Kitkat16

Yeah, but he could have disbelieved me and tried anyway.

Thank you for not killing me

The only thing that disappoints me is that Kevin didn't mention my spectacular defence of myself in his rundown at the end. It was so glorious I got away with that blunder. gg town.

I find Lach dodgy as hell, but I stick by what I said earlier that I would prefer to lynch LS first. Unvote Vote: LS

Changed your tune? I thought I was "almost certainly" scum, and that was BEFORE it was pointed out that one-shot bulletproof is a werewolf role.

in

praise the lord brewers hurry up and unlynch me before lach and LS dogpile me

"I'm won't get into confirming or not confirming roles other than to say that if you look back to what I said it included some room for interpretation and don't exactly say exact." ----- This good enough for you, Brewers? It essentially confirms that there's some flexibility around what Bulletproof Townie means exactly. If it's not good enough for you, I'll pressure Kevin to clarify further. () But surely if it were absolutely clear that Bulletproof Townie protected me from werewolf night kills, Kevin would have said so.

Now on this one, I'm on solid ground. @KevinH Please explain.

What exactly is your role claim? Bulletproof Townie.

there's a simple way to clear this up @KevinH please clarify ...... Oh. I just rechecked my role PM, and it said nothing about being one-shot. I thought I was one-shot and wasn't. I suppose you'll just assume that I'm a werewolf one-shot bulletproof though. I'm really, really not. It was an honest mistake. Oh well. When you find out that I'm telling the truth tonight, please lynch Lach and LS tomorrow and the day after that. (This was a separate post but it has merged into the "please clarify" post...)

Re: #2, why would I do that, when it just makes me look more suspicious? And furthermore, if you do in fact assume that no other role really makes sense of my posts re: SM (which btw it doesn't: there's no role which really makes sense of those posts), doesn't this all add credibility to the fact that my bulletproof roleclaim wasn't a last minute invention that I came up with when the spotlight was turned on me? What do you find more plausible: that I really am a one-shot bulletproof and that my posts re: SM were genuine, or that I planned all along to roleclaim bulletproof? And anyway why the heck would I plan in advance to roleclaim bulletproof when claims like that aren't generally believed? Why wouldn't I try and plan out being some other more believable role? On top of that, doesn't the fact that neither LordSunday nor Lach even bothered to ask the questions you're raising seem suspicious to you? LordSunday even said that I was almost certainly scum. He apparently saw no credibility to my story at all. Doesn't that look like a werewolf pair trying to do off another player to you? In fact, If I do get lynched, I want both LS and Lach to be firmly in the spotlight for this.

Damn, alright. ​Unvote Samus ​Vote Kitkat ​SM has a Vig gunning for her. Lach has 3 votes on him. So I'll give my attention to you, Kitkat. ​How about getting us started on the name claims? I really would like the 4 unknowns + Brewers to name claim. And anyone else who hasn't. Did Jazzy? ​I just want the character names you were given, NOT your roles. No reason to be shy about it or hide it.. unless you're a scum without a safe name. I almost refused to give you the character name, because it's less well known, and won't be believed. But on reflection, saying that it's less well known and won't be believed isn't any more helpful than just giving you it. So I'm Nien Nunb. I had to Google who that even was, and I've seen The Last Jedi more than once. :v As for roleclaiming, you can forget it, I won't do that even if I'm facing the lynch. Which I'm not, currently. I'm sorry but how is this at all helpful to the town? I'm not pressing you for a role claim.. yet.. but you're telling us that even if you are town and about to be lynched you wouldn't tell us what you are or what information you might have? How in the heck is that a town move? Even scum fake a role claim before being lynched. At least then the town knows they were lying afterward. In your case, if you are town and you refused to role claim before your lynch, your death would literally be WORTHLESS to us. That is not a town play. I think that it's more likely that the role you have is strictly a werewolf role with no possible town counterpart. Therefore you obviously can't claim it because it would give you away as a werewolf. At the same time you probably aren't ready to fake claim because you don't want to be challenged on an actually existing role. To address your paragraphs in order: 1) There is also the possibility that you are a werewolf and wouldn't hammer yourself. 2) I don't really care about Canik's insistence on name claiming to be honest. I don't think that it is going to benefit the town in any way because I'm expecting all scums have a safe claim, but it also won't hurt. 3) I am leaning heavily towards there not being a doctor in this game. If there is, he/she would certainly be targeted at night by the werewolves next, but I'm not even sure that a doctor role claiming at this point is the worst thing in the world for the town. It would be one less person on a very short possible scum list that the town needs to look at. In my mind there are only 3 people left who's role we don't know -- Yours, LordSunday's, and Kitkat's. Fine. I'm a one-shot bulletproof townie. I was going to refuse to roleclaim because I know that a one-shot bulletproof role is a common role that scum claim in these situations and I wouldn't be believed. Therefore it wouldn't help me in the slightest to roleclaim and would possibly seal my death warrant because it would look like a scum move. Unfortunately I do happen to be a one-shot bulletproof and so I'm stuck with roleclaiming it. This should also clear up why I said I wouldn't roleclaim even if I was about to be lynched (I don't *HAVE* any useful information for town, so you're losing nothing) and also why I have been quite quiet this game. Most of you have useful PR roles which can help you to know stuff. I have nothing, and have had to go purely on daytime posts. Unfortunately because of the way the game has turned out that (with most of the townies being known townies), that means I'm basically automatically a lynch target. I'm a townie who hasn't roleclaimed and hasn't said much of substance. But for me, that's (mostly) unavoidable. Although I concede I haven't been as invested in this game as I could have been, even as someone without a useful PR. Re: what I was hoping to tell you about SM. Essentially, I was hoping she would roleclaim bulletproof, for two reasons. (1) It's unlikely that there are two townie one-shot bulletproofs, so if I counter-claimed, we would catch her in a (probable) lie. (2) On February 18th, when we'd had no deaths the night before, I assumed that possibly two different parties had attempted to lynch me. I private messaged Kevin and asked him if, in the event multiple parties attempted to kill me, my bulletproof power would block both. He said the following (we have rules against quoting role PMs, but not other PMs like this one:) You are totally bulletproof against the Mafia proper and vigilantes. Werewolves and serial killers can kill you at night. In other words, bulletproof doesn't help you against werewolves. But if SM didn't know that, she might have claimed a bulletproof power, in which case I'd have been doubly suspicious of her. In this small way, even though I have minimal information as a bulletproof, I thought I could help the town. So go ahead and lynch me if you wish. It's not that big a deal to me. I'll still win if the town wins, which we probably will either way I think. I was hoping to avoid this because if we do have a doctor in play it's now obvious to the werewolves who it is, and also they know not to bother targeting me at night because I have a useless power. If I do get lynched though, look at the people who tried to direct the lynch away from Lach and onto me. I'm prepared to bet that one of either Lach or LS is ww. Are you sure you're one shot bulletproof townie? Sorry I am not buying it and think you're lying about your role. In the same vein, I don't appreciate why you are trying to divert attention onto me again. Just couple of posts ago, you were trying to retract from your suspicion against me. Also as far as I remember, before today you never once directed your suspicion against me. But as soon as you smelt that I am going to be the lynch candidate today, you jumped your gun on me and retracted as soon as I called you out on that (granted you didnt unvote me). Now again pointing your FoS on me. So what is it Kitkat? If you believe I am scum why dont you give me your reasons? Dont tell me you're also suspecting me because I didnt role claim which you were guilty of too until now. Right. I finally have access to a laptop. So, as I said, I didn't retract my suspicion of you. I just thought it would be a good idea to lynch LS first. The fact that I didn't roleclaim up til now doesn't mean I can't find your failure to do so suspicious. I think it's perfectly legitimate for the town to suspect me, you and LS. There's almost certainly one werewolf amongst us three, possibly two. I mean, the werewolves have to be somewhere: there are only so many players whose alignment is not known. I won't be mad at the town if they lynch me. I get why. It's kind of annoying, because it means an extra day until they get to you two, but shrug. I hope they see from my previous post that I'm telling the truth. In their shoes, it would ring of truth to me.

Im on my phone and dont seem to be able to quote you Lach, but I never retracted my suspicion, just proposed lynching LS first.

Damn, alright. ​Unvote Samus ​Vote Kitkat ​SM has a Vig gunning for her. Lach has 3 votes on him. So I'll give my attention to you, Kitkat. ​How about getting us started on the name claims? I really would like the 4 unknowns + Brewers to name claim. And anyone else who hasn't. Did Jazzy? ​I just want the character names you were given, NOT your roles. No reason to be shy about it or hide it.. unless you're a scum without a safe name. I almost refused to give you the character name, because it's less well known, and won't be believed. But on reflection, saying that it's less well known and won't be believed isn't any more helpful than just giving you it. So I'm Nien Nunb. I had to Google who that even was, and I've seen The Last Jedi more than once. :v As for roleclaiming, you can forget it, I won't do that even if I'm facing the lynch. Which I'm not, currently. I'm sorry but how is this at all helpful to the town? I'm not pressing you for a role claim.. yet.. but you're telling us that even if you are town and about to be lynched you wouldn't tell us what you are or what information you might have? How in the heck is that a town move? Even scum fake a role claim before being lynched. At least then the town knows they were lying afterward. In your case, if you are town and you refused to role claim before your lynch, your death would literally be WORTHLESS to us. That is not a town play. I think that it's more likely that the role you have is strictly a werewolf role with no possible town counterpart. Therefore you obviously can't claim it because it would give you away as a werewolf. At the same time you probably aren't ready to fake claim because you don't want to be challenged on an actually existing role. To address your paragraphs in order: 1) There is also the possibility that you are a werewolf and wouldn't hammer yourself. 2) I don't really care about Canik's insistence on name claiming to be honest. I don't think that it is going to benefit the town in any way because I'm expecting all scums have a safe claim, but it also won't hurt. 3) I am leaning heavily towards there not being a doctor in this game. If there is, he/she would certainly be targeted at night by the werewolves next, but I'm not even sure that a doctor role claiming at this point is the worst thing in the world for the town. It would be one less person on a very short possible scum list that the town needs to look at. In my mind there are only 3 people left who's role we don't know -- Yours, LordSunday's, and Kitkat's. Fine. I'm a one-shot bulletproof townie. I was going to refuse to roleclaim because I know that a one-shot bulletproof role is a common role that scum claim in these situations and I wouldn't be believed. Therefore it wouldn't help me in the slightest to roleclaim and would possibly seal my death warrant because it would look like a scum move. Unfortunately I do happen to be a one-shot bulletproof and so I'm stuck with roleclaiming it. This should also clear up why I said I wouldn't roleclaim even if I was about to be lynched (I don't *HAVE* any useful information for town, so you're losing nothing) and also why I have been quite quiet this game. Most of you have useful PR roles which can help you to know stuff. I have nothing, and have had to go purely on daytime posts. Unfortunately because of the way the game has turned out that (with most of the townies being known townies), that means I'm basically automatically a lynch target. I'm a townie who hasn't roleclaimed and hasn't said much of substance. But for me, that's (mostly) unavoidable. Although I concede I haven't been as invested in this game as I could have been, even as someone without a useful PR. Re: what I was hoping to tell you about SM. Essentially, I was hoping she would roleclaim bulletproof, for two reasons. (1) It's unlikely that there are two townie one-shot bulletproofs, so if I counter-claimed, we would catch her in a (probable) lie. (2) On February 18th, when we'd had no deaths the night before, I assumed that possibly two different parties had attempted to lynch me. I private messaged Kevin and asked him if, in the event multiple parties attempted to kill me, my bulletproof power would block both. He said the following (we have rules against quoting role PMs, but not other PMs like this one:) You are totally bulletproof against the Mafia proper and vigilantes. Werewolves and serial killers can kill you at night. In other words, bulletproof doesn't help you against werewolves. But if SM didn't know that, she might have claimed a bulletproof power, in which case I'd have been doubly suspicious of her. In this small way, even though I have minimal information as a bulletproof, I thought I could help the town. So go ahead and lynch me if you wish. It's not that big a deal to me. I'll still win if the town wins, which we probably will either way I think. I was hoping to avoid this because if we do have a doctor in play it's now obvious to the werewolves who it is, and also they know not to bother targeting me at night because I have a useless power. If I do get lynched though, look at the people who tried to direct the lynch away from Lach and onto me. I'm prepared to bet that one of either Lach or LS is ww.

Damn, alright. ​Unvote Samus ​Vote Kitkat ​SM has a Vig gunning for her. Lach has 3 votes on him. So I'll give my attention to you, Kitkat. ​How about getting us started on the name claims? I really would like the 4 unknowns + Brewers to name claim. And anyone else who hasn't. Did Jazzy? ​I just want the character names you were given, NOT your roles. No reason to be shy about it or hide it.. unless you're a scum without a safe name. I almost refused to give you the character name, because it's less well known, and won't be believed. But on reflection, saying that it's less well known and won't be believed isn't any more helpful than just giving you it. So I'm Nien Nunb. I had to Google who that even was, and I've seen The Last Jedi more than once. :v As for roleclaiming, you can forget it, I won't do that even if I'm facing the lynch. Which I'm not, currently.

I know this is going to look terrible, but the man has a point. I was agreeing with Lach until fairly recently. (The honest truth is that I forgot about that. I haven't been rereading the thread.) We could lynch LS instead/ first?

Apart from thinking I'm scum, TW's reasoning is solid. Vote: Lachiton

I had a look at the role list on the Greater Mafia website to see if I could nail down SM's role, but there are 146 different roles on there so lel.

Oh. I thought you might be certain I was town but didn't want to say it.

OK. In the light of SM's response, I don't have anything much to add. I was hoping to catch her in a fake roleclaim (or at the very least, an improbable roleclaim.) What I will say is that I think it's unlikely the doctor saved her. I'd have saved one of the known townies, were I a doctor. That's very interesting. - You said you're one-shot something and you've used it up on your first night, now basically being vanilla town. - You also said naming your role that's no longer relevant would endanger someone, you're pretty convinced to be town. How? - Third thing, the most interesting is that unknown gentleman you're so convinced of being town. Who is he? You've presented your list here...and I'm unsure how your revelation would endanger anyone of them. Incidentally, I am conspicuously absent from SM's list.

​You would think that but.. there was a scum (Rafay, I think) who was pressed and claimed Yoda which was then counter-claimed by AbT. Plus some others seem reluctant to name claim. So maybe they don't have safe names to claim. I say we try it and if we get some info great, if we get no info, all we would have lost is a little time. Here's another reason why I don't think anything will be learned from simple name claiming: We know that "mass role-claiming" is not allowed because it could break the game. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Kevin did say earlier in the game that he would allow "mass name-claiming". Why would mass name-claiming be allowed but mass role-claiming wouldn't be? Probably because mass name-claiming would NOT break the game. In other words, everyone probably has a good name to claim and nothing would be learned from it that would break the game. What we really need at this point is the following: 1) Clarity on whether or not ABT reloaded Samus. Samus claims that he targeted SM. This means that Samus is claiming to have been reloaded. Was he really reloaded? If ABT confirms that he did NOT reload Samus it means that Samus lied about targeting SM. 2) What does Kitkat know about Samus supposedly targeting SM? 3) If Samus is a 1-shot Vig and was reloaded, what stopped his shot? Did Yehom jail SM? Was Samus role blocked by someone else? 4) Does anyone else have any other useful information from last night? Re #2, as I said, I'll answer that question once we hear from SM.

There's an insight I could make here, but I want to hear from SM first. Do you have an explanation for what Samus said, SM?

Well there's a shock. So. Anyone got any new information overnight?

I don't have much to say. What I will say is that if I'm VT, it wouldn't be wise for me to say that because scum will know not to kill me and to target someone else. If I'm a powerful PR, I don't want to out myself and have scum know to target me. If I'm a weak PR, I don't want scum to know to target someone else. All in all, it's not worth roleclaiming until I have to. Because of that, it limits what I can say. The rest of you have known PR roles which means that you have a lot more freedom to say whatever you like. I can assure you that if any brainwaves strike, you'll be the first to know.