If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer.

 

i'm sorry to say it but that doesn't make him a drug dealer. not 100%. the drug dealers could be laying low for all we know. you could be a drug dealer and mole the mafia for all we know. but we don't. thus we must go by what we do know. and what we know is that mole suspects that you placed a breadcrumb. looking at your post myself...it could very well be a breadcrumb. the interesting part...: you never actually voted meaning that if it is a breadcrumb then you are saying your partner is laying the vote. thus either:

 

1. you are a drug dealer and your partner has placed a vote on a mafia and you are trying to draw attention to it.

2. you are townie and that post wasn't a breadcrumb.

3. you are mafia and that post wasn't a breadcrumb.

 

so is it a breadcrumb or not? we will only know when Falzis dies. the interesting point is that if he is a drug dealer then we should be able to easily guess who his partner is out of those who voted in the RVS. if he is mafia...then the likelyhood of mole being a druggie increases. if he is town...well...that would suck.

Again, what is that bread crumb? Kevin and I both WIFOMed so where is the nuance that is so scumtelling?

Dropping a hint that you're going to do something / have done something.

For instance, in your case, you could have said the Random voting thing because you HAVE done it, hence you're a drugdealer.

 

Me knowing I'm scum? Ugh no I said I know I'm townie. Did you even read my post or are you purposely trying to mislead me or the others?

Typo. My bad. Calm down.

 

Why would I likely belong to an anti-town faction? Again, no basis except for a weak argument for a "distracting" WIFOMing, which again, KevinH did more than me.

From what I've seen of you, you look the scummiest. My reasons have been outlined.

Your breadcrumbing as well as your WIFOM puts you above KevinH in my books.

 

It doesn't add much to the discussion, does it?

It states my opinion on that case. There's nothing I can say other than no, it's all based on the idea that i'm a dealer. Which I'm not.

 

A trend vote because I am someone people can persuade easily to lynch off even if I am a townie because of my "noobishness".

That certainly isn't the reason I'm voting for you.

 

Hello? Have you been reading?

Please, let's skip any ad hom or incredulous insults and get down to it?

 

A trend vote because your basis is weak and even baseless (WIFOM? Kevin just made more WIFOMs). A trend vote because, ugh, duh, you're trying to make a trend?

You could say everyone was trying to form a trend when they vote - they're trying to get others to vote for the same person, therefore lynch scum, surely?

 

Why would it get us bogged down? Where's the analysis?

It would get us bogged down discussing whether the scum / dealers would bother doing this or that, which is, at this stage of the game, pointless.

 

I said everyone will most likely post WIFOMs this early in the game EITHER to initiate discussion or preempt scum. Misrep. =.=

Same applies. WIFOM gets us nowhere with discussion.

 

Your word. Much like your stand against me, no one can prove it except yourself at this point

Precisely. You can't prove you're pro-town any more than I can.

 

You just outed yourself mole. An experienced player like you would not hastily vote for someone for SURE.

Please quote me where I said I was sure you were scum.

 

And vote for someone who is an easy picking. I'm more sure than before that you CANNOT be a townie given your actions.

I'm not voting for you 'cos you're an easy picking. I'm voting for you because I think you might be scum.

 

My vote stays because you, dear sir, CANNOT be townie. Hastily CERTAIN, bandwagon, and weakly grounded (maybe even baseless) vote on me smells scum.

You vote me for being 'certain' that you're scum (Once again, please quote where I've said that), and yet you're so certain I'm scum. Hypocritical?

This still smells very much of OMGUS.

Which is....

 

 

Please eloborate.

 

 

 

So you want to know why my vote was quasi based off of his last game? Well here goes. It's basically what I've already stated but I'll clarify it one more time so everyone knows my position.

 

1st of all, I typically throw out a random vote to start the game. History will prove me right here. Now since I'm going to vote for someone anyway I may as well take my best stab in the dark. Why Falzis? Last game we played I, as well as several others, thought we had a really good plan that would help the town win. Falzis did not agree with the plan even though it gave us the best chance of winning. He instead chose his own path and the town lost the game. So I figured with my vote on Falzis I have a 57% chance of hitting scum (4/7 since I'm townie) or at the very worst taking out a townie that could make another mistake.

More misreps. I didn't say that he was 100% a drug dealer. Omission of the further paragraphs will make it seem so. But I gave a lot of scenarios of what he could be and couldn't be. For sure, he can't be townie making that vote because his vote wasn't random as he buttressed with his own statement that RVS is over. (refer to previous posts for elaboration on what his nonrandom vote means don't want to type it all again).

 

Again, what is the bread crumb you guys are referring to? Because if it's the one WIFOM statement I made versus the WIFOM statements that Kevin has made, I want to know why the spotlight is on my "breadcrumb".

 

Ugh I just don't get you guys. When KevinH is making hypotheticals and behavioral analysis of mafia / drug actions, it's not WIFOM or breadcrumbing.

 

mole, you are sure on your vote because you said that RVS is over. Which means your vote is deliberate, intentional, and calculated. Means you're sure. And if you're townie and it's just based on WIFOM, again I point to Kevin. I cannot stress enough how there's a double standard. I'm not certain you're scum, I'm just certain you cannot be a townie as of now.

 

Also, if there is one mafia and one drug lord, the drug lord would still want to lynch the mafia.

 

Furthermore, if the one remaining mafia correctly suspects the one remaining drug lord, the mafia would night-kill the drug lord.

 

Isn't this a WIFOM?

Last post before I'm off for the night.

 

Again, what is the bread crumb you guys are referring to? Because if it's the one WIFOM statement I made versus the WIFOM statements that Kevin has made, I want to know why the spotlight is on my "breadcrumb".

THIS POST:

I think the drug dealers have something to ride on with the random voting stage. They can vote "randomly" but in reality are voting for Mafia and hopefully create a trend of votes. So as of now any "random" vote could actually be not random at all. Hopefully this will give us hints as to who are druggies and scummies.

I explained why in my last post:

Dropping a hint that you're going to do something / have done something.

For instance, in your case, you could have said the Random voting thing because you HAVE done it, hence you're a drugdealer.

 

Ugh I just don't get you guys. When KevinH is making hypotheticals and behavioral analysis of mafia / drug actions, it's not WIFOM or breadcrumbing.

Incorrect.

It is. But I find you scummier.

 

mole, you are sure on your vote because you said that RVS is over. Which means your vote is deliberate, intentional, and calculated. Means you're sure.

No, no, no, and more no.

Just because RVS is over doesn't mean I have to be 100% sure in everything I do. Votes can be used to gain reactions, or simply put pressure on someone who you think looks scummy.

 

And if you're townie and it's just based on WIFOM, again I point to Kevin. I cannot stress enough how there's a double standard. I'm not certain you're scum, I'm just certain you cannot be a townie as of now.

Why so certain? How can you be 100% sure?

So you want to know why my vote was quasi based off of his last game? Well here goes. It's basically what I've already stated but I'll clarify it one more time so everyone knows my position.

 

1st of all, I typically throw out a random vote to start the game. History will prove me right here. Now since I'm going to vote for someone anyway I may as well take my best stab in the dark. Why Falzis? Last game we played I, as well as several others, thought we had a really good plan that would help the town win. Falzis did not agree with the plan even though it gave us the best chance of winning. He instead chose his own path and the town lost the game. So I figured with my vote on Falzis I have a 57% chance of hitting scum (4/7 since I'm townie) or at the very worst taking out a townie that could make another mistake.

 

 

I don't agree with this logic.

 

The random vote thing is fine as even I have done it and will continue to do so in future games. What I disagree with is that you are voting him based on poor judgement in a past game rather than his gamestyle/gameplay. Falzis is still pretty new and I'm willing to cut him some slack while he learns the game (same goes for Cur and captain8track). We have a 50% chance of hitting scum not 57% (cuz everyone else will claim townie anyways). Taking out a townie is not an option given that the ratio is 4:2:2. Lynching is the only power the town has and can ill afford to lynch a townie.

Isn't this a WIFOM?

 

I don't mind WIFOM-type analysis, so I won't condemn anyone for it.

 

To answer the question: In this case I would say no, this is not WIFOM.

First, the drug lord will want to lynch the mafia in a subtle way such that suspicion is not arised.

Second, the mafia will night-kill the drug lord without revealing himself.

1st, that WIFOM aka "breadcrumbing" was merely an observation. As in previous games, I like to post the first thing on my head. I'm a very intuitive and spontaneous person. That's why when it comes to strategies and calculation, I leave it to Kevin and the gang.

 

2nd, why do I look scummier based on one WIFOM compared to Kevin's plurality of WIFOM posts? There's no comparative analysis. You're just lumping me without much thought. And townies don't do that.

 

For instance, in your case, you could have said the Random voting thing because you HAVE done it, hence you're a drugdealer.

 

3rd, I haven't voted before voting for you. So how could that be breadcrumbing. Again, you're just reeking of illogical contentions.

 

---

 

Well then, why did you have to mention that RVS is over? When clearly it wasn't we're just on day 1 of Day 1! That was the implication of your "RVS is over" statement. Ugh yeah I understand the pressuring or eliciting reaction thing but your vote coupled with an "RVS is over" looks very very suspicious and points me to untownieness on your part. (reason has been stated in previous posts why he's likely not a townie by voting and saying RVS is over)

 

---

 

Last post too. Hope to read good posts later when I awake (I hope I'm not dead I don't want to die early like Aquinas T_T) Nyt!

More misreps. I didn't say that he was 100% a drug dealer. Omission of the further paragraphs will make it seem so. But I gave a lot of scenarios of what he could be and couldn't be. For sure, he can't be townie making that vote because his vote wasn't random as he buttressed with his own statement that RVS is over.

 

you just contradicted yourself. you said you never said that he was 100% a druggie. yet you say that he 100% can't be town. which leaves him as being either mafia or druggie. however you also say that he voted you for being scum. thus out of those two scenarios he can only be a druggie if he was voting you as scum.

 

the only other option is that he is mafia voting you an that he thinks you are a druggie. thats what i think personally. mole thinks you are a druggie due to the breadcrumb. since you throw that he is town out of the window...he must be mafia since he cant be your partner. however in the post i quoted(quoted again below for reference) you only give two scenarios: 1) that he is a drug dealer or 2) that he is mafia pretending to be a drug dealer.

 

yet neither work for the simple reason that he believes you to be a druggie. if he believes you to be a druggie then he cant be a druggie or be pretending to be a druggie since that's what he's pinning on you.

 

thus the only option is that he is town.

 

tl;dr: go back and read it!

 

So that's what WIFOM is! Lol. Shmancy word for reverse psychology. And my brain just exploded on the section on WIFOM Game Theory. What's breadcrumbs by the way (clues?)?

 

---

 

Did you vote for me because I created a WIFOM? But what about Kevin?

 

If not, then you voted for me because you think I am scum, thus making you a drug dealer. But I know I'm not scum, so it's either:

 

1) You are a drug dealer putting a lynch trend towards a townie so you will have better chances of winning late game (instead of trying to get mafia killed early on, which in late game you will be killed for by the townies).

 

2) You are mafia pretending to be a drug dealer by posturing as you are certain of your vote so that either a drug dealer or townie gets lynched, thus more chances of winning for you (lynch + NK). You're taking high risks maybe thinking you won't get killed early to ruin your faction's chances since townie will go for the "mafia" kill first before a drug dealer kill.

 

You can't be a townie since townies won't put a trend vote early on and with such certainty given the lack of information and basis for suspicions. Mere WIFOM cannot be grounds since everyone will be making WIFOM statements to prod discussion and maybe preempt scum actions by reverse psychology. And a townie pretending to be a drug dealer to push mafia into a corner or bait them is too risky since you can be perceived as a genuine drug dealer and will get lynched later on.

 

So concluding that you can't be a townie (except for a very very small chance), my safest bet would be to vote for you.

 

Vote: molestargazer

EBWOP: in my enthusiasm i forgot to mention that mole could also be mafia, but not mafia pretending to be a druggie.

I'm convinced our best course of action is to lynch a mafia, then lynch a drug lord.

It would be equally acceptable to lynch a drug lord, then lynch a mafia.

 

 

when it comes to strategies and calculation, I leave it to Kevin and the gang.

Thank you for the complement!

captain8track, have you played mafia online before?

 

 

Nope. Getting the hang of it. Thanks for the links everybody.

 

 

 

unvote: curufinwe

 

 

Not random vote, but pretty close to it-

 

Vote: molestargazer

 

Just a hunch so far. Short version: methinks you doth protest too much.

Not exactly iron-clad reasoning. This may be revisited.

I don't agree with this logic.

 

The random vote thing is fine as even I have done it and will continue to do so in future games. What I disagree with is that you are voting him based on poor judgement in a past game rather than his gamestyle/gameplay. Falzis is still pretty new and I'm willing to cut him some slack while he learns the game (same goes for Cur and captain8track). We have a 50% chance of hitting scum not 57% (cuz everyone else will claim townie anyways). Taking out a townie is not an option given that the ratio is 4:2:2. Lynching is the only power the town has and can ill afford to lynch a townie.

 

 

So if I just picked a name out of a hat you would agree?

 

Also I said "I" have a 57% chance that he is scum. If I know I'm a townie then I have a 4 out 7 chance of killing a scum.

 

I'm willing to cut Falzis some slack, heck, I even said I admire his courage to believe in himself and not follow for the sake of following.

 

 

 

captain8track, sorry I said "wth" I thought that you've played before. I've seen your name so many times on the forum that I thought you must be a mafia player. I probably got you mixed up with globalfanatic who's avatars is from the same show as yours. Please excuse the harshness

you just contradicted yourself. you said you never said that he was 100% a druggie. yet you say that he 100% can't be town. which leaves him as being either mafia or druggie. however you also say that he voted you for being scum. thus out of those two scenarios he can only be a druggie if he was voting you as scum.

 

the only other option is that he is mafia voting you an that he thinks you are a druggie. thats what i think personally. mole thinks you are a druggie due to the breadcrumb. since you throw that he is town out of the window...he must be mafia since he cant be your partner. however in the post i quoted(quoted again below for reference) you only give two scenarios: 1) that he is a drug dealer or 2) that he is mafia pretending to be a drug dealer.

 

yet neither work for the simple reason that he believes you to be a druggie. if he believes you to be a druggie then he cant be a druggie or be pretending to be a druggie since that's what he's pinning on you.

 

thus the only option is that he is town.

 

tl;dr: go back and read it!

 

Narsis narsis narsis... my dear narsis. Saying that he can't be a townie 100% is not a contradiction with saying he is not 100% druggie as you have proven in your post. He could be a mafia pretending to be a druggie which I've already stated beforehand. Why do misreps abound in this game?

 

Why can't neither work for the simple reason he believes me to be a druggie?

 

First question is, is his belief that I am a druggie based on a WIFOM, which I've already explained, an unimpeachable belief? Meaning is this something other people should go by? No because only mole can prove to himself what he believes so I don't get why you believe him more than me.

 

Second question is, if he believes I am a druggie, why can't he still be a druggie or a pretend druggie? If he is a druggie, he would want to kill a townie first than a mafia so to have better chances of winning later. If he is a pretend druggie, but is really a mafia, he wants to kill a townie and take the risks of being genuinely perceived as a druggie in the hopes that he will be lynched much later in the game, where his faction will have an upperhand.

 

So how can the only option be that he is town? Because if he was truly townie, it would be an ultimate risk for mole to pretend he is a druggie just to pin a vote on a player he thinks is scum because he will be genuinely perceived as a druggie and he will not be able to change the perception later on and he will die. Townies don't vote for certain at a very early stage of the game. Townies don't risk life and limb for an uncertainty.

 

Aahh but a new question comes up with your staunch advocacy of mole's logic, which I've already torn asunder along with yours. Why are you singing in unison with mole? Usually I would think you would give me some slack based on a weak WIFOM, which I've done in previous games because I post intuitively my observations spontaneously, but it seems you are concertedly pushing for my demise.

 

So it's either you are a townie who doesn't believe in me more than mole and are willing to take the risk that I am a townie who will die, since I have "more" propensity to throw the game OR you are mole's partner, whether a druggie or mafia, and pushing for the same agenda as a mole, OR you could be not mole's partner, but you are still scum, and wants to jump along killing an easy picking like me to lessen one townie (or "drug dealer" if you are mafia).

 

Have you just revealed your alignment Narsis?

The whole exchange between Narsis and Falzis makes my head spin such that I'm not going to really try to understand it.

 

However, I think the following logic is wrong.

 

If he is a druggie, he would want to kill a townie first than a mafia so to have better chances of winning later.

 

No, a druggie would want the mafia dead so he could get the power to night kill.

Is this a deliberate attempt to mislead?

Nope it's just more of my alleged "WIFOMs" (previously posted but for sake of clarification I'll repeat it). I know druggie would want to take out Mafia immediately but leave them open to lynch later in a disadvantaged position (since townie would have deduced by then who the druggies were "breadcrumbing" to lynch thus making them druggies once the mafia were dead).

 

So knowing that we know, they might change strategies and opt for a townie kill on Day 1 so as not to out themselves as druggies very early on (and also protect them from mafia NK).

 

mole will scream "more WIFOM = scum" after this I bet lol.

The whole exchange between Narsis and Falzis makes my head spin such that I'm not going to really try to understand it.

 

 

I second this for the record.

Not random vote, but pretty close to it-

 

Vote: molestargazer

 

Just a hunch so far. Short version: methinks you doth protest too much.

Not exactly iron-clad reasoning. This may be revisited.

I protest too much when he was the first to protest my vote on him, and has continued to do so, constantly calling me scum?

I don't think so.

Best of luck in your first game, anyway!

 

I'm willing to cut Falzis some slack, heck, I even said I admire his courage to believe in himself and not follow for the sake of following.

Whilst i'm not willing to cut slack, I will say he certainly isn't playing like the new player he proclaims himself to be.

 

Before I go back and go through what Falzis has said.. by god, you seem to be pushing hard.

I say it's fair to protest a vote if it's not random omgforthelulz. I'm not a new "new" player per se but I am a new player relative to you guys. I'm maturing or growing into this game. And I'm articulate... and have lots of time... and take games seriously. So you will see me playing hard and to the best of my current abilities.

 

If I may brag, I'm relatively new in CN but I was well prepared for this war with nukes, wonders and a good warchest to boot. I learn quickly and try to be better asap. Ok I'm talking too much again.

So if I just picked a name out of a hat you would agree?

 

Also I said "I" have a 57% chance that he is scum. If I know I'm a townie then I have a 4 out 7 chance of killing a scum.

 

I'm willing to cut Falzis some slack, heck, I even said I admire his courage to believe in himself and not follow for the sake of following.

 

 

 

captain8track, sorry I said "wth" I thought that you've played before. I've seen your name so many times on the forum that I thought you must be a mafia player. I probably got you mixed up with globalfanatic who's avatars is from the same show as yours. Please excuse the harshness

 

I'd be OK if it was just a RVS.

 

But you said the following...

As for my initial vote, it's going to Falzis. He didn't follow the plan last game and the town lost. Since everyone has an equal chance of being scum I might as well vote for the person that has a higher chance of throwing a wrench in the town's plans.

 

To answer Mole's question, my vote on Falzis was a random vote but based off of something I seen from him in his last game(s).

 

You gave basis for your vote...hardly a random vote...but whatever.

ok so let's see...

 

mole could not be pretending to be a druggie because he thinks you are a druggie. although he never actually said it himself, the only faction in this game that would drop the perceived breadcrumb of yours is a druggie. so yes you are right that in my enthusiasm my logic slipped slightly in that mole could very well be a druggie, however he still cannot be a mafia pretending to be a druggie, a druggie pretending to be a druggie, or a townie pretending to be a druggie. why? simply because he is saying you are a druggie. now if he was pretending to be a druggie...what would be the point of using that argument since it would appear he's trying to kill his partner. if he was indeed a druggie, he'd be better off trying to pin you as mafia alone, of which there was little at the time.

 

so the point is...mole cannot be pretending to be a druggie since he claims that you are a druggie(indirectly). however he could very well be any of the factions.

EBWOP: I must applaud your deductive reasoning though Falzis. you are definitely getting better at this game...and it would seem very quickly.

1st, that WIFOM aka "breadcrumbing" was merely an observation. As in previous games, I like to post the first thing on my head. I'm a very intuitive and spontaneous person. That's why when it comes to strategies and calculation, I leave it to Kevin and the gang.

WIFOM doesn't equal breadcrumbing. Two different things from the same post, hence why I voted you over KevinH.

 

Falzis, you seem to be placing a lot of emphasis and protesting on this vote which was, after all, not an attempt to get you lynched right now, but a first vote.

 

3rd, I haven't voted before voting for you. So how could that be breadcrumbing. Again, you're just reeking of illogical contentions.

Didn't know that. But same applies, could be for a partner.

 

Well then, why did you have to mention that RVS is over? When clearly it wasn't we're just on day 1 of Day 1

I said that to hopefully stop any further random votes. I want to get on with the game, as we clearly are doing now.

 

Ugh yeah I understand the pressuring or eliciting reaction thing but your vote coupled with an "RVS is over" looks very very suspicious and points me to untownieness on your part.

Uhh.. why?

Saying RVS is over has NOTHING to do with how sure I am of your scuminess.

 

EVERYONE - I'd love you to read over the whole Falzis/Me debate and give your opinions. It could really help sort this out. Take some time out, it's not that difficult to follow.

 

First question is, is his belief that I am a druggie based on a WIFOM, which I've already explained, an unimpeachable belief?

I've already stated several times. I am not SURE.

 

Second question is, if he believes I am a druggie, why can't he still be a druggie or a pretend druggie?

If I were a druggie, it would be incredibly stupid to try and out my partner with such vigour.

 

So how can the only option be that he is town? Because if he was truly townie, it would be an ultimate risk for mole to pretend he is a druggie just to pin a vote on a player he thinks is scum because he will be genuinely perceived as a druggie and he will not be able to change the perception later on and he will die.

I'm getting a little lost here. Why am I pretending to be a druggie?

 

Aahh but a new question comes up with your staunch advocacy of mole's logic, which I've already torn asunder along with yours.

And I'm tearing yours back, yet this wasn't acknowledged.

 

So knowing that we know, they might change strategies and opt for a townie kill on Day 1 so as not to out themselves as druggies very early on (and also protect them from mafia NK).

WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM. Yeah, you're right.

This helps NO-ONE. We don't know what the scum / druggies will do. You can't say you're right, you might not be. We need to find scum. And I'm increasingly believing I've found one. (Scum = Member of an anti-town faction in this context)

 

The fact you're shouting my scumminess from the mountaintops, all this stemming from a vote on you by me, simply screams of OMGUS.

Alright but the question is why do you believe him when he says I am a druggie? Because of the weak WIFOM? And if I WERE a druggie, why did I give the WIFOM before I made a vote? So where was the breadcrumbing?

 

He could still be a druggie pretending to be a druggie because you CANNOT be sure I am a druggie until I am dead so you can't buy hook, line, and sinker mole's stance that I am a druggie. You're cutting mole too much slack Narsis. The logical holes abound in his and your statements. I thought you were more critical than that... unless you're in cahoots with him.

an interesting thing i just noticed: Falzis keeps pointing to mole being a druggie or pretending to be a druggie. imo he's more likely to be mafia then druggie at this point. so why keep saying he is a druggie or pretending to be a druggie? maybe Falzis is mafia? although the information would point to him being a druggie otherwise so it might be totally off...i'm just throwing it out there but it is something odd.