Rules can be found here: http://www.iron-command.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4694

 

Do NOT post or refer to the role-PM within game.

 

Alive:

Electric Mango

KevinH

Narsis

Curufinwe

molestargazer

Falzis

CanucksDynasty

captain8track

 

Dead:

Mayor (Sir Jesus)

 

 

"The mayor and the police are dead! What are we to do now!"

"We'll give justice to those who are guilty of the act!"

"Call the citizens, we shall decide who dies, democratically!"

 

All of the citizens of the shady streets of Karma were called to the public forum. Before the police station had even been cleaned up, the people demanded that action be taken! The streets must be cleaned of all scum!

 

Begin discussion

Ok, not sure about this, If KevinH is a mod, then surely he cannot play as he knows all the roles?

 

Edit: Answered my own problem...

 

This post has been edited by Curufinwe: Today, 12:24 PM

 

Usually, we are not allowed to edit a post in the thread. No biggie, but thought I might mention it for future reference.

 

Suppose I place a random vote.

The drug lords will know if it's against the mafia.

If I get lucky and randomly pick a mafia, the drug lords will pile on and we'll lynch the mafia. That's a good thing.

 

Alternatively, a drug lord can vote for a mafia and hope the townies pile on. That's a good thing, too.

 

The remaining mafia will then probably night kill one of the lynchers in hopes of getting a drug lord. If they get a drug lord, that's a good thing, too.

 

With a little luck we can have 2 less scum tomorrow.

Disagreed with KevinH.

The drug dealers wouldn't simply pile on. That would make them easy pickings for the town once the mafia have been eliminated, surely?

his tendency to not follow the majority...

 

I think it was Martino that said it best...why are you answering a question not directed at you?

(I did something similar in a previous game and learned my lesson).

 

If EM was scum...and he didn't have a reasonable answer...then I would have place suspicion on him.

As it is now...you've given him an out.

Disagreed with KevinH.

The drug dealers wouldn't simply pile on. That would make them easy pickings for the town once the mafia have been eliminated, surely?

 

Drug dealers have the most info in the game. Thus I can see them trying to influence the game to their liking. It would make sense for the drug dealers to target a mafia member to get rid of them first in order to gain the NK ability.

Disagreed with KevinH.

The drug dealers wouldn't simply pile on. That would make them easy pickings for the town once the mafia have been eliminated, surely?

If they won't vote for the mafia, then the rest of the town will have to do the lynching and then the ones that didn't vote to lynch would be targeted as drug lords.

 

It's certainly a Wine In Front Of Me situation. But if I were a drug lord, I would really, really, really want the mafia eliminated first.

Vote : captain8track

 

Heck he is someone to vote for, never actually seen him, and hasn't spoken yet. This could and will change (most likely)

 

 

What the?! But I haven't even posted here! I've given you literally NOTHING to base that decision on. Why would you do that?

 

Unless... unless you're looking for a scapegoat. Unless you're seeking to sow discord and chaos amongst the ranks, dividing the populous so you can conquer them with ease. Yes... that's exactly what you'd want to do.

 

Vote: Curufinwe

What the?! But I haven't even posted here! I've given you literally NOTHING to base that decision on. Why would you do that?

 

Unless... unless you're looking for a scapegoat. Unless you're seeking to sow discord and chaos amongst the ranks, dividing the populous so you can conquer them with ease. Yes... that's exactly what you'd want to do.

 

Vote: Curufinwe

 

 

 

1st of all I'm on an iPod so typing limited. 2nd wth? Ever heard of random voting? I'm pretty sure you have.

 

Also cd I agree with what narsis said. I can elaborate more tomorrow if u want me 2.

 

From what I can see so far keV looks good

captain8track, have you played mafia online before?

To answer Mole's question, my vote on Falzis was a random vote but based off of something I seen from him in his last game(s).

 

I, as well as many others, like to start out the game by voting for someone to get things rolling. Usually it's just a random vote or I vote for someone in a way that adds a little humor to the game. I was going to vote for someone anyway and Falzis seemed like the best pick.

 

My vote during day 1 will most likely change as the day progresses but my vote on Falzis is as good as any at this point.

 

Don't get your feelings hurt Falzis, I respect you for thinking and doing things your own way last game. I've always considered myself as a free thinker and don't always tote the party line either. You did have good discussions last game and I look forward to playing with you this game as well.

 

Besides, we all know Mole is the real scum.

 

Ok lol I got carried away there. I thought you were being serious and I didn't want to die like Aquinas last game so I went on defensive mode knowing a lot of players here blame me partly for screwing up previous games (*cough* Narsis *cough* ).

 

I think the drug dealers have something to ride on with the random voting stage. They can vote "randomly" but in reality are voting for Mafia and hopefully create a trend of votes. So as of now any "random" vote could actually be not random at all. Hopefully this will give us hints as to who are druggies and scummies.

This is sort of like having two cops with complete investigations from the beginning.

 

The cops (drug lords) need to hint and guide the discussion without being obvious. The downside is that we will need to immediately lynch a drug lord.

 

Possible scenario if drug lords give good hints:

Day 1: Mafia #1 lynched by town

Night 1: Townie #1 night-killed by mafia

Day 2: Mafia #2 lynched by town

Night 2: Townie #2 night-killed by drug lord

Day 3: Drug lord #1 lynched by town

Night 3: Townie #3 night-killed by drug lord

Day 4: Townie #4 and Drug lord #2 roam the streets of Karma

We need to hope that the mafia night-kills a drug lord. That presents a much better scenario.

This is sort of like having two cops with complete investigations from the beginning.

 

The cops (drug lords) need to hint and guide the discussion without being obvious. The downside is that we will need to immediately lynch a drug lord.

 

Possible scenario if drug lords give good hints:

Day 1: Mafia #1 lynched by town

Night 1: Townie #1 night-killed by mafia

Day 2: Mafia #2 lynched by town

Night 2: Townie #2 night-killed by drug lord

Day 3: Drug lord #1 lynched by town

Night 3: Townie #3 night-killed by drug lord

Day 4: Townie #4 and Drug lord #2 roam the streets of Karma

We need to hope that the mafia night-kills a drug lord. That presents a much better scenario.

 

 

It's a possibility.

However, all the drug dealers have to do is wait for an incorrect townie vote and join the bandwagon resulting in...

 

Day 3: Townie#3 lynched.

Endgame.

 

So in reality Day 3 is lynch or lose.

the thing is that scenario works against the drug lords. meaning they probably won't follow it...at least not now. of course you get into the whole WIFOM thing...but still.

Then, ideally, we would want to lynch a drug lord day 2 and then mafia/drug lord day 3.

 

The 2 drug lords couldn't force the lynch of a townie as easily.

 

Now that that's thought out, who are the mafia and drug lords?

The 2 drug lords couldn't force the lynch of a townie as easily.

 

What makes you say that Kevin?

 

Drug dealers know who the mafia are.

 

As you (or someone else) has already said, they can drop strong hints on who we should lynch.

 

The drug dealers could just as easily give a townie name instead of a mafia name.

 

 

 

Maybe I read your quote wrong or took it out of context. I'm not accusing you of anything but wanted to get clarification.

Captain it was just a random vote im sorry, you are the person I know least about and for now, until you post more that is the way it stands.

If they won't vote for the mafia, then the rest of the town will have to do the lynching and then the ones that didn't vote to lynch would be targeted as drug lords.

 

It's certainly a Wine In Front Of Me situation. But if I were a drug lord, I would really, really, really want the mafia eliminated first.

Massive WIFOM, that doesn't get us anywhere.

Let's move on.

 

I think the drug dealers have something to ride on with the random voting stage. They can vote "randomly" but in reality are voting for Mafia and hopefully create a trend of votes. So as of now any "random" vote could actually be not random at all. Hopefully this will give us hints as to who are druggies and scummies.

Possible breadcrumb? Either way, we're getting more WIFOM. And I'm not liking that.

 

Right, RVS is over.

So.

Unvote

Vote: Falzis

Massive WIFOM, that doesn't get us anywhere.

Let's move on.

 

 

Possible breadcrumb? Either way, we're getting more WIFOM. And I'm not liking that.

 

Right, RVS is over.

So.

Unvote

Vote: Falzis

 

 

I'm not sure what to think about this post to be honest. My initial instinct told me that you're a drug dealer and Falzis is mafia since you just put vote #2 on him. Are you trying to to tell us something because I don't see what he said as being scummy and you said yourself that RVS (Random Voting Stage) is over. Maybe you're the breadcrumb. Also if you don't like WIFOM (<-click for description new guys) then this game isn't for you. This whole game is cloak and dagger.

I understand the game's cloak and dagger. But trying to guess what the dealers will DO isn't going to get us anywhere but lead to wild speculation which will distract us from finding the dealers / scum.

What we CAN do is analyse what happens after some discussion, lynches, and nights.

So that's what WIFOM is! Lol. Shmancy word for reverse psychology. And my brain just exploded on the section on WIFOM Game Theory. What's breadcrumbs by the way (clues?)?

 

---

 

Did you vote for me because I created a WIFOM? But what about Kevin?

 

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer. But I know I'm not scum, so it's either:

 

1) You are a drug dealer putting a lynch trend towards a townie so you will have better chances of winning late game (instead of trying to get mafia killed early on, which in late game you will be killed for by the townies).

 

2) You are mafia pretending to be a drug dealer by posturing as you are certain of your vote so that either a drug dealer or townie gets lynched, thus more chances of winning for you (lynch + NK). You're taking high risks maybe thinking you won't get killed early to ruin your faction's chances since townie will go for the "mafia" kill first before a drug dealer kill.

 

You can't be a townie since townies won't put a trend vote early on and with such certainty given the lack of information and basis for suspicions. Mere WIFOM cannot be grounds since everyone will be making WIFOM statements to prod discussion and maybe preempt scum actions by reverse psychology. And a townie pretending to be a drug dealer to push mafia into a corner or bait them is too risky since you can be perceived as a genuine drug dealer and will get lynched later on.

 

So concluding that you can't be a townie (except for a very very small chance), my safest bet would be to vote for you.

 

Vote: molestargazer

So that's what WIFOM is! Lol. Shmancy word for reverse psychology. And my brain just exploded on the section on WIFOM Game Theory. What's breadcrumbs by the way (clues?)?

 

---

 

Did you vote for me because I created a WIFOM? But what about Kevin?

 

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer. But I know I'm not scum, so it's either:

 

1) You are a drug dealer putting a lynch trend towards a townie so you will have better chances of winning late game (instead of trying to get mafia killed early on, which in late game you will be killed for by the townies).

 

2) You are mafia pretending to be a drug dealer by posturing as you are certain of your vote so that either a drug dealer or townie gets lynched, thus more chances of winning for you (lynch + NK). You're taking high risks maybe thinking you won't get killed early to ruin your faction's chances since townie will go for the "mafia" kill first before a drug dealer kill.

 

You can't be a townie since townies won't put a trend vote early on and with such certainty given the lack of information and basis for suspicions. Mere WIFOM cannot be grounds since everyone will be making WIFOM statements to prod discussion and maybe preempt scum actions by reverse psychology. And a townie pretending to be a drug dealer to push mafia into a corner or bait them is too risky since you can be perceived as a genuine drug dealer and will get lynched later on.

 

So concluding that you can't be a townie (except for a very very small chance), my safest bet would be to vote for you.

 

Vote: molestargazer

 

My first instinct: Wow, OMGUS.

But let's look at this in more detail.

 

Did you vote for me because I created a WIFOM? But what about Kevin?

1) I can only vote for one of you.

2) I thought you're more likely to be scum or a dealer from the breadcrumb.

 

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer. But I know I'm not scum, so it's either:

You knowing you're scum can't prove anything to anyone but yourself.

I think, at this moment in time, you're most likely to belong to anti-town faction than anyone else in the game.

 

1) You are a drug dealer putting a lynch trend towards a townie so you will have better chances of winning late game (instead of trying to get mafia killed early on, which in late game you will be killed for by the townies).

No.

 

2) You are mafia pretending to be a drug dealer by posturing as you are certain of your vote so that either a drug dealer or townie gets lynched, thus more chances of winning for you (lynch + NK). You're taking high risks maybe thinking you won't get killed early to ruin your faction's chances since townie will go for the "mafia" kill first before a drug dealer kill.

No again. What makes you think I'm pretend to be / am a drug dealer? Just because I voted for you? Don't like this.

 

You can't be a townie since townies won't put a trend vote early on and with such certainty given the lack of information and basis for suspicions.

A 'trend vote'? Do explain.

I'm not certain you're scum. I think, so far, you're most likely to be. I'm going off everything I have so far, and what you posted came up as most scummy. Why is this so hard to believe?

 

Mere WIFOM cannot be grounds since everyone will be making WIFOM statements to prod discussion and maybe preempt scum actions by reverse psychology.

WIFOM helps no-one but scum by getting us bogged down.

No, everyone will NOT be making reverse psychology posts to try and pre-empt scum. That's stupid, and leads to even more WIFOM.

 

And a townie pretending to be a drug dealer to push mafia into a corner or bait them is too risky since you can be perceived as a genuine drug dealer and will get lynched later on.

Once again, I'm not pretend to be a drug dealer.

 

So concluding that you can't be a townie (except for a very very small chance), my safest bet would be to vote for you.

So, to summarise, your case on me is that you think I'm a drug dealer because I'm voting for you with what I have so far, and not making WIFOM statements?

 

This post seems to be mere OMGUS, and it's persuading me more that my vote was a good idea. I'm not certain, but I'm more sure than I was before.

What makes you say that Kevin?

 

Drug dealers know who the mafia are.

What I meant to say was that if we lynch a drug lord then there is only one drug lord that could want to lynch a townie.

 

Also, if there is one mafia and one drug lord, the drug lord would still want to lynch the mafia.

 

Furthermore, if the one remaining mafia correctly suspects the one remaining drug lord, the mafia would night-kill the drug lord.

 

I'm convinced our best course of action is to lynch a mafia, then lynch a drug lord.

The devil is in the details: who are they?

1st of all I'm on an iPod so typing limited. 2nd wth? Ever heard of random voting? I'm pretty sure you have.

 

Also cd I agree with what narsis said. I can elaborate more tomorrow if u want me 2.

 

From what I can see so far keV looks good

 

Please eloborate.

 

 

PS: Damn forum still giving me that stupid 403 problem.

What I meant to say was that if we lynch a drug lord then there is only one drug lord that could want to lynch a townie.

 

Also, if there is one mafia and one drug lord, the drug lord would still want to lynch the mafia.

 

Furthermore, if the one remaining mafia correctly suspects the one remaining drug lord, the mafia would night-kill the drug lord.

 

I'm convinced our best course of action is to lynch a mafia, then lynch a drug lord.

The devil is in the details: who are they?

 

Ideally we would want to lynch a mafia on D1 and hope mafia NK a drug dealer on N1.

Ughh mole I was expecting more from you honestly. From your post it will seem like a deadlock because I am sure I am townie and you are saying you're not drug dealer/mafia.

 

But let's look at your post.

 

1) I can only vote for one of you.

2) I thought you're more likely to be scum or a dealer from the breadcrumb.

 

Again, what is that bread crumb? Kevin and I both WIFOMed so where is the nuance that is so scumtelling?

 

You knowing you're scum can't prove anything to anyone but yourself.

I think, at this moment in time, you're most likely to belong to anti-town faction than anyone else in the game.

 

Me knowing I'm scum? Ugh no I said I know I'm townie. Did you even read my post or are you purposely trying to mislead me or the others? Why would I likely belong to an anti-town faction? Again, no basis except for a weak argument for a "distracting" WIFOMing, which again, KevinH did more than me.

 

"No" statements

 

It doesn't add much to the discussion, does it?

 

A 'trend vote'? Do explain.

I'm not certain you're scum. I think, so far, you're most likely to be. I'm going off everything I have so far, and what you posted came up as most scummy. Why is this so hard to believe?

 

Hello? Have you been reading? A trend vote because I am someone people can persuade easily to lynch off even if I am a townie because of my "noobishness". A trend vote because your basis is weak and even baseless (WIFOM? Kevin just made more WIFOMs). A trend vote because, ugh, duh, you're trying to make a trend?

 

WIFOM helps no-one but scum by getting us bogged down.

No, everyone will NOT be making reverse psychology posts to try and pre-empt scum. That's stupid, and leads to even more WIFOM.

 

Why would it get us bogged down? Where's the analysis? Furthermore, I didn't say everyone will post WIFOMs to preempt scum, I said everyone will most likely post WIFOMs this early in the game EITHER to initiate discussion or preempt scum. Misrep. =.=

 

Once again, I'm not pretend to be a drug dealer.

 

Your word. Much like your stand against me, no one can prove it except yourself at this point.

 

So, to summarise, your case on me is that you think I'm a drug dealer because I'm voting for you with what I have so far, and not making WIFOM statements?

 

This post seems to be mere OMGUS, and it's persuading me more that my vote was a good idea. I'm not certain, but I'm more sure than I was before.

 

My case on you is that I think you cannot be a townie for sure. I didn't say it was because you are NOT making WIFOM statements (another misrep >.>).

 

I'm more likely sure that you cannot be a townie since no townie will SURELY vote for someone. You said RVS is over, maybe for you. But that would only mean you are CERTAIN with your vote. But at this stage, no one can be certain except for drug dealers, or pretend drug dealers. Townies who have no certain information will NEVER vote for CERTAIN at this early in the game.

 

You just outed yourself mole. An experienced player like you would not hastily vote for someone for SURE. And vote for someone who is an easy picking. I'm more sure than before that you CANNOT be a townie given your actions.

 

If you recant later and said it was all a bluff to try and pressure me and see my reactions, then I don't know what to think but look at you distrustfully.

 

My vote stays because you, dear sir, CANNOT be townie. Hastily CERTAIN, bandwagon, and weakly grounded (maybe even baseless) vote on me smells scum.

 

You've dug yourself a hole. (I just can't resist the pun )

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer.

 

i'm sorry to say it but that doesn't make him a drug dealer. not 100%. the drug dealers could be laying low for all we know. you could be a drug dealer and mole the mafia for all we know. but we don't. thus we must go by what we do know. and what we know is that mole suspects that you placed a breadcrumb. looking at your post myself...it could very well be a breadcrumb. the interesting part...: you never actually voted meaning that if it is a breadcrumb then you are saying your partner is laying the vote. thus either:

 

1. you are a drug dealer and your partner has placed a vote on a mafia and you are trying to draw attention to it.

2. you are townie and that post wasn't a breadcrumb.

3. you are mafia and that post wasn't a breadcrumb.

 

so is it a breadcrumb or not? we will only know when Falzis dies. the interesting point is that if he is a drug dealer then we should be able to easily guess who his partner is out of those who voted in the RVS. if he is mafia...then the likelyhood of mole being a druggie increases. if he is town...well...that would suck.