1469 replies to this topic

[junkahoolik]

why do i feel lost now?? what plane crash??

Someone hasn't read the flavour text! -Mole

VOTE COUNT
Narsis (1): CanucksDynasty
crazyemolad (1): angel of doom

Not Voting (11): Narsis, Junkahoolik, Electric Mango, KevinH, Firkked, Sir Jesus, crazyemolad, Falzis, Kaziocore, Aquinas, Martino

Edited by molestargazer, 27 October 2009 - 11:32 AM.

[KevinH]

Since there are 13 of us and 8 locations to which we can each spend the night, maximum spread would give 5 locations with 2 players and 3 locations with 1 player. If the cop or doc is stuck in a location with only 1 player, they won't be effective. I propose we leave 2 locations empty and have 5 locations with 2 players and 1 location with 3 players.

[angel of doom]

that sounds good

[Narsis]

hmm...so like section 4 with 3, section 1 with 2 and section 9 with 2? or something similar.

come to think of it that would definitely narrow down suspect lists and the like. i'm assuming of course that section 4 and 1 aren't connected as well.

MOD: just to confirm but are section 4 and 1 connected?(and likewise 6 and 9)

No.

also i would like to hear why EM FOS'd Aquinas and Kevin...

Edited by molestargazer, 27 October 2009 - 01:58 PM.

[Firkked]

I'm all for finding out the nuts and bolts of how the map works, I'm not sure that having people follow a pre-determined strategy can benefit the town over scum (eg anytime scum know where to find town it makes their job easier).

If a strategy for placement comes into discussion later that is obvious, brilliant and definitely works in favor of the Town I will change my opinion, otherwise I feel a maximum spread strategy may confuse more than help.

This is due to the connectedness of the map. A max spread would still give scum access to 3-5 people depending on the area.

Breaking up into groups where the scum can't move would help, if there were no pro-town power roles (eg agreeing to stay in only areas 1,4,7 and 8 as they are not connected to each other and scum couldn't move to any other group as they would be 2 moves away).

This is why I'm not convinced on a strategy for where people go for the night, other than being in areas 4 or 6 gives you the most areas to move to/from (good for scum, bad for town).

Also, EM - reasons for FOS?

[junkahoolik]

i was asking actually what other plane crash... seems like everyone played the game before.... but actually, nvm.

mole, are areas 2 and 3 as well as areas 7 and 8 connected??

Please pay attention, I've already answered this. -Mole

Edited by molestargazer, 27 October 2009 - 02:32 PM.

[Narsis]

doing some quick math:

if we want to limit the ability of power roles as much as possible(not really a bad idea for the first night) then splitting into areas: 2, 3, 7, and 8 in groups of 3 and one of 4 will mean that whoever dies must have been targetted by someone in their section, greatly narrowing down the suspect list. although we do limit what pro-town power roles can do consider:

1) they likely won't have someone in particular they want to target(or won't mind picking someone else)

2) there will be little to no additional limitations of who they can target nor would there be any less information available to them.


so at least for night one(and probably night two as well) i think that our best move is to split into groups of 3 and 4 spread out over sections 2, 3, 7, and 8.

[CanucksDynasty]

Since there are 13 of us and 8 locations to which we can each spend the night, maximum spread would give 5 locations with 2 players and 3 locations with 1 player. If the cop or doc is stuck in a location with only 1 player, they won't be effective. I propose we leave 2 locations empty and have 5 locations with 2 players and 1 location with 3 players.

Locations that should be empty should be #4 and #6 since they are adjacent to 3 areas instead of 2 like the rest.

[CanucksDynasty]

doing some quick math:

if we want to limit the ability of power roles as much as possible(not really a bad idea for the first night) then splitting into areas: 2, 3, 7, and 8 in groups of 3 and one of 4 will mean that whoever dies must have been targetted by someone in their section, greatly narrowing down the suspect list. although we do limit what pro-town power roles can do consider:

1) they likely won't have someone in particular they want to target(or won't mind picking someone else)

2) there will be little to no additional limitations of who they can target nor would there be any less information available to them.


so at least for night one(and probably night two as well) i think that our best move is to split into groups of 3 and 4 spread out over sections 2, 3, 7, and 8.

Good idea...we can severely limit the target of mafia that way.
I'm in favour of this strategy.

So would a no-lynch be a good idea in this scenario then?
If mafia lynches at night...the suspect pool would be reduced to a either 2 or 3 people (given your scenario).

Unvote

[Narsis]

depends. splitting into groups of 2 and 3 and leaving 4 and 6 empty would essentially split the town into groups of 6, 7, 4, and 5 depending on who dies. grouping into sections 2, 3, 7 and 8 however limits this to groups of 3, 3, 3, and 4. last i checked 3-4 is less than 4-7. thus it would narrow down the search much more effectively to group into sections , 3, 7, and 8.

also, if we split over the entire map in groups of 1s, 2s, and 3s...it is possible to have groups of 5-6. not really as good at narrowing things down, but gives us full coverage of the map.


the way i see it it all comes down to: do we want to figure out what the map benefits are or do we want to take advantage of splitting into smaller groups to narrow out the scum? imo scum hunting is more desirable then any benefits we might get.

even so...it might not hurt to spread out for night 1 and get an idea of what there is out there.

[Narsis]

EBWOP: didn't notice CD's reply before i posted:

no lynch? tbh i think that would be a bad idea. you should know that the information we gain from VCs and the like is as useful as anything we might get from the night.

[CanucksDynasty]

depends. splitting into groups of 2 and 3 and leaving 4 and 6 empty would essentially split the town into groups of 6, 7, 4, and 5 depending on who dies. grouping into sections 2, 3, 7 and 8 however limits this to groups of 3, 3, 3, and 4. last i checked 3-4 is less than 4-7. thus it would narrow down the search much more effectively to group into sections , 3, 7, and 8.

also, if we split over the entire map in groups of 1s, 2s, and 3s...it is possible to have groups of 5-6. not really as good at narrowing things down, but gives us full coverage of the map.


the way i see it it all comes down to: do we want to figure out what the map benefits are or do we want to take advantage of splitting into smaller groups to narrow out the scum? imo scum hunting is more desirable then any benefits we might get.

even so...it might not hurt to spread out for night 1 and get an idea of what there is out there.

I'd rather scum hunt than look for items that may or may not be of some use.
Assuming we are in the air for at least 2 nights...we can search all the rooms.
N1 - rooms 1, 4, 7 ,8
N2 - rooms 2, 3, 6, 9

I also think that items picked up would be randomly assigned as non-townies would probably also have a chance to pick these items up as well.

[CanucksDynasty]

EBWOP: didn't notice CD's reply before i posted:

no lynch? tbh i think that would be a bad idea. you should know that the information we gain from VCs and the like is as useful as anything we might get from the night.

In a normal setup that is true.

But if we go with your strategy...if mafia nightkills...we significantly narrow the suspect pool down to 2 or 3 people.
And if no nightkills happens...we have one night where a cop has investigated and no loss to the town.

[angel of doom]

unvote

i agree that 2 3 7 and 8 would be our best bet for the first few nights, also please please please lets not get into the day 1 lynch no lynch argument again

[Narsis]

actually that would work very well me thinks. over the course of two nights we could figure out more or less what benefits are out there(of course anti-town could lie about a benefit) while still narrowing down the list. i think we have a winner. at least imo.

as for them being randomly assigned...yeah i would figure as much as well. even so assuming one lynch and one nk per day...we could have all the scum more or less figured out by the end of night 2, and at the very least 1 or two.

so the question now is...how do we choose who goes where?

imo the first couple people could choose of their own free will between the four sections until one is full (2 or 3 or 4 people) in which we say no more. and if someone joins a full section, we eye them very heavily...

and some mroe ponderings:

MOD: will the person be told what benefit they got regardless of whether it comes into play or not?

Yes.

Edited by molestargazer, 27 October 2009 - 03:32 PM.

[Narsis]

EBWOP: stop posting when i'm typing!

as for the lynch-no lynch debate...i don't see any harm int his case. in normal games yeah it's kinda obvious we want to lynch first, but CD does make a good point. the thing that makes me...worry...is that we are letting the mafia control how we get our information. sure we narrow down a list...but the mafia chose who dies and thus who it gets narrowed down too. and what happens if mafia choose not to nk? then information is withheld entirely from us!

i believe that combining the information from a lynch with that of an nk would be very beneficial at determining who is scum and who isn't.

[CanucksDynasty]

EBWOP: stop posting when i'm typing!

as for the lynch-no lynch debate...i don't see any harm int his case. in normal games yeah it's kinda obvious we want to lynch first, but CD does make a good point. the thing that makes me...worry...is that we are letting the mafia control how we get our information. sure we narrow down a list...but the mafia chose who dies and thus who it gets narrowed down too. and what happens if mafia choose not to nk? then information is withheld entirely from us!

i believe that combining the information from a lynch with that of an nk would be very beneficial at determining who is scum and who isn't.

Yeah...but I just have a feeling that if we go with this strategy...I highly doubt mafia will do a nightkill while we are in the plane.

I have no problem with doing a lynch as we get info for the later stages of the game.
Which will be needed when the plane crashes.

[Narsis]

heh i have the same feeling.

[CanucksDynasty]

EBWOP: stop posting when i'm typing!

as for the lynch-no lynch debate...i don't see any harm int his case. in normal games yeah it's kinda obvious we want to lynch first, but CD does make a good point. the thing that makes me...worry...is that we are letting the mafia control how we get our information. sure we narrow down a list...but the mafia chose who dies and thus who it gets narrowed down too. and what happens if mafia choose not to nk? then information is withheld entirely from us!
i believe that combining the information from a lynch with that of an nk would be very beneficial at determining who is scum and who isn't.

Presuming that mafia will not perform a nk since it will indicate there is a mafia among the small group of 3 or 4 (which would be reduced to 2 and 3 if nk happens)...by not lynching...we get the cop info during the night.

Basically no lynching is "follow the cop" strategy.

The only control mafia would have at this point would be to try to influence the lynch (by voting or not voting for the lynch candidate).

Does that make sense?

[Narsis]

heh yes. and i understand why it would work.

but what if there isn't a cop? tbh i'm generally against a "follow the cop" strategy until we know there is a cop out there.

another thing: what happens in a game where the mafia can't nk and lynches continue? in almost every game the mafia is going to lose. by treating the day as a usual game and taking advantage of the map to limit or prevent mafia from nk'ing at all we could fairly easily win.