166 replies to this topic

[Lysistrata]

The deal was paper thin to begin with and had no framework to even try to enforce a "you made us declare on you" speech. Even a nuclear NK would still just play its own game on its own turf, don't disturb something you can't contain. Any reckless actions means SK gets the brunt of the push-back, and NK doesn't need "WMD" for that! My warmongering comment should speak for itself, same with a now funny claim that Trump made ISIS go away (kinda like all those other things Trump has miraculously returned I guess...) And now suddenly Kim is a puppet of his own regime is he? Then why did your bigshot have a talk with him anyway? Perhaps Pompeo can go ask that this week when he travels to NK.

After a year and a half of underestimating Trump, you still have no understanding that he doesn't do anything the same way as any previous President. It doesn't matter how many haughty know-it-all's that want to compete for the primetime first to declare Trump has really screwed up this time, or he's just out of his depth on this one, you just have to understand that it doesn't matter to him how thin you believe the deal is... he made the deal with him, and now it's personal. If Kimmy screws Donald Trump, Kimmy will die... and then Trump will be re-elected. We really like strong Presidents that keep their promises, it's been a long time since we had one.

[onbekende]

 

The deal was paper thin to begin with and had no framework to even try to enforce a "you made us declare on you" speech.

Don’t you get it Betsy? It’s not what’s written on the paper that matters. It’s what Trump believes is written on the paper. Also, you’re a Belgian Socialist, that makes you auto-lose the argument.

 

 

Clearly, and it is alread clear that Trump is fickle as hell.

 

pffft, I am more a liberal/christian democrat in Belgium. Thou offcource the metric is totally off against USA on that

 

 

The deal was paper thin to begin with and had no framework to even try to enforce a "you made us declare on you" speech. Even a nuclear NK would still just play its own game on its own turf, don't disturb something you can't contain. Any reckless actions means SK gets the brunt of the push-back, and NK doesn't need "WMD" for that! My warmongering comment should speak for itself, same with a now funny claim that Trump made ISIS go away (kinda like all those other things Trump has miraculously returned I guess...) And now suddenly Kim is a puppet of his own regime is he? Then why did your bigshot have a talk with him anyway? Perhaps Pompeo can go ask that this week when he travels to NK.

After a year and a half of underestimating Trump, you still have no understanding that he doesn't do anything the same way as any previous President. It doesn't matter how many haughty know-it-all's that want to compete for the primetime first to declare Trump has really screwed up this time, or he's just out of his depth on this one, you just have to understand that it doesn't matter to him how thin you believe the deal is... he made the deal with him, and now it's personal. If Kimmy screws Donald Trump, Kimmy will die... and then Trump will be re-elected. We really like strong Presidents that keep their promises, it's been a long time since we had one.

 

 

Who said anything about underestimating, heck probably half the world is overestimating him at this point.

 

"The deal" was a "we should talk and work out further talking/planning of X/Y/Z" type deal. If Trump takes it personal that Kim goes against his perceived "faith of the deal" stuff, Kim should be first to be annoyed cause Trump blew him off before...

 

Yes alot of his promises have been held, which isn't hard when they go "will undo X that Obama did", has he actually done something new? Or are we taking these tariffs as something new?

[Lysistrata]

Yes alot of his promises have been held, which isn't hard when they go "will undo X that Obama did", has he actually done something new? Or are we taking these tariffs as something new?

The President cannot create new law, he can only enforce existing law. Enforcing existing law is treated like something new every day by Democrats and their media friends, because the previous President didn't enforce existing law for 8 years, and not enforcing existing law became the new normal. They are shocked and mortified when a President comes along and actually does what he says he will do.

 

Pretty much everything Obama did was done by Executive Order, and can be undone by a new Executive Order. This is how it was so easy for Trump to virtually erase the entire Obama Presidency from history with the stroke of a pen. A President that does everything without Congress is a President that will be soon forgotten, and history will probably mark him as the entire reason for the Trump Presidency. It's Barack Obama's fault we have Donald Trump... that's rich.

 

The left claimed a scalp they have wanted for the last year and a half. Scott Pruitt was amazingly effective at dismantling the Progressive power base known as the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA had been corrupted into an unfettered and unrestrained behemoth of ultimate power, impervious to challenge, and sheltered from oversight. Scott Pruitt killed it. But, Mr. Pruitt was a little unfettered and unrestrained as a person, which made himself an easy target. Democrats are not often careful of what they wish for... they got Scott's resignation... but now they have Andrew Wheeler. Mr. Wheeler will be more effective than Scott, and Mr. Wheeler does not carry the name, or baggage, of Mr. Pruitt. Thank you for your service, and the resignation Scott!

 

Yes, the tariffs are a very new thing. No previous President had the nuts to do this. It's so new, no one knows what to expect. I hear it's a dangerous move, but I also hear... if it works, it will be another economic explosion. More pressure on Congress to do something about immigration... we will need more people to fill all the jobs.

[Yehom]

Trump doesn't have the balls to actually go to war, calling that right now. What would that so called war even be based on? The fact that the US and NK signed something that has for all intents and purposes no actually meaning expect we talked about our days and shook hands afterwards. What did people actually expect when that piece of paper was signed? That Kim was going to destroy all his nukes and call it a day? Even if that was the case, what do NK have to gain from it? All that Trump did was boast about what he had accomplished that day, but never did he mention what he had to give in return. So either Trump didn't accomplish anything that day which means he doesn't need to give something in return, or he made a deal with NK and his end of the bargain is something that he can't possibly bring back home to his followers. Given the fact that NK is just proceeding like nothing happened, you'd probably guess which one applies. 

[Lysistrata]

Trump doesn't have the balls to actually go to war, calling that right now. What would that so called war even be based on?

Opinion noted. Other famous quotes... "He'll never run", "He'll never get the nomination", "He'll never be President", "He'll destroy the economy"... there are many others that are less innocuous, or still up in the air at this point, but you get the idea. Going to war with North Korea would be the easiest part because we are still at war with North Korea. The war has never ended. I'll give you a hint on how it would go down… Within the first few minutes the border forces would be eliminated and all power and communications would be disabled. Then the fun begins. Keep in mind that Trump only gives the order... execution would be from Secretary James Mattis.

All that Trump did was boast about what he had accomplished that day, but never did he mention what he had to give in return.

What did Trump give in return? I saw a meeting where Little Kimmy signed an agreement. In Trumps mind, it's considered he signed it in blood. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. He postponed some war games that cost a lot of money, are completely unnecessary, and are only done to intimidate North Korea. I see no concessions at all.

[Yehom]

Within the first few minutes the border forces would be eliminated and all power and communications would be disabled.

Worked a treat in Iraq right, or Afghanistan? Funny thing is that this time the nation in question can actually bite back with nucleair weapons, so that's the exact same moment that a nuke lands on US soil. If you think that things are fixed so easily, why in the last 70 years haven't the US done it sooner and before you blame it on previous presidents, why not even in the last few years? But nucleair warfare is fun right. You've also completely neglected the fact why 'you' are still at war with NK. NK is still backed by China and Russia and given it's geological position, they aren't going to back out any time soon. The situation is delicate, it has been for 70 years, yet your president is willing to throw that all away after that puppet show? I doubt that. Storming into a room claiming to solve a conflict which isn't really a conflict anymore, yet storming out of the room blowing up said conflict. It's a bit ironic, but it's telling that he's willing the relinquish an existing standstill in the conflict. 

 

 

 

I saw a meeting where Little Kimmy signed an agreement. In Trumps mind, it's considered he signed it in blood. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

You saw Kim sign an empty promise, which could be signed in blood, sweat and tears if you want but both parties are holding up their end of the bargain probably, i.e. nothing. Trump just claims all the things that are in the agreement, but can he actually reproduce said agreement so we can all see what has been agreed on? Highly doubt we'll see that, so his sheep will just follow whatever he claims is in the agreement, because there is no way he'd lie about it right? No way a politician would ever lie about these things, that's absurd. 

[onbekende]

 

Yes alot of his promises have been held, which isn't hard when they go "will undo X that Obama did", has he actually done something new? Or are we taking these tariffs as something new?

The President cannot create new law, he can only enforce existing law. Enforcing existing law is treated like something new every day by Democrats and their media friends, because the previous President didn't enforce existing law for 8 years, and not enforcing existing law became the new normal. They are shocked and mortified when a President comes along and actually does what he says he will do.

 

Pretty much everything Obama did was done by Executive Order, and can be undone by a new Executive Order. This is how it was so easy for Trump to virtually erase the entire Obama Presidency from history with the stroke of a pen. A President that does everything without Congress is a President that will be soon forgotten, and history will probably mark him as the entire reason for the Trump Presidency. It's Barack Obama's fault we have Donald Trump... that's rich.

 

The left claimed a scalp they have wanted for the last year and a half. Scott Pruitt was amazingly effective at dismantling the Progressive power base known as the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA had been corrupted into an unfettered and unrestrained behemoth of ultimate power, impervious to challenge, and sheltered from oversight. Scott Pruitt killed it. But, Mr. Pruitt was a little unfettered and unrestrained as a person, which made himself an easy target. Democrats are not often careful of what they wish for... they got Scott's resignation... but now they have Andrew Wheeler. Mr. Wheeler will be more effective than Scott, and Mr. Wheeler does not carry the name, or baggage, of Mr. Pruitt. Thank you for your service, and the resignation Scott!

 

Yes, the tariffs are a very new thing. No previous President had the nuts to do this. It's so new, no one knows what to expect. I hear it's a dangerous move, but I also hear... if it works, it will be another economic explosion. More pressure on Congress to do something about immigration... we will need more people to fill all the jobs.

 

 

Either side is to blame for no governing, you folks are so entranched in a "50%+1 rules all" mantra that nearly any kind of cross-party legislation doesn't eve leave the printer of an individual representative's office.

 

The EPA is the thing that tried to keep you from polluting yourself into a health crisis (hello coal mining), perhaps consider thinking about the mission before you shout about some singular overreaches.

 

The tarrifs aren't new, you can practically set your clock to a depression coinciding with it (either one or the other envoking eachother). Like the last time you guys tried it. Funny note to this is Trump's reaction to Harley Davidson's move of EU sold (US build) motors to outside the US was to reference their 2017 sales numbers drop on how much the company was now (2018, post tariffs) less favored by US costumers. Someone explain cause and effect to him...

 

 

 

Going to war with North Korea would be the easiest part because we are still at war with North Korea. The war has never ended. I'll give you a hint on how it would go down… Within the first few minutes the border forces would be eliminated and all power and communications would be disabled. Then the fun begins. Keep in mind that Trump only gives the order... execution would be from Secretary James Mattis.

 

 

I distinctly recall Mattis not being so cheery about prospects of open warfare with NK. You can try to shock & awe the border all you want (which they would see coming, kinda obvious such a build up...) but it would still mean a bombed Seoul. If you don't mind millions of civilians dead cause your leaders pride got ruffled, by all means move to Seoul.

[Lysistrata]

You've also completely neglected the fact why 'you' are still at war with NK. NK is still backed by China and Russia and given it's geological position, they aren't going to back out any time soon. The situation is delicate, it has been for 70 years, yet your president is willing to throw that all away after that puppet show?

Oops... you let the cat out of the bag. I never knew if you were in the USA, or not... so I never knew if you were a Trump hater, a resistance Democrat, a Bernie Socialist, a Republican Never Trumper, or just another guy in another country that just hates the USA. I now know it really doesn't matter, your opinion means much less to me, and the only thing that would make a difference is if you're in North Korea. Afghanistan was a problem, but Iraq was easy. The mistake Bush really made... besides going there in the first place... was staying there to build a nation.

You saw Kim sign an empty promise, which could be signed in blood, sweat and tears if you want but both parties are holding up their end of the bargain probably, i.e. nothing.

See above. None of this is your business. We will be fine, and we'll take care of it, as we always do.

[ccabal86]

You heard it here guys. You don’t agree with Trump = you hate the USA. Also, Iraq was easy.

[Lysistrata]

You heard it here guys. You don’t agree with Trump = you hate the USA. Also, Iraq was easy.

Yes Iraq was easy. Saddam folded like a bad poker hand. Staying was stupid.

 

As long as we stay in, and keep paying for, the United Nations... as long as we stay in, and keep paying for NATO... as long as we join the Paris Climate Accord... as long as we stay in, and keep paying for lopsided trade deals... and as long as we remain obedient and compliant Global Citizens and allow ourselves to continue being Earths' doormat... well then everyone loves us. That sounds pretty boring and I expect better from my life, so forget that mess.

[Yehom]

Wow ad hominem argument, I honestly somehow expected more from you Lys.

[Lysistrata]

Wow ad hominem argument, I honestly somehow expected more from you Lys.

Sorry to disappoint you. I would take the same position if I was debating U.S. Immigration policy with a German.

[ccabal86]

You do realize this is exactly the same kind of attitude that you can see on the far left? The “you’re not a member of <insert underprivileged group here>, therefore you cannot have a valid opinion on matters concerning them” argument. It’s a logic that entrenches people in their own little foxholes and shuts down any hopes of discourse and therefore the chance to solve problems.

It’s also wrong, because like it or not, the world is interconnected to a point where we are all stakeholders in matters of global trade and security. Issues in these fields concern us all

[onbekende]

You heard it here guys. You don’t agree with Trump = you hate the USA. Also, Iraq was easy.

 
Very black & white, but then again he does seem to invoke strong emotions (from either camp).
 

 

You heard it here guys. You don’t agree with Trump = you hate the USA. Also, Iraq was easy.

Yes Iraq was easy. Saddam folded like a bad poker hand. Staying was stupid.
 
As long as we stay in, and keep paying for, the United Nations... as long as we stay in, and keep paying for NATO... as long as we join the Paris Climate Accord... as long as we stay in, and keep paying for lopsided trade deals... and as long as we remain obedient and compliant Global Citizens and allow ourselves to continue being Earths' doormat... well then everyone loves us. That sounds pretty boring and I expect better from my life, so forget that mess.

 

 
Yes steamrolling is easy, don't think I would disagree on that. Just the tadbit of an issue that you leave the smouldering hole that was previously a nation completely hating you. Such back and forth sentiments have been shown thruwout military history, the conqueror (even on good intentions) always gets the boogeyman epithet from the locals.
 
And here comes the "MAGA" ideology crap. Somehow the US lost its "top of world" title and you folks are getting it back. Still unsure where this ludricous notion came from and doubtfull we could even try to explain to you why you are currently losing more soft power then ever before.
 
Also lopsided trade deals? You can't have positive trade balances with all your partners, it would mean that you are creating wealth out of thin air, then again you guys like your economical bubbles...
 
 

You do realize this is exactly the same kind of attitude that you can see on the far left? The “you’re not a member of <insert underprivileged group here>, therefore you cannot have a valid opinion on matters concerning them” argument. It’s a logic that entrenches people in their own little foxholes and shuts down any hopes of discourse and therefore the chance to solve problems.

It’s also wrong, because like it or not, the world is interconnected to a point where we are all stakeholders in matters of global trade and security. Issues in these fields concern us all

 
shhhhh, snowflakes don't like hearing other snowflakes!
 
And the world is only getting more interconnected.

[Lysistrata]

You do realize this is exactly the same kind of attitude that you can see on the far left? The “you’re not a member of , therefore you cannot have a valid opinion on matters concerning them” argument. It’s a logic that entrenches people in their own little foxholes and shuts down any hopes of discourse and therefore the chance to solve problems.

I'm trying to understand the conflation of the attitude of the far left with my own. Sorry, I don't see it. I care more about the political opinions of Californians than I do the political opinions of anyone from any other country. Californians are Americans, and they have skin in the game. What they do, and how they vote, effects me, my family, my state, and my country. Canada can think they have something to do with it all they want... Mexico, France, Britain, Germany, and Japan can think it too... I don't care. At the end of the day, we Americans are the ones who decide what we do.

 

If I had my way, and if I was the one calling the shots, I would sever all ties with every country. I would then renegotiate and reaffirm our relationships… one at a time, so everyone knows where everyone stands on every issue, and everyone knows what is expected from those relationships. The penalties for not holding true to those agreements would be severe, swift, and lasting. I doubt very seriously that anyone on the far left has an attitude like that. I am a full card carrying member of Trump's "America First" coalition.

[Yehom]

Ironic isn’t it, because that’s exactly what Kim has done. Not so different after all I guess

[Lysistrata]

Ironic isn’t it, because that’s exactly what Kim has done. Not so different after all I guess

Irony has little to do with it. The biggest difference is also the biggest fact. Trump does have a bigger button, and it really does work. Kimmy should stop listening to China, denuclearize, take the peace deal, become a rich man of the world, and live to an old age.

 

I don't know if there is any truth to the rumor... but I do recall hearing something about an old wire recording recovered from Nagasaki in 1945. It was a faint voice that said "Ironic, that's exactly how we feel".

[onbekende]

And in this thread, Lys wants the US to become libertarian.

[Lysistrata]

And in this thread, Lys wants the US to become libertarian.

Strange you should say that. If the Libertarian Party actually became strong enough to win, I would support them. If there was a blind questionnaire taken of all American voters, everyone would be utterly shocked that the vast majority would discover they are actually Libertarians. The reigning American values of liberty, individual responsibility, self governance, freedom to be me, and freedom to be you, has been lost in an ocean of hatred, regulations, political correctness, envy, identity division, social media bullies, judicial activism, and lies.

 

I don't know what will solve it, but it will take something very big. A second Civil War would solve it, but I doubt very seriously if the left would push that far... they would get their ass kicked.

[onbekende]

Sure everyone wants to be a Libertarian, few could actually life like one and I doubt many would survive it to boot >_>

 

The entire (concocted) conflation of common decency with political correctness into some weird scary "SJW" idioticy that nearly nobody actually upholds just makes the entire mess a giant clusterfuck of talking past eachother while fundamentally being normal human beings with roughly equal stakes and motives.