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The Coronavirus


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#261
onbekende

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Yeah, I'm starting to feel that we collectively fucked the world economy for something that is only marginally worse than the flu. Certainly not worth the economic damage.

A giant asterick to this notion is the fact that under flu you got a near 100% infection rate while this virus might have hit only 10% of the population (some places more, some places less). Other side offcourse is that with the flu you can get vaccinations, this virus doesn't have that mitigating effort, yet.

 

I did hear a speculation that Eastern Europa's subdued outbreak might be because TBC vaccination still happens mandatory and with it a booster to the patients lung functioning. Offcourse correlation is not been established yet.


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#262
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Well, with the flu vaccinations there is always the caveat that it very often is a different strain that comes than the one you got the shot for.

 

As for the relative success of Eastern Europe in dealing with this...That's a bit of a mystery. All circumstances indicate that COVID should hit these countries harder than Western EU countries, as we have significantly worse healthcare systems and by and large, lower life expectancy (a.k.a an unhealthier population). Maybe the TBC vaccination has something to do with it, but my cynical reading is that there are fewer people here that are "at risk", simply because most folks with serious preexisting conditions are dead already, even without COVID.

 

What's really suspicious to me is that there seem to be reports that the virus was present in Europe (e.g. France) as early as November 2019, in fact I'm pretty sure that I myself caught this as early as December 2019 and then my wife early March (anecdotal, but symptoms totally check out as a mild variety of COVID in both our cases), it's just that nobody was testing for it at the time. So what gives, how come there was no apocalypse across Europe then? We've all heard the stories where a single individual at a restaurant infected tens of people in a few hours, of course we only ever know because we are testing for it and make a big deal out of it. Then there is the fact that counting COVID fatalities is an absolute patchwork of practices that varies from country to country and often little distinction is made of victims that died OF COVID instead of WITH COVID.


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#263
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A relevant article concerning the higher death rates: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

 

Something to consider.


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#264
onbekende

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Well, with the flu vaccinations there is always the caveat that it very often is a different strain that comes than the one you got the shot for.

 

As for the relative success of Eastern Europe in dealing with this...That's a bit of a mystery. All circumstances indicate that COVID should hit these countries harder than Western EU countries, as we have significantly worse healthcare systems and by and large, lower life expectancy (a.k.a an unhealthier population). Maybe the TBC vaccination has something to do with it, but my cynical reading is that there are fewer people here that are "at risk", simply because most folks with serious preexisting conditions are dead already, even without COVID.

 

What's really suspicious to me is that there seem to be reports that the virus was present in Europe (e.g. France) as early as November 2019, in fact I'm pretty sure that I myself caught this as early as December 2019 and then my wife early March (anecdotal, but symptoms totally check out as a mild variety of COVID in both our cases), it's just that nobody was testing for it at the time. So what gives, how come there was no apocalypse across Europe then? We've all heard the stories where a single individual at a restaurant infected tens of people in a few hours, of course we only ever know because we are testing for it and make a big deal out of it. Then there is the fact that counting COVID fatalities is an absolute patchwork of practices that varies from country to country and often little distinction is made of victims that died OF COVID instead of WITH COVID.

 

I'd first like to adjust my statement, Belgium is at 5% infection rate.

 

To go with that, I'd like to note that this virus isn't as infectious as the flu, atleast not in general. Sure a grouping in close proximity for an extended time might mean that 1 person infects the entire group, but for now it seems we averaged at 3 to 5 infections per infected at the height of this pandemic. It lies in the trade-off of being a more severe virus but being less infectious.

 

Indeed various nations have had the virus during the intial stages, they just never really took hold due to the low infection rate, coupled with perhaps "smart" people being infected who stayed at home to ride it out.

 

As for Eastern Europe, I'd venture a guess that also wealth worked in your advantage, less people going abroad on vacation, even less to dangerous places. And of the people who could go, they tend to self-isolate in their social circles, which are also better monitored on health concerns as they can easily afford a doctor and/or medications. Heck has there been any news/testing to find out the total carriers of antigens in your nation?

 

Still, the "second wave" might still hit, and hit hard. I'd have serious doubts about you having contracted, and passed, the virus. Group immunity is a far flung utopia and who knows what an actual full spread will do to a nations health services.

 

A relevant article concerning the higher death rates: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

 

Something to consider.

The hurricane deaths not linked to actual wind, so to speak.


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#265
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As for Eastern Europe, I'd venture a guess that also wealth worked in your advantage, less people going abroad on vacation, even less to dangerous places. And of the people who could go, they tend to self-isolate in their social circles, which are also better monitored on health concerns as they can easily afford a doctor and/or medications. Heck has there been any news/testing to find out the total carriers of antigens in your nation?

 

Still, the "second wave" might still hit, and hit hard. I'd have serious doubts about you having contracted, and passed, the virus. Group immunity is a far flung utopia and who knows what an actual full spread will do to a nations health services.

They did a testing on a representative sample of over 10k people and have found that somewhere between 1,1%-0,27% have gone through an infection at some point with is not much at all.

 

As for my possible infection... I work in the absolute center of Budapest, and I go out to eat lunch at one of the fast casual restaurants every day (very popular with tourists). I pass by a large groups of Chinese sightseers on a daily basis, in fact, I go to this Chinese restaurant every week or other week, that is also always full of Chinese tourists. I could easily have caught it very early.


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#266
onbekende

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Definatly a possibility indeed. Thou be carefull, thusfar being post-infection doesn't mean you aren't infectious, various levels of antigens have been reported. It hasn't been verified, nor has it been debunked, so stay cautious.


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#267
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Sorry, it's been a while.  Hope all of you and yours are dong well.

Been really busy moving in my new home.

We just finished moving the last of the furniture in today.  Ended up renting a truck to get the last of it.  It took me a while to find a place to get one.   I got a F-350. All I can say is thanks be to god, I never bought one for my day to day driving.  I put 47 Km on the damned thing, and burned 44 L of gas.

I'm back to work on Monday.

Not sure what the Hell is going on.  I'm in a training unit.  There might not be any courses running.

We were briefed that courses will only be run with the CO's approval.  The restrictions are formidable.  If Covid rips through a course, the CO will hang. 

We are thinking that we'll be moved back to half days until the we get more information.

We are also expecting another shut down in October-November when the second wave hits.


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#268
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Vaccine by late October

https://www.msn.com/en-us/Health/medical/cdc-coronavirus-vaccine-guidance-to-states-advises-them-to-be-ready-bylate-october/ar-BB18E0fJ?li=BBnba9O&pfr=1


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#269
ccabal86

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The article literally says “The scenario documents do not necessarily mean a vaccine will be available by late October.”

However, this is a good sign, we need these vaccines to be ready ASAP.

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#270
onbekende

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Russia already has a vaccine, get your President to ask Putin to spare a few...


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#271
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Russia already has a vaccine, get your President to ask Putin to spare a few...

prolly did!  That's why 'e don't wear a mask!!!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

... you do know sarcasm when you read it right?  Anyway, "I" thought I was funny, but I've "A" sense of Umor  :D


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#272
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These vaccines are already known to work. They're already mass producing millions of doses for distribution. It's all about procedure, and who makes the money right now. Russia released their vaccine because they wanted the money.

 

Trust me... Democrats will try to delay the release as long as possible. They are desperate because they are running out of people to test... they want to keep those numbers up so they can keep the country down. Yes... they are that bad.


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#273
onbekende

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Yeah millions upon millions of batches of vaccines are being crafted, mostly continued work from influenza vaccine basis. Why you suddenly think the process that usually takes years can suddenly be done in months while not ignoring any scientific nor health benefits or dangers. Well, some fine people among us might call these people "marks".

 

The moment you start thinking your opposition is out to kill you in ever more convoluted ways of conspiracy nested in conspiracy, you have lost your mind. We talking about shadows now? :D


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#274
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Well, some fine people among us might call these people "marks".

I don't know how your entire comment matters to anyone, but I will correct this one small portion...

"Well, some fine people among us might call these people "Marxist". 


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#275
ccabal86

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Betsy, If you knew the first thing about Karl Marx is that his central thesis was a case for expedite vaccine research. It's plainly outlined in Das Kapital. Maybe you should read once in a while, DUH.


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#276
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Looks like it's gonna be Pfizer by the end of October...

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/8/pfizer-ceoalbert-bourla-best-guess-well-know-effic/


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#277
onbekende

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Well, some fine people among us might call these people "marks".

I don't know how your entire comment matters to anyone, but I will correct this one small portion...

"Well, some fine people among us might call these people "Marxist". 

 

 

So Marxists are people ignoring scientific best practice and normal health precautions? Don't think the anti-vaxxers in the USA would like your definition :D

 

Betsy, If you knew the first thing about Karl Marx is that his central thesis was a case for expedite vaccine research. It's plainly outlined in Das Kapital. Maybe you should read once in a while, DUH.

 

Nonesense, his central thesis was unrestrained capitalism, why else would he call his book "Das Kapital"!

 

End of october they hope to get premission for emergency usage (which for a vaccine is sketchy to begin with on a small scale, see Ebola) but there full Stage III trials last until may 2021.

 

Heck if Pfizer gets a good one rolling (still to see, he is going of results from in-vitro Stage II tests) we belgians should storm their manufactory, seeing as it is in Belgium :D


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#278
Lysistrata

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Pfizer is done with the first 30,000... looking to juice another 14,000 just to make sure.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/pfizer-proposes-expansion-of-late-stage-coronavirus-vaccine-trial/ar-BB18XYeh?ocid=uxbndlbing&pfr=1

 

"The one word that terrifies Democrats... Vaccine" - Mark Levine


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#279
ccabal86

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Pfizer is done with the first 30,000... looking to juice another 14,000 just to make sure.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/pfizer-proposes-expansion-of-late-stage-coronavirus-vaccine-trial/ar-BB18XYeh?ocid=uxbndlbing&pfr=1

 

"The one word that terrifies Democrats... Vaccine" - Mark Levine

You continue to link articles, but it doesn't seem like you're actually reading them. This is still a third stage trial, NOT the production phase for mass-distribution. Again, a direct quote from the piece:

 

 Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said earlier this month that the pharmaceutical company could have results from its late-stage trial as soon as October. On Saturday, the companies reiterated the possibility that they could have data reflecting whether the vaccine is effective or not by the end of October. However, it could take longer to collect enough data to determine whether the vaccine is safe, because it will take months of follow-up work to determine what kind of side effects, if any, the vaccine may cause.

 

So as much as everybody wants this to go as quickly as possible, mass disdtribution of a vaccine will - by all rational estimates - fall to next year.


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#280
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It's called "Operation Warp Speed". Phase 3 is the last phase before final approval. They know it already works. My guess is the final approval will take about 24 hours. They have been mass producing millions of doses, in advance, because they already know it works. I don't know how they will deal with it in your country... remember, the USA withdrew from the WHO, because they lied for China.

 

I will not be getting this vaccination. Covid-19 is not nearly as bad as it's been sold. I want this vaccine released ASAP as a big STFU to any, and all, whimpering babies that are using this weak virus to keep the country down to boost their political agenda.

 

Our stupid Governor, Steve Sisolak, has had our entire state under a mask mandate for months. I got a special mask just for his stupid ass... it's says "This mask is as useless as our Governor".


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