vgmmaster

Being a Star Wars theme game, is our policy lynch to lynchall trekkies or just people who don't know Star Wars lore? Also, lots of new people (or at least people I don't recognize). So... Vote: Jazzy

I knew GoldIron was inactive, but damn. Two posts and his last post was on page 4: Post #30 Post #74 I'll first start off by saying that I was never the biggest fan of lynching inactives in the sense that provided they're town, it gets scum off the hook scot-free. It's also easier to vote an inactive and be able to keep suspiciousness down on the basis that 'it's an inactive townie, he's doing us no good anyways'. While that is true to an extent, and there are times I'm somewhat down with that, I also feel we have better lynch candidates as well this early in the game. That said, with lynching being our only true power as town, if he's not helping town, it's better than a no lynch. Later in the game, nothing lets scum get away easier than inactive townies. Getting to the posts on hand, some of it's already been touched on. The second post is your typical newbie defense. Already been explained multiple times that being new has nothing to do with anything. Although considering how inactive GoldIron has seemingly been inactive as a whole*, I'm reading it more as newbie jitterbugs. The first post was also touched on briefly, but not necessarily GI's role in it (iirc). GI was the third vote in the "impeach Canik" vote train. One could argue this as bandwagoning. There's also the fact it was only hours after Frigid's vote. Even though I kind of gave Frigid crap for it, I don't necessarily think they're connected. OOC - Can anyone attest to how inactive GoldIron has been as a whole? Don't think it's possible to search nations if you don't have one yourself so can't speak to inactivity on that front. I did see he only has 18 posts on the forums though. Can't attest to when his last overall post was with limited forum access.

On mobile, so not going to try quoting posts: Re: Kevin voting - my statement on Kevin was a joke. When I did an unofficial vote count, I wanted the post to be just that and not discussion on twenty other things. See Frigid, that is comedic timing. As for not wanting to end the day early, it was a few days and several pages since a vote count was last done. While I can't speak for Kevin, I was certainly confused were the current votes we're situated. Re: Kitkat Love Pyramid / Comedy Club - if you read the first part of that post, I even acknowledge that it was a flawed plan at best with a low statistical chance of being legit. All I wanted was to look at both sides of the coin and get the thought out there since who knows if I'll live long enough to see day 2. I believe Brewers initially ruled out his own thought, but it could have more merit than he initially realized. Plus, Kit Kat seems adamant it was a joke. Could be trying to save his own hide. And I fully admit that even though I realize Kitkat jokes half the time, maybe I don't fully understand his sense of humor. That said, flawed plan or not, I don't think you can disagree that lynching KitKat is the worst in the world. Just depends on who in the love pyramid you side with most. Heck, I'd say best candidates right now our either KitKat, frigid, or goldiron (based on the inactive policy). Keep in mind this is before rereading the thread. Speaking of, is it possible to get goldiron pinged? Mk?

Haven't had a chance to go back through the thread like I promised yesterday like I had hoped. That said, when compiling the unofficial vote count, two things stood out that I want to point out. Joke post on Canik. I made the same joke vote on Canik back on page 1. This is on page 8 (post #157). At this point, the time for joke votes is over. Plus your comedic timing is off. Thing to remember is, he made the same joke vote once before back on page two (post #28) and within hours of GoldIron's vote on Canik as well putting Canik to three at the time early. One other thing that has rubbed me the wrong way. Lord MK's clarification post about any punishment for outing mafia members. In it, he says if the mafia agree to it, it could be used as a strategy and wouldn't invoke a punishment. Now, I don't necessarily think it was a mafia ploy. Truth is, it's risky as hell and if Kitkat is indeed scum it could easily bite them in the ass. But let's play devil's advocate. Others can attest to this better than I can, but I realize The Warrior is experienced in mafia. I know Kitkat and Robert have both played mafia, but can't attest to their experience necessarily (I think this is the first game I played with Robert iirc). What I'm getting at is this. I don't know if Kitkat would come up with a ploy like that on his own, but I wouldn't put it past The Warrior. With the mafia day talk, I could see a scenario where the Warrior connives the plan and tell Kitkat to post it, thinking we'd write it off as one of Kitkat's joke posts. I haven't had reason to suspect Robert / The Warrior in the early game, but when I go back through the thread, I'll be paying extra close attention to them. At least their posts should be easily dissect-able. I'm still scared of trying to reread the love pyramid.

Unofficial Vote Count: legoboyvdlp (2): Robert2424, SeaBeeGipson GoldIron (2): The Warrior, Canik KitKat16 (1): lachiton, legoboyvdlp Canik (1): GoldIron, FrigidInferno FrigidInferno (1): vgmmaster Lachiton (1): KitKat16 The Warrior (1): Rafay SeaBeeGipson (0): Robert2424 (0): Brewersalliance (0): KevinH (0): Vgmmaster (0): Rafay (0): iSocialism (0): No Lynch (0): Not Voting: brewersalliance, KevinH, iSocialism I'm just as surprised as you guys are Kevin took his vote off of No Lynch.

OOC: Really hating these overnight shifts this week. Only two more to go and hopefully I can get out of this constant mental fog I'm feeling right now. Seems the thread exploded a bit between being at work and taking a nap these past few hours. I'll have to try and go back through it at some point tomorrow and try to make sense of it all. So iSoc has already been touched on a bit. Been mentioned already that his posts up to this point are fluff. More interestingly his posts #154 and #156 (which were after the quote). No relevant content in either post, but it seems iSoc is either screwing with us or went off the deep end quoting game theory and wonder his post #156 was supposed to be. That said, I'd like to touch on something I've always believed. So often I see people saying, "oh, it's day 1, there's nothing to go on". Yes, there's nothing concrete to ever go on, but if you wait for the concrete to pour, you may be waiting forever. However, you have to look at interactions and see where your gut lies. With the whole Kitkat love pyramid going on, it's who do you believe more. Do you think Kitkat is the scummiest of all people ever or do you think maybe Brewers is the one to target? Or do you think a no lynch is the way to go? (which you'd be wrong). Also, one last tidbit in the Frigid files that happened to catch my eye before attempting to dissect everything later: Post #145 - Legit question, but how does one screw up day / night phases that badly? I understand you're new to forum mafia, but does it not follow the same day / night phases as Town of Salem? However, doing a quick skim back, it does match with his post #43 in terms of day / night cycle screw ups, so there is that.

​Who remembers that scum can talk during the day? Scum, that's who. ​But you did post a lot and could just be a town who really wants to win. So I won't bother you more about it.. for now. ​I hope GoldIron posts more soon. It doesn't have to be real in-depth analysis or anything but let us know you'll be decently active. Otherwise it is very tempting to lynch him and just see. And It's always good to read up on the rules before every game. Just because you know how to play doesn't mean an individual mod doesn't have their own personal rules they like to include. On the flip side, with all the power roles floating around, it could be a way to help give the mafia a slight push to fight against the (in theory) powerful town. For rule reference: Bullet point #7 under the rules on the first post. I played legit one game with you, so my answer is def not a No. i truly have no idea what your play style is. also Fos on Frigid for both a no lynch vote, saying leave kitkat alive, and for commenting that KevinH's post was a joke after i already did so and was met with a "townie points for you" reply from KevinH (i think frigid did that to hopefully gain these make believe townie points to cover up his scum role) So we all know that KitKat could not have outed both Robert and TW as scum if KitKat is indeed scum. my personal propsal is we lynch kitkat. if kitkat ends up being scum, then we know 100% that both robert and tw are town so we can completely remove them from any lynch votes, thus increasing our chances of getting scum. Sure kitkat could be town, but odds are we are gonna hit town anyway, so i feel that the potential to eliminate two suspects completely if kitkat is indeed scum is worth the risk here vote: Kitkat Sound reasoning from Brewers here and a possible path I agree with. Kitkat for sure is on the short list of voting candidates. But I want to ask something about the underlined part. I understand that it's against the rules to out you your teammates, but here's my question. Where is the line? Is it a zero tolerance policy? Or are there grey lines depending on the way the post is constructed. What I mean is, it seems to be a common occurrence (to my understanding) that Kitkat is a bit of a joker. Maybe more than others. Could he word his post a certain way, write it off as a joke, and get off scot-free? As opposed to "oh I'm going to die, btw, my mafia partners are Y & Z" which would clearly be against the spirit of the game. Of course, it could be a scum tactic to get you to vote an obvious townie? Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I wouldn't say it clears The Warrior / Robert. Unless it is in fact a zero tolerance policy, then you would have a point.

Considering SBG is always scum, that may not be a bad option. That said, not to give the inactives a free pass, but with Christmas being next week, it wouldn't be the most shocking if people were busier than normal in real life this time of year. But having limited forum access, you guys can attest to people's activity better than I can.

I understand it's forbidden. However, I'm not saying I believe Robert / The Warrior to be scum with you. My suspicion lies in the lego / frigid camp right now.

Randomness doesn't care if you're a new player or not. Heck, I was a Serial Killer in my 2nd or 3rd game ever which isn't the easiest role to win with. To answer your question about why people are saying scum over mafia, in this particular game there isn't a difference and can be used interchangeably. But basically boils down to this. If people refer to the mafia, they're referring to a group of scum players. But the mafia is scum. Just as a serial killer would be scum (but woudn't be mafia).

Brain's a bit mush right now as I'm not used to working overnights (which I'm doing all week) so I feel like I'm forgetting something. That said, some of what stands out to me on a first read of what I've missed. Quoting for reference. Inclined to believe this is just Kitkat being Kitkat, but could be doubling down on his joking matter. Something about the Kitkat shenanigans leaves a bad taste in my mouth. First of all, what possible information can Kitkat have that's worth keeping alive to day 2 for? If he's scum, it's one hell of a risk sacrificing a scum partner like that. If Robert (or The Warrior) is town, it proves nothing with any knowledge Kitkat has or doesn't have. The only info he would have right now is who his scum buddies are (and in effect who the town is) if Kitkat is scum. Also in the Kitkat camp: Why would you vote Robert when KitKat was the one who said it? If KitKat said it, hoping you'd lynch him as he mentioned two townies, so we'd follow suit and lynch them both, why would we start with Robert? Why would recommend leaving KitKat to Day 2? Are you insinuating the cop should investigate KitKat? That requires 1 - no one to block the cops ability or no roles to alter KitKat's results, and 2) us to have a cop. Unvote Vote Lego I fail to see your logic here I chose Robert randomly from between The Warrior and Robert. I believed it was best to leave Kitkat alone to see a) what information he is alluding to on day 2 and if he is lying or not, depending on what investigative roles there are in the game. It will be clear if his information regarding Robert proves to be false. On the other hand, an investigative role could also investigate the named people tonight, but that also depends on exactly those points which you mentioned. Just so you know, those sunglasses were meant to be b ), but turns out to be short for the sunglasses emoticon. I can't edit it to fix it. I also believe that kitkat should be investigated night 2, considering the fact that if kit IS mafia, kit might be making a bluff to get rid of two non-mafia. So if someone investigates the others and finds them inno, we can move on to other sus rather than lynching them. Not sure if what I said makes sense but imo the warrior and robert are now the last on my sus list. I'll try to sum it up: Kit comes out as mafia, it turns out kit IS actually mafia, so now we are desperate to lynch/kill tw and robert, who, for all we know, could be the more powerful townies or at the other end of the spectrucm, a fruit vendor and a neighborizer. Then theres the other side where tw and robert ARE mafia, but we think kit is bluffing so we do nothing at all. Im just putting this out here I'm not outright saying that all three of these people are mafia, but this whole exchange with Lego / Frigid / Kitkat is rubbing me the wrong way. Both Frigid and Lego are saying it's best to not do anything to Kitkat until day two? But why? I happened to notice mention that Frigid has played a lot of Town of Salem which could lead to him possibly doing a risky maneuver. Considering the scum can talk during the day, we can't rule out some sort of collaboration attempt. Can't help but wonder if it's a sacrificial move of some kind. Maybe the scum all out themselves right away (intentionally or not) and hope to lost heat in a reverse psychology way of thinking. I'd like a bit of clarification here if possible. I've heard of Town of Salem, but unfamiliar with how it plays. What I mean is, I know "Werewolves" is more of an IRC variation which is played pretty fast. Unsure if Town of Salem is more of a slower paced game or a faster paced game. As for the wagon talk, I agree. Frigid and Iron's votes were only hours apart. In the case of GoldIron, it could just be a newbie not knowing better. Frigid's vote on Canik initially read as a joke vote, but now I'm considering the possibility that it was an early attempt to form a bandwagon. Unvote Vote Frigid And to clear up talk about the neighborizer role (since I recall it being asked), it's essentially a build your own mason group. The neighbor starts alone, but over time can build up his neighborhood similar to that of a cult. Whether or not there's restrictions is hard to guess as it's possible it's an X-shot or otherwise limited in power.

You mean to tell me I'm going to survive night one for once? Oh snap! /in

Just a heads up Frigid Jeff Halberg (and any other new player). Editing posts is against the rules.

I really don't see how some roles, like cop work with scum. I guess a doctor can protect a scum friend, but the cop is useless as scum, since the scum already know who everyone is, correct? The regular cop would essentially be powerless under scum control, you are correct. That said, it could be seen as a power play to try and remove the cop role from the town if a mafia member had a high bid. However, I don't see the redirector being a particularly powerful role, at least in the early game. Even in the other bid options, that same dilemma creates interesting scenarios. Does a person take a powerful role partially to prevent the other side from having it? Does a person avoid bidding on a role because the other possibility is seen as weak or even useless? For example, a night 3 vigilante would be useless for me to have because since when have I survived to see night 3? In all possibility, we could have less than 8 roles in play. Unless I misunderstood the bidding process, if everybody voted for only 1 of 2 numbers (as an example), there'd be only that number of roles in play. That's true, but we can't be sure of that. But you do agree that no lynch is not the best option for this setup, right? I can't think of a time I ever advocated for a no lynch. If anything, this setup I'd be even less inclined to vote no lynch (if that's actually possible). People might think we have tons of power at our disposal, but lots of things can go wrong at a moment's notice. Two vigilante possibilities could both whiff on scum. Paranoid Gun Owner could kill someone that tried to investigate or protect him (is thankfully one shot though for that reason). A vengeful townie could kill a townie that decided to hammer. And to top it all off, we may not even have a cop, but instead a redirector. And that's not considering the fact that mafia could have any of the roles I just mentioned as opposed to them being in town's hands.

In all possibility, we could have less than 8 roles in play. Unless I misunderstood the bidding process, if everybody voted for only 1 of 2 numbers (as an example), there'd be only that number of roles in play.

Vote: Canik Reasoning - He's obviously upset at the foreigners incorrectly translating the city signs. He's trying to blame them when in fact, it was the founder of this city who was facilitating the kills in secret. Fos: SBG - He's always scum. Somehow. Agreed about the roles for sure. Something to be careful of here is that a role that could be powerful under townie control could prove to be even deadlier under scum control. As for number of scum, you're probably right. Originally I was wondering the possibility of two scum factions with the number of power roles that could be in town hands, but the way the story folds out, I don't believe that to be the case anymore.

Signing up and claiming the bulletproof townie role.

The funny thing, if I lived on day two, there was a decent chance that we'd have lost MK on day 2. When at the end of day one he said for the cop and tracker to investigate him, sent red flags in my mind that he was the godfather. How very wrong I was. And has SBG ever been town?

I'm not necessarily saying you are scum, but you do feel the most suspicious of the ones who voted for KC. Of course, all three of you could all be townies for all I know. As for playstyles, I fully admit that I'm unfamiliar with the playstyles of most people here. Didn't last long in my first game back, and before then i think most people here weren't really around yet. But regardless, we'll get more answers soon. As for now, it is a bit reaching at straws.

End of day 1 is almost here, and some people I trust more than others. Before I get into some notes, one thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the VERY beginning of the game. I wouldn't out too much weight if any on timestamps, but it could be worth nothing that iSocialism and SBG both posted before the mafia chose their power role. Could be coincidental, but with how quickly we went from the pregame to the official start of day 0, it's worth a short mention. Not that it condemns either one necessarily. Bit of a quick skim, but trying to get a post out before passing out for the night. iSocialism - Somewhat factual with a good number of his posts. Probably the one player who I feel is the most townish otherwise. King Cankles - Has fallen off the face of the earth. Hasn't posted at all aside from his day 0 vote and his mention of posting later (a week ago). Kitkat16 - Non-silent kitkat = townie kitkat? Or = Reeses? brewersalliance - No strong feelings one way or the other. Lachiton - Some posts give away his newbieness and agreeing with a lot of people. Some questionable moves has him in the middle. Rafay - Uncooperative in his answers. Upon further enlightenment could be a language barrier? Has otherwise been not helpful as a whole. Lord MK - The one I probably flip flop on the most right now. Not particularly scummy, but feels off to me. Probably the one I suspect most on the KC bandwagon presently. SeaBeeGipson - Condemning a day one lynch, possible he's trying to save KC from being lynched? Led the train for cop / tracker on day 0. Experienced enough where I could see him being manipulative from the start. Was very quiet at the beginning of day 1. Also something, something perma scum. Depending how the King Cankles lynch goes (presuming that doesn't change last minute), my gut tells me right now that either MK or SBG is scum, but not both of them. Although admittedly not much to go on at the moment. Might not be a bad idea for the cop to investigate one of those two unless they would have a better idea.

SBG raises a good point about lynching an inactive (although a bad point about lynching nobody). I'll be more active after work tonight, so will try and get something then. In case the day ends early, I'll mention two things. One, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one scum on the bandwagon for KC (provided KC is town). If he's scum though, it could explain why there has been hesitation to lynch as he could have easily been lynched by now. Second thing, OOC question for Rafay. What country are you from?

430pm EDT is 830pm UTC. KC hasn't voted nor has he voiced any opinions. But how much of it is trying to stay under the radar and how much is him just not being available? As for Rafay, he has at least posted, although very little. Key thing to note here is most of his posts have been deflective or otherwise void of content.

Never seen a night last longer than 48 hours. You forget something there KC?

I might touch on some points isocialism is hitting already as we seem to be on the same wavelength to a degree and posting at the same time. That said: If we no lynch today, we'll essentially be randomly lynching tomorrow. Since it'll be a 'random' lynch, that means we should no lynch on day 2 as well, right? The thing is, nothing is ever a random lynch unless we always lynch SBG for the lols because he's always scum. When lulzy votes get thrown around all willy nilly, of course it'll be random. But we can analyze the day 0 posts, we can analyze the day one posts. We can see if when the two of us argue with each other if someone slips up and says something they shouldn't. We can put pressure on people with votes. When you no lynch, there's no pressure. If there's no pressure, the scum will feel safe. Look at it this way, we can mislynch twice and be fine, power roles or not. If we no lynch, we can only mislynch once. I'll never be a proponent for no lynch, but here's why I don't like it in this game. Leaving power roles out of the discussion, let's say on day 3, we're at 4 townies and 2 scum (due to a no lynch). If we mislynch, we lose. If we're in that situation and the power roles are still alive, we could no lynch again and give us another day. If the power roles are dead, we're in a rock and a hard place and we're back to where we started. But going back to our numbers, we'd only have a 33% chance of hitting scum on day 3 with six people alive. If we take advantage of our power as a town, we up that to 40%. That's not counting the power role usage. If we no lynch tonight, the scum are at power. The power roles are less likely to find mafia with more people being alive. If we lynch, let's say we hit scum. If it's the godfather, the cop can now investigate and always be positive in his result. If he hits scum on night one, game is over day 2 with a town win. If we hit scum, regardless on if it's the power role or not, it also benefits the tracker. The tracker can track the killer and can have another possible town win day 2. Let's face it, a lynch is the best move here. Just because Kevin isn't playing in this game doesn't mean you can take up his mantle as the residential non-lyncher. And as far as putting the power role in the line of fire, I think of it like this. Let's say isocialism is the cop. If he gets to 4 votes, he could be all 'hey guys, I'm the cop, don't lynch me'. Of course, it'll be up to us if we believe him or not. Although at that point, he's a dead man as then the mafia will kill him in the hopes of hitting a power role. One thing I'd be curious on (as a whole, not just this game) is the history of people voting for no lynch in games. I know Kevin advocates for it like crazy, but as someone who hasn't been here in forever, I can't attest to anyone else. A separate post, since I feel I got a bit ramblely in the my last post and didn't want this thought to get lost in the mix. If the mafia chose the godfather as their power role, an over reliance on town power roles could screw us over. The cop investigates the godfather, the result will be that the godfather is innocent giving a false positive. If the tracker finds the godfather, it'll also give a false positive (as I'd presume the mafia wouldn't be dumb enough to send the godfather to do the killing when both members are alive). If they both find the godfather, we could get to a lynch or lose situation, the power roles could be all "we found him innocent" and mislynch for a game loss.

While the math in SBG's second post is correct, you guys are thinking incorrectly in wanting to no lynch. Sure, a lynch here gives us a higher chance of being incorrect, but it's a risk we need to take. For all we know, the cop will be night killed tonight? How does that help us tomorrow? Bit discounting that, here's why a no lynch is a bad idea. Provided we mislynch twice, on day 3, we'll have to pick two scum out of five total people. If we no lynch and then mislynch, we have to find two scum out out of six people. A mislynch either way is game over at that point, but one gives us a 7% higher chance to hit mafia. And don't give me the BS of relying on our power roles. They're nice to have, yes. But there's no gaurentee they'll even be alive on day 2. And let's say they are both alive on day 3. Who's to say they guessed correctly? For all we know, the cop found two innocents and they are both dead by day 3. Or the cop found the godfather. We don't know, but we can't have our thumbs up our asses hoping for the best.