and persistence without reinforcement of your arguments.

1) Logical inconsistencies - Where?
2) Misrep - Where I have done so, i have explained why if I was at fault. If there's any I haven't answered, please, point them out.
3) Persistence without reinforcement - I've been reinforcing my case as I've been going through. Your posts are reeking even more of OMGUS, and your WIFOM arguments don't help a jot.

Ok mole hammered.

I'll take that as a joke.

I think I made my case enough against mole. I'm even willing to remove my vote and let others push the vote on mole if they compare our posts.

Unvote

So you no longer believe that I'm scum?
Why would you remove your vote if you still thought I was scum, other than that you're getting uneasy about it?