76 replies to this topic

[Samus]

 

 

I know this has already probably been said, but we cannot simply declare war against a religion. The filth from Nice, France wasn't even Muslim, according to his brother he never went to the mosque or prayed barely ever. The Muslim population outweighs the American population 6.8:1 and America is bigger than all other countries almost, so to battle them, even a percent of their population is just outrageous. We are at war with terrorists, we are constantly battling ISIS which is the Islamic States of Iraq and Syria. NO WHERE in that acronym does it say the Islamic people OR Islam, it says the ISLAMIC STATES. So for you to say we are at war with Islam is just asinine, no offense there's just no better way to put it.

 

The Nice attacker was not religious for most of his life and became completely radicalized during the course of a year or so.

 

When I speak of a war, I do not mean it in the classical sense and I certainly do not mean it as a USA vs Muslims conflict. It's a lot more abstract and a lot more broad than that. It is true that, the dar-al-Islam has bloody borders wherever it interacts with another civilization (if we're not even counting the conflicts with the West, there's Kashmir, the Uyghurs, Chechnya, Palestine vs Israel, Sudan, the Balkans, etc...), but the real trenches (that also divide ascribers to Islam) are between religious reactionaries and modernists. To make matters more complicated the reactionaries themselves are pitted against eachother based on which sect they belong to.

 

There are no clear sides here, but what you see in the ME is the conflict going hot. Too early to call what the end of it all will be, but know that the end-goal of Islamism (which is a political ideology based on the more warlike ideals of Islam) is to see a world united under one theocratric banner or to die trying. Either way, it doesn't look good. My bet is that someone, somwhere in the future will get their hands on a WMD and if they see no way of assuring victory will propel themselves, along with most of humanity to the afterlife.

 

Just to make matters worse, ISIS is not really an organized military, they are a coalition and we have barely any clue who we can talk to. And if we can talk to someone, no one wants to talk to them because of the fear factor they have imposed on the world. Not even their own citizens are safe, it's just tragic what is happening and i guarantee this will last for a long time, even after there is a nuke, or 10 or however many we deem necessary. They will not stop, radical ideas do not just dissolve into society, for example, the KKK is a radical group with radical ideas, yes there's never been any WMD placed upon them BUT, many people are against them but their ideas are rooted in society and will last beyond my lifetime, and I just recently turned 15. Some things never change.

 

 

15?

 

Woah.. 

[D34THBR1NG3R]

5?   Woah.. 

haha yea I've always been up-to-date and had my opinions on recent world events. 

 

 

Just to make matters worse, ISIS is not really an organized military, they are a coalition and we have barely any clue who we can talk to. And if we can talk to someone, no one wants to talk to them because of the fear factor they have imposed on the world. Not even their own citizens are safe, it's just tragic what is happening and i guarantee this will last for a long time, even after there is a nuke, or 10 or however many we deem necessary. They will not stop, radical ideas do not just dissolve into society, for example, the KKK is a radical group with radical ideas, yes there's never been any WMD placed upon them BUT, many people are against them but their ideas are rooted in society and will last beyond my lifetime, and I just recently turned 15. Some things never change.

 

With organizations like ISIS, there is nothing to talk about. Their stated goal is not to end Western meddling in Syria, the freeing of political prisoners, or the recognition as a sovereign state. What they want is to establish a GLOBAL Caliphate by killing or subjugating every non-believer (or people who are not believers enough). The only was to beat them is to win the war of ideas and the actual war itself. This will unfortunately not happen until Islam goes through a grand-scale reformation of its own, but that is unfortunately nowhere in sight. In the mid-2000s muslim theologist Tariq Ramadan a called for a moratorium on the execution of hudud punishments (sins for which the punishment is explicitly stated in the Koran). He spent a better part of a decade trying to convince Imams all over the world to support his motion. The finally put it to vote on a global converence...it failed spectaculaly.

sounds like a cool movie plot

If only we were watching it from a couch instead of being the main actors.

 

 I was in 1-5th grade when that happened so i have no remembrance of that. But i just know that people are crazy and that if we want to end the war, i agree there needs to be a drastic change or somehow we need to take control of the state(s). But all I can say is the world is a crazy place.

[ccabal86]

UPDATE: The real culprit behind the Munich shooter was revealed. VIDEO GAMES! Not just any video game either. COUNTER STRIKE: SOURCE a game so diabolical that it is played "by nearly every known rampage killer".

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/24/munich-gunman-a-fan-of-violent-video-games-rampage-killers-had-planned-attack-for-a-year.html

 

EDIT: I have just one thing to say. Don't worry de Mazaire, it may seem like it, but the train will not actually hit you

 

Edited by ccabal86, 25 July 2016 - 06:42 PM.

[onbekende]

There is as much "peace" in Christianity as there is in Islam, go reread the Old Testament (pro-tip, they both follow it!)

 

Anyway, what we have:

- axe guy: seems most convincing, he is inspired by it.

- MacDonald guy: people lash back at society, no single drop of religion anywhere near this one, heck it is more likely even that he was celebrating somethings 5th anniversary.

- machete guy: last heared its a lovers quarrel.

- suicide guy: mildly inspired, more probably someone threw him a sarcastic line after his second suicide attempt and he went with it due to getting the order to go to Bulgaria (point of EU entry).

 

so what we have, 1 sure, 1 copy-cat, 2 unrelated.

[ccabal86]

There is as much "peace" in Christianity as there is in Islam, go reread the Old Testament (pro-tip, they both follow it!)

Absolutely, and it took us more than a millenia to turn the papacy into pope Francis, and millions died for it. The Jews went under their own reformation. We paid dearly in blood to get where we are today and I'll be damned if I sit by quietoy while Mengela Merkel sells us out to Islamic theocrats.

[onbekende]

...

 

so lets put the lessons we learned from the Enlightenment NOT to work supporting the rest of the world.

 

gotcha

 

...

[ccabal86]

The rest of the world has gone to shit. The Arab Spring was supposed to bring positive change to the ME, turns out there was no popular support for any sort of liberal principles, and instead people wanted theocracies. The EU economy is crumbling and we are falling behind pretty much everyone in military capabilities while tensions heat up everywhere in the world. Meanwhile, climate change slowly turns parts of the world uninhabitable while the population of Africa keeps growing exponentially.

 

The results of the reality check are in: the golden age is over, time to brace for impact. It's every region for itself now.

[Samus]

There is as much "peace" in Christianity as there is in Islam, go reread the Old Testament (pro-tip, they both follow it!)

 

Absolutely, and it took us more than a millenia to turn the papacy into pope Francis, and millions died for it. The Jews went under their own reformation. We paid dearly in blood to get where we are today and I'll be damned if I sit by quietoy while Mengela Merkel sells us out to Islamic theocrats.

 

 

Christians do not follow the old testament, that's an uneducated statement.

 

Christians obey by the rules laid out in the New Testament as Christ had already fulfilled the Old Testament.

 

Read the two, there's a completely different demeanor.

[D34THBR1NG3R]

There is as much "peace" in Christianity as there is in Islam, go reread the Old Testament (pro-tip, they both follow it!)

 

Absolutely, and it took us more than a millenia to turn the papacy into pope Francis, and millions died for it. The Jews went under their own reformation. We paid dearly in blood to get where we are today and I'll be damned if I sit by quietoy while Mengela Merkel sells us out to Islamic theocrats.

 
 
Christians do not follow the old testament, that's an uneducated statement.
 
Christians obey by the rules laid out in the New Testament as Christ had already fulfilled the Old Testament.
 
Read the two, there's a completely different demeanor.

[onbekende]

doom for all o/

 

 

as for the old/new testament, how many christians follow that one aswell? Its mostly just morals that are taken from it, morals that are generally universal (aka ever religion has them).

 

What you got is a few misfits who hijack some radical part and toy with it to suit there narcisism, the real danger is it becoming a tradition (see North Korea).

[ccabal86]

 

There is as much "peace" in Christianity as there is in Islam, go reread the Old Testament (pro-tip, they both follow it!)

 

Absolutely, and it took us more than a millenia to turn the papacy into pope Francis, and millions died for it. The Jews went under their own reformation. We paid dearly in blood to get where we are today and I'll be damned if I sit by quietoy while Mengela Merkel sells us out to Islamic theocrats.

 

 

Christians do not follow the old testament, that's an uneducated statement.

 

Christians obey by the rules laid out in the New Testament as Christ had already fulfilled the Old Testament.

 

Read the two, there's a completely different demeanor.

 

 

Yes, but the Old Testament is still part of the "canon" if you will, otherwise no Christian would argue for "intelligent design" or keep the "ten commandments". It still "valid" for the most part. It is true though that the Bible's main focus is on the New Testament though.

[Samus]

 

 

There is as much "peace" in Christianity as there is in Islam, go reread the Old Testament (pro-tip, they both follow it!)

 

Absolutely, and it took us more than a millenia to turn the papacy into pope Francis, and millions died for it. The Jews went under their own reformation. We paid dearly in blood to get where we are today and I'll be damned if I sit by quietoy while Mengela Merkel sells us out to Islamic theocrats.

 

 

Christians do not follow the old testament, that's an uneducated statement.

 

Christians obey by the rules laid out in the New Testament as Christ had already fulfilled the Old Testament.

 

Read the two, there's a completely different demeanor.

 

 

Yes, but the Old Testament is still part of the "canon" if you will, otherwise no Christian would argue for "intelligent design" or keep the "ten commandments". It still "valid" for the most part. It is true though that the Bible's main focus is on the New Testament though.

 

we don't follow '10 commandments' either, as those were commandments given to the children of Israel, not Christians.

 

might need to educate yourself a little here

[Samus]

as for the old/new testament, how many christians follow that one aswell? Its mostly just morals that are taken from it, morals that are generally universal (aka ever religion has them).

 

 

Not every Christian is a perfect Christian, but don't mistake that all Christians follow the New Testament.

[ccabal86]

we don't follow '10 commandments' either, as those were commandments given to the children of Israel, not Christians.
 
might need to educate yourself a little here

 

Umm, yes you do? At least they are explicitly part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but even if you are not a Catholic, you can look to the Sermon on the Mount:

 

 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17)

 

and continues with

 

 “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (verses 18-19)

 

So yes, unless you follow some really unusual form of Christianity, the 10 commandments are still valid with some "tweaks" here and there

[Samus]

 

we don't follow '10 commandments' either, as those were commandments given to the children of Israel, not Christians.
 
might need to educate yourself a little here

 

Umm, yes you do? At least they are explicitly part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but even if you are not a Catholic, you can look to the Sermon on the Mount:

 

 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17)

 

and continues with

 

 “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (verses 18-19)

 

So yes, unless you follow some really unusual form of Christianity, the 10 commandments are still valid with some "tweaks" here and there

 

 

Well not directly.

 

We don't look at the 10 commandments as the rules that govern our lives. In the New Testament Jesus Christ introduced the commandment to love thy neighbour:

 

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. - John 13:34

 

Which carries the same weight as the 10 commandments and some more, i.e if you love your neighbour you will not steal, etc

 

But it isn't the commandments that were given to the followers of Christ (Christians)

 

That's my own understanding anyhow

[Argus Panoptes]

Shit, I was in Nice with my GF just 2 months ago, walked the Promenade des Anglais every day. Next week I'm in Vienna and after that in the Algarve, knowing there are misguided, frustrated, impressionable individuals on every corner of every street, looking for a reason to unload. All you need is a rented truck or a shank. ISIS provides the perfect ideological motivation and claims every attack is by one of their "soldiers". Meanwhile, Adolf Erdogan is busy with his own expurgation program, recruiting Turkish immigrants across Europe to attack their fellow immigrants.

Aye, we live in interesting times.

[ccabal86]

@Samus

 

To be honest, the text is (unsurprisingly) so obscure that you can interpret it quite a few ways. The majority opinion seems to be that they are still in effect with the tweaks and additions that you also have mentioned.

 

But you at least have the opportunity (and even encouraged) to interpret the texts for yourself. A vast number of Muslims for example believe that even this is forbidden for the common believer, and interpreting religious texts is the privilege of the Ulema

Edited by ccabal86, 25 July 2016 - 11:08 PM.

[Black Rook]

My understanding was the love they neighbour was of a higher order than the commandments.
It's like a flow chart,
Step 1: love thy neighbour
Step 2: see 10 commandments

[Samus]

But you at least have the opportunity (and even encouraged) to interpret the texts for yourself

 

 

I think this is the biggest reason why people get brainwashed so easy. They go into a class, listen to someone preach their own interpretation of the books and declare it as factual, rather than taking in others interpretations and coming to a conclusion with their own understanding.

[Kitkat16]

over the past 300 years, totalitarianism has ravaged practically every nation on the continent (where the Endarkenment flowered), whereas the UK, the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand have a centuries old democratic tradition. give that some thought.