860 replies to this topic

[Canik]

Do tell me what my possible role is

Well, you could say "I got nothing, sort of" if you were a Doctor or Jailer.. but it'd just be kinda silly to say it then. Plus those are important roles, so bringing undue attention seems unwise.

If you were a cop you'd probably have something to report. So I would guess a weaker investigatory role such as Motion Tracker or Watcher. Who will often get 'this person made no moves'.

Also there are a few scums in this game, care to point your other suspects?

If you and Imran are just mislead townies, then I would guess most of the scum must be hiding in the less-active ranks. A shame there are so many of them.

Avater stands out a bit for his 'vote for fun' on Imran.

FB, switching from supporting me yesterday to voting against me today seems kinda scummy.

Roq I am a little suspicious of due to his town-killing vote, but could have been an innocent mistake.

Also a tad suspicious of iSocialism & CoD, because Imran's theory that scum seemed fine with either Kaz or Lyner and would prefer Lyner makes some sense. (FB was in there too).

Mandarjin and his claims look probably legit. Would like to hear more on the Rhizo results too.

Rafay, dunno, need to re-read his stuff. He seems to be staying decently active.. yet safely off to the side.

The rest, d3mon, theDoom, Robert are all being very inactive. Good chance a scum could be hiding in there.

..

The argument that scum didn't seem to move to defend Lyner seems like a really good one to me and is certainly making me re-think things. If I've been wrong and Lyner is town, and I had to choose someone else right now, gun to my head.. I think I'd have to go with FB.

[Chaplain of death]

 

Do tell me what my possible role is

Well, you could say "I got nothing, sort of" if you were a Doctor or Jailer.. but it'd just be kinda silly to say it then. Plus those are important roles, so bringing undue attention seems unwise.

If you were a cop you'd probably have something to report. So I would guess a weaker investigatory role such as Motion Tracker or Watcher. Who will often get 'this person made no moves'.

 

Also there are a few scums in this game, care to point your other suspects?

If you and Imran are just mislead townies, then I would guess most of the scum must be hiding in the less-active ranks. A shame there are so many of them.

Avater stands out a bit for his 'vote for fun' on Imran.

FB, switching from supporting me yesterday to voting against me today seems kinda scummy.

Roq I am a little suspicious of due to his town-killing vote, but could have been an innocent mistake.

Also a tad suspicious of iSocialism & CoD, because Imran's theory that scum seemed fine with either Kaz or Lyner and would prefer Lyner makes some sense. (FB was in there too).

Mandarjin and his claims look probably legit. Would like to hear more on the Rhizo results too.

Rafay, dunno, need to re-read his stuff. He seems to be staying decently active.. yet safely off to the side.

The rest, d3mon, theDoom, Robert are all being very inactive. Good chance a scum could be hiding in there.

..

The argument that scum didn't seem to move to defend Lyner seems like a really good one to me and is certainly making me re-think things. If I've been wrong and Lyner is town, and I had to choose someone else right now, gun to my head.. I think I'd have to go with FB.

 

 

Can't speak to the motives of other players for their votes. Mine was based on my suspicion because of Lyners soft claim/lying (much as yours is). Personally I think Scum would rather we lynched Kazio yesterday because that wagon was based on inactivity where as Lyners was based on a suspicion which most likely would still exist on the following day, and could lead to his being lynched anyway. 

[Mandarijn]

 

Hmm, I didn't know that. So the Role Cop is the only sort of Cop that can investigate the Godfather and know he's scum?
 
Can we confirm somehow that someone is a normal townie without a power role? So we know it's not a role madness game? As this would clear Rhizo completely or marks him as scum.

 
Can you please reveal what exactly you got from investigating Rhizo. If you got No Result then it will probably indicate he is scum. If you get killed at night we will never be sure about Rhizo's alignment specially if he is a Godfather. If he is a VT the scum will not target him, so there is no reason to hide what you found unless you found that he has a very powerful role like a Cop or Doc. Other than that we need to know exactly what you got. The following should be helpful.

 

A Role Cop that returns only their target's full role name and not alignment is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Mafia Goon or a Serial Killer with no other abilities should give the same result as a Vanilla Townie.

 

I got "Vanilla", so if we have a power madness game. He's most likely scum, otherwise just a normal townie...

[Imran Ehsan]

I got "Vanilla", so if we have a power madness game. He's most likely scum, otherwise just a normal townie...

 

We have seen no vanilla townies yet. So I would definitely not put him in townie category yet. Whether he is really a VT or a mafia goon with no ability (other than killing) remains to be seen.

[Mandarijn]

 

I got "Vanilla", so if we have a power madness game. He's most likely scum, otherwise just a normal townie...

 

We have seen no vanilla townies yet. So I would definitely not put him in townie category yet. Whether he is really a VT or a mafia goon with no ability (other than killing) remains to be seen.

 

If all townies have a Power role, then he's definitly scum...

[Imran Ehsan]

That does add up with my assessment on D1

 

Finster is following around voting for whoever Shah/Canik votes. Shah/Canik-Rhizo-FB are all working in tandem.

 

Rhizo and Shah came attacking out at me for very flimsy reasons followed by a quick vote on me too from FB. They were planing for a quick lynch of one of the most active townie players. When that failed they tried to get Lyner lynched.

 

Now, with FB voting for Canik as well, we have the scenario of:

 

1. Canik-Rhizo-FB are all scum with FB trying to buss as pointed by Lyner. In this case we may see Rhizo coming out to vote for Canik as well, Canik being the sacrficial goat.

 

or

 

2. Rhizo-Canik are scum with FB being a townie who just goes with the flow wherever the votes are flowing. This is actually consistent with his last game as well.

 

3. Rhizo-FB are scum with Canik being townie. I dont buy this because the attack on me by Rhizo and Shah was too well coordinated.

 

Point to note. All these attacks came at me when I accused Avater of bandwagoning. So he may as well be their partner.

[Lyner]

Well should any vanilla townie comes out?

 

If there are some VTs then it would mean that Rhizo isn't necessarily Godfather, vice versa

 

The drawback is scum has easier time sniffing out the cop

[Imran Ehsan]

Well should any vanilla townie comes out?

 

If there are some VTs then it would mean that Rhizo isn't necessarily Godfather, vice versa

 

The drawback is scum has easier time sniffing out the cop

 

Godfather will return the result Godfather. So either Rhizo is a mafia goon or a VT.

 

I dont think another person claiming VT should clear Rhizo. If there are 5 scum one of them can easily claim a VT role to clear himself and Rhizo.

 

So we still dont know for sure and imo dont have enough info to lynch Rhizo yet. But he should not be cleared as a confirmed town just because he returned the result "Vanilla". In a couple of days we will see more deaths (lynching and night kills) and if townies get killed we can see if they were VT or not which. If not it closes the noose around Rhizo. If a dead VT turns up it clears him to some extent.

 

If we lynch Canik today and he turns up scum this will also be an indication that Rhizo is probably scum.

[The Warrior]

Yehom is replacing TheDoom effective immediately.

 

 

Vote Count

Canik (3): Lyner, Imran Ehsan, Finster Baby

Ali bin Turban (0):

Avater (0):

Chaplain of Death (0):

d3mon (0):

Finster Baby (0):
Imran Ehsan (0):

iSocialism (0):

KevinH (0):

Lyner (0):

Mandarijn (0):

Rafay (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):
Robert2424 (0):

Roquentin (0):

Yehom (0):

No Lynch (0):

Not voting: Ali bin Turban, Avater, Canik, Chaplain of Death, d3mon, iSocialism, KevinH, Mandarijn, Rafay, Rhizoctonia, Robert2424, Roquentin, Yehom

 
With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch or 5 at deadline.
Deadline is Saturday, May 14th, at 9:00am CN Server Time.

[KevinH]

End of Day 2:

Kaziocore (5): Roquentin, KevinH, Lyner, King Hitler, Mandarijn

Lyner (4): Canik, Chaplain of Death, Finster Baby, iSocialism

Canik (1): Ali bin Turban

Imran Ehsan (1): Rhizoctonia

King Hitler (1): TheDoom

Rhizoctonia (1): Imran Ehsan

Not voting: Avater, d3mon, Kaziocore, Rafay, Robert2424

 

My suspicion is that the scum were letting the townies lynch their own.

 

Vote: Avater

 

... for inactivity. If we identify scum, we need the votes.

[The Warrior]

Vote Count

Canik (3): Lyner, Imran Ehsan, Finster Baby

Avater (1): KevinH

Ali bin Turban (0):

Chaplain of Death (0):

d3mon (0):

Finster Baby (0):
Imran Ehsan (0):

iSocialism (0):

KevinH (0):

Lyner (0):

Mandarijn (0):

Rafay (0):

Rhizoctonia (0):
Robert2424 (0):

Roquentin (0):

Yehom (0):

No Lynch (0):

Not voting: Ali bin Turban, Avater, Canik, Chaplain of Death, d3mon, iSocialism, Mandarijn, Rafay, Rhizoctonia, Robert2424, Roquentin, Yehom

 
With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch or 5 at deadline.
Deadline is Saturday, May 14th, at 9:00am CN Server Time.

[Chaplain of death]

Rhizo either has an explanation for he came as VT (when he isn't), or he is a VT or goon. So in my opinion he should explain himself on why his result came up that way and if we aren't convinced we should lynch him. If he is a VT then that sucks, but we don't lose a power role.

 

vote Rhizo

[Rafay]

... for inactivity. If we identify scum, we need the votes.

 

That's good and all but if we keep this up, you'll be responsible for the town losing.....unless that is, what you want....? 

[Ali bin Turban]

End of Day 2:

Kaziocore (5): Roquentin, KevinH, Lyner, King Hitler, Mandarijn

Lyner (4): Canik, Chaplain of Death, Finster Baby, iSocialism

Canik (1): Ali bin Turban

Imran Ehsan (1): Rhizoctonia

King Hitler (1): TheDoom

Rhizoctonia (1): Imran Ehsan

Not voting: Avater, d3mon, Kaziocore, Rafay, Robert2424

 

My suspicion is that the scum were letting the townies lynch their own.

 

Vote: Avater

 

... for inactivity. If we identify scum, we need the votes.

I was thinking about the same scenario but I don't find it the most probable to assume that all of the scum hide among inactive (but it's interesting idea still...I'll come back to it).

 

I was thinking about Lyner - Imran scum team, but then it would be quite risky move (though I guess they could have balls to play it )

 

When you point on Avater then we're back again to beginning of D2 (you should have voted with us then ) and need to think about Shah/Rhizo/Finster's coming outs that were connected. Also there's not much info we can get out of lynching Avater (except by analyzing bandwagon but look how good are we doing with the 2 we got already). It was a good move on D2, but on D3 we should have more info than just inactivity issue and a little suspicion. 

 

I'm thinking about Rhizo now. 'Vanilla' read from Mandarjin is definitely not a townie indication. It's no solid proof however (there may be ... 3,2,1,0 vanilla townies in game and each number is equally possible in my opinion). What adds to it is that Rhizo is inconsistent with his postings. Apart from his first appearance on D2 when he jumped Imran, he doesn't really add anything to our "witch hunting", like if he didn't care. But just you try treading on him and he suddenly wakes up and starts caring.

That also goes in line with KevinH's assumptions. What's more, I can't stop thinking "what if Shah was just a little clumsy tinfoil hat investigator" (which he sometimes is as we all know). In such case we'd have townies fighting each other with scums adding just a little support from the back seat (like Finster did) to make sure someone's lynched.

 

Assuming Canik / Finster / Rhizo are suspects I'd postpone Canik's case for now. He's the most active out of 3 and plays most risky way out of those 3 - he may be a scum but he's not acting the most scummy right now. It's not that he'll get away and I'd rather vote Rhizo this very moment.

 

vote Rhizoctonia

Oh, I've just noticed I'm bandwagonning now .

 

Also, this will be the post I'll remind everyone of if I get into another game with Rafay. I swear from now on that I'll always vote on him on D1 because of his selfish, toxic play style.

[The Warrior]

Vote Count

Canik (3): Lyner, Imran Ehsan, Finster Baby

Rhizoctonia (2): Chaplain of Death, Ali bin Turban

Avater (1): KevinH

Ali bin Turban (0):

Chaplain of Death (0):

d3mon (0):

Finster Baby (0):
Imran Ehsan (0):

iSocialism (0):

KevinH (0):

Lyner (0):

Mandarijn (0):

Rafay (0):
Robert2424 (0):

Roquentin (0):

Yehom (0):

No Lynch (0):

Not voting: Avater, Canik, d3mon, iSocialism, Mandarijn, Rafay, Rhizoctonia, Robert2424, Roquentin, Yehom

 
With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch or 5 at deadline.
Deadline is Saturday, May 14th, at 9:00am CN Server Time.

[Chaplain of death]

 

End of Day 2:

Kaziocore (5): Roquentin, KevinH, Lyner, King Hitler, Mandarijn

Lyner (4): Canik, Chaplain of Death, Finster Baby, iSocialism

Canik (1): Ali bin Turban

Imran Ehsan (1): Rhizoctonia

King Hitler (1): TheDoom

Rhizoctonia (1): Imran Ehsan

Not voting: Avater, d3mon, Kaziocore, Rafay, Robert2424

 

My suspicion is that the scum were letting the townies lynch their own.

 

Vote: Avater

 

... for inactivity. If we identify scum, we need the votes.

I was thinking about the same scenario but I don't find it the most probable to assume that all of the scum hide among inactive (but it's interesting idea still...I'll come back to it).

 

I was thinking about Lyner - Imran scum team, but then it would be quite risky move (though I guess they could have balls to play it )

 

When you point on Avater then we're back again to beginning of D2 (you should have voted with us then ) and need to think about Shah/Rhizo/Finster's coming outs that were connected. Also there's not much info we can get out of lynching Avater (except by analyzing bandwagon but look how good are we doing with the 2 we got already). It was a good move on D2, but on D3 we should have more info than just inactivity issue and a little suspicion. 

 

I'm thinking about Rhizo now. 'Vanilla' read from Mandarjin is definitely not a townie indication. It's no solid proof however (there may be ... 3,2,1,0 vanilla townies in game and each number is equally possible in my opinion). What adds to it is that Rhizo is inconsistent with his postings. Apart from his first appearance on D2 when he jumped Imran, he doesn't really add anything to our "witch hunting", like if he didn't care. But just you try treading on him and he suddenly wakes up and starts caring.

That also goes in line with KevinH's assumptions. What's more, I can't stop thinking "what if Shah was just a little clumsy tinfoil hat investigator" (which he sometimes is as we all know). In such case we'd have townies fighting each other with scums adding just a little support from the back seat (like Finster did) to make sure someone's lynched.

 

Assuming Canik / Finster / Rhizo are suspects I'd postpone Canik's case for now. He's the most active out of 3 and plays most risky way out of those 3 - he may be a scum but he's not acting the most scummy right now. It's not that he'll get away and I'd rather vote Rhizo this very moment.

 

vote Rhizoctonia

Oh, I've just noticed I'm bandwagonning now .

 

Also, this will be the post I'll remind everyone of if I get into another game with Rafay. I swear from now on that I'll always vote on him on D1 because of his selfish, toxic play style.

 

 

Selfish toxic play style? I mean he's been suspiciously inactive lately and isn't adding much to the conversation but that is a tactic that people use, both as town and as scum, when they are trying to avoid drawing attention. If you want to see selfish toxic play style I'll go dig up one of my old games where I tilted out on a new player who refused to listen to logic.

[Yehom]

My god I just went through 24 pages and 476 comments. My thoughts so far

 

- The Sha/Imran/Ali was interesting for some parts, but was mainly pretty much a sandcastle argument about pretty irrelevant things in such an early part of the game. It might be relevant as we progress further into the game, but right now I find the argument pretty hollow. 

- Manda's claim of being a role cop outing Kevin to be Miller and Rhizo to be vanilla. I would like to hear Rhizo's explanation for that first, before I want to jump to conclusions. For that matter Manda could be scum trying to cover up for Kevin (Miller is an easy role to fake if you're actually scum), though I would like to believe Manda's claim

- Lyner's 'tease' was enough to get people to jump on him for a bit, but in my eyes not something substantial enough to think he's faking a role

- Avatar and King Hitler are pretty damn inactive for a thread that has 450+ comments, I suggest they get more active or risk getting lynched for inactivity

[Rhizoctonia]

That does add up with my assessment on D1

 

Finster is following around voting for whoever Shah/Canik votes. Shah/Canik-Rhizo-FB are all working in tandem.

 

Rhizo and Shah came attacking out at me for very flimsy reasons followed by a quick vote on me too from FB. They were planing for a quick lynch of one of the most active townie players. When that failed they tried to get Lyner lynched.

 

Now, with FB voting for Canik as well, we have the scenario of:

 

1. Canik-Rhizo-FB are all scum with FB trying to buss as pointed by Lyner. In this case we may see Rhizo coming out to vote for Canik as well, Canik being the sacrficial goat.

 

or

 

2. Rhizo-Canik are scum with FB being a townie who just goes with the flow wherever the votes are flowing. This is actually consistent with his last game as well.

 

3. Rhizo-FB are scum with Canik being townie. I dont buy this because the attack on me by Rhizo and Shah was too well coordinated.

 

Point to note. All these attacks came at me when I accused Avater of bandwagoning. So he may as well be their partner.

 

 

Again with these flimsy reasons....your mad I called you out, its quite evident.  That being said, you have delivered no evidence or solid reason to lynch anyone yourself besides speculation, so because I don't go around accusing people 24/7 and jumping from one to the other like you have makes me suspicious?  I have no power role, Mandarijn has already alluded to this, for which he shouldn't of, because that only helps the scum know they don't have to target me...where otherwise he could of left his findings to himself like he originally stated and not left the cat out of the bag allowing Scum to know exactly what he found.  He already stated what he found made him believe I was likely Townie, and yet he left no doubt with him posting what he did.

 

To go along with your statement, I did nothing to push a vote on Lyner or Shah.  I didn't call them out, I didn't cast a vote for them, I didn't change a vote from them, so I have no idea what you're getting at from trying to lynch Canik to switching to go Lyner.  I did no such.  If you're going off looking to get people lynched, you tried Avatar, then you jumped on the Shah/Canik bandwagon, and once everyone took their vote off Canik, you suddenly changed to me.  If anything, that is you looking to push a lynch on quite a few people, and suddenly changing when the Shah/Canik vote went away...that after you were sold Shah was Scum and suddenly Canik come along and all is forgotten (convient reason to change a vote off Shah when everyone already left the wagon on him)

 

 

Rhizo either has an explanation for he came as VT (when he isn't), or he is a VT or goon. So in my opinion he should explain himself on why his result came up that way and if we aren't convinced we should lynch him. If he is a VT then that sucks, but we don't lose a power role.

 

vote Rhizo

 

 

There's absolutely nothing to explain.  I am a VT, but what does that change?  You vote me knowing I've came back as vanilla from Mandarijn.  Just because I come out and state it isn't going to change anything, because if it would you wouldn't have already voted for me.  There's absolutely nothing I can say besides the fact I'm a VT, Mandarijn's role already stated I came back as Vanilla, there's nothing I can add to it, there's no information I can post with not having a role, so I don't really know what else I can do to prove myself.  

 

 

End of Day 2:

Kaziocore (5): Roquentin, KevinH, Lyner, King Hitler, Mandarijn

Lyner (4): Canik, Chaplain of Death, Finster Baby, iSocialism

Canik (1): Ali bin Turban

Imran Ehsan (1): Rhizoctonia

King Hitler (1): TheDoom

Rhizoctonia (1): Imran Ehsan

Not voting: Avater, d3mon, Kaziocore, Rafay, Robert2424

 

My suspicion is that the scum were letting the townies lynch their own.

 

Vote: Avater

 

... for inactivity. If we identify scum, we need the votes.

I was thinking about the same scenario but I don't find it the most probable to assume that all of the scum hide among inactive (but it's interesting idea still...I'll come back to it).

 

I was thinking about Lyner - Imran scum team, but then it would be quite risky move (though I guess they could have balls to play it )

 

When you point on Avater then we're back again to beginning of D2 (you should have voted with us then ) and need to think about Shah/Rhizo/Finster's coming outs that were connected. Also there's not much info we can get out of lynching Avater (except by analyzing bandwagon but look how good are we doing with the 2 we got already). It was a good move on D2, but on D3 we should have more info than just inactivity issue and a little suspicion. 

 

I'm thinking about Rhizo now. 'Vanilla' read from Mandarjin is definitely not a townie indication. It's no solid proof however (there may be ... 3,2,1,0 vanilla townies in game and each number is equally possible in my opinion). What adds to it is that Rhizo is inconsistent with his postings. Apart from his first appearance on D2 when he jumped Imran, he doesn't really add anything to our "witch hunting", like if he didn't care. But just you try treading on him and he suddenly wakes up and starts caring.

That also goes in line with KevinH's assumptions. What's more, I can't stop thinking "what if Shah was just a little clumsy tinfoil hat investigator" (which he sometimes is as we all know). In such case we'd have townies fighting each other with scums adding just a little support from the back seat (like Finster did) to make sure someone's lynched.

 

Assuming Canik / Finster / Rhizo are suspects I'd postpone Canik's case for now. He's the most active out of 3 and plays most risky way out of those 3 - he may be a scum but he's not acting the most scummy right now. It's not that he'll get away and I'd rather vote Rhizo this very moment.

 

vote Rhizoctonia

Oh, I've just noticed I'm bandwagonning now .

 

Also, this will be the post I'll remind everyone of if I get into another game with Rafay. I swear from now on that I'll always vote on him on D1 because of his selfish, toxic play style.

 

 

You just stated that Mandarijn's evidence does not indicate I am for sure town, nor solid proof I'm not.  Then you start your next sentence, "what adds to it."  So which is it?  Because it looks like me coming back as Vanilla is suddenly proof I am scum...which I've stated in a reply to someone in this multiquote I'm a VT.  That obviously means nothing to you, because you're suddenly trying to use it as evidence I am, which is completely not.

To my appearances....I didn't show up suddenly on D2, I was here during D1 as well, but what would you of liked me to do then, start calling out people for random "fluff" talk that was happening.  I stated on May 3rd that I been trying to keep up during a busy week for me, that I had been reading.  I am zero power role, thus I get no information to add to the conversations, so I go off what other people are feeling.  I'm sorry I don't go on these witchhunts that you seem to want to do.  I'm sorry I don't go from one to the next switching votes multiple times per the day.  I'm not just going to look to lynch someone off of very little evidence being presented, and at most "flimsy" evidence to go off of.  I wait, I look for people to present some actual information they have found or believe, and I analyze it.  For the last two days, yesterday I woke up before work to a completely flooded basement due to my hot water tank breaking..and spent the time when not at work cleaning it up...today I worked, and then had to deal with the technician come out and replace it.  My career makes me work 11 days on and two days off...I get a whooping 4 days off a month...I don't always have time to spend posting....and when I do post, everyone knows it's usually a long ass novel, so I actually spend time.  It's not like I've been overly active elsewhere on these forums the last few weeks and ignoring here.

And yes, I'm going to respond when someone calls me out, it's pretty common practice.  So I replied to Imran's suspicion on me...as I was hoping to put my thoughts down or vote by deadline, and shortly there, Imran calls me out.  It's not some big surprise though that you're voting me...you and Imran have already been seemingly linked together, so it's no surprise that you follow, especially when I stated prior to D2 end of it.  I expect Imran will look to in the next day or so come back to voting me, as if anyone are in cahoots, it's you both.  I also don't get how kevin's suspicion is some sort of evidence against me?  I replied to Imran's call out of Avatar, for which you mostly agreed with my statements, now suddenly what I said you want to turn 360 and use against me?  I'm confused, but whatever. 

[Rhizoctonia]

To add, look at the list of players.  You're using the fact I'm not jumping in on witchhunts or voting people with little to no hard evidence as a reason to get me lynched.  Yehom, Rafay, D3mon, Roq, Yehom, Robert have all pretty much contributed the same amount.  The active people, the likes of Canik, Lyner, FB, etc are the ones being called out and voted on....they're forced to be active to reply to the accusations of them.  How much has the likes of Canik posted once he joined the game and disputed some of the votes on him....when the votes started to go off of him, his activity slowly dropped a lot...Lyner wasn't that active if I recall until suddenly votes came his way and had to remain throughout as he was pretty close to the chopping block.  

I could go down the list for each individual, but I don't think it's necessary.  

[Yehom]

To be fair I understand Rhizos point of having no powers thus he has no information to share with us. It's hard to accuse people of things if you are never the one actually outing it for the first time. I saw someone earlier (can't remember who it was) say that it maybe would be wise to wait out another VT getting lynched (or exposed otherwise) to confirm that there is indeed VT among us. I actually think that that would be wise as I think with such a big game it's pretty likely that there are more VT. I would like to believe that Rhizo is VT for the time being but how later it goes into the game without another VT popping up, the more likely it is that Rhizo is scum