I did not know that the game would end if it was 2 vs 2. I thought that there could be a chance for that scenario to come down to whoever received two votes first would be lynched. I was operating under the assumption that "if two players reach the half majority and have the same number of votes, the first person to receive that number of votes is lynched" rule that is present in my games.

 

But with Kevin's clarification that 2v2 would end the game as a loss, I agree that we need to act today. SLMK is our best bet right now for all of the reasons given earlier.

 

Vote SLMK.

Vote Count:

Supreme Leader MK (3): Lyner, King Hitler, The Warrior,
Lyner (1): Supreme Leader MK,
The Warrior (0):
King Hitler (0):
Canik (0):
Mandarijn (0)
Robert2424 (0)

No Lynch (0):

 

Not voting: Canik, Robert2424, Mandarijn,

 
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch, or 2 at deadline.
Deadline is noon EST on Monday, September 5, 2016
 
Mod note: With our half-majority at deadline rule, The Warrior is correct in that the town could secure a lynch by putting 2 votes on a scum before the scum can put 2 votes on a townie.  However, I don't want the game to devolve to that and hereby make a special rule that 2v2 wins for the scum.

Thank you for the clarification, Kevin.

 

So at this point Canik, Robert, and Mandarijn have yet to vote. What are some of your thoughts?

Current post count for the sake of argument:

 

The Warrior 11 KevinH 9 Canik 8 Supreme Leader MK 6 Robert2424 6 Lyner 6 King Hitler 4 Mandarijn 4

 

I'd like to hear more from the group of people with 6 or fewer posts.

 

-SLMK is on the chopping block currently and should be defending himself and helping scum-hunt if he's town.

-Robert says that two lynches are better than one and that he is leaning towards lynching but has not yet voted. What are your thoughts at this point?

-Lyner insinuated that I was trying to mislead town with the whole 2v2 thing. I defended my line of thinking and Kevin has commented on that and confirmed that it was not an incorrect way for me to think (as a game mod). Lyner has read the thread since then but has not said any more about it.

-@KH : Do you have any further thoughts since your SLMK vote?

-Mandarijn's first post where he asks everyone to give reasons for suspecting people was a good post. He also in that post notes that we should start the real discussion. He votes for SLMK in his second post for some of the same reasons that I have, but he seems to hedge his bet by saying that he isn't sold on him and that his actions could be attributed to this being his first game. He later unvotes for SLMK in his third post citing the reason that he doesn't want the day to end early. Fair enough but then what are you doing to help contribute to the conversation moving forward? His last post just basically comments on the 2v2 discussion.

 

If you guys are town please help scum hunt. There aren't many of us in this game so if even one or two townies are not actively helping we don't stand much of a chance.

I'm actually waiting for SLMK to post, but it seems he won't.

 

Not much has happened actually, it's pretty clear that we have to lynch today and SLMK seems the perfect guy at this moment. I'm still not that convinced, a lot depends on this lynch and it seems to just be going to easy, which could indicate scum is also (indirectly) pushing for him.

 

My other 2 suspects are still KH and Robert. Nothing has happened to change that.

You noted that your reasons to suspect KH and Robert were random guesses. Is that still correct? Are they on your list as a result of gut feelings or does something else cause you to suspect them?

You noted that your reasons to suspect KH and Robert were random guesses. Is that still correct? Are they on your list as a result of gut feelings or does something else cause you to suspect them?

All the others are contributing more, so seem more town to me. Which leaves those 2 + SLMK. But of course all the others are also the most experienced players I think, so they could be playing me.

I currently think we should Lynch day 1. But SLMK is to me rather new and I try not to vote out the new people in hopes they'll stick around for more games instead being one and done sort of thing. So looking at this, the next vote on slmk will result in a Lynch. So I have to wonder how long he will truly stay at l-1 if he's town and scum take there chance's day 2 while quickly ending the day today.

 

TBH lyner confuses me with the way he words stuff. Tw the driving force really and most vocal out of anybody in the game. I think slmk could flip either way, and he's at L-1. Most others don't have too much of decent read on. If TW is scum, we are in trouble as very few wish to challenge him. Mandarin also somebody worth keeping an eye on.

We still have 4 day to get a Lynch, so I'm not in a huge hurry to get a Lynch. But now that slmk is at L-1 who's willing to place the hammer vote, or is someone going to back out in voting for him?

I get why you would want to give new players the benefit of the doubt but if they're scummy, they're scummy. It's fine if we wait a few more days to actually lynch but in the meantime we need everyone to talk. Otherwise there is no point in waiting. Anyone who isn't actively talking and scum hunting will have their suspicion level increased.

Sorry I skimmed through most of page 3. But from what I get its alot of 2v2 discussion and why people are going for lynch/no lynch.

 

Neither has really added anything to my opinions. The 2v2 Mafia wins does solidify why I feel a D1 lynch is better this game. With that, it does bring to light an issue I don't think anyone mentioned. Maybe it's common sense or maybe its been missed. Does Cop come out D2 or do we risk a D3? Can someone do the math for this?

 

The only thing I would like to mention is I feel Canik is avoiding discussing SLMK. If they are both scum, is this his way of trying to stay distant? Lyner and Mandarijn casted votes, which Mandarijn took his off when a lynch got close. However, I don't think that would indicate any scum vibe as he just wanted the day to progress. I don't see TW putting a near lynch vote on the only other scum in the game if he is scum. Again I did skim through most this page so if I missed something, feel free to point it out.

 

Robert on the other hand has mentioned he doesn't want to get rid of such a new player. Not sure how I feel about this. If SLMK flips scum, It'd definitely be something to bring up but it does seem like an excuse. Especially granted most of us in larger games have that mentality to keep the newer guys a little longer, despite how we read them. I don't think a game this small we have that luxury though.

 

FoS Canik and Robert, pending how SLMK flips.

 

If SLMK flips town, I still feel we have a scum on the wagon. Whether Lyner who voted and kept his vote early, Mandarijn for removing his vote (trying to avoid being in the wagon) or even myself for being pretty vocal about SLMK being the lynch we go with.

I want SLMK to give some opinions.

 

Him not speaking anything at this point might indicates that he gave up, which means scum tell.

 

 

I think it's a good time for SLMK to role claim now

I was waiting for more from SLMK too. His last post wasn't very convincing, no one changed their minds afterwards I expected he would post more. Instead he's going inactive the past 2 days, that does make me more suspicious. He was so eager when the game started..

If we still have 4 more days we should take advantage of them though. Lyner is someone I had a little suspicion of since he posted D1 due to this line:
 

Some possible
plans(supposing we mislynch VT on day 1): 1. Cop comes out today and doc
will protect him. Roleblocker will block the cop and the other scum
will kill other people. Could be a mind game where the doc target other
people than cop as well.

He seems like he's trying to help but this was a very bad proposal that may have messed town up had we relied on it since the Mafia could just roleblock the doctor and kill the cop.

If SLMK does turn up town I'd be very wary of Lyner. If anyone is scum on that wagon I would be inclined to bet it's him. KH would be a very close 2nd with how quiet he's been but the post he just made was pretty good. Even tho he threw some suspicion my way, I don't blame him I can see the logic behind it. TW, it was a little strange how he went from knowing we had to lynch by D2 to not knowing but other than that he's been very town IMO.

That would make either Mandi or Robert the 2nd scum. Neither have done much to help. They either don't want to vote for their scum teammate or don't want to be on the wagon if MK's turns up town. Though the same could be said for me I guess, except I've been much more helpful.

Since we still have 4 days left I'm going to put my vote on Lyner maybe that will help stir the pot.

Vote Lyner
 

 

Vote Count:

Supreme Leader MK (3): Lyner, King Hitler, The Warrior,

Lyner (2): Supreme Leader MK, Canik,

The Warrior (0):

King Hitler (0):

Canik (0):

Mandarijn (0)

Robert2424 (0)

 

No Lynch (0):

 

Not voting: Robert2424, Mandarijn,

 

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch, or 2 at deadline.

Deadline is noon EST on Monday, September 5, 2016

OK,I was down internet wise for last 2 days,so I couldn't turn up.

 

Canik's argument that TW can be fishy is probable.

 

My safe bet as scum would be KH,Lyner or TW.

KH cause he is trying to kick the wagon on me quite vocally.

Lyner for earlier reasons and fact that he is posting less by the day.

TW for reason stated above.and for actively supporting KH in his venture on my wagon.

 

 

I can say one thing for certain,I am not a PR.

I can't say I am not scum cause most of you wouldn't believe it even if tried to.

OK,I was down internet wise for last 2 days,so I couldn't turn up.

 

Canik's argument that TW can be fishy is probable.

 

My safe bet as scum would be KH,Lyner or TW.

KH cause he is trying to kick the wagon on me quite vocally.

Lyner for earlier reasons and fact that he is posting less by the day.

TW for reason stated above.and for actively supporting KH in his venture on my wagon.

 

 

I can say one thing for certain,I am not a PR.

I can't say I am not scum cause most of you wouldn't believe it even if tried to.

OK,I was down internet wise for last 2 days,so I couldn't turn up.

 

Canik's argument that TW can be fishy is probable.

 

My safe bet as scum would be KH,Lyner or TW.

KH cause he is trying to kick the wagon on me quite vocally.

Lyner for earlier reasons and fact that he is posting less by the day.

TW for reason stated above.and for actively supporting KH in his venture on my wagon.

 

 

I can say one thing for certain,I am not a PR.

I can't say I am not scum cause most of you wouldn't believe it even if tried to.

OK,I was down internet wise for last 2 days,so I couldn't turn up.

 

Canik's argument that TW can be fishy is probable.

 

My safe bet as scum would be KH,Lyner or TW.

KH cause he is trying to kick the wagon on me quite vocally.

Lyner for earlier reasons and fact that he is posting less by the day.

TW for reason stated above.and for actively supporting KH in his venture on my wagon.

 

 

I can say one thing for certain,I am not a PR.

I can't say I am not scum cause most of you wouldn't believe it even if tried to.

I was waiting for more from SLMK too. His last post wasn't very convincing, no one changed their minds afterwards I expected he would post more. Instead he's going inactive the past 2 days, that does make me more suspicious. He was so eager when the game started..

 

If we still have 4 more days we should take advantage of them though. Lyner is someone I had a little suspicion of since he posted D1 due to this line:

 

Some possible

plans(supposing we mislynch VT on day 1): 1. Cop comes out today and doc

will protect him. Roleblocker will block the cop and the other scum

will kill other people. Could be a mind game where the doc target other

people than cop as well.

He seems like he's trying to help but this was a very bad proposal that may have messed town up had we relied on it since the Mafia could just roleblock the doctor and kill the cop.

 

 

You can do better than this, Canik.

 

First off, your reasoning is wrong, on that particular plan only COP roleclaims, and the doc is to stay hiding. Therefore scum can't roleblock the doc with a certainty.

 

Secondly, you're nitpicking again. Can we have your opinions on the rest of my plans?

 

Anyway you're correct that it's not optimal as scums could decide to roleblock the revealed cop and just random kill another player. Therefore I propose the second plan, nobody paid it a mind though.

 

 

 

Back to the topic SLMK, interesting that he claimed that he's not a PR instead of just outrightly saying he's a Vanilla Townie. Or perhaps I'm just reading too much. Anyway he's a safe choice today, and if anybody have qualms about it he/she should bring it up right now like Canik did.

 

 

OK,I was down internet wise for last 2 days,so I couldn't turn up.

 

Canik's argument that TW can be fishy is probable.

 

My safe bet as scum would be KH,Lyner or TW.

KH cause he is trying to kick the wagon on me quite vocally.

Lyner for earlier reasons and fact that he is posting less by the day.

TW for reason stated above.and for actively supporting KH in his venture on my wagon.

 

I can say one thing for certain,I am not a PR.

I can't say I am not scum cause most of you wouldn't believe it even if tried to.

 

 

I am not actively supporting anyone with my vote on you. I am voting for you because you appear to be the scummiest person to me at this point. All of your actions have cast suspicion on you. 

Well,you seem sort of leaking atm.

But people ain't turning against you for some reason.

 

You can do better than this, Canik. First off, your reasoning is wrong, on that particular plan only COP roleclaims, and the doc is to stay hiding. Therefore scum can't roleblock the doc with a certainty. Secondly, you're nitpicking again. Can we have your opinions on the rest of my plans? Anyway you're correct that it's not optimal as scums could decide to roleblock the revealed cop and just random kill another player. Therefore I propose the second plan, nobody paid it a mind though.

Ah okay, I thought you wanted cop & doc to BOTH roleclaim. Only cop roleclaiming wouldn't be as bad, but still not a great plan since like you said scum could roleblock him and kill someone else.

The rest of your plans:

2. A brave VT pretends to be a cop and follow plan 1 above. Highly recommended to troll the scums.

3. Each of us point out one name we would want to target if we're the

cop, since might be useful for cop's consideration? (I think we did
something like this some past games ago?)

4. Go conventional and hope the doc and cop is a better players than the scums'

2 - Makes more sense now that you clarified Doc would stay in hiding. Could be a really good plan, unfortunately talking about it makes it less effective. If someone claimed cop right after that it would too obvious.

3 - Does seem like this could help a bit and I'm not seeing any drawbacks to it.

4 - This isn't really a plan so much as it is the absence of a plan.

None of that is condemning and plan 3 could be helpful, I think we should do it before the day ends. However it still doesn't confirm you're town though so you'll have to excuse me for 'nitpicking'. It didn't help that after I started criticizing some of it and very little time had passed you said, ""I agree with Manda, there is no need to over analyze this setup and let's start the stabbings."

I get why you would want to give new players the benefit of the doubt but if they're scummy, they're scummy. It's fine if we wait a few more days to actually lynch but in the meantime we need everyone to talk. Otherwise there is no point in waiting. Anyone who isn't actively talking and scum hunting will have their suspicion level increased.

I do agree if somebody dose feel scummy, you should place your vote upon them. I didn't say I wasn't going to end up placing my vote on him after the day is nearing a close, but I don't see time to rush it and I try not to get things too personal in mafia and everybody with a clean slate. So, somebody who's inexperenced I tend to see them lash out in ways experienced players won't. It dose seem that way in this game. 

 

Sorry I skimmed through most of page 3. But from what I get its alot of 2v2 discussion and why people are going for lynch/no lynch.

 

Neither has really added anything to my opinions. The 2v2 Mafia wins does solidify why I feel a D1 lynch is better this game. With that, it does bring to light an issue I don't think anyone mentioned. Maybe it's common sense or maybe its been missed. Does Cop come out D2 or do we risk a D3? Can someone do the math for this?

 

The only thing I would like to mention is I feel Canik is avoiding discussing SLMK. If they are both scum, is this his way of trying to stay distant? Lyner and Mandarijn casted votes, which Mandarijn took his off when a lynch got close. However, I don't think that would indicate any scum vibe as he just wanted the day to progress. I don't see TW putting a near lynch vote on the only other scum in the game if he is scum. Again I did skim through most this page so if I missed something, feel free to point it out.

 

Robert on the other hand has mentioned he doesn't want to get rid of such a new player. Not sure how I feel about this. If SLMK flips scum, It'd definitely be something to bring up but it does seem like an excuse. Especially granted most of us in larger games have that mentality to keep the newer guys a little longer, despite how we read them. I don't think a game this small we have that luxury though.

 

FoS Canik and Robert, pending how SLMK flips.

 

If SLMK flips town, I still feel we have a scum on the wagon. Whether Lyner who voted and kept his vote early, Mandarijn for removing his vote (trying to avoid being in the wagon) or even myself for being pretty vocal about SLMK being the lynch we go with.

Please, no more skimming. 

 

If thats the best you can get with me to make me look scummy, your trying to hard. I've always try to do this. I can only be me 

 

I will admit Canik should talk more about SLMK, he is at L-1. I'm not sure if he's avoiding or he having tunnel vision towards another person. 

 

Well,you seem sort of leaking atm.

But people ain't turning against you for some reason.

Leaking? what is that suppose to mean? also, why did you just put people who are voting for you on your suspect list? Theres only two scum. therefore you seem certain they are both voting for you right now? Do you see any indication or clues that 2 people are on a team and you don't suspect anybody who's not already voting for you? 

 

A wagon has formed on Lyner now. and he's at L-2. I do admit I'm a bit weary of Lyner also, but I have different reasons to suspect lyner. He more like a wild card this game. Even threatening to place pressure on TW witch was very interesting. I honestly don't know what he's going to do next or what he's going to say. 

Never said that you not wanting to lynch SLMK was a scum move, but it is worth noting that if he flips scum, you hesitated to vote him. If it wasn't you in that spot, wouldn't you agree?

 

I feel the same way about lynching new players, but as I stated, I don't believe we can afford that luxury this game.

 

However it still doesn't confirm you're town though so you'll have to excuse me for 'nitpicking'. It didn't help that after I started criticizing some of it and very little time had passed you said, ""I agree with Manda, there is no need to over analyze this setup and let's start the stabbings."

I specifically stated the "nitpicking" part to point out that it is a scummy move from you.

 

The only reason I said there is no need to over analyze since all the plans you guys thought of since I last posted aren't decisive, and at the ends we just end up with "each plans have pros and cons" and Manda the good guy stated the logical conclusion: "in the end it comes down to our discussion and accusations". Totally agreed with that and here we are now.

 

 

Anyway speaking of BAD plans, the one who thought that town is better off mass roleclaiming wass you yourself, Canik

 

 

This seems to

boil down to two options I think. Scenario 1: If we mass roleclaim, it

could narrow down our chances of hitting scum from 7/2 to 5/2, which

aren't bad odds. The only thing is if the scum know who the cop &

doctor are, what's stopping them from roleblocking the doctor and

killing the cop? We would HAVE to lynch today in this scenario, and hope

we got lucky. If we kill the roleblocker then town will almost

certainly win. If we miss, town will almost certainly lose. (Unless

roleblocker can't use his power + the factional kill but I think they

can) Scenario 2: If we don't mass roleclaim then it seems we should not

lynch. For one, if we try to lynch we're just going to force roleclaims

anyway. For two, we won't know who the town PRs are. There is just as

good a chance we hit them as hitting scum. So we no lynch, cop will

probably survive the night and be able to confirm someone's alignment

tomorrow. However he'll only have a 2 in 7 chance of investigating scum

so there's a good chance he'll just be able to confirm 1 town.

Out of the two scenarios, you told us the first one is better? Kind of ironic since you attacked my plan, which is almost identical with yours(worse actually, since you misunderstood my actual plan)

 

FoS Canik

I specifically stated the "nitpicking" part to point out that it is a scummy move from you.

What you call nitpicking, I call investigating. Should we not mention things we find suspicious unless most things they said were suspicious?

 

The only reason I said there is no need to over analyze since all the plans you guys thought of since I last posted aren't decisive, and at the ends we just end up with "each plans have pros and cons" and Manda the good guy stated the logical conclusion: "in the end it comes down to our discussion and accusations". Totally agreed with that and here we are now.

Um, no? At the end we ended up with "Lynching is clearly and decisively better" thanks to the analysis. I agree discussion and accusations are important, which is why I accused you and continued the discussion but we had time for both and the analysis has been helpful. You are spewing revisionist history that borders on straight up lying. People were only unsure early on but now I think everyone agrees we should lynch D1.

 

Anyway speaking of BAD plans, the one who thought that town is better off mass roleclaiming wass you yourself, Canik

Out of the two scenarios, you told us the first one is better? Kind of

ironic since you attacked my plan, which is almost identical with

yours(worse actually, since you misunderstood my actual plan)

 

The problem I had with yours was that it seemed to lead town to believe cop would survive. Which if Doc stayed hidden then he probably would but you were not real clear on that. You also made a point against lynching D1. If we ended up mass roleclaiming + no lynch that definitely would've been bad for town. Or even if cop just claimed and we no lynched.

 

Your remarks left the potential for town to choose a very bad path. My scenarios were detailed, accounted for everything and I show the math behind it. Mass roleclaiming is not a bad idea if you do it right. Mass roleclaiming would immediately increase our chance of lynching scum from 28.5% to 40%, unless a scum tried claiming a town PR but that would make our chances 50/50.

 

You know I was still far from convinced you were actually scum. I just wanted to take advantage of our time and apply some pressure but the dishonest twisting on the analyze has me thinking I may be on the right track. I'll keep my vote where it is for the time being.

 

Oh and -

Back to the

topic SLMK, interesting that he claimed that he's not a PR instead of

just outrightly saying he's a Vanilla Townie. Or perhaps I'm just

reading too much. Anyway he's a safe choice today, and if anybody have

qualms about it he/she should bring it up right now like Canik did.

I didn't bring up any qualms about it.

 

Vote Count:

Supreme Leader MK (3): Lyner, King Hitler, The Warrior,
Lyner (2): Supreme Leader MK, Canik,
The Warrior (0):
King Hitler (0):
Canik (0):
Mandarijn (0)
Robert2424 (0)

No Lynch (0):

 

Not voting: Robert2424, Mandarijn,

 
With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch, or 2 at deadline.
Deadline is noon EST on Monday, September 5, 2016

So tomorrow is the day, SLMK any last words that could help us if you turn up as a townie?