761 replies to this topic

[CanucksDynasty]

@d3mon - you pretty much stated that you are a townie power role. Since we are no longer in a pool...that would rule out any of the lifeguard roles. So that leaves the security guard, friendly neighbour, insomniac, and curious child (that I can remember without checking the last game). So which one is it?

VOTE COUNT
KevinH (3): Narsis, CanucksDynasty, Herodez
ccabal86 (2): Nerau, Electric Mango
TerrorChrist (2): CaoCao, d3mon
d3mon (1): ccabal86
Electric Mango (1): TerrorChrist

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (2): Preston, KevinH

With 11 Alive, 6 is needed to lynch.

Edited by molestargazer, 09 April 2011 - 10:54 AM.

[TerrorChrist]

I had the name EM in my mind, I didn't need to scroll for that

[d3mon]

@d3mon - you pretty much stated that you are a townie power role. Since we are no longer in a pool...that would rule out any of the lifeguard roles. So that leaves the security guard, friendly neighbour, insomniac, and curious child (that I can remember without checking the last game). So which one is it?

Hm.. I am not sure how an answer to that question will help the town. Please enlighten me

[ccabal86]

Well, I guess there are two alternatives here:

1, d3mon is mafia and he wants to save himself from an impending lynch by claiming a power role.

2, d3mon really is town and he likely has some sort of power role (either security guard, friendly neighbor, insomniac, and curious child). In this case I believe he'll be the main target of the mafia during the night. While Insomniac and Curious Child was near-useless, the security guard role was pretty buff and I don't think the mafia are going to risk letting someone like that live.

[CanucksDynasty]

Hm.. I am not sure how an answer to that question will help the town. Please enlighten me

Well you sure didn't do the town any favors by telling everyone you had a character from the previous game. While I don't like to lynch newbies...I strongly suspect you are mafia.

Unvote
Vote: d3mon

[d3mon]

Interesting.. I dont think that I claimed a power role but I guess you can think that

[CanucksDynasty]

Interesting.. I dont think that I claimed a power role but I guess you can think that

Last game, all the townies had a power role. So if you had a character from the previous game...then wouldn't you also have a power role in this game too?

[Preston]

Well you sure didn't do the town any favors by telling everyone you had a character from the previous game. While I don't like to lynch newbies...I strongly suspect you are mafia.

Unvote
Vote: d3mon

@d3mon - you pretty much stated that you are a townie power role. Since we are no longer in a pool...that would rule out any of the lifeguard roles. So that leaves the security guard, friendly neighbour, insomniac, and curious child (that I can remember without checking the last game). So which one is it?

This is definitely an interesting development; a day 1 roleclaim REALLY doesnt help the town - but you've already started it d3mon, so now we need to figure out how to proceed.
Options for d3mon's status are as follows:

1) d3mon is scum trying to avoid being our first lynch by roleclaiming
2) d3mon is town with a power role, playing poorly and making everyone suspicious
3) d3mon is town with no power role, mistaking his townie PM for having a role or not intending to roleclaim when he referenced his role PM.

Since he has brought up the concept of roles from the last game, option 3 is somewhat unlikely; that is VERY specific information, and likely to be town if true.

Now with that said - with herodez potentially being replaced, I am having trouble finding a different target for our day 1 test. So far you've behaved much like scum would, and your awkward/hinted-without-detail roleclaim is now a double-or-nothing mark against you. We don't know how many 'useful' town roles there are in this game - hence we run the risk of eliminating someone valuable if we mis-lynch here, particularly given the past game's survivors. We are therefore forced to at least CONSIDER that you might be telling the truth. Here comes the devil's advocate hat again... *dusts it off from last game*

The problem is that even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and decide NOT to lynch you now d3mon, you have painted a giant target on your own back for scum to take you out and remove a town role. If we lynch someone else, scum may well choose to target you tonight on the good chance that you are a town role. If town has a doctor role (maybe pharmacist or something?) they could protect you tonight and you MIGHT stand a chance - but then, mafia would know you were being protected and not target you, plus be free to target anyone ELSE... so unless you have some awesome role, that'd be a waste of the doctor's role to try and protect you (assuming we have one in the first place.)

As it currently stands, it looks like you are one step away from the chopping block (what's the current votecount?). Right now your usefulness to the town is either a day 1 lynch or a potential night 1 sacrifice/lightning rod to tempt scum's nightkill - possibly away from more valuable roles. If you are lynched now, scum will have no special information for a night 1 target - OR we'll have reduced scum's membership by one.

Normally a roleclaim THIS early would not help the town at all - but since you've already started to do so and are trying to avert your own lynch, you have the option to finish your roleclaim and name/describe your role in an attempt to convince us that you are worth not lynching on the chance you're telling the truth. If you do so (and you're actually town), make sure to paraphrase/summarize your role instead of copy/pasting it; straight copy/pastes from mole's PMs will get you modkilled and there's no sense dying to a technicality. There is also no guarantee that roleclaiming will change peoples' minds - you are correct in that anything you say right now will be suspect, since you have done a good job so far of acting suspicious. Frankly, since the other mafia could craft for you a very nice-sounding fake role if you actually are scum, I'm not sure WHAT you could say that would change everyone's opinion right now.

That said, roleclaiming may still not be the best thing for you to do - this is a REALLY wierd situation where we need more information and are being forced to make more complex decisions than I believe usually happen on day 1. At this point a decent role is probably the only thing that could make people reconsider, but if you actually are town that will be horrible for us because you'd be exposed and scum might target you per above. And if you are scum, then you KNOW you would need a decent role to get people to possibly reconsider - it's kindof a catch-22.

@Kevin/CD/EM/Narsis, can I get your thoughts on this - does the potential value of d3mon doing a full roleclaim to help with this decision (since he's already said something) outweigh the damage to the town if we decide not to lynch him and he's actually town?

Absent more information or analysis I am going to vote for d3mon, but I want to hear responses and Narsis's list (feel better!) before I cast my vote.

-Preston

[KevinH]

We don't really need to do anything.

Tuck away the fact that somebody claimed to have a role. We don't need to force a full-blown claim because if they are truly the doc or cop, that makes them a target.

It could always be a mafia trying to look like a town -- classic Wine In Front Of Me.

I'll make a claim, too: I have a weak one-use townie role. Will the scum waste a night-kill on me now? Do they believe me?

How I really feel -- Vote: No-Lynch

[CanucksDynasty]

I feel d3mon should do a full roleclaim to remove any doubt. He's been so suspicious that I believe he attempted to appear townie to save his mafia skin.

[Electric Mango]

D3mon should do a full role claim. If he is town, he needs to do anything in his power to not be lynched in order for us to lynch someone else who has a chance at being scum. Also, if he is lynched without being able to tell us some usefull information about his role that information goes to the grave with him.

If he has a power role and role claims then our assumed doc/pharmacist can put their abilities to good use.

If he is scum and roleclaims it's possible for another townie to counter claim that same role and we can eliminate him confidently.

[Emmanuel]

D3mon should do a full role claim. If he is town, he needs to do anything in his power to not be lynched in order for us to lynch someone else who has a chance at being scum. Also, if he is lynched without being able to tell us some usefull information about his role that information goes to the grave with him.

If he has a power role and role claims then our assumed doc/pharmacist can put their abilities to good use.

If he is scum and roleclaims it's possible for another townie to counter claim that same role and we can eliminate him confidently.

And what if d3mon is a townie and mafia counter claim the same role? We won't be able to tell the difference at this point

[Preston]

We don't really need to do anything.

Tuck away the fact that somebody claimed to have a role. We don't need to force a full-blown claim because if they are truly the doc or cop, that makes them a target.

It could always be a mafia trying to look like a town -- classic Wine In Front Of Me.

I'll make a claim, too: I have a weak one-use townie role. Will the scum waste a night-kill on me now? Do they believe me?

A vote for no-roleclaim.
I can see the point you're making about how we have no means to verify your claim either, but the difference to me is in the context of d3mon's claim; his was made while trying to claim innocence with his name very likely to be the day's lynch.

I feel d3mon should do a full roleclaim to remove any doubt. He's been so suspicious that I believe he attempted to appear townie to save his mafia skin.

A vote for roleclaim.

D3mon should do a full role claim. If he is town, he needs to do anything in his power to not be lynched in order for us to lynch someone else who has a chance at being scum. Also, if he is lynched without being able to tell us some usefull information about his role that information goes to the grave with him.

If he has a power role and role claims then our assumed doc/pharmacist can put their abilities to good use.

If he is scum and roleclaims it's possible for another townie to counter claim that same role and we can eliminate him confidently.

A vote for roleclaim.
Nice point about role detail information might die with him if he's lynched without claiming. However, we cannot assume that we have a 'protection' style doctor - remember that last game the only 'doc' the town had was a one-day revive, and it didn't restore role powers - just let them vote and talk. Therefore even if d3mon claims a role and someone else actually has it - especially if it's a strong one - I would NOT recommend their claiming it to finish d3mon, ESPECIALLY not on day 1! They can, however, vote for d3mon and be confident about doing so.

And what if d3mon is a townie and mafia counter claim the same role? We won't be able to tell the difference at this point

While true that a mafia counterclaim could be used to finish off d3mon today if he actually has a town role, when lynched we would all see that d3mon really was the role he claimed to be - and we would have an all-but-certain scum target to lynch on day 2. Fake-roleclaiming is risky; it ultimately catches up with you. Good question to ask though!

So thus far we have two votes for roleclaim and one for no-roleclaim. Narsis, what say you?

-Preston

[d3mon]

It's interesting how everything has turned out.

Well.. looking back at things, I see the following possible options for me

1) I do nothing and the town lynches me (a townie) - I am not sure how that would have helped the town.

2) I do what I did i.e. indicate that I am one of the 8 town characters from the last round. I guess that makes me a prime target for mafia because I am... wait what... one of the 8 ninja townies .
I thought mafia knew who the townies are ..

3) I make a full role claim - TBH I am not sure why a townie will even ask for that. Still, I would wait to see the opinion of other senior players.

[ccabal86]

I think d3mon should roleclaim. In a bad situation like this, the best you can do is reveal the whole truth. That's what essentially saved my neck in the last game, when I got into that awkward situation.

[TerrorChrist]

The discussion above is quite interesting, but it does raise a newbie question....

Are roles in maffia games "standard"? Or can the moderator just make up roles on the fly?

Also: how long can a day last maximum? If we do not reach some vote, can we keep on discussing for years, or is there a deadline?

Other than that, I have not seen any reason to change my view that D3mon is a suspect (as is EM)

I'd love to see a new vote-count.

1. I can just make them up.
2. 2 weeks. The deadline is in the subtitle for this topic, and this is in... one of the rules somewhere.
3. Vote counts are at the top of each page.
-M

Edited by molestargazer, 09 April 2011 - 08:25 PM.

[ccabal86]

There are some "basic" roles, like doctor, cop, vigilante, etc, but these can be heavily modded. The mod can also make up unique roles, such as the "Curious Child" in the last game. And there is a deadline to the game, Apr. 15. It's stated on the first page

[Emmanuel]

While true that a mafia counterclaim could be used to finish off d3mon today if he actually has a town role, when lynched we would all see that d3mon really was the role he claimed to be - and we would have an all-but-certain scum target to lynch on day 2. Fake-roleclaiming is risky; it ultimately catches up with you. Good question to ask though!

So thus far we have two votes for roleclaim and one for no-roleclaim. Narsis, what say you?

-Preston

Might as well chalk up another vote for roleclaim then.

[TerrorChrist]

So... (and no, I am not roleclaiming a curious kid by being curious)... what was the deal with the curious kid? What could it do?

[Emmanuel]

So... (and no, I am not roleclaiming a curious kid by being curious)... what was the deal with the curious kid? What could it do?

It had a chance of discovering something during the night phase. The chance % was not released though I think