207 replies to this topic

[Lysistrata]

That's why we have a judge, a jury, and degrees of the crime committed. They are charged with determining a verdict and coming up with right punishment for the crime. If a man kills a man because he raped his daughter, the jury can decide they would have done the same thing and go light on the guy... but if you start implanting human emotion into the law itself to force higher punishment, you will soon get a black man who kills a white man for the $372.00 he had in his pocket, but the black guy gets set free because the dude he killed was an obvious racist from posts on his Facebook. It's not a crime to be a hateful person.

[Third King]

 

 

That's why I don't believe in "Hate Crime"... it's trying to punish people for feeling.

 

And here I thought "hate crime" was designed to additionally punish those who inflict harm on people on the basis of prejudice. 

 

You punish the crime... not the reason. Everyone is equal under the law. When you start treating people different because of the way they feel about other people, we will end up in a world of shit, because it always cuts both ways and then pretty soon no one is accountable for anything because everyone can make a case that they are hated for something. If we are ever going to rid ourselves of racism, or gayism, or blondism, or any other hate-ism you can think of... we have to begin with prohibiting the "ism" excuses for everything. Man kills a man... man gets punished under the law. It doesn't matter that the black man hated the white dude, or who the dude was having sex with. You're just complicating the obvious.

 

 

Prejudice has nothing to do with emotions and everything to do with actions. I don't care if Bob hates Sally because she is Jewish, but if he punches her in the face soley because she is Jewish then I take issue with it, and am glad the "hate crime" designation exists.

 

A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.

 

Source: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes/overview

[onbekende]

they are "additions", they can sway the final count 1 way or the other but they don't mark the verdict of "murder" itself.

[Lysistrata]

"Prejudice has nothing to do with emotions and everything to do with actions. I don't care if Bob hates Sally because she is Jewish, but if he punches her in the face soley because she is Jewish then I take issue with it, and am glad the "hate crime" designation exists."

 

And Bob would be charged with assault and could be sued in civil court for damages. Why is it more a crme to punch Sally because she's a Jew and less of a crime if Sally is Bob's wife? Also it doesn't give Sally license to rub her Jewishness in Bob's face. You're going down a slippery slope.

[onbekende]

 

And Bob would be charged with assault and could be sued in civil court for damages. Why is it more a crme to punch Sally because she's a Jew and less of a crime if Sally is Bob's wife? Also it doesn't give Sally license to rub her Jewishness in Bob's face. You're going down a slippery slope.

 

well, now who's not going for freedom of speech? >_>

[DeathMerchant]

I should mention that free speech can turn into harassment based on behavior and actions.

[Bull of Doom22]

Elizabeth Warren seems to be trying to get to the left of Hillary like Obama did in 2008, but neither seem to have a good chance in a general election given Hillary's unavailability ratings near 50% and Warren's far leftist views. The GOP seems to have the best shot at a president in 2016. Scott Walker, Rand Paul, and Jeb Busch are looking pretty good, however Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz might be able to pull over Hispanic voters who tend to lean left (except for Cubans, who Generally vote Republican. So I suppose if we go by nationality neither has that advantage)

[Smurthwaite]

Elizabeth Warren seems to be trying to get to the left of Hillary like Obama did in 2008, but neither seem to have a good chance in a general election given Hillary's unavailability ratings near 50% and Warren's far leftist views. The GOP seems to have the best shot at a president in 2016. Scott Walker, Rand Paul, and Jeb Busch are looking pretty good, however Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz might be able to pull over Hispanic voters who tend to lean left (except for Cubans, who Generally vote Republican. So I suppose if we go by nationality neither has that advantage)

 

Define Hispanic.

[onbekende]

depending on the GOP candidate: someone crawling over the border.

[Lysistrata]

depending on the GOP candidate: someone crawling over the border.

You're just a barrel of laughs. It must be nice to be able to sit in Belgium and throw shit on millions of people you don't even know, but I guess it's how you deal with your own insignificance. The Republicans are strongly against illegal immigration. This has become a huge problem from decades of leadership unwilling to confront the issue. Currently it's easier to break the law and "crawl over the border" than to follow the law and become a welcome guest. This is what Republicans want. How did you handle the 15 million people that just came into Belgium without notice? Oh yeah... never happened... since your whole country is roughly the size of New York City.

[Lysistrata]

Following up on something I talked about a couple days ago... Harry Enten over at 538 wrote a piece about the Republican debates. It looks like they will allow the top 10 in polling on the stage. What I find most funny is his "I refuse to include Donald Trump" line... no matter what your opinion is of Trump, he would be an outstanding President and probably what we need most. The problem is no one believes he is serious about running, and he has an attitude... not good for anyone seeking an elected position.

 

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-gop-candidates-most-likely-to-be-left-out-of-the-debates/

[onbekende]

 

depending on the GOP candidate: someone crawling over the border.

You're just a barrel of laughs.

 

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I try, it keeps myself from going full cynical and that is always a sign of going to far
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It must be nice to be able to sit in Belgium and throw shit on millions of people you don't even know, but I guess it's how you deal with your own insignificance.

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Ooow yes, how sad that your LARGE nation has to hold so many asylum (any reasons given for it) while our SMALL nation is probably so insignificant, nobody even knows where we are.

no wait, let me stop you right there in your round of "a barrel of laughs" and let me point you to some facts.
 
Let me get the UNHCR involved, they like to keep statistics (like any good bureaucratic organisation does) about these kind of things, I shall take the first google link I got with numbers of 2010.
 
Go to page 14 (page 20-21 has the raw data), look at the top left. Oooow, USA seems to level at ~50.000 asylum seekers each year, offcourse these are the "new people", on page 21 we see that the USA has about 270k in total.
 
But whats this, on that page 14 graph, there is a Belgium We are in the top 10! W00TLES!! No wait...
Howmany are that, seeing the graph ~20k, following page 20 statistics roughly 37k in total.
 
Now, we have about 1/7th your amount of refugees/asylum seekers, but we are like 1/28th your population, quick math tells me thats 4X your amount in relative terms Dear lord where are we stocking all these asylum seekers that are clearly greater in numbers than the USA, while the USA has so much issues that even a common republican voter can't go outside without tripping over some illegal mexican.
 
Now I know what you are going to say: "these are the registered ones!", yeah grats, and you think we don't have unregistered ones? perhaps our nation is to small for them even to hide in
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The Republicans are strongly against illegal immigration.

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Grats, last I heared in general ANY political party is against illegal things.
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This has become a huge problem from decades of leadership unwilling to confront the issue.

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Decades means also republicans, hence me being somewhat cynical
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Currently it's easier to break the law and "crawl over the border" than to follow the law and become a welcome guest.

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Well, grats to finding out what it is to life in a Western World being postered as "the place to be".
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How did you handle the 15 million people that just came into Belgium without notice?

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Seeing as we got about 25% people of "immigrant nature", I think we are doing fine in that catagory. Your 15M is a measely 5% grats??
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Oh yeah... never happened... since your whole country is roughly the size of New York City.

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Depending what you want to compare, we are almost half the pop of NYC at roughly the same size. All metropolitan measurements offcourse.
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[Lysistrata]

Looks like I win the bet. I was wondering if I could get you to post something more than a few words. I've been dealing with liberal bomb throwers all my life. Every American living today can trace their family back to somewhere else. It's not even possible for us to be against immigration... so it's closer to 100%. It does not make us racist because we want our laws enforced, which was your implication. We have two political parties that have great contrast... not three political parties that are just three different degrees of socialism. We can take care of ourselves just fine.

[onbekende]

what you won from whom? Alot of people try to bait me into 5+ words

 

calling me a "liberal bomb thrower"? do please explain what that even mans (regardless if I am "it" or not)

 

never said you were racist, everyone has some form of "family first" principle, its nature.

 

your 2 political parties contrast great, on the 50% political scale the rest of the world uses. But you guys are "widening" the devide between the 2, which is something of an evolution I guess. I also understand that the system works for the USA, same as I get that alot of Russians like Putin for reasons others may only describe as "look, fancy torso man riding on horseback!"

 

atleast you didn't call it "communism", its funny when europe gets called communist

[Lysistrata]

A liberal bomb thrower is what happens in an exchange of opinions and ideas that suddenly takes the conversation completely off the rails. It typically will create a false determination on a personal level to insult someone because they can't win the arguement. Conservatives are treated like garbage because they strongly support things like balanced budgets. In a liberal mind, things like fiscal responsibilty work against their main goal of taking as much money as they possibly can from people who earn it and giving it to everyone else that will not earn it. I took this comment from a liberal bomb thrower off a left leaning news site during a debate about the Supreme Court's upcoming ruling on Obamacare subsidies as an example...

 

I am a White Conservative Christian
I love Jesus and God.
I hate Black People
I hate Hispanic People
I hate Muslim People
I hate Poor People
I hate Gay People.
I especially hate the Black POTUS
I hate hate hate
But I am very tolerant

 

As you can see this person just wants to take the position of the poster, define who he is, and declare that because he is against Obamacare, and any form of government controlled heathcare, that he is this hateful person he has described. It's not true.

 

Republicans are the engine that runs the USA. When Americans are in trouble... when they call anyone for help... Police, Fire, Food, Housing, Energy, Loans, Jobs, War, or to pay the tax revenue to support it all... they call Republicans to do the heavy lifting, and we're treated like shit for it. Think what would happen if we all said "fuck it" and just let it all go for a while? Read Atlas Shrugged.

[onbekende]

Republicans is the home of the patriots. No question. But you can't run a country on patriotism alone anymore, cause globalism.

 

And who is know character defining the democrats as money grabbing, unpatriotic woosies?

[Lysistrata]

Republicans is the home of the patriots. No question. But you can't run a country on patriotism alone anymore, cause globalism.

 

And who is know character defining the democrats as money grabbing, unpatriotic woosies?

Point accepted with respect Sir.

[onbekende]

woot points!

 

you will find me to be mostly making snarky 1 line comments. truely caring for something hasn't happended, yet.

[Shahenshah]

"but is local money ok to do foriegn bidding?"... I'm not really understanding this question, I can't give an opinion if I don't know your meaning. What the American people do with their money is their business. I'm a Libertarian and believe everyone should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. "Hurt" means actual damages, such as losing cash, position, property, or personal injury... hurt "feelings" are bullshit and get into the realm of "political correctness", which is the work of insane liberalism that wants to control society by making specific human emotion a crime. That's why I don't believe in "Hate Crime"... it's trying to punish people for feeling. This is getting off the rails of money influence but it's my way of saying I don't really care.

I'm with you all the way regarding the political correctness etc.

By hurt I mean people loosing money or getting in the way of harm (soldiers/civilians) due to some policy influenced by xyz local or foreign lobby money.

[Lysistrata]

Hillary has some real compitition now. Martin O'Malley just announced, and watching his speech had to wake up all the lefties that have been living under that huge Clinton novocaine shot. We'll see how serious he is... if and when he attacks her on lies, corruption, lies, Benghazi, lies, bribery, lies, her lying husband, everything she has never accomplished, her lies, and all that dirty money and lies... but she'll probably just duck and claim that it's sniper fire.