1108 replies to this topic

[DarkFox]

I think there's already a (couple of) scum on the lynch wagon of Rafay.

 

If that is the case then should we proceed with the lynch or should we try and root out one of the scum first?

Now that the forums are back up again, I'd like to hear some thoughts of people that haven't really chimed in the discussion that's happening right now. I'm looking at you guys @DarkFox

 

 

I explained my reasoning on the vote

 

https://ironcentral.org/community/topic/61645-tw-07-pokemon-mafia-day-3/?p=943913

[Jazzy95]

 

- Jazzy95: Awfully quiet

 

That's because I have nothing to say

[brewersalliance]

why not

[Ali bin Turban]

Too many people "know" Rafay is scum.  Somewhere in the mix is the very definition of bussing.

What do you refer to?

1. So far Brewers said Rafay cannot be Jailer and Atliis agreed. I don't recall anyone else. Do you think any of them be scum?

 

2. People jumping on Rafay right now is no surprise, as no sane scum will defend him. If there was no half majority limit (to end the day), most probably everyone would vote him.

 

3. Do you think scum might have tried bussing Rafay on D2? Why would they do it? Day was already coming to an end. Why sacrifice one of their own on D2 when they could do it on D3? Unless all of the scum were already on the wagon (which is hard to believe) they could easily hammer it. Yet nothing happened.

[Yehom]

So far Brewers said Rafay cannot be Jailer and Atliis agreed.

I think you're underselling this. Atliis doesn't merely agree with Brewers, he claims he can confirm that Rafay is not a jailer, which means that he has a source of his own or else he could just suffice with saying 'I agree with x'. Either that or he's not very careful with picking his words

[Colonel Medved]

Not cool. If you wanted me out, you could've asked me not to play. The deadline has passed. I should've been safe.

 

I'm so lost, this doesn't even make sense. You already had enough votes for the deadline lynch, so regardless you wouldn't have been safe... (6 votes, 5 for deadline according to MK's post)

 

 

 

This is exactly the moment town loses. Mark my words. 

 

 

You said during the last day. Instead of repeating the same thing like a broken record, why don't you add to the conversation? I still find it hard to trust you based off of the random vote for Samus, which would be reckless since you have no proof of him being scum, and i'd like to think that the jailor would want more facts before possibly lynching a townie. 

[Lord MK]

Too many people "know" Rafay is scum. Somewhere in the mix is the very definition of bussing.

3. Do you think scum might have tried bussing Rafay on D2? Why would they do it? Day was already coming to an end. Why sacrifice one of their own on D2 when they could do it on D3? Unless all of the scum were already on the wagon (which is hard to believe) they could easily hammer it. Yet nothing happened.

What if scum started the bussing D2, but didn't want to do a lynch on D2. Then on D3, they could jump into his wagon without suspicion.
No one suspects you much if you were in the wagon the day before too.

[KevinH]

Seeing as he has been so cryptic and the power role that would have been most effective in stopping a kill has been removed and he didn't die when he said he had a power role this really helps me decide.

it doesnt matter who he says, he is lying.  I can confirm 100% that he is not the jailor.

I can confirm he is not jailor.

I'm sold for the day with this vote, unless something pops up.

Based on that, i think you're lying about your role.

Vote: Rafay
just so in case i forget

Scum:
- Rafay

 

At what point was it overwhelmingly likely that Rafay would get lynched? After that point, scum will try to distance themselves.

I think that point was when Brewersalliance posted that "100% that he is not the jailor".

The townie thing to do is to lynch Rafay. The scummy thing to do is also to lynch Rafay.

[Ali bin Turban]

 

So far Brewers said Rafay cannot be Jailer and Atliis agreed.

I think you're underselling this. Atliis doesn't merely agree with Brewers, he claims he can confirm that Rafay is not a jailer, which means that he has a source of his own or else he could just suffice with saying 'I agree with x'. Either that or he's not very careful with picking his words

 

Maybe that was confusing, but for me "Agreed" meant that he had to had his own source of information. Perhaps "confirmed" would a be better world.

[brewersalliance]

Too many people "know" Rafay is scum. Somewhere in the mix is the very definition of bussing.

3. Do you think scum might have tried bussing Rafay on D2? Why would they do it? Day was already coming to an end. Why sacrifice one of their own on D2 when they could do it on D3? Unless all of the scum were already on the wagon (which is hard to believe) they could easily hammer it. Yet nothing happened.

What if scum started the bussing D2, but didn't want to do a lynch on D2. Then on D3, they could jump into his wagon without suspicion.
No one suspects you much if you were in the wagon the day before too.

Which is exactly what I suspected you of doing. Funny when I said it was what you did, you refuted that as making no sense but now you are saying that is something scum would do to hide without detection

So far Brewers said Rafay cannot be Jailer and Atliis agreed.

I think you're underselling this. Atliis doesn't merely agree with Brewers, he claims he can confirm that Rafay is not a jailer, which means that he has a source of his own or else he could just suffice with saying 'I agree with x'. Either that or he's not very careful with picking his words

Maybe that was confusing, but for me "Agreed" meant that he had to had his own source of information. Perhaps "confirmed" would a be better world.

Atliis is a new player, so perhapse he can clarify what he meant- Hopefully without roleclaiming but if it would require him to roleclaim he should just leave it where it is

[Rhizoctonia]

 

Seeing as he has been so cryptic and the power role that would have been most effective in stopping a kill has been removed and he didn't die when he said he had a power role this really helps me decide.

it doesnt matter who he says, he is lying.  I can confirm 100% that he is not the jailor.

I can confirm he is not jailor.

I'm sold for the day with this vote, unless something pops up.

Based on that, i think you're lying about your role.

Vote: Rafay
just so in case i forget

Scum:
- Rafay

 

At what point was it overwhelmingly likely that Rafay would get lynched? After that point, scum will try to distance themselves.

I think that point was when Brewersalliance posted that "100% that he is not the jailor".

The townie thing to do is to lynch Rafay. The scummy thing to do is also to lynch Rafay.

 

 

 

Agreed, once Brewers came out that Rafay couldn't be a jailer the scum knew the jig was up.  Not saying they'll jumped instantly on it, as some may have talked in the chat asking if they should jump on the wagon, but the vote on Rafay is not really telling in my eyes of actual sides, as both town and scum will all be part of the wagon.  

 

 

 

 

Too many people "know" Rafay is scum. Somewhere in the mix is the very definition of bussing.

3. Do you think scum might have tried bussing Rafay on D2? Why would they do it? Day was already coming to an end. Why sacrifice one of their own on D2 when they could do it on D3? Unless all of the scum were already on the wagon (which is hard to believe) they could easily hammer it. Yet nothing happened.

What if scum started the bussing D2, but didn't want to do a lynch on D2. Then on D3, they could jump into his wagon without suspicion.
No one suspects you much if you were in the wagon the day before too.

Which is exactly what I suspected you of doing. Funny when I said it was what you did, you refuted that as making no sense but now you are saying that is something scum would do to hide without detection

 

 

So far Brewers said Rafay cannot be Jailer and Atliis agreed.

I think you're underselling this. Atliis doesn't merely agree with Brewers, he claims he can confirm that Rafay is not a jailer, which means that he has a source of his own or else he could just suffice with saying 'I agree with x'. Either that or he's not very careful with picking his words

Maybe that was confusing, but for me "Agreed" meant that he had to had his own source of information. Perhaps "confirmed" would a be better world.

Atliis is a new player, so perhapse he can clarify what he meant- Hopefully without roleclaiming but if it would require him to roleclaim he should just leave it where it is

 

 

 

He said he can confirm it, at this point I don't think it really needs to be elaborated on this day.  No need to force a RC today when he have a likely scum, unless he has evidence of another scum as well to tell us.  Can always push/pressure it another day.  


As I mentioned earlier, I'm still reserved about both Samus and Kevin.  

 

 

Also want to note, could he of voted Samus D1 because he was fearing being lynched at the end and Samus is a scum partner?  He had to know his vague and rather zero reason to suspect Samus wasn't going to push a lynch on Samus, but if he called him out right before he's lynched would maybe distance Samus from scum ties.  That same question could also go for Kevin.  Could Kevin in fact be a scum partner, for which Kevin could claim "i can't confirm or deny," in case Rafay's RC didn't hold up, and also give town points to Kevin if Rafay came up scum, again helping to distance Kevin.

[brewersalliance]

some people have been very quiet so far... looking at you @Samus....

[KevinH]

There are many roles that could disprove Rafay's claims. (Some would prove he's innocent so those are not so likely)
Ascetic,
Bodyguard,
Bulletproof,
Commuter,
Cop,
Cupid,
Doctor,
Enabler,
FBI Agent,
Flavor Cop,
Follower,
Framer,
Friendly Neighbor,
Godfather,
Goon,
Gunsmith,
Hider,
Innocent Child,
Jack-of-All-Trades,
Jailkeeper,
Jester,
Mafia Encryptor,
Mason,
Miller,
Motion Detector,
Neapolitan,
Neighbor,
Neighborizer,
Ninja,
Nurse,
Nymphomaniac,
Role Cop,
Roleblocker,
Rolestopper,
Serial Killer,
Strongman,
Super Saint,
Tailor,
Tracker,
Traitor,
Universal Backup,
Vanilla Cop,
Vigilante,
Vanilla Townie,
Vengeful,
Voyeur,
Watcher,
Watchlisted Townie,
Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie

I almost hate to bring this up, but maybe he is a Jester, which is a role that wins if they get lynched.  It almost seems like he's trying to get lynched.

 

[brewersalliance]

I almost hate to bring this up, but maybe he is a Jester, which is a role that wins if they get lynched.  It almost seems like he's trying to get lynched.

 

I did not even realize Jester was listed in the roles.  That would be one bad stroke of luck though if he is-the player that doesnt ever help town and always acts like scum just so happens to get a role where if hes lynched he wins, and everyone has the tendency to want to lynch him. Every game ive played, he has played this way, so I dont think he is trying hard to get lynched, I think this is just his play style, which if he is Jester, it would fall perfectly into his lap.   Either way, if Rafay gets a win, he gets a win.  I doubt the game would end with a Jester win, im sure it would just be a joint win with whatever faction gets the win too.  I have never seen the Jester in a mafia game (though the role seems way to easy in the mafia game to get a win, which is why I have doubts that it is included) but in TOS the Jester was always a joint win, and I do not see why it would be any different here, especially considering how easy it would be to win with the role.

 

  Guess we could ask TW for clarification for a Jester win

 

@TW without confirming the existence of the role, if a Jester win were to happen, would the game end right away with just the Jester winning, or would the game continue and there would be a joint win.

 

 

either way though, Rafay needs to be lynched as the odds of him being a Jester are slim to none.  And not gonna lie while sure its a slim slim slim possibility, if Rafay flips scum, id be fairly suspicious of KevinH.  Rafay just so happened to claim he jailed KevinH, who in turn said he cannot refute the claim (what are the chances of that being just random luck?  low I bet) and now KevinH is saying Rafay might be a Jester, which in turn could lead us to reconsidering his lynch.  And all this is coming after multiple people agreed scum would not try to defend Rafay and scum would try to lynch him, so it gives him cover to do this 

[Lord MK]

Jester is third party.
So it has no effect on the game when it wins.

Kevin put out a statement saying that he can't neither accept nor deny Rafay's claim, because if he did either, that would be indirect indication that Kevin is a PR. Which he obviously don't want to do, so early in the game.

"KevinH is saying Rafay might be a Jester, which in turn could lead us to reconsidering his lynch."

How does it lead the town to reconsider his lynch?
Even if jester wins, town's or mafia's win conditions are not affected.
So it's not game over for anyone. If Rafay is indeed jester and is lynched, good for him. That's it.

[Lord MK]

At this point, i am not sure whether to believe Brewers. I am now getting skeptical of him.
He is being too involved.
Since Rafay is done and dusted, i am thinking of removing my vote on him and shifting it elsewhere, especially the no lynch zone.

[brewersalliance]

Jester is third party.
So it has no effect on the game when it wins.

Kevin put out a statement saying that he can't neither accept nor deny Rafay's claim, because if he did either, that would be indirect indication that Kevin is a PR. Which he obviously don't want to do, so early in the game.

"KevinH is saying Rafay might be a Jester, which in turn could lead us to reconsidering his lynch."

How does it lead the town to reconsider his lynch?
Even if jester wins, town's or mafia's win conditions are not affected.
So it's not game over for anyone. If Rafay is indeed jester and is lynched, good for him. That's it.

The only point of saying that Rafay might be Jester is to make people reconsider voting for him.  Lets say Rafay is Jester and we lynch him and then its a joint win eventually.  Who cares?  Cause town can still win.  So by saying he could possibly be Jester and not scum, with no evidence to back it up only benifits the scum faction.  It does nothing to help town except possibly get people to not vote Rafay 

 

Also, Kevin did not in any way do what you are saying he did.  Here is what he said

 

I didn't try to do any actions so I can't confirm whether Rafay jailed me or not.

Nevertheless, he is at the top of my suspected scum list.

 

 

Kevin explicitly said he did no actions.  

 

At this point, i am not sure whether to believe Brewers. I am now getting skeptical of him.
He is being too involved.
Since Rafay is done and dusted, i am thinking of removing my vote on him and shifting it elsewhere, especially the no lynch zone.

 

 

Your actions this entire game make no sense.  You go from d2 voting Rafay and stating u think hes scum, then D3 voting him, then I said I think you tried busing d2, and you say that strategy makes no sense, then later you say scum might buss d2 and vote d3 on rafay to look more town, and now you are defending KevinH and then trying to paint me in a scummy light, pretty much ever since I called out Rafay.  That is compleltly pointless.  Cause if I am lying, Rafay's death will prove it, and everyone will know I am scum, therefor I will die.  The only point of you doing that and saying what you are saying is to try to get other people to think I am lying now and to save Rafay, which in turn, would cause the scum to have an extra player for at least one more day, therefor increasing the scums chance of winning.

 

I will be voting for you tomorrow, assuming I survive the night

I didn't try to do any actions so I can't confirm whether Rafay jailed me or not.

Nevertheless, he is at the top of my suspected scum list.

 

[brewersalliance]

I mean let's really think this through. If I'm lying, I am scum. Which means I would be committing suicide to get rid of rafay. And in turn, it would mean Atliis is also lying so he would be scum too. Therefore multiple scum would be committing suicide to kill one townie, which is Rafay.

In what universe does that even make sense?? Even if you try to twist this as "me saying it because I'm scum and I want you guys to believe me" guess what? When rafay dies me and atliis would still be outed.

I will honestly be surprised if MK is town, because his actions from a town perspective make nearly 0 sense to me.

By the way, if your sole reason for saying I'm making this up is that I'm active, then that is utterly insane lol I'm sorry you don't like that I'm being active with the discussion and wanting to make sure everything anyone says is scrutinized

[Rafay]

fay needs to be lynched as the odds of him being a Jester are slim to none.  And not gonna lie while sure its a slim slim slim possibility, if Rafay flips scum, id be fairly suspicious of KevinH

 

But I'll turn up townie and then everybody should very well vote for you if they are right in their heads. 

[Lord MK]

I will be voting for you tomorrow, assuming I survive the night

Oh yeah?
then let's end this.
Unvote
Vote: brewersalliance