346 replies to this topic

[Icewolf]

Hi Ice... it's nice to have the forum back. I think you, and far too many other people, dissect and criticize what Trump says so much that you miss the point entirely. You have no "semblance of an understanding" that he is a CEO, a boss, a leader... it's his job to get things done, identify problems, and to direct people on his team to achieve goals and complete missions. He tells them what he wants done, and it's their job to get it done and worry about the details.

 

He says he wants to shut down the internet from terrorists... and you guys lose your minds over how he would do that. He says he wants to keep Muslims from entering the US until we get things figured out... and heads explode all over place, screaming about policy. It's not what he says that is wrong.... it's the man who is saying it you don't like. I really like that he has his finger on the pulse of the people, he knows what needs to be done, and he not afraid to say it.

 

This is so funny... it's about 5 minutes, but you have to see the last 2... 

Yes Trump has been a CEO. However government is not a business, it is not run like a business, and most importantly, you do not want it to be run like a business. 

 

The Primary purpose of a business is to make money for its investors. The Primary purpose of a government is to serve its citizens. Those are two very different activities that have to be approached in different ways. 

 

For the internet thing, it wasn't just the fact he said he wanted to shut it down (which is a nice violation of the 1st Amendment anyway). It was the fact he said he would go and ask his friend Bill Gates to do it that got him mocked. It demonstrated that he has absolutely no idea how the internet works, how it is governed, and who you actually need to talk to. That's before you get into the technical detail that you actually cannot shut down parts of the internet because it is modeled on the old US APRANET system that was designed to withstand a nuclear war. One bumbling twit with stupid hair doesn't come close. I mean fine you want to stop terrorists communicating, but do you not think it would be the sensible thing to spend half an hour with a technical adviser to determine how that might be done, or if that is even possible? 

 

As for the ban all Muslim's policy, again this was an ill thought out concept with no substance and no attempt made to produce anything resembling policy. I was listening to an interview with his spokeswoman 2 or 3 days after he announced it (meaning she had time to be properly briefed) and she could not answer basic fundamental questions of; 

-Would a British citizen who happened to be Muslim be declined a visa?

-How do you determine who is a Muslim?

-Would it apply to US citizens currently outside of the US? 

 

Again, this is the type of thing which can be resolved if you have taken the time and created the culture within your team of actually taking advice and following up details. And time and again this shows that Trump has no interest in actually running a government because he isn't taking any of the actions you would expect of a person who actually wanted to try and implement these polices. 

 

This is on top of the fact that he is fine with his supporters (and cheers them on) attacking demonstrators, has no respect for free speech, freedom of religion, the rights of the disabled, is blatantly sexist and has a total disregard for anything that normally qualifies someone as a decent human being. 

[Lysistrata]

The Primary purpose of a business is to make money for its investors.

I'm really surprised to see you say this. Most of you guys believe the primary purpose of a business is to employ people.

 

Once again, you complicate the obvious. If Donald Trump wants to keep radical Islamic terrorists from coming into the US, he will start from the most extreme position possible and negotiate his way to his best possible position. Trump will drop names, like that of Gates, to brag about the people he knows... you guys want to pick around the details. Knock yourselves out. You can't hurt this man. Not this time. He's not ashamed or embarrassed with his success like Romney was. You are not gonna take his words and twist them into something they are not... like that "binders full of women" bullshit.

 

Trump is doing so well because the Democrats hate him, and the Republican establishment hates him. People like him because he's not a politician, he's not politically correct, he does not pander, he cannot be bought, and he's a star. We are not looking for the "perfect" President... we are looking for an effective President, and Donald would be effective.

 

We are treading on a new path, and it scares me to death, because the only way the US loses to Hillary Clinton is to nominate someone that is unelectable. Trump loves to exaggerate... Hillary is a bald faced liar. I'll take the exaggerator.

 

Like I said before... I'm a Rubio/Cruz guy, but I really like what Trump is doing, and one thing is for certain... I have a vote.

[Icewolf]

See this is a point where you are definitely off the mark.

Trump is not doing well. His apparent success is not a mark of talent buf of the weaknesses of the Republican feild. A feild so week that Clinton who ought to be struggling is currently walking the election.

[onbekende]

Politicians don't negotiate, they compromise. There is a difference.

[Lysistrata]

We are treading on a new path, and it scares me to death, because the only way the US loses to Hillary Clinton is to nominate someone that is unelectable.

Where am I definitely off the mark? No one cares about Hillary Clinton right now. The only thing she is walking is her nomination. That is the weakness of their field. They don't have one. They are stuck with a old lying bag of gas and we have a choice, and all eyes are on Republicans. After that choice is made, then all guns will be pointed at her, and the only things Hillary does well is lie and spend other people's money.

 

Trump is a risky choice because there is no way to tell how he will do on an electoral map. Calling him names will not beat him, which is the Alinsky/Democrat way of doing things... this time it only makes him stronger. I will never underestimate the stupidity of the American voter, and an electorate that puts Obama in there twice is not too smart, but I do what I can to help.

[Icewolf]

Trump is consistently getting thrashed in head to head polls. And the closer it gets to the election and the more attention people pay, the more he will be hurt by the fact he doesn't actually have any policy.

[onbekende]

 

The Primary purpose of a business is to make money for its investors.

I'm really surprised to see you say this. Most of you guys believe the primary purpose of a business is to employ people.

 

 

Well society would like the "for employment", but we know humans go for "for the money".

 

Hence you got taxes, to mold the money into society

 

 

Where am I definitely off the mark? No one cares about Hillary Clinton right now. The only thing she is walking is her nomination. 

 

Thats the thing, her nomination is basically a done deal, its more "fun" to report about the Republican shout-o-contest then something everyone already knows.

 

Same way sensational news of disasters comes in waves, a disaster has a not-so-common cause and suddenly the next 5 likewise disasters (but with the more usual causes) come into the news 24/7.

[Icewolf]

 

 

The Primary purpose of a business is to make money for its investors.

I'm really surprised to see you say this. Most of you guys believe the primary purpose of a business is to employ people.

 

 

Well society would like the "for employment", but we know humans go for "for the money".

 

Hence you got taxes, to mold the money into society

 

I am a law graduate. In English law it is explicitly written that Directors of Limited Companies first duty is to their shareholders. Or in other words, to make money.

 

In other European Countries there is a more social responsibility model. For example in France companies have to share their profit (through a complicated and tortured calculation) with their employees. And there are other business models, for example co-operatives and partnerships that have more focus on their employees. However these are somewhat rare.

[Lysistrata]

Trump is consistently getting thrashed in head to head polls. And the closer it gets to the election and the more attention people pay, the more he will be hurt by the fact he doesn't actually have any policy.

Head to head polls don't mean squat right now. Sanders people are not supporting Clinton, Carson people are not supporting Cruz, Rubio people are not supporting Trump, and Bush people are not supporting Christie. Everything changes next summer.

 

We are 11 months away from an election, and the lines will be drawn when we have a nominee. The only red herring is if Trump wins the nomination. That will be very interesting, because it will be an election on who is hated the most. I believe the hatred for Donald Trump will be concentrated in states that he will already lose. It will make states like California, Vermont, Washington, New York, and Massachusetts... more blue. The real test will be if he can pull together enough Independents, women, blacks, and young voters to win states like Florida, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, Nevada, New Hampshire, and Colorado. You don't seem to understand how universally unpopular Hillary Clinton is... we just need her to stop hiding and start talking... she can't stop herself from being repulsive, it's ingrained into her basic presence.

[Icewolf]

Given Trump has insulted just about every minority group in the US, do you really think that a coalition of independents, women and blacks to support him is likely?

[Lysistrata]

Given Trump has insulted just about every minority group in the US, do you really think that a coalition of independents, women and blacks to support him is likely?

If insulting someone is the problem, then illegals and Muslims won't support Trump. Illegals can't vote and Muslims are too few to even matter. Hillary Clinton has "insulted" about 60% of the entire population with her dishonesty. The other 40% are Progressives that don't care, and actually support dishonesty as a means of gaining power over, and stealing from other people. That's the one thing Trump would do as President that no one else has been able to accomplish, and that is to weed out, expose, and destroy corruption in the US Government.

[Icewolf]

If dishonesty indults people, then Trump has insulted far more people.

[Shahenshah]

The Republicans did their homework after last elections and realised they cannot win a general election without minorities. So basically that was what they were doing, Jeb was treading the line, Latino wife, can speak the language etc, you had Carson from minority group, Rubio and Cruz were from immigrant families, so they had taken the lessons to the heart and realised Romney lost partially because he was pushed too much to the right to cater to a vocal and significant Republican far right.

Then comes along Trump, throws the lessons Republicans learned out of the window, pushes the entire field to the right. Carson imploded, Bush did nothing, Cruz is a more savvy version of Trump in disguise and will be shutting down govt every quarter if congress doesnt bend over. So, more or less the most sane amongst the clown bus with any chance left is Rubio. In hindsight, I recall many of the Republican leaning members here had him marked as priority. So, that's good to know.

The Republican brand has been damaged by Trump. All that damage will be more visible once the fight moves on to Democratic candidate vs Republican candidate. Republicans can keep shouting that the law was violated by Hillary, if so, then prosecute her. In the last Hillary hearing, she came out and smacked the the GOP and another GOP plot fell flat on its face.

Republicans need to cull the herd, you got too many people, I believe they'll all be in the race (if money allows) until the initial primaries. Then you'll have more substantive debates. Trump still has time to build policy behind his rhetoric. I do believe he is smart enough (Eq + iq, unlike say Carson, seems good in IQ, low on EQ relatively) to pull up the sleeves and get into policy discussions, he doesn't have to be say as good as Rubio, but just enough to convince his base that he isn't just hot air, the policy can be shitty, but he just needs to remove any doubts his followers may have once the field is smaller and more deeper discussions occur.

Hopefully he'll run for the President and cause a defeat for Republicans by pushing all the minority and much of independent vote to Democrats.

Edited by Shahenshah, 21 December 2015 - 07:29 AM.

[Lysistrata]

Lindsey Graham dropped out this morning. It means nothing, he had 1% support. It does make it harder to keep two debates going and may help force the hand to trim down the field. Lindsey had no chance, and he never had a chance. His only fan is John McCain... and maybe Lindsey Lohan for obvious reasons.

 

If you guys are waiting for Trump to lay out policy, don't hold your breath. He's not running on policy, he's running on emotion. The last guy to do that was... Barack Obama. He hasn't pushed anything to the right. He's not a Conservative. He's not a Liberal. He's all over the map on his positions. He's running as a Republican, but he's in favor of progressive income taxes and "saving" Social Security. His wife is from Yugoslavia... that place would be hard to find on a map now... but she's an immigrant too. You guys just don't like the guy.

[onbekende]

Trump is just running on emotion, thats the issue. You can just as easely elect a 3y old who throws a tantrum every 5d cause his teddy wasn't steamed properly.

 

For all the "anti-establishment" rethoric some folks like to shout, the "establishment" was formed just cause its what forms behind the scenes of any profession. All those shouters (Trump included) would for example throw out everyone from a factory only to discover that just reading the instruction manuel gets you nowhere.

 

Fine you don't like Hillary, and by extention perhaps the Democrats in general, but going for a protest-vote is just asking for going of the deep end. Would Hillary have personally got you fired? Would Trump have? Asking the question is answering it.

[Lysistrata]

Trump is just running on emotion, thats the issue. You can just as easely elect a 3y old who throws a tantrum every 5d cause his teddy wasn't steamed properly.

 

For all the "anti-establishment" rethoric some folks like to shout, the "establishment" was formed just cause its what forms behind the scenes of any profession. All those shouters (Trump included) would for example throw out everyone from a factory only to discover that just reading the instruction manuel gets you nowhere.

 

Fine you don't like Hillary, and by extention perhaps the Democrats in general, but going for a protest-vote is just asking for going of the deep end. Would Hillary have personally got you fired? Would Trump have? Asking the question is answering it.

You're in a European Socialist bubble, and you know nothing Jon Snow.

 

Democrats always run on emotion. It's always about race, gender, wealth, animals, environment, or promising to give you what you haven't got that somebody else has. Keep watching... Hillary will cry at the drop of a hat if she gets in trouble. This is why Democrats are so afraid of Donald Trump. They don't know how to run a campaign against someone they can't smear, shame, or isolate into failure. He can actually say the truth about Hillary Clinton and it's exactly what everyone expects him to do.

 

I'm self employed... no one can fire me.

[Shahenshah]

I believe Democrats just can't wait for Trump to be nominated.

I am also making "Told you so Bro" post for future self quotation and patting myself on the back for knowledge on intricacies of American politics. I'll bathe myself in the narcissistic glimmer.

[Shahenshah]

Edit* Bask in my narcissistic glory.

Forgot the more appropriate words, English being secondary language.

[Lysistrata]

I don't know what will happen Shah. I can only express my thoughts and opinions and hope for the best.

[Lysistrata]

Okay, Fox Business Network is my hero.

 

They just released the requirements to make the main stage for the debate held on January 14. It will be the top 6... so if things remain the same, it will be Trump, Cruz, Rubio, Carson, Bush and Christie.

 

Fiorina, Kasich, and Paul will be invited to the under-card debate... AKA, the kids table debate.

 

Now it will get interesting... I can already hear Trump teasing Bush for being on the end.

 

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/12/22/fox-business-network-announces-entry-criteria-for-gop-primary-debates-on-jan-14/?intcmp=marketfeatures