894 replies to this topic

[Electric Mango]

Unvote KevinH
Vote Nerau

With Kevin or Falzis already locked in as one of our candidates for a lynch I thought it would be best to apply pressure to at least one more candidate.

Nerau is usually a lot more active but has remained relatively quiet so far. This is different from his normal playing style. I would like to hear his opinions on what is going on.

[Nerau]

i have only been active in one game the other i simply got replaced early

i wanted to try to play this and it seems time is not something i have to much off

narsis you have my play style since the time i have is lacking i would post more but work seems to be piling up and i have to do that first

as more my opinions i have already stated them as above and nothing has changed since then plus as you say i am fencing sitting since i can't make my mind up, i can't read people for luck of god.

i wish i could make better sense of this all but not enough to push for pressure.

since i do wish for the town i wish to be replaced

i don't have time and i believe all they are going to do is waste a vote

[Nerau]

and please for those who think i am running away just b/c i can't handle the pressure this is not the case

it just took me until this moment to finally realize that i am playing the way i want

[Aquinas]

@Electric Mango
I encourage you to get pressure out their but, I wonder where your vote will go now. I find it a little uneasy that you flip over to Nerau just after Narsis did. Especially without any more justification than you gave.

@Nerau
You confuse me, sir. I am utterly lost in a few lines in those posts.

[Electric Mango]

@ Aquinas: Votes are good for applying pressure. Look what it did to Nerau. I'm not saying that I want Nerau to quit the game but once he got two votes on him it forced him to make a decision. Look at the results it had. I didn't want him to quit but you can't deny that the pressure it created didn't have an outcome on his decison.

Do I think that Nerau is more guilty than KevinH right now? No. I changed my vote because I did not think it was in the towns best interest to have only two people up for debate. With time running out, Nerau was the only person at the time with another vote. I changed my vote to him to help even the score and help make it a decision between KevinH, Falzis, and Nerau.

[KevinH]

I am much more disappointed by KevinH. His post builds no specific evidence to bolster his defense or build a case against Falzis.

I'm sorry to disappoint you. I'll try to do better.

KevinH didn't build the debate, it was all the rest of us

Thank you for that observation.

All of us besides KevinH agree that the no lynch of D1 was a serious mistake. Lets not let that happen again.

If everyone else truly feels that way, it's odd that the one vote needed to lynch Sojourner didn't come on day 1 and that nobody has voted for him on day 2. But I agree that we need to lynch today.

KevinH, I have voted for you because of your inability to defend your position. Falzis presents seriously concerning sentiments for the time being, however he has laid out his position in a clear straightforward manor.

It was anything but clear and straightforward, but I'll address the 4 points.

1. I did not "muddle and distract" the town. I stated early that I was voting for no-lynch. In the end, 3/4 of the players agreed with me. I am glad that we have an extra townie today; the scum wish we would have lynched a townie.

2. I did not "disingenuously edit out a sentence". I quoted a statement that supported my position that not everybody agrees that it is best to lynch on the first day.

3. I did not "role fish". And even if I did, so what?

4. I did vote for Falzis and gave my reasons. That's what we are supposed to do. The post regarding Sojourner was obviously not logically sound because of the WIFOM effect. Adding additional suspicions is not "inconsistent" despite what Falzis may say.

Now having defended myself point by point, I'll address why I did not "build a case" against Falzis. It's simply that I know he could easily be a townie attacking me with the best of intentions. I believe he is as good a lynch candidate as any. However, the game will certainly slow down without his posts and if the group wants to make the case for lynching an inactive rather than Falzis, I won't be too disappointed.

[Kaziocore]

God this sucks! I had this big, nicely worded post done and I lost it. I don't have the will power to do it all again so I'll give you the short version.

We need to find scum

Scum are most likely trying not to post anything that will draw fire

People who post value and challenge people are putting themselves at risk.

We have a lot of people not challenging others or voting

We have a short amount of time left, especially if you figure low activity on weekends. We only have until the 29th.

The only debate going on right now is Kevin/Falzis who ironically are 2 people who have at least added some good value and contributed.

I'm very suspicious of those that have not really made a strong opinion, challenged someone, or voted.

We need to expand our scope to debate more than just Kevin/Falzis.

My vote will stay with Kevin until there is stronger evidence against someone else.

Yes I agree with you. I have a feeling that neither one of them are scum and we are actually gonna murder our active ones.

[Theophilos]

Well I still think Falzis is scum/mafia ...

I just think that, with all us newbies in the game, he's abusing the Mafia wiki implied strategies that supposedly (statistically more so than not) pro town.

Plus the arguments aren't that convincing or convincing at all for that matter.

As for as I can see he's just doing this: I'm a townie, I know I'm a townie, therefore everything I say or do is townie and if you don't like it or agree with it your scum. But he never fails to point out that as a problem if someone else uses the same strategy ... like Kevin for example ...

Again I understand he posts a lot, but ... I never said that was why I suspected him (I only said that that helps to support my opinion if we agree that he uses so many posts to confuse and mislead us townies)!

I'll write more and re-read more this weekend when I've more time

[Falzis]

How many newbies are actually in this game? Because as far as I can tell, only sojo, you and Kaziocore are the newbie ones. I'm not counting party01 since he's not active. So that leaves a lot of veterans for me to convince. And it's not as if you don't have your own reasoning to read the mafiascum wiki and believe or disbelieve what is there.

I'm really sure by now that one of the three people voting for me is scum.

I choose you!

Unvote
Vote: Theophilos

[Theophilos]

I meant that it's much easier to abuse certain strategies that are supposed to be pro town with 4 new players, especially if you can convince them all and than just add 3-4 mafia votes and get a vote. Not there yet, but ...

And it's not as if you don't have your own reasoning to read the mafiascum wiki and believe or disbelieve what is there.

I never said I don't have my opinion or not in regard to what mafia wiki says.

[Falzis]

That's my point. That's why your point is either misleading to portray me as a manipulator or a big WIFOM. I haven't even convinced any "newbie" to my side. sojo hasn't voted for Kevin, you voted for me, and Kaziocore is... i dunno what's up with him.

So your point is not grounded.

[Theophilos]

That's my point. That's why your point is either misleading to portray me as a manipulator or a big WIFOM. I haven't even convinced any "newbie" to my side. sojo hasn't voted for Kevin, you voted for me, and Kaziocore is... i dunno what's up with him.

So your point is not grounded.

Perhaps it is, maybe you confused too many and it didn't work out according to your plans oh, and

[Falzis]

That wasn't my plan to begin with. My plan was to convince everyone, anyone, not just the newbies, that Kevin's strategy has been called flawed by an independent source (not playing this game) for people to decide on their own the merits of Kevin's ideas.

I think it's you who's underestimating and condescending to "newbies" by trying to say they are easily swayed or manipulable.

And again, you're the only one confused.

[molestargazer]

VOTE COUNT
Falzis (3): Martino, Theophilos, KevinH
KevinH (2): Sir Jesus, Aquinas
Nerau (2): Narsis, Electric Mango
Theophilos (1): Falzis

Not Voting (4): sojourner, Nerau, partyin01, Kaziocore

With 12 alive, 7 votes are needed to lynch.

- Sir Jesus is V/LA
- partyin01 is being replaced.
- Narsis and Nerau have requested replacement. Which sucks. I'll get onto it tonight. I have replacements lined up.

[KevinH]

abusing the Mafia wiki implied strategies that supposedly (statistically more so than not) pro town.

Plus the arguments aren't that convincing or convincing at all for that matter.

Thank you for being a voice of reason.

I was feeling lonely in the wilderness (I guess that should be lonely in my padded cell).

[Falzis]

You should never feel alone Kev. Theo was right with you since the start of D2.

[Narsis]

hey now i didn't say i wanted to be replaced quite yet!

for those that don't know: i'll be gone from June 29th to July 12th.

also, since nerau is being replaced...:

Unvote

Vote: KevinH

first, although i didn't vote yesterday, i don't agree with a no lynch strategy. but i do believe that a no lynch is better then a random lynch, which is more or less what we would have had with soj. the same i would assume applies to other non-voters on D1.

second, kevin is right that it wans't him alone muddling discussion. it takes two to tango.

third, when you quoted said sentence, you left out the rest. it's fairly obvious you meant to leave it out. whether you were trying to mislead, i don't know.

fourth, role fishing is generally bad. you risk exposing powerroles, and thus making them targets by the mafia. that and powerroles alone rarely save the game for the town so it's not worth attempting to find them out for the sole purpose of trying not to lynch them.

Edited by molestargazer, 24 June 2009 - 05:21 PM.
My bad. -M

[Falzis]

I'll also be gone from Jul 1-11. And I don't want to be replaced!!

[molestargazer]

Bloody hell. OK.
Depending on how things go, I might just put the game into an extended Night phase for a little while whilst people are going away.

We'll see.

[Electric Mango]

OOC Whatever you say Mole. I trust you'll run the game the best way you can providing the circumstances. If at all possible though, I'd like to keep it going if we can.

IC So I'm a little let down due to the lack of activity. It seems like half of the people are getting a free pass due to lack of activity and two of the people who are most active are up for a lynch. If we had our game threads from the old forum you can go back and see that I have a record going against those who play their cards close to the vest. I hope that activity improves after we get the replacements.

I'm gonna go back and read everything one more time to see if there's anything else I can find. More comments to come.