860 replies to this topic

[Rhizoctonia]

My god I just went through 24 pages and 476 comments. My thoughts so far

 

- The Sha/Imran/Ali was interesting for some parts, but was mainly pretty much a sandcastle argument about pretty irrelevant things in such an early part of the game. It might be relevant as we progress further into the game, but right now I find the argument pretty hollow. 

- Manda's claim of being a role cop outing Kevin to be Miller and Rhizo to be vanilla. I would like to hear Rhizo's explanation for that first, before I want to jump to conclusions. For that matter Manda could be scum trying to cover up for Kevin (Miller is an easy role to fake if you're actually scum), though I would like to believe Manda's claim

- Lyner's 'tease' was enough to get people to jump on him for a bit, but in my eyes not something substantial enough to think he's faking a role

- Avatar and King Hitler are pretty damn inactive for a thread that has 450+ comments, I suggest they get more active or risk getting lynched for inactivity

 

 

Since you replied while typing my other statement.  I already came out as a Vanilla Townie in earlier reply.  There's really nothing I can add to this, to suddenly make someone believe it.  Mandarijn posted about another role that could possibly came back the same, and suddenly now people think that must be it, as it couldn't be what it does, that I'm a townie with no role.  Either way you want to look at it, Mandarijn's evidence he found doesn't say either way, so I'm not sure how suddenly people want to use it against ,me.  

 

I had a similar thought about Manda as well.  Mandarijn could very well be scum.  He came out with evidence against me and Kevin.  Personally, I'm not sure why someone would waste a role cop on Kevin when he came out D1 about being it.  I mean, obviously there is a chance Kevin could be lying, and just stating he's that but really isn't.  But either way, Mandairijn presents evidence of me and Kevin.  He asks me a question, in a way seemingly to allow me to not role claim.  He then comes back he won't divulge anything more on me, but that he believed I was Town.  Then he proceeds to cast doubt on what he found, stating well I could have a Godfather role.  Then he comes out with exactly what he got from looking at me, after he already setup the idea though he thinks I'm town but continues to state well he could be this instead.  It's like a slow build up to put in people's mind I could be some godfather role.  Not only did he say at first he wouldn't out any information on me besides thinking I was town which I appreciated, as he could of left it unknown to Scum what it is he found instead of outing that I had no role, he then starts slowly shining light there is a chance I'm not town, to fully coming out I had no role, when others already said I'll take Mandarijn's word for it.  He had no reason to out me, in fact, it coming out only hurts town as scum now know they don't have to target me quickly.  His other investigation information he states is Kevin's...which he already stated and easy for him to say with no one being able to prove him wrong.  Hell Kevin could be scum with him....he's could be trying to take any suspicion off Kevin by "verifying" Kevin is Miller when he may not be, as it's the only other role that's been put out at this point...so it's easy one to use.  If Mandarijn investigated me and someone else whose role is unknown or been claimed...it would be different.  Not saying Kevin for sure is in cahoots, but it's convenient the only other role cop move Mandarijn made was on the one guy who already role claimed, and could be shielding Kevin if Kevin is lying about his role, but I don't think there's enough yet to claim that.  

 

I just don't understand Mandarijn's choice.  He left it where I wouldn't have to claim I'm VT, said he wouldn't divulge more, then does so anyway when it does nothing to really benefit town, it only hurts it.  Him coming out with his evidence I came back Vanilla does not provide any solid information one way or the other, and if he's town, doing so is only a poor choice by him, as it shines light to Scum not to bother with me.  If he is Scum, it doesn't matter if he states his findings,the scum already knows, and he has seemingly looked to setup some doubt of his findings to look to maybe push a lynch on a townie with it.  Either way, doing what he has decided to do has only hurt the town, either by pushing a lynch but trying to play it off he believes I'm town (yet paints a different picture with other comments), or by outing a fellow Townie when there was no need to divulge I had no role. 

 

Vote:  Mandarijn

 

FOS:  Lyner, Imran, ABT, Canik, Kevin

 

Few others could be, yet they don't talk, for which the list I posted in a earlier reply

[Rhizoctonia]

 

Ok, I'm going to give my results:

I'm a 2-shot Role Cop (WTF) and I've used my 2 investigations already. Unfortunately I didn't find any scum.

Night 1: Rhizo (probably town, not going to give more details. But unless he's the Mafia Godfather or something he's pro-town )

Night 2: KevinH (Miller)

 

So KevinH is speaking the truth and Rhizo is most likely pro town. Also seeing all these X-shot abilities, I assume most of the power roles have this limitation...

I read the wiki. Can't understand what the commuter is?

 

We didn't lose any power roles at least.

He can 'commute' at night and if he's targeted at night then the kill would fail.

 

 

 

I did get something, but I don't want to tell it as it can either confirm Rhizo is a normal townie and scum should target others or I confirm he has a power role. So I don't want to do either... I'm just saying that he's most likely town, but there's still a small chance that he's the godfather or something.

 

 

Hmm, I didn't know that. So the Role Cop is the only sort of Cop that can investigate the Godfather and know he's scum?

 

Can we confirm somehow that someone is a normal townie without a power role? So we know it's not a role madness game? As this would clear Rhizo completely or marks him as scum.

 

 

 

 

Hmm, I didn't know that. So the Role Cop is the only sort of Cop that can investigate the Godfather and know he's scum?
 
Can we confirm somehow that someone is a normal townie without a power role? So we know it's not a role madness game? As this would clear Rhizo completely or marks him as scum.

 
Can you please reveal what exactly you got from investigating Rhizo. If you got No Result then it will probably indicate he is scum. If you get killed at night we will never be sure about Rhizo's alignment specially if he is a Godfather. If he is a VT the scum will not target him, so there is no reason to hide what you found unless you found that he has a very powerful role like a Cop or Doc. Other than that we need to know exactly what you got. The following should be helpful.

 

A Role Cop that returns only their target's full role name and not alignment is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Mafia Goon or a Serial Killer with no other abilities should give the same result as a Vanilla Townie.

 

I got "Vanilla", so if we have a power madness game. He's most likely scum, otherwise just a normal townie...

 

 

 

 

 

I got "Vanilla", so if we have a power madness game. He's most likely scum, otherwise just a normal townie...

 

We have seen no vanilla townies yet. So I would definitely not put him in townie category yet. Whether he is really a VT or a mafia goon with no ability (other than killing) remains to be seen.

 

If all townies have a Power role, then he's definitly scum...

 

 

 

Quoted for ease of looking at Mandarijn's slow progression.  

 

1.  believes I'm town yet could be Godfather, wont say more

2.  Acts pro town by not wanting to reveal what he found as it could be detrimental, but again states he think's I'm town but throws in Godfather again

3.  Seemingly want to find out if there is more then 1 VT

4.  Comes out with what he finds while earlier stating he wouldn't, twice, and explaining why he wouldn't.

5.  Suddenly now he starts looking at me as scum...though all along he was the one to keep tossing up Godfather.  It wasn't like someone else mentioned the idea of Godfather and started to make him think differently.  Seemingly fishing for others to confirm or deny anyone else doesn't have a PR

[Canik]

1. believes I'm town yet could be Godfather, wont say more 2. Acts pro town by not wanting to reveal what he found as it could be detrimental, but again states he think's I'm town but throws in Godfather again 3. Seemingly want to find out if there is more then 1 VT 4. Comes out with what he finds while earlier stating he wouldn't, twice, and explaining why he wouldn't. 5. Suddenly now he starts looking at me as scum...though all along he was the one to keep tossing up Godfather. It wasn't like someone else mentioned the idea of Godfather and started to make him think differently. Seemingly fishing for others to confirm or deny anyone else doesn't have a PR

That is a little curious, but it quite easily could be Mandarjin is just inexperienced.

btw, did you say you claimed to be VT before Mandarjin posted it? Can you link us to that? I find that pretty interesting, if Mandarjin just claimed two roles that already revealed themselves.

For now, I'm not to sure who to vote for.. but I am sure we need Avater and d3mon to be more active, and Avater has given some reason for suspicion. Might change this later but for now:

Vote Avater

[KevinH]

My take on things:

Town

• Mandarijn Role Cop, voted Kaziocore
• Roquentin voted Kaziocore
• KevinH claimed and confirmed Miller
• Lyner voted Kaziocore

Probably town but scum would probably have liked Lyner killed over Kaziocore.

• Canik voted Lyner
• Chaplain of Death voted Lyner
• Finster Baby voted Lyner
• iSocialism voted Lyner

 

Possibly town but made "safe" votes which didn't push a lynch

• Ali bin Turban has good pro-town posts
• Imran Ehsan has good pro-town posts
• Yehom is too new

Up in the air

• Rhizoctonia, "vanilla" which could be goon

Didn't vote which is not helping the town

• Avater has only 5 posts the whole game
• D3mon has only 2 posts the whole game
• Rafay
• Robert2424

Although it was never stated by The Warrior that this is a "Normal" game, one of the criteria to be Normal is that there be at least one vanilla townie.  That makes me give Rhizoctonia a few fractions of a townie point.

[Chaplain of death]

Everything so far in this game has pointed to a role madness setup (lots of modifiers to weaken the power roles to balance it out). So the fact that he came up VT is actually pretty concerning.

If he is in fact a VT then that sucks, but it sucks a lot less than lynching a power role, and im still unconvinced that he is a VT. Im sorry Rhizo, the explanation i was hoping you could give was more of some kind of strange investigation immunity, even that would have been suspicious but possible. I see more reason to lynch Rhizo than i do Canik.

[Lyner]

 

 

Also, this will be the post I'll remind everyone of if I get into another game with Rafay. I swear from now on that I'll always vote on him on D1 because of his selfish, toxic play style.

 

 

Selfish toxic play style? I mean he's been suspiciously inactive lately and isn't adding much to the conversation but that is a tactic that people use, both as town and as scum, when they are trying to avoid drawing attention. If you want to see selfish toxic play style I'll go dig up one of my old games where I tilted out on a new player who refused to listen to logic.

 

 

Unless he has a powerful role that needs a low profile, it's a play style that hurts the town. All he has been doing is dismissing everyone's idea without commenting further or sharing his thoughts. If he is town, scum can use him as a scapegoat easily.

 

 

 

On Rhizo's debacle:

 

Fake claiming as a role cop is a huge risk, so I tend to trust Manda's claim. It is a bad claim though since it doesn't provide concrete evidence and just add more distractions to town.

 

And I disagree with AbT on this one, I hope he isn't scum who is doing this on purpose as his argument this time isn't as sharp as before. Canik is suspicious and now is the right time to find out his alignment so we can sniff out his partners.

 

IF Canik is town then the most suspicious ones next are Imran, AbT, and me. IF Canik is scum then it is Finster and CoD.

 

Rhizo? If we lynch him and he turned out town, Imran is the most suspicious one. If he is scum then Canik is next. I see no reason why we should lynch him over Canik.

 

Another reason is that he is Vanilla, I'd rather kill a non-vanilla scum over a vanilla scum.

 

The final piece is that there really is no additional evidence that points Rhizo as a scum, even Imran who is pushing for Rhizo since the start is still keeping his vote on Canik. Why did you start voting for Rhizo now that we're getting the momentum to lynch Canik?

 

This really hurts AbT's town cred and further increase CoD's scumminess

 

I believe this is just a maneuver from scum to distract the town.

[Chaplain of death]

What part of role madness is going over your head?

Id rather hit a vanilla scum than a townie.

[Chaplain of death]

Also, this will be the post I'll remind everyone of if I get into another game with Rafay. I swear from now on that I'll always vote on him on D1 because of his selfish, toxic play style.

Selfish toxic play style? I mean he's been suspiciously inactive lately and isn't adding much to the conversation but that is a tactic that people use, both as town and as scum, when they are trying to avoid drawing attention. If you want to see selfish toxic play style I'll go dig up one of my old games where I tilted out on a new player who refused to listen to logic.

Unless he has a powerful role that needs a low profile, it's a play style that hurts the town. All he has been doing is dismissing everyone's idea without commenting further or sharing his thoughts. If he is town, scum can use him as a scapegoat easily.



On Rhizo's debacle:

Fake claiming as a role cop is a huge risk, so I tend to trust Manda's claim. It is a bad claim though since it doesn't provide concrete evidence and just add more distractions to town.

And I disagree with AbT on this one, I hope he isn't scum who is doing this on purpose as his argument this time isn't as sharp as before. Canik is suspicious and now is the right time to find out his alignment so we can sniff out his partners.

IF Canik is town then the most suspicious ones next are Imran, AbT, and me. IF Canik is scum then it is Finster and CoD.

Rhizo? If we lynch him and he turned out town, Imran is the most suspicious one. If he is scum then Canik is next. I see no reason why we should lynch him over Canik.

Another reason is that he is Vanilla, I'd rather kill a non-vanilla scum over a vanilla scum.

The final piece is that there really is no additional evidence that points Rhizo as a scum, even Imran who is pushing for Rhizo since the start is still keeping his vote on Canik. Why did you start voting for Rhizo now that we're getting the momentum to lynch Canik?

This really hurts AbT's town cred and further increase CoD's scumminess

I believe this is just a maneuver from scum to distract the town.

Also, further increase my scuminess? Ive been mentioned in passing as "if this person turns up this, then the people who voted for him are scum because only scum would vote for him even though we don't have enough information, and the information we do have which leads to potential scum is being BLATENTLY IGNORED ".

So by all means, explain how I'm scum. Give me some evidence so i can set you straight because right now you are just throwing accusations around at anyone who tries to get any progress in scum hunting.

fos: Lyner

[Lyner]

This is my accusation that you ignored yesterday

 

 

 

You're scummier now, since your reason for voting Rhizo doesn't make any sense

 

How could a VT explain himself that he is a VT convincingly?

 

The others make a point that Rhizo is behaving suspiciously, but you instead are voting him without any justifiable reason

 

Therefore you're just trying to misdirect the town's direction

On another note, so you're suggesting Canik is a townie?

 

Can I have a more elaborate analysis on your thoughts on Canik?

[Canik]

IF Canik is town then the most suspicious ones next are Imran, AbT, and me.

Be prepared to make yourself the most suspicious then and lose the game for town.

I am fairly convinced you are actually town after comments like those Lyner, scum would know I'm town and so obviously leading a lynch on me would be a mistake for you.

But if you are town you're screwing up bad. Shah thought Imran was showing undue aggression towards Avater. He read too much into it, thought he had a scum on the ropes, and in the heated debate that followed he wasn't perfect. Made a mistake or two (misquoted someone I think), but nothing that revealed his was scum.

Now you & Imran are reading too much into that, and are going to be extremely disappointed if you are town.
 

[Chaplain of death]

Something interesting that Chaplain of Death and Finster Baby did:
1. Both comes to defend Canik immediately as a "new guy"
2. Both are silent during the Shah/Imran/AbT debacle
3. Both supports Canik's accusation of me immediately instead of adding more solid facts
 
A coincidence? more like a scum maneuver by using the day talk
 
 
I'm calling it now: Canik-CoD-FB-Kazio with one or two more suspect, most likely inactive 

Oh my mistake. You're going to use an accusation that throws a lynched townie in as scum. My mistake. Let me address it then. I don't draw the same conclusions as you do from Caniks behavior. I haven't seen anything blatently scummy from him.

I worked 10 hour days all through the last week of the month and wasn't very active during that "debacle" and wasnt able to keep up with everything just reading the thread on my phone while on break, and didn't have anything to add to the conversation when i was at a computer because i preferred to let them play it out until someone slips up.

I gave my reason for voting for you whether you liked it or not. You put out information for no reason and then tried to cover it up by putting out false information. Scummy.

[Chaplain of death]

This is my accusation that you ignored yesterday
 
 
 
You're scummier now, since your reason for voting Rhizo doesn't make any sense
 
How could a VT explain himself that he is a VT convincingly?
 
The others make a point that Rhizo is behaving suspiciously, but you instead are voting him without any justifiable reason
 
Therefore you're just trying to misdirect the town's direction
On another note, so you're suggesting Canik is a townie?
 
Can I have a more elaborate analysis on your thoughts on Canik?

Ill address my thoughts on Canik when i get home in a couple hours, as for my reasoning with Rhizo i believe i made myself pretty damn clear and the fact that you keep trying to obscure my reason for voting for him by ignoring it is looking scummier and scummier.

Every piece of evidence we have indicates that this game is a role madness setup.

Therefore there are no VT which means hes scum

True there's no way of proving that he is VT, but then that is why I'm voting to lynch him. It sucks, i know, ive been there. Being a townie who can't prove their innocence and gets lynched because of it, but that's the way the game goes. We have reason to suspect him and he has no way to prove us wrong. We can't take his word for it, that's how you lose games. Evaluate the facts and take the lovical course of action.
***im not saying that he is a townie. But it obviously can't be ruled out since we don't have all of the facts. Therefore we must a t based on the facts that we do have.

[Chaplain of death]

This is my accusation that you ignored yesterday

 

 

 

You're scummier now, since your reason for voting Rhizo doesn't make any sense

 

How could a VT explain himself that he is a VT convincingly?

 

The others make a point that Rhizo is behaving suspiciously, but you instead are voting him without any justifiable reason

 

Therefore you're just trying to misdirect the town's direction

On another note, so you're suggesting Canik is a townie?

 

Can I have a more elaborate analysis on your thoughts on Canik?

 

To be honest, I thought Canik was more townie when he first came out and offered decent analysis but since then it seems as though he's just following other peoples arguments so I don't have a clear read on him. However my point still stands. Facts vs interpretations and opinions.

[Lyner]

Last game by Kevin is also a role madness, but there is a Vanilla Townie that has a hidden ability and a Neapolitan that can be used to detect Vanillas

 

Kevin, as we all know, an experienced GM, even thinks that it is probable that there is at least one vanilla is present, and more so considering TW uses the same roles template as the last game. TW even included the sample role PM of a Vanilla townie in the OP.

 

The fact is that we don't know anything and any proof of scumminess in Rhizo is purely from his behaviour, suggesting anything otherwise is forcing your biased opinion.

 

Want to revise your opinion?

 

 

 

 

 

Be prepared to make yourself the most suspicious then and lose the game for town.

I am fairly convinced you are actually town after comments like those Lyner, scum would know I'm town and so obviously leading a lynch on me would be a mistake for you.

But if you are town you're screwing up bad. Shah thought Imran was showing undue aggression towards Avater. He read too much into it, thought he had a scum on the ropes, and in the heated debate that followed he wasn't perfect. Made a mistake or two (misquoted someone I think), but nothing that revealed his was scum.

Now you & Imran are reading too much into that, and are going to be extremely disappointed if you are town.

 

I already did since yesterday

 

If we want a certain kill then we should wait until cop got all the scums, unfortunately that is improbable. The only thing we can do is make a case and let the town judges

 

And the lack of motivations to lynch you only suggests that you're scum and your scum friends are hesitating whether to save you or distance themselves, well except FB

[Rafay]

Avater has only 5 posts the whole game D3mon has only 2 posts the whole game

 

What??!!! No kidding? 2 posts in the whole game!!!

 

Vote: d3mon 

 

wakey wakey.....

[Chaplain of death]

Last game by Kevin is also a role madness, but there is a Vanilla Townie that has a hidden ability and a Neapolitan that can be used to detect Vanillas

 

Kevin, as we all know, an experienced GM, even thinks that it is probable that there is at least one vanilla is present, and more so considering TW uses the same roles template as the last game. TW even included the sample role PM of a Vanilla townie in the OP.

 

The fact is that we don't know anything and any proof of scumminess in Rhizo is purely from his behaviour, suggesting anything otherwise is forcing your biased opinion.

 

Want to revise your opinion?

 

So in his opinion based entirely on other games and not on the facts available to us so far this game there could be VT's? Therefore I'm wrong? Nice try dood but I deal in facts. not opinions. when you feel like proving yourself a townie you should do the same. The facts indicate role madness which implies no VT's. Is that in and of itself a fact? No. But with all the facts available to us it would be most likely.

[Mandarijn]

Quoted for ease of looking at Mandarijn's slow progression.  

 

1.  believes I'm town yet could be Godfather, wont say more

2.  Acts pro town by not wanting to reveal what he found as it could be detrimental, but again states he think's I'm town but throws in Godfather again

3.  Seemingly want to find out if there is more then 1 VT

4.  Comes out with what he finds while earlier stating he wouldn't, twice, and explaining why he wouldn't.

5.  Suddenly now he starts looking at me as scum...though all along he was the one to keep tossing up Godfather.  It wasn't like someone else mentioned the idea of Godfather and started to make him think differently.  Seemingly fishing for others to confirm or deny anyone else doesn't have a PR

Rhizo, I made the mistake to go off of this that I learned last game:

"A Godfather is a role that investigates as Innocent (or some other favorable result) to Cops, regardless of their actual alignment."

 

But then Ali showed me the Role Cop link and there it clearly shows that the Role Cop would succesfully identify the Godfather, but would get "Vanilla" for a normal scum without a role (I thought it was the other way around). And I didn't know that, that's why I screwed up with giving my results and didn't really had any other choice than to give the actual result, because if I didn't it would only confuse the town... It's still very probable that you're scum actually. But like Yehom said, maybe it's better to wait to see if a VT gets killed (to confirm it's not a role madness game) and then you're probably town. If not, then you'll be lynched as you're scum then...

[Imran Ehsan]

I am pretty sure Rhizo is scum. Walls of texts to make anyones head spin but not enough quality content. Did he post what his opinion is on Canik? I just see a quick little FOS list where he added Canik to be on the safe side if Canik turns up scum. He is trying too hard to throw suspicion on Mandarijn as well. A scum never wants too many confirmed towns in a game, it makes their jobs harder for mislynches in later days. So he is attacking Mand which will also discredit the Kevin-is-town result. By the way, can you link where you mentioned you had a VT role before Mandarijn posted his results?

 

So I am fine with a Rhizo lynch as well. I get CODs points. Rather lynch the one acting very scummily than the active one who is at least posting somewhat reasonable justifications. Also there is the added benefit of no PR will get lynched if Rhizo is in fact town. I think both Lyner and COD are townies fighting amongst each other at this point but oif course I may be wrong and we will only know for sure once we lynch either Rhizo or Canik because people have been taking sides with their lynches.

 

So at kevin and others voting for Avater, your reasons are sounds as well to take out the lurker who is probably scum, but I think we will get more info to base our lynch on the next day by lynching either Rhizo or Canik.

[Canik]

And the lack of motivations to lynch you only suggests that you're scum and your scum friends are hesitating whether to save you or distance themselves, well except FB

 

lol what? There are are 11 town (assuming 5 scum), the lack of motivations to lynch me seems to suggest your arguments just aren't that strong.

[Lyner]

 

And the lack of motivations to lynch you only suggests that you're scum and your scum friends are hesitating whether to save you or distance themselves, well except FB

 

lol what? There are are 11 town (assuming 5 scum), the lack of motivations to lynch me seems to suggest your arguments just aren't that strong.

 

 

There are 4 inactives so the actual active townies excluding you and I are mere 5 people, and half of them are distracted with the Rhizo debacle

 

Actually it doesn't matter, my statement stands that scums wouldn't miss this kind of chance (two townies fighting each other), since there are nobody who tried to slip in, then it means one of us isn't town, or something fishy is going on.