KevinH

Then, ideally, we would want to lynch a drug lord day 2 and then mafia/drug lord day 3. The 2 drug lords couldn't force the lynch of a townie as easily. Now that that's thought out, who are the mafia and drug lords?

This is sort of like having two cops with complete investigations from the beginning. The cops (drug lords) need to hint and guide the discussion without being obvious. The downside is that we will need to immediately lynch a drug lord. Possible scenario if drug lords give good hints: Day 1: Mafia #1 lynched by town Night 1: Townie #1 night-killed by mafia Day 2: Mafia #2 lynched by town Night 2: Townie #2 night-killed by drug lord Day 3: Drug lord #1 lynched by town Night 3: Townie #3 night-killed by drug lord Day 4: Townie #4 and Drug lord #2 roam the streets of Karma We need to hope that the mafia night-kills a drug lord. That presents a much better scenario.

If they won't vote for the mafia, then the rest of the town will have to do the lynching and then the ones that didn't vote to lynch would be targeted as drug lords. It's certainly a Wine In Front Of Me situation. But if I were a drug lord, I would really, really, really want the mafia eliminated first.

Usually, we are not allowed to edit a post in the thread. No biggie, but thought I might mention it for future reference. Suppose I place a random vote. The drug lords will know if it's against the mafia. If I get lucky and randomly pick a mafia, the drug lords will pile on and we'll lynch the mafia. That's a good thing. Alternatively, a drug lord can vote for a mafia and hope the townies pile on. That's a good thing, too. The remaining mafia will then probably night kill one of the lynchers in hopes of getting a drug lord. If they get a drug lord, that's a good thing, too. With a little luck we can have 2 less scum tomorrow.

The streets must be cleaned of all scum! This is an interesting setup. Since the drug dealers know the mafia, they would want to be emphatic about killing them. But if they are emphatic about killing them, then the rest of the players will know they are drug dealers. The town has no cop so the no-lynch debate is moot. We must guess correctly and lynch to win.

I'll even play 2 games at the same time. More mafia, please!

It seemed balanced enough to me, especially the way it played out. I think an early lucky scum kill would clinch it for the town, though.

This was frustrating, but fun. How could I have been more persuasive? "I told you so!" Since we're at war, I'm wasting more time online. I definitely want to play again.

The logic with them was that they deviated from the plan and that appeared scummy. So they were only the most probable, not a sure thing. If CanucksDynasty is not scum and I am scum, then my scum buddy with a bullet and I could have won earlier. If CanucksDynasty is not scum and I am not scum, then there are 2 scum with bullets now and they can win easily. If CanucksDynasty is scum and I am scum, then there are 3 townie bullets remaining. Why not shoot CanucksDynasty? It will prove my point.

Only one of you are scum. Two of you are town: Tell me where my logic fails. What if somebody shoots me? You'll see that I'm townie. I'm 100% certain that CanucksDynasty is scum. Whoever shoots me might or might not be scum. We've had a few instances of well-intentioned townies deviating from the plan ... Case 1a: I'm shot by a townie. The scum bullet will shoot the townie bullet and the scum will win. Granted, the townie bullet could be quick and shoot the scum, but the townie bullet won't know that I'm a townie until mole posts it and by then it will be too late. Town loses. Case 1b: I'm shot by scum. There will be 2 townie bullets remaining. One should shoot CanucksDynasty and the other should shoot whoever shot me. Town wins.

The scum are in the same situation again. If there are 2 scum bullets remaining, they could kill two townies including the third bullet and win. I can't believe there would only be 1 scum. One lucky shot would end the game. The plan: Somebody shoot CanucksDynasty. Somebody else shoot the remaining bullet. Town wins.

Let me explain again. When there were 6 players total and 4 bullets left, if the scum had 2 bullets they could have shot the other 2 bullets and won with the end game of 2-2. But they didn't. Therefore one of the 2 players without bullets at the time must have been scum: either Sir Jesus or CanucksDynasty. The fact that Sir Jesus was townie doesn't change any of the previous facts. The scum wasn't Sir Jesus so it must be CanucksDynasty. Follow my logic. Even if you suspect me as scum, I'm telling the town how to win. I could be a scum without a bullet meaning all three bullets are townie. One bullet kills CanucksDynasty, another bullet kills the third bullet. There would be 2 townies remaining and the town would win. Follow my plan. The town will win. If I were scum, would I be telling the town how to win? Shoot CanucksDynasty.

Super-Duper-Extra-Strong-Finger of Suspicion: CanucksDynasty Given the assumption of 2 scum, and given that the 2 scum didn't take the opportunity to win when they could have, CanucksDynasty must be scum. It doesn't really matter who shoots him. There are 2 townie bullets and 1 scum bullet remaining. If one of the bullets shoots CanucksDynasty and another bullet shoots the the last bullet, the town will win. If one of the 3 remaining bullets shoots another bullet, it's possible that we will lose.

I've made my case. Shoot: Sir Jesus

The town only needs to outnumber the scum. We have a couple of assumptions that I believe to be true: There are 2 scum Either Sir Jesus or CanucksDynasty are scum We can easily reduce the number of scum to 1. We will win if we can run out of bullets with 2 townies left. If there are 2 townies and 1 scum alive, then yes. If you need ANY clarification on that rule at all, let me know.

Seems clear to me. If neither of you are scum, then the scum have two bullets left. If the scum have two bullets left, they can shoot the two townie bullets and win.

Inconspicuously missing is Narsis (Bullet). Scum tell? Maybe, maybe not. I agree that if the scum had two bullets, they would win right now so either Sir Jesus or CanucksDynasty (or both) must be scum. We therefore have three townie bullets and one scum bullet (or maybe zero scum bullets, but that doesn't matter) We probably won't be able to convince the scum to shoot their last bullet so I'm happy to take the shot. I think we have this won anyway. If you can believe I am townie, follow these instructions and we win. Case 1: I shoot Sir Jesus and he is not scum. Then we know that CanucksDynasty must be scum. A townie should shoot him (no vote required, the town will win). That will leave one townie bullet and one scum bullet plus two townies without bullets. The townie with the bullet should shoot the other player with the bullet. Even if the scum is quick and shoots the townie with the remaining bullet, the town will win with a 2-1 advantage. What will lose for the town is if the remaining townie with a bullet is convinced to shoot someone without a bullet who is a townie. Then the scum with a bullet can shoot any remaining townie and win because of the 1-1 tie at the end. Case 2: I shoot Sir Jesus and he is scum. We don't know at this point if CanucksDynasty is scum or not but it doesn't matter. The townies will outnumber the scum 5-1. If we continue shooting players without bullets, there's a chance the remaining scum could survive down to a 1-1 end and thus win. Instead, the next shot should be at a player with a bullet. If we get lucky, scum will be hit and we'll win. If we hit a townie with a bullet, we're still OK. We'll have a 4-1 advantage: 3 players without bullets and 2 players with bullets. A remaining townie with a bullet should shoot the other player with a bullet. That will use up all the bullets and even if another townie gets killed, we will win 3-1. My analysis shows that the town has this game won. Can anyone dispute this?

You won't regret shooting me if you are scum.

My vote is for Vgmmaster to shoot Sir Jesus. I choose Vgmmaster only because of the suggestion of abandoning the plan. I realize that's not a very strong scum tell because 2 players have abandoned the plan and one has proven to be townie. My second choice for shooter is Curufinwe. This choice is for the revote suggestion which looked like an attempt to save Falzis. Falzis was proven townie so maybe it was an attempt to save Sir Jesus. If Sir Jesus ends up townie ... I don't even want to think of that!

If Falzis were scum, I really would have thought Curufinwe to be scum because of the attempted revote. It still might be Curufinwe trying to save Sir Jesus if they are both scum. Sir Jesus is still my preferred target.

I'll miss the no lynch debate but sign me up!

I would have bet Falzis was scum. Strange play. I think CanucksDynasty was doing the will of the town so my desire remains that Vgmmaster shoots Sir Jesus.

It does sound silly, but I'll humor you. I keep my vote on Vgmmaster.

I agree we should listen to them and consider everything they say. If one of them ends up townie, then we will know they weren't intentionally misleading us. My point was that I didn't want to follow a 4/7 majority if 2 of the 4 votes were from the most likely scum.

I agree that we might want to discuss something that might come up. At this point, though, Sir Jesus has to be considered more scummy than either Vgmmaster or CanucksDynasty. The reason not to listen to Falzis and Sir Jesus is that most likely one of them is scum. Of course, they are in a Wine In Front Of Me situation so they may or may not give us the best or worst choice for a shooter. So here's a summary of the proposed plan CanucksDynasty shoots Falzis. We discuss if appropriate. Vgmmaster shoots Sir Jesus. We discuss what to do with the remaining 3 bullets.