459 replies to this topic

[Mandarijn]

I said it about D3, but I can see the confusion in my wording with "previous days", where I meant RL days.  

 

Like I said, I'm not 100% sold on you, but if I had to choose someone it would be you.

 

You and Canik both put eachother on spot 4 (= last spot), you both were 'pushing' for that all the inactives/lurkers were scum, ... Those are all indications that you're tied to eachother. Besides that you played differently from the start, just like Rafay did. (and you don't have to give me the explanation that you change your game play every game as that's impossible )

 

But meh at the inactives and lurkers. Next games I play I will ALWAYS push for a lynch on them on D1 and even D2... As every game they are here in the end and they jeopardise the town win. 

[Rhizoctonia]

I have to agree at this point with Mandarijn.  I'm pretty solid on the 2 of the 3 scums (Rafay/Canik)..the third is up in the air, and as I already pointed out, there are different ways to look at things that makes the 3 remaining in my eyes, scummy.  I've pointed them out already of those.  I'm not as sold on the 3rd as I am the other 2 scum, but if I had to guess at this point, I'd say CoD.

 

I am not sure, but I have to look at what is available to me and make my best guess.  There is a few suspicious things with CoD that leads me to bump him up to #3.

 

1.  Different playing style.  Sure, I get that, it's probably good to play different so it's harder for people to know from game to game.  That being said, playing different to me doesn't mean you're town or not, and simply stating you're playing differently is easy to say if really you're trying to do so to not draw attention you're scum.

 

2.  Mandarijn's point about both you and Canik's top 3.  Neither have the other in top 3, seemingly keeping them to the #4 slot if anything.  Both of you are the ones who are trying to push a lynch on Isocialism.  Now you can say it's a setup by Canik to try to make you look scummish, but I don't really believe so, as Canik has voted Isocialism the past 2 days, it's not really a surprise he jumps on him.  Also out of whose left, your real options to push a misylnch if both are scum is WB/Isocialism.

 

3.  Was involved in Mislynch of Robert..already 2 townies (Mand/KH) 1 scum (Rafay) was on that lynch...was there a 3rd town or 2 scums?

 

4.  You mention that this is the first time you and Canik have been linked.  I disagree, as I already pointed out, you quickly removed your vote off Fermion (at the time) once he was gaining steam and both Imran/ABT voted him and me saying I was likely going to go Fermion/Whitebeard.  Now you've explained yourself and I'm not necessarily saying I believe you're not telling the whole truth, but when other things seem a bit odd it makes me question it.  Could you be telling the truth, or did you remove it because a scum buddy was gaining a lot of steam (which Canik seems to be scum)?  I  don't know, I can't know for sure.  Like to take your word for it, but then other things make me second guess it.

 

Now, your not posting on D2 much I'm not really going to hold as evidence you're scum or town.  I can understand losing interest in the long posts by everyone, especially if you miss a day, and for that I do apologize (Why I was thinking about sitting the HP game out).  My intention isn't for people to not enjoy the game..thus I haven't tried to do so this day (besides this post), and hopefully going forward as best as I can.  

 

For me, at this very point, I have less feeling Isocialism is scum, especially with Canik trying to lynch him a few times, so that leaves you and WB for the 3rd, and honestly, at the moment you beat out WB IMO.  I could very well be wrong, but I am going on what I'm feeling and that's you at this point.  Which is why I agree with Mandarijn's idea's about what the Vig should do tonight depending on what role Canik has....either target Rafay if Canik is Doctor, and if he's not, pick between you or Rafay and make the scum decide who to save.  But that is left up to KH to do what he feels is right thing to do.

[Chaplain of death]

Really isn't impossible. Its quite easy. Just because you choose to approach the game the same way each time doesn't mean that I do. Besides if I changed my game play because Im scum, then I'm absolutely garbage (which the win/loss thread would tend to disagree), because its blatantly obvious how different my game play is. 

 

You are convinced that Rafay is scum because hes lurking, yet attack me for believing the same. Interesting. I don't disagree with Rafay being scum obviously, but I find it odd that having similar thinking makes me scum and makes you town.

 

I put Canik where I did based on the fact that most of the evidence of his scummy behavior came after that post, he was suspicious but not locked in as scum in my mind. The fact that I put him number 4 was based on my opinion that the scum were lurking. iSoc had made some scummy posts IMO (thinking hes just not thinking hard about how screwed the town is without the cops results but w/e). WB and Rafay have been lurking hardcore, and were able to do so because of that huge argument between a bunch of townies. I fail to see how any of that makes me scum. If I were scum with Canik I wouldn't have even put him on the list, especially since we were only asked for the top 3. You are drawing a bunch of conclusions based on seemingly random coincidences. We both put each other number 4, not in any way a safe spot when theres 3 scum in the game, just saying. If we were scum we probably would have put each other number 2 so that when one of us turned up scum, the other one would be relatively safe. You can go ahead and night kill me if you want instead of investigating (the smart choice), but chances are the town will lose if you do. (as I pointed out before, the math is not in our favor if we kill a townie.)

An educated guess based off of what? Someone else's behavior? I engaged with Canik on Day 1. How do I defend myself from the behavior of another? My votes lead you to believe I am scum? I voted for Robert because we didn't have enough information but I believed that a Day 1 lynch was in our best interest this game considering the setup (perhaps Im wrong). Day 2 I still felt like we didn't have enough information to go on to really single someone out but believed that Lynching someone in that massive clusterfuck would lead to the town having more information to work off for this day. Unfortunately it seems all the people involved in that were just misled townies in a heated argument that escalated. 

 

My posts have been fairly consistent. I don't get all that much time online these days between work and life, so when everyone was posting a 5 page essay about how because this person used this word in this sentence, they are scum, I kind of tuned out. I know that doing so unintentionally hurt the town, but you guys made this game a time suck that was not fun. I'm here to have fun, if I cannot do so there is no point. Now that people aren't doing that, I'm more active (along with that fact that being one of 5 townies, I'm kind of obligated to just suck it up at this point).

 

In previous days plenty of other people were asking questions as well. Day 2 ABT and KH furthered the discussion plenty. As I stated above, I did not on day 2, but others did. So saying you were the only one asking questions is a falsehood. 

 

Rhizo I'm not posting walls so please read the posts before posting accusations I've already addressed and just ignoring my explanation. I never claimed we had no link (that I remember anyway). I claimed that in fact there was a link because I came out and defended him on day 1 because I wasn't as positive as you all seemed to be at the time. It would appear I was wrong, but I stood up for my the conclusions I was drawing. Seems odd that I would stick my neck out so far for someone on DAY 1 if we were both scum. Thats just bad play as a scum. He wasn't really in THAT much danger.

 

You really think 2 scum would jump on the lynch wagon for an inactive? why in the actual fuck?

A link so far as we had engaged in discussion.* I did not ignore Canik all game, by any means.

[Mandarijn]

unvote

 

I don't want to end the day early and deprive us of 3 days of discussion. 

 

 

I find it odd that you point out a link between Canik and I, and he can see the writing on the wall for himself, and then he immediately votes on iSoc with me. Considering you just drew up a plan in which I should be killed if Canik is scum, (when the only link between Canik and I is that before day 3 I wasn't seeing much scummy behavior from him (perhaps I was just not paying enough attention during the essays)) it just seems strange that he would then make your case stronger if I was actually scum. I'm trying to wrap my head around why a scum would so thoroughly set up another scum to be killed after they are lynched, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. What does make sense is setting up a townie to get killed so that they don't fall behind and keep pressure on us.

 

Canik's only defense for himself is that a VT said he thought that Canik was a townie before he died. If that person had been a cop then that would be relevant, but Ali didn't have any extra information from which to base his opinion. 

 

I'm still suspicious of iSoc, but it appears pretty evident at this point that Canik is scum. Hopefully the cop survives the night since they chose not to claim today.

This was your 1st post where you suspected Canik, why the sudden change? What did he do?

 

I agree with Rhizo that it's either CoD or WB, WB is inactive, so you're all we have unfortunately, which is a shame really...

Or of course Canik played it smart and voted for his scum buddy iSoc every day, but I think that's a bit risky. But it's still possible of course.

 

 

KH can decide what he does if Canik isn't the doc:

- kill Rafay (100% scum)

- kill CoD

- don't kill any one (I think this is fine as well, it will be 3 active townies against 2 scum + 1 inactive)

- kill someone else

[Rhizoctonia]

I don't know where I attacked you for you believing Rafay is scum for lurking.  You voted Isocialism, for which Canik has voted him now the past 2 days, and you two are the only ones who have voted him today (he isn't going to be lynched likely at this point), along with both of you have him as #1 on your list.  You can't say Canik looked to frame you there, you posted your top 3 after Canik.  

 

Changing playing styles means nothing to me.  All that does is make it harder for me to guess what role you're playing.  This doesn't make you somehow town in my eyes.  Nor do I know how you played scum before, and you could be changing from that this game.  You've already told ABT you played aggressive as a Scum before...so who knows, you could be changing from that.  You saying a couple times now you change how you play isn't doing anything to help me think you're not scum, it only tells me if you change so often it's hard to know for sure what role you're.  Again, it makes for you to be a good Mafia player no matter if you're scum or town because no one can be sure just going off gameplay, but it also does nothing to help your case when I can't differentiate your playing style as a town or a scum.  

 

I also don't think scum has sat there and all just lurked.  Likely at least 1, which is Rafay...maybe 2 with WB, which is why he's still in running for #3 besides you because of that and his Day 1 response.

 

I don't see how putting Canik on your list, or you on his at #4 spot would be a negative thing to do as scum.  You guys both adding each other at #4 at least shows you put their name down as suspicious, at least mention each other, but off your top 3.  I don't see how it would benefit scum more to only put 3 names and not mention Canik, then listing top 3 but squeezing in Canik at the bottom just to mention they're not out of the question in your eyes (in case they're found to be scum).  

 

I'm also not relying on the cop for tomorrow either.  I believe the scum likely have a 1/3 or better chance of hitting the cop, so relying on the cop to deliver the results of investigating tonight is not something I'm going to bank on.  The cop either wants to try one more night, or doesn't have much to tell us.  Hopefully he survives, but I'm not holding my breath on it.  

 

They maybe random coincidences, but are you saying when there starts to be a trend of coincidences, that shouldn't catch someone's attention?  I'm trying to find the 3rd scum, I have to look at what's available and start trying to narrow it down.  I feel I've narrowed it down to 2, so for me, I have 50% of mislynching on the 3rd.  I have to make an educated guess.  I very well could be wrong, I have been already this game, but doesn't mean I'm not going to put my input out.  If town decided to go WB I'd go with them, he's still 1 of the 2  have it down to, but he's not my top 3rd choice.

[Rhizoctonia]

If Canik is scum....he also said day 2

 

Rafay & Whitehead are both quite inactive and need to get participate more, definitely encourage pressure on them. At least they've made votes and a couple of posts though.

iSocialism however is still the least active. Not voting at all, don't think he's posted at all today.

I think Whitehead & iSocialism are probably the best choices for now.

Vote: iSocialism

 

 

If we're suggesting who Canik calls out his likely town, he called out both WB and Isocialism on day 2.  He lists both Rafay/Whitebeard/Isocialism as all inactive, yet says later on Isocialism/Whitebeard are probably the best choices for now yet excludes Rafay from that list for doing the same.  

[iSocialism]

I know that the town will be at a disadvantage if he was to be killed at night. But the fact that he hasn't come forward either means. He's inactive or doesn't want to come forward. The reason he doesn't want to come forward is because he has nothing to provide or that he doesn't think it will help anyone. I was just more against the cop coming out before we decided who to lynch. Which I stated many times. The fact that you waited for a town player (IMO) to come forward and disagree with me. Then try to jump in and act like you were totally against me and felt like I was scum and push hard for my lynch. That Is the reason you are high on my scum list. Meanwhile you were posting before and talking about my post before that town player came forward.

 

By all the commotion that has been caused by this day I'm pretty sure I know who the cop is, and most likely the scum do as well. I think he will be targeted tonight, but he will also be saving the vig for another night doing so. It since it's between two people. I think the scum will also have a 50/50 shot at hitting him, so it's best for him not to come forward unless. He has any additional info that will surely help the town. I think it's up to him if he wants to come forward.

 

I really wish you would vote Canik already and stop delaying his death. The info to be had toady, has already been had. We will gain more by tomorrow.

[SeaBeeGipson]

Wow alot has happened pretty fast. I'm still not 100% convinced about Canik, but he is a good person to figure out what to do.

I'm unsure whether to kill tonight.
In the event Canik is town, I have no choice to try and hit scum to keep town alive.
In the event he's scum, I could kill another townie and not know what situation I put us in.
I could also not do a kill, but being the only confirmed PR (killing the Jailkeeper was a huge misfire.) I feel I'm target #1 and have no means to protect myself.

It does put scum in a hard place though.
They kill me, cop gets 1 more result.
They kill someone else, they run the risk of missing the cop. Putting them in a bad spot. Or they hit the cop but I get 1 more night action and could, worst case if I'm doing my math right, end the game in a tie.

I'm not sure who would be a good night target though. I'm almost positive WB is scum but with such limited posting, I can't be sure.

[iSocialism]

It's not much as in hitting scum, but also not hitting a power role, or something that would provide more info. If it clears thing up and draw a better line of who whose. Such as me

[Rhizoctonia]

I can't tell you what to do KH.  Unfortunately for you, that final decision really is yours to make on how you want to play it depending on what comes out after Canik's lynch.

 

You obviously understand that you have to look to kill at night if Canik turns up town (highly doubt), that is a for sure.

 

I believe you should 100% kill Rafay tonight if Canik comes up as the scum doctor

 

If Canik is scum and not the doctor....then it really is up to you.  I think you should leave the idea of you Vig killing open, forcing the scum's hand to use their doctor role, but who you are targeting or between what two people, that's your call.  I, like you, can't be certain 100%, I am only expressing my opinion on who I'd pick between.

 

My biggest worry at this point is WB is town and we need him to cast a vote to help win. It does suck we don't have full participation from people so we stand the best chance.  

[Chaplain of death]

I voted for iSoc after he advocated for the town having less info by the cop (who he admits is likely to die tonight) not claiming, but never did i push a wagon on him. I attempted to pressure him into slipping up (if hes scum) but he didn't really engage with the discussion other than to acuse me of a wagon (which didn't happen).

And if you can't see how putting each other at number 4 if we are both scum could be a stupid move while advocating i be Vig killed because of it then i don't understand how the fuck you scum hunt.


And no Rhizo, im saying it SHOULD catch your attention. All of these pieces coming together right at the end as Canik is in position to be lynched. How does that not strike the too good to be true chord with you? You have to evaluate what you see, and the fact that the scum will be trying to paint a false picture for us so that we lynch/vig kill the wrong people.

[Mandarijn]

Wow alot has happened pretty fast. I'm still not 100% convinced about Canik, but he is a good person to figure out what to do.

I'm unsure whether to kill tonight.
In the event Canik is town, I have no choice to try and hit scum to keep town alive.
In the event he's scum, I could kill another townie and not know what situation I put us in.
I could also not do a kill, but being the only confirmed PR (killing the Jailkeeper was a huge misfire.) I feel I'm target #1 and have no means to protect myself.

It does put scum in a hard place though.
They kill me, cop gets 1 more result.
They kill someone else, they run the risk of missing the cop. Putting them in a bad spot. Or they hit the cop but I get 1 more night action and could, worst case if I'm doing my math right, end the game in a tie.

I'm not sure who would be a good night target though. I'm almost positive WB is scum but with such limited posting, I can't be sure.

Canik will turn up scum, together with Rafay, it's just the 3rd scum that we're not entirely sure off.

[Canik]

 

 

Ali's quote was mainly that your and KH vote on Imran were deciding, because he thought Imran was town (if I remember correctly).

King Hitler, we'll need your vote on Canik as well, before the 3rd scum puts another vote on iSoc...

"Canik, KH seem to be townies (they're in the minority that seem to care
about town's future) and they had mild clashes with TW/Rhizo, which is
sort of an indicator they're not in the same team."

http://ironcentral.org/community/topic/57112-kh-12-sharing-is-caring-mafia-day-3/?p=862132

No he specifically said he thought KH & I were town. So my point stands, as do the rest of my points. Yet despite there being nothing anywhere close to evidence I'm scum and plenty of indication I'm town everyone just remembers there was early controversy around me. Nevermind that it was all debunked and silly to begin with.

Have fun following the scum narrative and making another mislynch. KH make sure to use your power tonight it will be town's last shot at getting another day.

Yes, he says it's sort of an indicator they're not in the same team. TW/Rhizo are town, so it's indeed an indication you're scum.

/me facepalms

Love how you ignore that AbT did in fact say he thought KH & I were town and try to twist it into an indication I am scum. Why the spin? Why not meet me with honest and logical arguments? I know you're smarter than that. AbT clearly meant we're not on a team that realizes it is a team. Towns never act like they're on a team with anyone (barring freemason/neighbor modifiers). So not seeming like I was in league with them, despite 1 of them showing up town, is still no indication that I'm scum. That is faulty logic through and through.

 

Lots of faulty logic today, even Rhizo pointed out one or two logic lines you posted did not prove what you claimed they did. Maybe he thought you were pushing too hard and being too obvious. Yes I am implying you & Rhizo may be a scum team. You keep insisting he is town but there is no evidence of this. It's weird how sure you are of it.. like you're trying to reinforce the idea. I'm still suspicious of everyone unconfirmed, there is no reason for a true town to not be, as we don't know who is on our team.

[KevinH]

Vote Count:

Canik (4): Mandarijn, Rhizoctonia, King Hitler, iSocialism,
iSocialism (1): Canik,
Whitebeard (0):
Rafay (0):
King Hitler (0):
Rhizoctonia (0):
Chaplain of Death (0):
Mandarijn (0)

No lynch (0):

Not voting: Whitebeard, Rafay, Chaplain of Death,

 

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch, or 3 at deadline.
Deadline is Wednesday, June 22, at 12:00 EDT. (20.5 hours from now)

[iSocialism]

From my POV, I think KH is the vig, if he is truly not, then we're screwed either way. Because that means that the vig is inactive, or doesn't realize the confirmed scum lynch, via RC, and another night kill option. This is too unlikely and in my mind far fetch. it could be possible the WB went inactive scum figured out he was the vig and use that to buy some creed, however there was a second NK this last night. So this doesn't even make sense. KH is definitely the vig. Still in my POV, I'm town which leaves us with 2 other votes on Canik's wagon and the question of why the third scum hasn't happily decided to place the third vote, if Canik isn't scum. Assuming that the other two scum are Rhiz and Mandi. Again very very unlikely.

 

Canik is lynched

Rafay will most likely be lynched

and the dead vig or a dead cop in the morning.

[Rhizoctonia]

Rafay may not get killed if Canik is not doctor and they protect Rafay if Vig goes him though. Why providing people's best feeling who is the 3rd scum at least gives KH another option besides Rafay and makes scum choose who. But really, do they have to choose? Can a scum Doctor protect themself? If they can't, with 2 scum they only have 1 option on who to protect.

And if there was any doubt in my mind Canik was scum, he just made it clear he was.

[Canik]

And if there was any doubt in my mind Canik was scum, he just made it clear he was.

What's clear if that you would say that no matter what I said. It is the smart thing to do. Don't engage, just reinforce that whatever I say is scummy. Easy pickins. Well it was fun while it lasted. Very well played scum.

[Mandarijn]

I still think it's CoD.

 

But depending on what role Canik will turn up, KH will have a though decision to make.

[SeaBeeGipson]

I've already made my decisions based on Canik's role. Whether he turns up town, scum, or doctor. I have a choice for all 3 that I'd feel comfortable with.

Let's hope im right.

[KevinH]

Day 3 ends.

Vote Count:

Canik (4): Mandarijn, Rhizoctonia, King Hitler, iSocialism,
iSocialism (1): Canik,
Whitebeard (0):
Rafay (0):
King Hitler (0):
Rhizoctonia (0):
Chaplain of Death (0):
Mandarijn (0)

No lynch (0):

Not voting: Whitebeard, Rafay, Chaplain of Death,

 
Canik, Mafia Y-shot Framer, has been lynched.

It is now Night 3.

Please send night actions to me by Friday, June 24, at 12:00 EDT.