1125 replies to this topic

[Theophilos]

Also Theo, let's see your character claim.

 

My name is Ned ... Dr. Ned.

[killgor]

 

Absolutely not. I'd rather die than see a doc counter claim. Caught scum claim doc or cop all the time to try to draw out the real doc or cop. This is SUPER anti-Town.

 

i assume that the same goes for the cop right? well then, i have no idea what you were expecting to find. i mean, if it was a scum claiming cop or doc, but didn't want the real cop/doc to claim, you took a really big chance. how big? i'd do some math to show you how big but maybe another time, when i'm in the mood for numbers.

btw, were you expecting theo to lie about his role ? cause he did reveal who he targeted with his night action. and it wasn't the dead person. and you can't really say we didn't tell you (multiple times i might add) that almost everybody has some sort of ability. and knowing that 2 scum targeted the dead person, you would have been left with only (probably) 2 chances of finding scum, the 7
remaining players being townies who did something (i hope i got the number of remaining players right, morning maths isn't my thing)

 

 

Also, a lot of people were wrong about Kevin. He was scummy. Why should I be singled out?

you're not the only one. but since you're under the lens right now, everything you did comes back to haunt you.
 

Obviously. It is not, however, impossible for that many people to ACT scummy in a game, yourself included. If you weren't mod confirmed I'd have serious
doubts about your alignment based on statements and gameplay. Here's the thing; it isn't scummy to be wrong. If I knew who the scum were, this
game would be easy. The only way for me to FIND the scum is to point out things that are scummy about individual posts, question it, and hope
for a slip. I don't apologize for a single accusation I have made as each one was absolutely warranted.

 

you weren't just wrong. being wrong is calling someone scum, lynching him and seeing that you're wrong. you were a manipulator. you bluffed about your role, got everybody to talk only about your bluff, you were never really planning to commit yourself to anything but the bluff you just decided to go with.
 

 

CoD hasn't been posting. Robert strikes me as a noobish follower. Lyner hasn't done anything scummy. Yet. So what's your point? Have you acused
anyone of being scum and been right? No? Okay, then.

 

 

does anyone need to do something scummy when the town is in so much confusion?
 

 

 

Nope. I played a gambit. Gambit =/= lying. Motivation is everything. A lie would be to say something that wasn't true then not owning up to it. OR
saying something that wasn't true and getting CAUGHT be untruthful. I could have just gone the rest of the game or until I was NKed with
people [like killgor] thinking I was a tracker.

 

 

you bluffed. a gambit is something designed to give you an advantage. in your case however, even if theo isn't the doctor, since you'd have expected the real doctor (and quite possibly the cop) not to claim, i fail to see what advantage you were hoping to gain. a bluff however is when you go all in with a pair of 2s and on the ground there's a possible high straight flush missing only a card. which is pretty much what you did.

 

Just Theo, actually. Through my gambit.

perhaps you're not familiar with the cause/effect concept. you claim something, the immediate effect is to gain attention from everybody, provided the claim is strong enough.
 

 

 

I
gave as much of a role claim as was necessary. If you really need to know? I'm Imhotep. The mummy. I'll let the scum figure out if I'm bp or not.

 

 

i hope they do...
 

 

Well, that's true of everyone but yourself, right? Which goes to show that as a Townie you should be suspicious of EVERYONE. Which is why your
"point" about me calling so many people scum is silly and, frankly, hypocritical.

 

 

what Helix said.

 

IF Theo is the doctor, I'm only partially to blame. As Theo admitted himself, he could have and should have handled that better IF he's the doctor.

theo had 2 options. either call your bluff or cave in. now if he called it, with so many people having roles around here (you most likely being one of them), he'd have taken a really big chance. now if he said he had a different role than he has, either you, another player or the actual user of that role could counterclaim. also there is that "wait, you don't have a night action/ability? that's odd" conversation we could go into if someone claims that.

 

Put yourself in my shoes for a second. You randomly accuse someone of having a night action based on their position on a wagon. Suddenly that person admits to having a night action. Would you NOT want to pursue that?? Don't be ridiculous. Of COURSE you would. And if you claim you wouldn't then you are doing it wrong.

 

i am. let's see, i randomly accuse someone of having a night action. he said he targeted someone else, not the dead guy. now at this point, after the chances are scum dropped by half (it takes 2 people to target someone twice, and i'm assuming there's 2 more mafia) , i have the option to drop it since there's still a possible cop, a possible doc, a possible roleblocker, a possible watcher and a possible tracker.hmm... out of the 8 remaining possible people seems like a 1/4 chance of catching mafia and a 5/8 chance of him being townie. and that's assuming both remaining mafias have abilities/used their abilities. cause if they haven't, it doesn't really put them in danger if they call you a liar.

 

 

There's a chance Theo is Town. There's a chance Theo is a doctor. I'm not betting the farm on it. That said, if he *IS* a doctor, the scum know
who he is now and will kill him tonight. No point in pursuing that avenue any further until we wake up and find him alive tomorrow. If he's
alive tomorrow? THEN we have more to discuss.

Killgor, on the other hand, has been just anti Town enough and in the right position on the Kevin wagon to at least warrant some pressure. If you lynch me
today? Look at him tomorrow.

 

 

i believe everything i did yesterday i did to prove my towniness. i thought someone was lying and i decided to gamble my life on it. so i
announced that i am willing to throw the hammer vote and take upon me the consequences of that gamble. now gambling is something serious that you should do when the reward is fitting.

case 1. if i was the sk, if i lost the gamble i'd have lost the game. period. if i won, the rewards would have been a dead townie, maybe a dead mafia, but if it was a dead townie it would have been probably a townie with a weak role. i don't think it would have been worth it.

case 2. if i was part of the mafia, if i'd have lost i'd prolly still have 2 colleagues to win the game for me, unless i had a extra objective to
accomplish. ('till now it's maaaybe worth it?) anyway, the rewards would be again a dead low rank townie or maaaaaaaaaaaybe just maybe the sk. (that sk sounds mighty juicy, but at a 1:10 chances not really worth it imo).

 

anyway, in either of these cases, i could have just sat quite comfortably with the vote that placed him on L3 and waited for someone else to throw the hammer. so i ask you, how loud do my actions speak?

 

 

 

You are acting like Theo is a confirmed Town Doc. This is nonsense. Are you saying all I have to do is claim Doc or Cop and magically I'm Town? That's not how mafia works.

 

 

nope not true. i at least will always have a nagging voice in my head always asking whether he's telling the truth or lying. however, based that he claimed first, he will have some advantage if a counterclaim pops up during the next days. and if it's lylo...

 

To be fair, I was baited into that last one by killgor when he claimed I played at a "kindergarten" site. That said, I have no meta here. That means I have no meta knowledge on any of you and none of you have any meta knowledge on me. I *can* tell you that by and large the "Town" play has been unimpressive. You are the only confirmed Town, for example. The fact that you have been pushing anti Town after anti Town agendas has me extremely concerned at our chances of winning. Are you asking me to NOT take my experience into account when it comes to basic mafia theory? If that's what you are asking then go ahead and lynch me now. I can't play like someone that's never seen a mafia game before.

 

 

to be fair, you boasted with the number of games you played and assumed a position of authority based on that a long time ago. it was about the time you called me a noob actually. for something that turned out to be true i might add. as for the town play being unimpressive, we lynched a liar yesterday, turned out he was townie. then we wasted our time on your bluff. if town play was unimpressive, it's because we gave you too much attention.

 

also i had to redo this post a couple of times, so i apologize in advance if something in it went awry.

[Kaziocore]

Votecount 2.06

Chaplain of death (0) -
Electric Mango (0) -
Imran Ehsan (0) -
Iron Helix (0) -
iSocialism (0) -
killgor (1) - Yates
Lyner (0) -
MutedFaith (0) -
Robert2424 (0) -
Theophilos (1) - Iron Helix
Yates (4) - Theophilos, iSocialism, Electric Mango, killgor

Not Voting (5) - Chaplain of death, Imran Ehsan, Lyner, MutedFaith, Robert2424

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Yates is the current wagon leader at L-2
Deadline is Monday, December 16th, 2013 @ 12:45 EDT

[Yates]

Based on what I'm reading, the biggest flaw in my game here is that while I've been playing chess you guys have been playing checkers with chess pieces.  I probably should have picked up on that sooner.
 

[Yates]

Oh. One thing that needs adjusting:

...there's still a possible cop, a possible doc, a possible roleblocker, a possible watcher and a possible tracker.hmm... out of the 8 remaining possible people seems like a 1/4 chance of catching mafia and a 5/8 chance of him being townie. and that's assuming both remaining mafias have abilities/used their abilities. cause if they haven't, it doesn't really put them in danger if they call you a liar.

Off the top of my head? You are missing:

scum role cop
scum doc
scum redirector
poisoner
arsonist
framer
tailor
prostitute/escort
cult leader
recruiter
inquisitor

I don't know. I'm sure I'm missing a few.

[Lyner]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do? Or at least at your first visit to Rome

[Yates]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do? Or at least at your first visit to Rome

More like: I thought I was in Rome but recently discovered it's just the Jersey Shore - where everyone just *thinks* they are Italian.

[killgor]

Oh. One thing that needs adjusting:

killgor, on 08 Dec 2013 - 14:09, said:

...there's
still a possible cop, a possible doc, a possible roleblocker, a
possible watcher and a possible tracker.hmm... out of the 8 remaining
possible people seems like a 1/4 chance of catching mafia and a 5/8
chance of him being townie. and that's assuming both remaining mafias
have abilities/used their abilities. cause if they haven't, it doesn't
really put them in danger if they call you a liar.

Off the top of my head? You are missing:

scum role cop
scum doc
scum redirector
poisoner
arsonist
framer
tailor
prostitute/escort
cult leader
recruiter
inquisitor

I don't know. I'm sure I'm missing a few.

 

i don't get your point. do you even have one or are you just posting to try and annoy me? i work in tech support so trying that is like trying to call rain down upon egipt by dancing mambo bare skin in a park in manhattan.

 

Based on what I'm reading, the biggest flaw in my game here is that while I've been playing chess you guys have been playing checkers with chess pieces.  I probably should have picked up on that sooner.
 

 

it's not our fault if you can't tell a game of checkers apart from a game of chess.

 

also, helix, did your role specifically state that you get to chose when to reveal yourself? cause if it does say that we might have something like a oracle on our hands.

[Robert2424]

Yeah Yates, your playing a really bad townie right now or just awful scum. I'd like to see your role claim now. I'm 1 post away from putting my vote on you. That is a horrible way to play. If Town, your screwing the town, if anti, your role fishing hard. and somehow got away with outing probably our doc. So really, give me a reason why is should NOT vote for you. Cause really, I don't see a better alternative.

[Yates]

I'm hearing the message loud and clear. I obviously don't have the cachet on this site [yet] to play Town leader. I have overplayed my hand and misjudged how a certain style of play would be received.

So, Helix, as the only confirmed Town in the game would you care to take the lead now?

We have a FULL WEEK from this point to look at the information that has come out and to analyze player interactions. As a confirmed Town, you have to know that this might be the only day we HAVE a confirmed Town so I think it would be nice to reap the benefits of your position.

Basically I'm asking you to moderate the Town conversation until we can reach a consensus. And I'm comfortable with that.

I'm imagining a format where you are basically a moderator and any questions are more or less filtered through you. I think it will make the game easier to follow for those that have expressed concern that the WOT's are hard to follow and *should* make the voluminous amounts of information coming out easier to parse.

Does anyone think this is an unreasonable request?

[Electric Mango]

[OOC]  Yates,  your behavior is very childish.  You seem like some young kid who is trying to act cool and cocky to impress someone but you're coming off as arrogant and immature.  I'm sure you know how to behave better and I would welcome you back as a gentleman.  Until then, I hope this is the last game I play with you acting this way.

[Yates]

I would welcome you back as a gentleman.

Please note post above.

[Iron Helix]

Are you asking me to restate arguments into some kind of point/counterpoint format?

[Iron Helix]

 

Also Theo, let's see your character claim.

 

My name is Ned ... Dr. Ned.

 

 

Do you prefer your martinis shaken by any chance?

 

Dr. Ned? Who is that?  A google search tells me it's some sort of game character from Borderlands.  Seems dissimilar to the roles we know about.  

[Yates]

Are you asking me to restate arguments into some kind of point/counterpoint format?

Sort of. More like direct the conversation. So you act as the investigator and we are all your suspects in custody. So you would take a look at the information we have now and raise questions regarding motive and/or intention. Kind of like you are doing with Theo. This way, *you* can seperate the information from the noise.

[Iron Helix]

Going forward I suppose can try to do that.

 

The Dr. Ned claim seems obscure to me.  The other roles are something people would recognize pretty quickly.  People know who Casper is.  People know who Dracula is.  Lurch is a classic monster type.  Jacob Black is a well known werewolf and pop culture reference.  Dr. Ned feels completely out of place.  Most of the other characters come from movies, tv shows, books or a combination of those.  People should check their roles and see if they think such an obscure one is out of place.

 

Also, I just realized that the mummy was a character *I included* in my narration.  He never appeared in anything mod wrote.  

[Yates]

Also, I just realized that the mummy was a character *I included* in my narration.  He never appeared in anything mod wrote.

So now you see why when I saw your opening post it looked like you knew information the rest of the Town didn't know? You named a lot of characters, mine amongst them, so I thought you had info on all of the roles. It didn't look like you were just making it up. What you didn't include in your narrative, however, was character names. As I stated earlier, I'm Imhotep. He was a real historical figure, sure, but he was also the main baddy in the 1932 horror classic, The Mummy.

He's also this guy:

"The Mummy"

[Yates]

The Dr. Ned claim seems obscure to me.

I had to google him as well. I would have thought Dr Frankenstein would be our "doctor" if I was guessing.

The reason I'm okay with Theo living is because worst case scenario he actually *is* a Town doctor. In that scenario, both the scum and sk [assuming that's the second killing faction] would need to target him and kill him. So he can do one more protection for whatever it's worth and hopefully there's only one kill tonight. That's just as good as the doctor having one save before being randomly killed N2 or mislynched D2.

Another option the two killing parties have is to NOT kill him and try to frame him as scum because he shouldn't live to see tomorrow. These guys need kills quickly before our cop [assumed exists based on miller] finds them out. So that would be risky play but one I've used to great effect in the past as scum with a known doc. In which case, outting him *could* actually potentially save his life. Scum will have to decide if they risk taking a shot on you, Helix, as known Town. Obviously known Town means they can't let you live to MYLO. OR they might decide to say screw it and decide they MUST kill the doc [assuming Theo is Town here] and risk being seen by a watcher if we have one, and give up on the easy mislynch setup tomorrow.

Oh, and a third option would be if Theo is scum the scum could decide to no kill tonight in order to "prove" Theo is a Town doc. In which case, forcing him to fake claim Doc nets us a save anyway. Bonus: if we have a REAL doc, that doc has a chance at a protect in case the assumed SK tries to kill someone else.

That 3rd option is part of why I would be against a doc counter claim. I guess if we had a doc that isn't Theo we could do a 1 for 1 and call it a day. That *is* the easier path. OR we can swing for the fences. That's a higher risk higher reward sort of play. So I'll let you sort out if you want the real doc, if we even HAVE a doctor role, to counter claim or not. I've said my piece and laid out my opinion as clearly as I can. But you guys have the benefit of knowing site meta so I will defer to your collective wisdom.

Maybe make this a first order of business up front so we have the maximum amount of time to weigh any potential fall out?

Second order of business is obviously sorting Theo's role claim. I say 2nd only because it would be moot if you decide to ask for the counter claim. Because you will either get one and we lynch Theo or we don't and we are still left wondering about the veracity of his claim.

Third is probably to sort me out. I know there are a lot of questions about my play. So, this would be the opportunity to determine if I'm smart, stupid, crazy, or scum.

Fourth would likely be to figure out why BOTH killing parties chose Commander Shepherd. That was a strange kill and I'm going to look at all his posts. Off the top of my head the only thing I recall is that he said something about lynching people "while they sleep."

Yates out.

[Imran Ehsan]

Yates:

 

You still need to answer my questions:

 

Also so you are confirming EM is the neighborizer?

 

Anycase, did you have any actions last night? If yes, what did you do and who did you target?

 

I see you king of explained the turn-about on Theo but the above two has not been answered.

 

I have a pretty good feeling you are the SK. Apart from the horrible play in trying to out a scum with a fake claim and cutting through all your chest-thumping about how good a player you are, it seems pretty likely to me you wanted to take charge and mislead the town. You also happened to role claim about a role that was randomly posted about by Iron-Helix, and not by the mod. So yes, I think you are lying about your role and would like your full claim and what kind of actions you took last night.

[Electric Mango]

I'm not going to give specifics about my character because I do not want everyone to start mass role claiming. What I will say is that I do not have a classic monster role either. I do not think we all have to fit classic Count Dracula/Werewolf mold to be a townie.